375 Win Shortened to Meet Indiana Specs

[Djones]

Early this year my dad and I ran across a 375 winchester big bore at a gun show. I really liked it but the guy wanted $1000 so we easily passed. Later he found one for about $500 and brought it home. We struggled to find brass for months until I asked around here. A couple generous members helped me out greatly and got us shooting the 375. Dad was able to take his 375 with him to Colorado elk hunting and I was able to deer hunt at home with it. He didn't see any elk on the public land he was hunting. We are planning on going together next year to a different part of the state. I on the other hand had great success with my opening weekend hunt with the 375. I developed a load with 25 grains of IMR4227 under a hand lubed as cast Lee 380-255 bullet water dropped 50/50 plus a pinch of tin. I had to trim 20 of them down to 1.8" in order to be legal for hunting. I never shot the load on paper but we ran about 30 through the rifle and considered it a good load for hunting.

Picture of ammo is not the shortened ammo.
http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/image1.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/image1.jpg.html)


Opening morning was the 14th of November for Indiana whitetail. I was in a ladder stand at the edge of a bean field with 60 feet of sorghum surrounding the perimeter of the field. At my back was a large thick woods. At first light I had a younger 6 pointer come in at 5 yards downwind of me and he never spooked. I liked that he never caught my wind. As the morning went on I saw around a dozen does.


At around 9:45 AM I heard some crashing around in the woods behind me. Sure enough it was a nice deer chasing a doe. Once I determined the buck was large enough to take he was around 40 yards running though the thick stuff. He ended up stopping and I shot him. He started running so I did my best to shoot more as the openings in the brush allowed. I shot four times. About 30 minutes later I got down and he was still alive. I shot him three more times while he was running through the woods. Finally putting him down. All 7 of the shots were decent shots taking out the front shoulders, both lungs and liver. The final shot that put him down was through the spine. I was able to find 2 of the slugs during cleaning. Maybe a little softer alloy would be something to change. The buck is a super heavy 8 pointer and the best I have ever taken. I wish I could have knocked him down quicker but I didn't.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/66F6E7AD-16AF-4DCB-97D6-E197E70B4321.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/66F6E7AD-16AF-4DCB-97D6-E197E70B4321.jpg.html)

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/image2.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/image2.jpg.html)

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/image1%202.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/image1%202.jpg.html)


The next day I was hanging out on the ground in a fence row between a woods no one can hunt and a large woods that gets a lot of pressure. Sure enough about 20 minutes after showing up around 1:30 in the afternoon three does ran out of the big woods looking for the safe spot. Using the 375 at about 40 yards I shot each of the does once behind the shoulders and dropped both of them on the spot. What a difference in "knock down" between the does and the rutting buck. I really like the 375 and will continue to hunt with it!

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/D1C2C92D-3B18-4173-845E-4F58E74419C9.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/D1C2C92D-3B18-4173-845E-4F58E74419C9.jpg.html)


I have made a pot of chili and some steaks from the deer. We ran out of meat from the two does I got last year so I was excited for some fresh meat.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/703FD7A5-3A1F-493B-9DD2-B8CBF7E21F8B.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/703FD7A5-3A1F-493B-9DD2-B8CBF7E21F8B.jpg.html)

[marshall623]

Nice Buck , that should be enough meat to last a little while . Might try tempering the noses with a torch to see if that helps

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Nice work and quite a buck! Just air cooling those boolits should help soften them up a bit. What velocity do you think you are getting?

[Djones]

Nice work and quite a buck! Just air cooling those boolits should help soften them up a bit. What velocity do you think you are getting?

Thanks for the idea. I've done that for my 35 cal stuff in the past. I would guess velocity at around 1800 or so.

[Ramjet-SS]

Robo buck for sure.

Neat at story I enjoyed it great bunch of pure protein.

[Fishman]

Good grief man, you are gettin' 'er done!

Enjoyed the story very much.

[35 shooter]

Congrats on a super season. What a buck...wow!

[JSH]

To just trim a case short to make length, is that really legal? I thought it had to be a SAMMI cartridge and no wildcats? Just asking.
I know it varies state to state and some leave a lot more gray area than others.

