Max step to load?

[AbitNutz]

Can anyone think of a cartridge rifle that takes more steps to shoot than the Lyman 1878-Pedersoli-Sharps I have?

1) Move hammer to half-cock
2) Drop lever, lowering breech block
3) Load cartridge
4) Close lever, raising breech block
5) Move hammer to full-cock
6) Pull the rear trigger and setting the front trigger
7) Touch front trigger, firing the rifle

[montana_charlie]

It's a falling block single shot.
The Spencer carbine was a repeater, but it took almost as many actions to chamber a round and fire it.

But seriously ... you can forego that step of bringing the lock to half cock before dropping the block.
Closely watch the hammer from the side (while in the fired condition) as you start the lever down.
The hammer does not move forward. So, it does not keep pressure on the firing pin.
Instead, the firing pin mechanism begins immediaely to move to the rear, freeing the firing pin tip from the primer in the chamber.

Been shooting my Pedersoli sharps for ten years with no 'broken pin'.

[Mk42gunner]

A muzzle loaded breech loader comes to mind, also a breech seated bullet with separate case.

Or look at it this way-- If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

Robert

[williamwaco]

Can anyone think of a cartridge rifle that takes more steps to shoot than the Lyman 1878-Pedersoli-Sharps I have?

1) Move hammer to half-cock
2) Drop lever, lowering breech block
3) Load cartridge
4) Close lever, raising breech block
5) Move hammer to full-cock
6) Pull the rear trigger and setting the front trigger
7) Touch front trigger, firing the rifle

You missed a step.

[AbitNutz]

Ok, I'll bite...what step is missing?

[pls1911]

Your steps are fine... but you might want to add "aim"....

I abbreviate the process a bit with the assumption the shooter is a little experienced :

Half Cock - Load - Full cock - Fire

[AbitNutz]

So the rifle in question is my Lyman 1878 which has been re-chambered to 450 Nitro Express. The saying "One end will kill you; the other end will cripple you" is so, so true. Aiming? haven't actually tried aiming it yet. Setting the trigger is fairly traumatic let alone shooting it.

[williamwaco]

AIM - Carefully!

[Mk42gunner]

So the rifle in question is my Lyman 1878 which has been re-chambered to 450 Nitro Express. The saying "One end will kill you; the other end will cripple you" is so, so true. Aiming? haven't actually tried aiming it yet. Setting the trigger is fairly traumatic let alone shooting it.
Actually, there are a few more possible steps for rifles such as yours-- Right after the aim carefully step, you insert "squeeze eyes shut" and "yank the trigger, hard":kidding:.

As an option, these can be followed by dropping the rifle (on rocks for extra points) and or colorful language you don't want your mother to know you know.

Seriously, This post was meant to be in jest.

Robert

[rfd]

i like rolling blocks better than falling blocks ...

pull hammer to full cock,
pull back breech,
insert cartridge,
close breech,
aim,
pull set trigger,
squeeze fire trigger. :)

[John Boy]

1) Move hammer to half-cock
2) Drop lever, lowering breech block
3) Load cartridge
4) Close lever, raising breech block
5) Move hammer to full-cock
5.a. Put level bubble in the middle
5.b. Take a deep breathe from the diaphram
5.c. Pull butt stock tight to shoulder
6) Pull the rear trigger and setting the front trigger
6.a. Aim
6.b. Exhale breathe slowly
7) Touch front trigger, firing the rifle

[rfd]

there could be many more 'checks' such as where to rest the rifle/barrel on the x-sticks, where to orient the cartridge rim in the chamber, what to do with yer non-trigger hand, body posture, and can you really trust yer spotter? :veryconfu :bigsmyl2:

[45-70 Chevroner]

[QUOTE=AbitNutz;3444612]So the rifle in question is my Lyman 1878 which has been re-chambered to 450 Nitro Express. The saying "One end will kill you; the other end will cripple you" is so, so true. Aiming? haven't actually tried aiming it yet. Setting the trigger is fairly traumatic let alone shooting it.[/QUOTE
That must be a real safe rifle to shoot now. My thought would be that it could kill at both ends.

[NavyVet1959]

Just be glad you don't have to go through this many steps:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wT1xkRpCKk

[AbitNutz]

[QUOTE=AbitNutz;3444612]So the rifle in question is my Lyman 1878 which has been re-chambered to 450 Nitro Express. The saying "One end will kill you; the other end will cripple you" is so, so true. Aiming? haven't actually tried aiming it yet. Setting the trigger is fairly traumatic let alone shooting it.[/QUOTE
That must be a real safe rifle to shoot now. My thought would be that it could kill at both ends.

Well, actually it's safer to shoot than loading up a 45/70 to higher velocities. As is the nature of larger cases, they shoot higher velocities at lower pressures. I can now get close to Ruger No.1 45/70 performance at almost Trapdoor Springfield pressures. This isn't "guessing". Even max loads for this cartridge have lower max pressures than are listed for the 45/70 lever gun loads.

This is pretty much no more than re-chambering to 45/110 or 45/120 which is very common for Sharps style rifles. I just chose to use a British cartridge due to the fact I happen to like British rifle cartridges.

[AbitNutz]

Remember some years ago when one of the main guns of the USS Iowa exploded and killed more than a couple of sailors? I wonder what step went haywire?

