Triggers and primer ignition?

[Naphtali]

I just bought an S&W 640-1 revolver. While it is precisely what I wanted, I have interrelated problems. I intend to shoot only factory ammunition. I have narrowed my choices to two - Federal 38 Special 129-grain Hydra-Shok, or Remington 125-grain JHP GS because I cannot tolerate the noise or recoil of 357 Magnum ammunition in such a small revolver.

Now to the problems. I have a progressive illness that affects much of my body that makes arthritis seem like fun. When I tried snapping the trigger, the finger pain was close to unbearable - but an emergency trumps pain. I have obtained grips that are shorter centerline of trigger to back strap. This will allow me to use more finger and less finger tip. I must obtain a trigger job that will reduce trigger action's poundage and, if possible???, have the trigger action stack near the finish and ease at the beginning.

1. Between the two factory cartridges, which one accepts the lighter firing pin impact while providing reliable ignition?

2. What gunsmiths can do the job(s)? If any is in western Montana, please identify the smith.

[44man]

I feel for your pain but most will reduce the hammer spring tension and is the worst thing to do.
You might consider a SA over a DA. But you have a fine revolver with a super SA pull, just cock the hammer. Now I do not know if yours is DA only so forgive. I can't keep up with all these things.

[Blackwater]

The 640 is indeed DAO unless my memory is failing me. One thing to note is that the key to doing a really good job of lightening and slicking up the S&W's is to be SURE you change out the bolt/cylinder lock spring as well as the trigger return spring. If you don't, the lighter trigger return spring MAY not be strong enough to let the cylinder bolt work properly. If you lighten the trigger return spring, the bolt spring HAS to be changed to a lighter one, too. This places a premium, if you're to get really reliable service from it, on keeping it clean and grit and dirt free.

As to the ammo, Federal primers have the reputation for being "softer" than CCI's, which are generally used in Speer ammo, so I'd vote for the Federals. And remember, it's not the loud noises that stop aggressors, it's center hits. Do that right, and caliber and load is MUCH less an issue than with any other type of hit, and FAR better than a miss of any kind.

Sorry to hear of your predicament. Seems we all get some sort of cross to bear in our senior years, doesn't it. I'm just proud to still BE here, and I'll take all the rest that goes with that. Have a cousin and a good friend really suffering badly right now. Makes me feel really lucky! Keep the spirits up and the heart pure, and it'll get better somehow, one way or another. We just don't get to choose how.

[44man]

My cross is very hard. I will be 78 next month. Where have I gone?
I have turned to a mean old bastard with so many good friends here. So many with problems that we care about. Never give up.

[Mal Paso]

44man is right about the mainspring except there is no SA. The bobbed hammer makes the mainspring more important. Less hammer weight.

Reduce the Trigger Rebound Spring after polishing the lockwork.

[imashooter2]

Virtually all competitive action revolver shooters use Federal primers as they offer the most reliable ignition with lightened springs. The lighter hammer is an advantage in lowering pull weight as the lighter hammer will have higher speed and strike with more energy than a heavier unit. With Federal primers you can easily make a 100% reliable 7 pound DA pull. Going lighter than that starts to edge into reliability and requires significantly more gunsmithing.

Virtually any gunsmith should be able to do the light polish and spring swap required to get to 7 pounds. I would recommend Wilson or Miculek springs. Sometimes the strain screw will fall into the recess in a Wolff "Power Rib" spring leading to light strikes.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have a lot of experience with DAO S&W J-frames like the 640 (a great self defense tool by the way).
I agree that Federal primers are known to be the easiest to ignite.

The hammer on the 640 is internal but for its size, it has quite a bit of mass to it; which is a good thing for reliability. The mainspring weight on a J-frame can be reduced a little without compromising reliability but for a self-defense gun I would caution that you approach that judiciously. The trigger return spring weight can absolutely be reduced a bit without affecting reliability but the trigger reset can become a problem if you over do that. Polishing the rebound safety that the trigger return spring rides in provides a significant improvement in the action.
The REAL key to improving the DA pull without compromising reliability is careful polishing of certain parts to make the action smoother. This has two fold benefits, it allows the use of slightly lower spring weights while maintaining reliable ignition and it makes the action smoother in general. A good gunsmith that knows what he is doing can do that for you if you're not comfortable doing the work yourself.

You've already addressed the grip issue and I can say that is a personal issue that only you can evaluate. The J-frame is made more for concealment than shooting so there are some inherent compromises that have to be made when it comes to the shape/size of the grips. You'll have to come up with what works for you.

I would suggest that if shooting long strings of fire are painful that you get someone else to test the gun with your ammunition of choice to confirm reliability for you.

I will also commend you on your choice of weapon type. I am a STRONG advocate of DAO actions when it comes to snubnose revolvers carried for self-defense. In my opinion, there is NO legitimate justification for single action fire in a gun with a 2" barrel that is carried for close quarters combat. A hammer spur is a disaster waiting to happen on a gun that is designed to be drawn and fired quickly at an adversary a few feet away or maybe even in contact with the gun. Single action has no place in that environment.

I favor the "FBI load" in a short barreled revolver [+P 158gr LSWCHP] but considering your condition, the choice of a lighter bullet may be the best course to take. The Federal 125gr JHP +P [38E] has a decent reputation but I don't know if it is still available. The Speer Gold Dot "short barrel" load with the 135gr bullet is a well proven round but you would get the hard primers with that load. However, if the gun is reliable with that cartridge, it would be another option. One last choice if you can still find it, The old Federal 125 grain NYCLAD HP round [P38M] would be a light bullet and low recoil round but it is standard velocity (not +P). That might be the least painful option for you.