[garandsrus]

Hi, congratulations on your season. Here is a thread that has some Quickload data for the 1.8 " 375 cartridge. There are at least three of us that have done this and it seems to work well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?288636-30-30-to-375-Win-1-8-quot-case-Quickload-info-needed

[Djones]

Hi, congratulations on your season. Here is a thread that has some Quickload data for the 1.8 " 375 cartridge. There are at least three of us that have done this and it seems to work well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?288636-30-30-to-375-Win-1-8-quot-case-Quickload-info-needed

Thanks for the link. In my shortened brass I do not change OAL. I crimp in the lube groove nearest the nose. Using this method I can use standard load data.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-11/C9106E41-DE4E-4652-AD58-7676102B029C.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-11/C9106E41-DE4E-4652-AD58-7676102B029C.jpg.html)

[Djones]

Robo buck for sure.

He was one tough customer. I felt bad shooting him up but I wasn't going to let him suffer.

[Wolfer]

Once the adrenaline is up on a big rutting buck he can pack a lot of lead for awhile.

Detempering the nose gives you air cooled on the nose and water dropped on the body. A small HP drilled into the nose does wonders for starting expansion.

Nice buck!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Still amazed by that buck. Did you get a weight on him?

[runfiverun]

the shortened 375 winchester is called the 375 super mag [probably the 375 USA Mag nowdays]
Dan Wesson made revolvers in this caliber for a number of years and the round should be on the SAAMI website.

if necessary you can shorten 38-55 brass or even blow out 30-30 brass, and trim them back.
you'd want to run slightly lower pressure loads with the weaker brass.

[nagantguy]

What a monster! !!! I've long been interested in the 375. My love for and my daughters new intrest in all things .44 have kept me away, may need to look at it as MI has the same 1.8 length restriction in the former shotgun only zone.

[Thundermaker]

the shortened 375 winchester is called the 375 super mag [probably the 375 USA Mag nowdays]
Dan Wesson made revolvers in this caliber for a number of years and the round should be on the SAAMI website.

if necessary you can shorten 38-55 brass or even blow out 30-30 brass, and trim them back.
you'd want to run slightly lower pressure loads with the weaker brass.

Wait. How does that work? Is it that cartridges have to be a certain length, or is it that the .375 win isn't on the legal cartridge list?

[Mark454]

Indiana has a rule that states "all legal rifle cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter or .357, a minimum case length of 1.1 and a max case length of 1.8". There is no definite list of "this cartridge is allowed, this cartridge is not"...

Anything that fits inside these descriptions is fair game. Shoot, somebody even came up with a specific cartridge called the .358 hoosier that is wicked and perfectly legal. I myself use a 45-70 trimmed to 1.8"

[Thundermaker]

Indiana has a rule that states "all legal rifle cartridges must have a minimum bullet diameter or .357, a minimum case length of 1.1 and a max case length of 1.8". There is no definite list of "this cartridge is allowed, this cartridge is not"...

Anything that fits inside these descriptions is fair game. Shoot, somebody even came up with a specific cartridge called the .358 hoosier that is wicked and perfectly legal. I myself use a 45-70 trimmed to 1.8"

Man, it's almost like they don't want people hunting.

Here in GA, it just has to be .22 cal or larger with expanding bullets. Lots of AR hunters around here. Lots of GA deer are shot with SKS rifles too.

[missionary5155]

Good morning Djones and Congratulations !
That is a fine buck ! Thank you for the fine write up and the photos ! Your solution for case length is what I would do. Seateing bullets out to grease grooves is the simple solution.

Hey fellers.. Some of ya need to research before ya start jumping on the man who lives there and is working within the laws of his state. Indiana says "max CASE length not to exceed 1.8 inches." That's it. Simple, easy to check in the field. No long list of "approved cartriges". I think Indiana has a simple workable plan.
Mike in Peru

[Mark454]

Man, it's almost like they don't want people hunting.

Here in GA, it just has to be .22 cal or larger with expanding bullets. Lots of AR hunters around here. Lots of GA deer are shot with SKS rifles too.
I always thought the sks would be an awesome heavy brush gun. I was with my dad when he bought an original Russian out of a crate in the early 90's for $75.

[6pt-sika]

Hmmmmm if I lived there I might be hard pressed by that law 👎🏻

[6pt-sika]

Oh nice deer by the way 👍🏻

[dubber123]

If the bore on your .375 is pretty smooth, try the 50/50 air cooled. I get 2,150 fps. from my 35 Rem with that alloy, excellent accuracy and no leading at all. It should expand very well for you.

[Djones]

Thanks guys for all of the great responses. I will try both air cooled and water dropped soft points during this coming spring's load development for 2016 season.