[45-70 Chevroner]

[QUOTE=45-70 Chevroner;3446593]

Well, actually it's safer to shoot than loading up a 45/70 to higher velocities. As is the nature of larger cases, they shoot higher velocities at lower pressures. I can now get close to Ruger No.1 45/70 performance at almost Trapdoor Springfield pressures. This isn't "guessing". Even max loads for this cartridge have lower max pressures than are listed for the 45/70 lever gun loads. ?



This is pretty much no more than re-chambering to 45/110 or 45/120 which is very common for Sharps style rifles. I just chose to use a British cartridge due to the fact I happen to like British rifle cartridges.

It was just an assumption on my part. It seemed like a lot of cartridge for a Sharps. I have a Pedersoli RB in 45-70 and at anything over 1500 fps when using 400 grainers or heavier is getting brutal.

[Paul_R]

Actually, there are a few more possible steps for rifles such as yours-- Right after the aim carefully step, you insert "squeeze eyes shut" and "yank the trigger, hard":kidding:.

As an option, these can be followed by dropping the rifle (on rocks for extra points) and or colorful language you don't want your mother to know you know.

Seriously, This post was meant to be in jest.

Robert

[smilie=l:[smilie=l:

[AbitNutz]

I didn't say it wasn't brutal. :-) A 500gr bullet at 2000fps can light you up for the holidays. I have a shooting vest with some sort synthetic wonder pads in it that I've doubled up...makes it manageable. When bench shooting I have a Caldwell FCX lead sled. I do worry about the stock though. The grip area is thinner than I'd like.

I have a Ruger No.1 tropical in 450/400 Nitro Express that I have loaded to maximum levels that can absolutely rid the planet of any stray dinosaurs.

I would really love a Ruger No.1 with a side hammer, like the sharps. Why? I like exposed hammers. Imagine a 470 Nitro Express, which has the body diameter of a 416 Rigby but a case length of 3.25 inches, loaded to pressures in the 65,000 psi range instead of the factory 39,000 psi range. Setting aside the masochistic nature of such a rifle, it would be incredibly wicked.

You may have guessed I really, really like big bores and I'm not particularly recoil sensitive. Besides having to wait till motor ability and normal vision returns to the left side of my body after a range session, I have no problem shooting rifles with huge recoil numbers.

[big bore 99]

Can anyone think of a cartridge rifle that takes more steps to shoot than the Lyman 1878-Pedersoli-Sharps I have?

1) Move hammer to half-cock
2) Drop lever, lowering breech block
3) Load cartridge
4) Close lever, raising breech block
5) Move hammer to full-cock
6) Pull the rear trigger and setting the front trigger
7) Touch front trigger, firing the rifle

I kinda enjoy doing all those extra steps myself.

[AbitNutz]

Oh absolutely! That is a lot of the fun...While its been said that you don't have to put the rifle on half-cock before opening or closing the action, the manual that came with the rifle specifically says to do so...so I guess I will.

I still have not fully mastered adjusting/using the Kelley Soule sight set I've put on it. It's incredibly beautiful and matches the rifle well.

I'm left eye dominant so single shot rifles really tend to work for me. However, it's still a bit of a pain that the gigantic hammer of the Sharps is on the right side of the action. I really like the center hammer of the Winchester 1885 or Remington Rolling Block much more for functionality. However, the side hammer has them all beat in how attractive it is.

[montana_charlie]

Oh absolutely! That is a lot of the fun...While its been said that you don't have to put the rifle on half-cock before opening or closing the action, the manual that came with the rifle specifically says to do so...so I guess I will.
While not quite as protective of owners, I have a strong affection for fine guns and would never provide advice that I thought might cause damage to one. I came to believe the half cock practise is unnecessry for the Pedersoli Sharps while reading thoughts on the subject by Lee Shaver ... a well-known shooter and single shot gunsmith who provided the factory authorized warranty work on Pedersolis in the USA.

With his belief in mind, I set out to learn (by observation) from the master in the world of the 1874 Sharps rifle.
Yep, I watched Quigley Down Under about twenty times. I think the only time Matthew put the hammer at half cock was when he used his Sharps to knock down a log, to activate a 'clothes-line trap' for some following horsemen.

None of this will probably impress your thinking, however there is one thing you may want to guard against.
(and, here again I am thinking about the well-being of the rifle)
It's perfectly safe to dry-fire your set triggers in order to get accustomed to their operation and feel.
However, do that with the hammer fully down.

When locked in the half cock notch, the sear cannot move to absorb the impact from the set trigger as it releases ... which causes the connecting surfaces to take unnecessary battering.



I still have not fully mastered adjusting/using the Kelley Soule sight set I've put on it. It's incredibly beautiful and matches the rifle well.
You might find this helpful.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/VernierScale.jpg

[stubbicatt]

Ummm.. Missing step: extract and remove fired case? Do I get a prize?

... never mind.

[AbitNutz]

Nope...you're right. The cases do not eject. You have to pick them off the ramp. So that's what? 8 steps now?

[Mk42gunner]

Actually you are correct. There are eight steps in the sequence of operations for every gun that uses fixed and semi fixed ammunition, from the simplest .22 or break open shotgun to artillery and naval gun mounts, except blowback operated ones. The variance is in how the steps are accomplished.

Step 1. Feeding
2. Chambering
3. Locking (omitted in blowbacks)
4. Firing
5. Unlocking (also omitted in blowbacks)
6. Extraction
7. Ejection
8. Cocking

Feeding can be as simple as manually introducing a cartridge into the breech, or as complicated as loading a projectile and powder charge into an electo-hydraulic mechanism three or more decks beneath the gun mount. Some where in the middle are box and tube magazines and belt-fed small arms.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Robert