Good Luck and Good Choice.

[imashooter2]

Doh! J frame... My advice on spring choices doesn't apply as they use a coil spring. Apex makes a good J frame kit.

[Petrol & Powder]

You didn't hear this from me :shock: but if you know what you are doing......you can actually cut a few coils off of the factory springs in a J-frame.

[Mk42gunner]

J Frames don't fit my hand very well at all. Every one that I have shot in .38 Special seemed to be a vicious recoiling beast, even with the military 130 FMJ ball load. Maybe a midrange wadcutter would be comfortable; I never tried it, and the question of terminal performance comes up.

The I frames in .32 S&W Long are very shootable though plus you get an extra round. I would like to find a DAO J frame in .32 H&R.

None of the grips I tried were comfortable until I finally got a set that are almost as big as the rest of the gun.

The coil spring geometry makes it tough to get really light springs to work 100%, a good polish on the internals by someone that knows what he is doing seems to me the best bet.

Robert

[country gent]

I have 2 j frames similar to yours in size, a 340 and a 37-2 airwieght. Both are small and light. The 340 is very light and true doa not a bobbed hammer or conversion from another model. By light I mean a loaded wieght of just over 16 ounces, even light target wadcutters are stout for recoil. The 37 is better and does have a hammer with spur slightly heavier and recoil is easier on the shooter. I carry the federal hydra shock load in both. As to trigger work find a smith with good reputation and if possible sample some of his work before commiting. Mine are both stock. I have pistols with trigger jobs done by several smiths and was able at the club to handle test several they had done, If possible fire a few live rounds, a really good trigger done by lighting springs may not give good reliable ignition or lock up. These little guns when needed you are already behind the 8 ball and there is no room for problems, they must work first pull every pull everytime. Yoir life depends on it

[44man]

Federal primers are all I buy, from the smallest gun to as large as you can go. Might be true they light off better but I can say they will stand all the pressure a gun can make. They are not thinner or weaker.
The old thing with Lee saying they are dangerous with their tool is junk, Hundreds of thousands have been seated with mine.
Only once have I seen a primer go off by accident and yes it was a Federal. Friend lost one on his bench so when he was soldering something with a torch, the primer popped.

[Naphtali]

I just replaced my grip set with an S&W logo [Uncle Mike's??] boot grip. I never would have believed it if I hadn't tried them.

No trigger-associated hand pain.

Complete control of trigger and trigger action.

Unbelievable!
***
And then, of course, my minor foul-up. I removed the grips to clean the revolver. . . . As most have anticipated, the grip screw went to the floor, probably somewhere under my stove. I just wasted the last 45 minutes searching my kitchen and beneath my stove for the screw.

Anyone who has the grip screw, please let me know the price shipped you want.

[imashooter2]

The best J frame grips I've ever used are the Hougue Bantams. Compact and hand filling at the same time... I like them on K snubbies as well.

[tazman]

I agree that new grips will help the recoil and control situation with J frame revolvers. I switched the grips out on my S&W 60 and it made a world of difference in how the gun handled. The full power loads with 158 grain slugs feel like target wadcutters after the change. The increased control aloowed me to get much better accuracy with the gun.

[Naphtali]

As it turns out, there is not that much difference in the circumference/perimeter from centerline of trigger to backstrap between the two grips. Yes the boot grips are slightly smaller. The key difference is the distribution of the mass. The boot grip has eliminated the thickness/mass at the backstrap while significantly increasing it forward of front strap. For me this changes where my hand and my trigger finger meet revolver's grip and trigger. The trigger is much, much closer to my palm and my index finger. Leverage changes dramatically. My hand is so small that boot grip's reduced height is not a significantly limitation on how well or how easily I can handle the revolver.

I know for sure that neither Crimson Trace's LG-305 nor LG-405 will be satisfactory because of their backstrap pads. I'm hopeful that the LG-105 will emulate my boot grip's configuration on the revolver. That would probably be as close to a bullet proof defensive handgun for me as is possible given my physical limitation.

[Blackwater]

One other comment, though you didn't ask about it specifically, is that rounding off the trigger's front surface often makes folks feel more comfortable, and lets the fingers slide over it much more smoothly, thus eliminating at least part of the reason for jerking the gun off line of sight when one has stiff fingers or related problems. This shouldn't be terribly expensive, either, but might want rebluing afterward. Keep it polished very brightly, and well oiled, and it'll serve without the rebluing. Just a FWIW.

[Naphtali]

My S&W 640's trigger is smooth. It's probably OEM, plus someone listened to you. You are correct that striated trigger faces I have used in the past were very good single action, not so good trigger cocking.

[Petrol & Powder]

Serrated triggers a DA shooting do not go together!

[Petrol & Powder]

Naphtali - did you find your grip screw? If not, I'll send you one.

Yes, the "Boot Grip" is a huge improvement and it doesn't enlarge the overall size of the gun. It's a real game changer with a snubnose.

[Naphtali]

Naphtali - did you find your grip screw? If not, I'll send you one.

Yes, the "Boot Grip" is a huge improvement and it doesn't enlarge the overall size of the gun. It's a real game changer with a snubnose. I did not. Right now I am using the duct tape screw.

I'll PM you for our correspondence.

[Petrol & Powder]

PM sent

[Groo]

Groo here
A friend has a similar problem , AGE.......
You may be looking at an auto of the 1911 type, sig 923 type various 380 1911 types.
Or a tilt barrel type.
The reason for the cocked and locked action is , A - the trigger will be light and the same each time and B - by cocking the hammer first, force
needed to pull back the slide will be less [ pre-cocked]