I think with a little more expansion this 375 is going to be one of my favorites.

[pls1911]

That buck must have been a BULL> you shoulder shot should have anchored him nicely... but sometimes you just cannot tell...

[Motor]

Congratulations and nice work all the way around.

I really don't understand how shortening a case makes it legal. I've seen this mentioned before for other states that have similar laws.

I guarantee you that if I was checked in PA with a semiautomatic rifle that had been modified to prevent it from being self loading I would still be arrested.

I know how laws written in PA and if the barrel was stamped .375 Win. of .458 Win mag or whatever that is what would determine legality not what you actually had in the chamber.

Do your game wardens carry around a max case length gage with them?

These types of laws will not last. There is too much grey area. I bet they will soon start inforcing the law by what caliber is stamped on the barrel. Or change the law altogether.

Motor

[Mark454]

I'm not sure if the GW's carry a diameter/length have, but I do know hundreds of people have reached out to the state regarding the shortened wildcats, and the state has stuck by the diameter/length policy.if

If it fits in the specs, its legal. Just chatted with a GW at crosley shooting range about it this afternoon.

[Nocturnal Stumblebutt]

To just trim a case short to make length, is that really legal? I thought it had to be a SAMMI cartridge and no wildcats? Just asking.
I know it varies state to state and some leave a lot more gray area than others.

Yep. I know a few people that do the same with 45/70

[bruce drake]

I built a 358 Winchester for deer hunting in Indiana when I moved here in 2013. I shorten the cases to 1.8 as well. Leaves a short neck but it loads a 200gr bullet easily in a Mauser 98 action.

I'm about to finish a rebuild on a 50-70 Govt cartridge which is Indiana Legal without having to trim it down and I hope to use it next year with a 450gr bullet.

And congrats on the 3 deer. THat should help offset the family grocery bills for a good year.

[Djones]

Hey motor from what I have been told the COs have a go no gauge stamped out of steel. They slide spent cartridges through the gauge.

I use 35 Rem, 358 win, 375 win and 45-70 all shortened to 1.8". I've taken 8 deer that I can think of all with these calibers shortened to 1.8" over the last 3-4 years.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
And in ILLinois.... Maybe maybe Maybe ? Our "wisdom workers" in Springfield have a tendency to follow Indiana's lead in gun matters... But too often way too slow. Have an Marlin Ballard in 38-50 that screams to be turned loose on river bottom corn crunchers.
Mike in Peru

[Motor]

Hey motor from what I have been told the COs have a go no gauge stamped out of steel. They slide spent cartridges through the gauge.

I use 35 Rem, 358 win, 375 win and 45-70 all shortened to 1.8". I've taken 8 deer that I can think of all with these calibers shortened to 1.8" over the last 3-4 years.

I live in WV now but still hunt PA when I can. I'm no stranger to weird regulations but most "weird" regulations are usually in the minor category and don't effect many people.

Typically major regulations are written so they can be easily enforced. From an outsider looking in this 1.8" case length rule just seems kinda weird like it was written by law makers that simply don't have any clue. But that on the other hand dosn't surprise me at all. :)

Motor

[Elkins45]

You have to know the history to try to understand. This law isn't a compromise "down" from full-sized rifle cartridges. It's a compromise "up" from no rifles allowed at all. For many years you could only deer hunt with shotguns in Indiana. They seemingly were afraid of the long range of rifles in flat country, and you can only shoot so far with a 1.8" case.

[Mark454]

I know coming from slug guns, to 1.6" cased rifles, now to 1.8" rifles its a major upgrade.

I still don't understand why you're aloud to use centerfire Rifle calibered pistols (.243 and up) like Thompson centers with a 15" barrel, but if you add an inch to the barrel and a stock (making it a rifle) its now too dangerous....

I know guys who have used 308 pistols in Indiana to take deer at 400+yds...

[Motor]

You have to know the history to try to understand. This law isn't a compromise "down" from full-sized rifle cartridges. It's a compromise "up" from no rifles allowed at all. For many years you could only deer hunt with shotguns in Indiana. They seemingly were afraid of the long range of rifles in flat country, and you can only shoot so far with a 1.8" case.

I'm assuming that along with this 1.8" rule that it also has to be a straight wall case?

And is it really true what the previous post stated about bottle neck "rifle" calibers in hand guns?

Motor

[Markbo]

Weird gun regs notwithstanding that is a great buck! I am still trying to grasp how he absorbed that much lead and kept moving. That is just incredible really...And good on you for keeping after him! A lot of hunters would have shot once, put their gun down and assume he would die.

Now for my one request...gun pics! I kniw this is a boolit site but I like seeing gun pics too. ;)

[kevmc]

I'm assuming that along with this 1.8" rule that it also has to be a straight wall case?

And is it really true what the previous post stated about bottle neck "rifle" calibers in hand guns?

Motor

Yep, I hunt with a XP100 in 7BR! Friends with .243 win......

[Motor]

Yep, I hunt with a XP100 in 7BR! Friends with .243 win......

Wow, that's incredible. I'd think it would a lot eaiser to send one over the horizon with a handgun than a shoulder arm. That just makes the rifle rules even more ridiculous.

Motor

[Mark454]

Motor, the 1.8 rule applies to any cartridge. Bottleneck or straight case. 458 socom is pretty popular

[garandsrus]

the shortened 375 winchester is called the 375 super mag [probably the 375 USA Mag nowdays]
Dan Wesson made revolvers in this caliber for a number of years and the round should be on the SAAMI website

The 375 Supermag is not the same cartridge. The Supermag brass is 1.6" and not the 1.8" that is the subject of this thread.

[garandsrus]

Thanks for the link. In my shortened brass I do not change OAL. I crimp in the lube groove nearest the nose. I try to snap a picture. Using this method I can use standard load data.

No, you really can't use the standard loading data with the shorter brass. By seating the boolet in the normal crimp groove, you have effectively reduced the OAL from what the loading manual indicates by the amount you trimmed from the brass, which is about .25". This has the same effect as seating the boolet .25" deeper in a normal case, which should increase the pressure. This is why I wanted Quick load data for the shortened case length.

[Djones]

Added a picture of loaded ammo to post #10

[Smoke4320]

Congrats on a good season

[runfiverun]

garands.
the slightly longer case length gives more credence to the 375 super mag.
it would make feeding easier in a 375 marlin or the 94 big bore rifles with a shortened chamber.

a better round in the leverguns than either the shorter or longer case IMO.
but the concept is just the 375 lengthened out to make the law happy.

they are worried about your gun shooting too far then make a law that say's you have to use a bigger case then what's available and easy to get load data for [shrug]
then they force you to take a round developed for long range silhouette shooting and make it capable of shooting even further.
typical government thinking.

[Djones]

Grandrsus,

check out my picture in post 10. I don't change my overall length.

David

[BAGTIC]

A standard .375 Winchester and a .375 Winchester shortened to 1.8 inches will when loaded to the same OAL shoot the same bullet at the same velocity to the same distance. One is only shortening the neck length and not changing the powder capacity.

[fatnhappy]

Nice deer. I once had a rutting buck lead me on a merry 6 hour chase, despite my first shot having hammered a 12 gauge slug through both lungs. Once I gutted him you could literally see through the 3/4" hole. It wasn't a bad hit. I've never seen anything like it before or since. Go figure.

I haven't hunted in Indiana but the first time someone told me about the 1.8" restriction my reaction was "I expect a resurgence for the .300 savage." As demonstrated by the OP, there are a thousand ways to skin that cat.

[cigarman454]

Congrats on that nice Indiana buck and a great deer season

[Boyscout]

I did the same with a 35 Remington and had a Lee FCD made for it. I couldn't hold a group until I put a firm crimp on it. I am very careful to make sure my brass is 1.80".

[Djones]

I did the same with a 35 Remington and had a Lee FCD made for it. I couldn't hold a group until I put a firm crimp on it. I am very careful to make sure my brass is 1.80".

I used a 1.8" 35 Remington in 2013. Same stand I shot the buck from this year. Only difference was 2013 was easy shooting in an open field. Deer was running of course first shot through the heart didn't drop him. I thought I had totally missed. Usually you get a kick with a heart shot. He put it in high gear after that. Second shot hit him high in the spine and dropped him.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/ABBCA218-DCD6-464C-AAC8-029600B9B480.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/ABBCA218-DCD6-464C-AAC8-029600B9B480.jpg.html)

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt124/duckwhackercmon/FEADB29B-5D3D-4968-9EF9-EAB950203353.jpg (http://s604.photobucket.com/user/duckwhackercmon/media/FEADB29B-5D3D-4968-9EF9-EAB950203353.jpg.html)

[roverboy]

Congratulations on a nice deer, Djones.

[Edward]

Looks like you killed him twice ,nice shooting !