Calling all 32-20 handgun shooters.....

[Harry O]

Once I tried Ken Waters suggestion for 6.0gr of SR4756 for loading the 32-20 for handgun use (many years ago), I never looked back. It was without a doubt the best load I ever found for that caliber in a handgun.

I am down to a couple of ounces of SR4756. Unfortunately, it was discontinued a couple of years ago. I have looked for a can at gunshows and gun shops since I heard it was discontinued, but have not found one. I can probably go back to Unique as my second best handgun powder for the 32-20 in a handgun. It was good, but not as good as SR4756.

So I am asking other 32-20 handgun shooters: What works for you? How does it compare with the SR4756 load? Suggestions?

153708

[2 dogs]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t256/Fermin_pics/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6zd410np.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/Fermin_pics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6zd410np.jpg.html)

[rintinglen]

I have used Unique with complete satisfaction. A 100 grain RCBS SWC on top of 5.0 grains of Unique and all is well in my old Army Special.

[Green Frog]

:bigsmyl2: I'll be following this thread with interest as I now have an old (early heat treat) S&W 32-20 M&P 6" and a Navy Arms/Uberti SAA. I've got dies, 6-8 moulds in .311/.314 from 95-125 grains, plenty of brass and a comfortable assortment of powder, so "bring it on!" :coffeecom

Froggie

[Bent Ramrod]

I've used 4 gr of American Select behind the Ideal 3118. American Select is very clean burning. Also used 4.5 gr of Green Dot behind the Group Buy 100 gr Keith boolit. Can't recall if it is cleaner than Unique but it can hardly be dirtier.

I'm always looking for orphan cans of 4756 too. It's like Unique but without the GSR.

[Scharfschuetze]

Unique works well for me in the 32/20 chambered in an S&W Hand Ejector. With the 115 grain cast plain base boolit, it shoots accurately and to the point of aim with the sights at 25 yards. Given my revolver's age, I just duplicate factory ballistics for my loads, but it looks like your modern S&W should be able to handle quite an upgrade in ballistics.

Powder choice will, in the end, depend on your ballistic goal. What's the plan? Factory or fast and powerful?

[Powersgt]

Seven grains of 2400 with a WSR primer under a Lyman 120gr RNFP GC; I have not had a chance to try this load in my Ruger Blackhawk yet but they are extremely accurate out of my Marlin lever with a 16" barrel.

[dubber123]

It is warmish, but 5.1 grains of Green Dot and the RCBS 98 gr. SWC shot under 3" at 50 yards from my rusted bore S&W hand ejector 6".

[Harry O]

I don't have a Ruger single-action in 32-20, but I do have a standard one in .32 Magnum (small frame). I use loads in it that I would NEVER use in my S&W K-frame, even back when it was in .32 Magnum. It is pretty hard to hurt a Ruger, particularly a single-action Ruger. The suggested load looks more than I would want to use in mine.

The 7.0gr of 2400 suggestion is close, but probably not over the danger point. I have used up to 8.5gr of 2400 in a .32 Mag Ruger Super-single-six, but had trouble ejecting the cases. Reducing it to 7.5gr let them eject cleanly. It chrono's just a little faster than my SR4756 load in the 32-20. 7.0gr in the larger case would certainly be slower and probably right about the same speed as the SR4756 load. It might work.

I am going to have to do some digging to find out what I used for my Unique load. I am sure it was under 6.0gr (which is what I use for my standard .45ACP load), but can't remember how much under. I don't worry about how "dirty" it is. It cleans up easily. The only problem I have with Unique is that it meters poorly. I used to set it to meter just under the amount I needed and trickled in the last little bit. One of the nice things about SR4756 was that once things settled down, I could drop the loads without measuring every one. Once every 5 or so worked.

I don't have the other powders suggested.

[Driver man]

AP100 is identical in burn rate and is listed as an equivalent. Don't know if you can get it in the States.

[ejcrist]

:bigsmyl2: I'll be following this thread with interest as I now have an old (early heat treat) S&W 32-20 M&P 6" and a Navy Arms/Uberti SAA. I've got dies, 6-8 moulds in .311/.314 from 95-125 grains, plenty of brass and a comfortable assortment of powder, so "bring it on!" :coffeecom

Froggie

Me too. I got the FA 327 mag w/32-20 and 32 H&R cylinders and haven't fired it yet. I've never owned a 32-20 but I heard and read a lot of great things about them. 2Dogs - that sounds like a pretty stout load (14.5 grs H110). I load 10.3 in my Ruger 32 H&R SS and it screams but is the most accurate load/powder I tried. H110 is an excellent powder in a lot of my revolvers.

[JSH]

I am reluctant to list my TC/Blackhawk loads. However Fermins load is very doable in modern well built guns. My Blackhawk and a 140 PB leaves the 327 in the dust. Lilgun and H110/296 are what I use when out for business.
Fermin, never noticed that hammer before. Looks kind of delicate for the lack of a better word. Speed up lock time any?
jeff

[9.3X62AL]

I'm in Harry O's spot.......wondering WTH to do for the 32-20 wheelguns now that SR-4756 is outta print. (Whose BRAINFART was it to nix PB, SR-7625, and SR-4756 anyway?? Some propeller-hat in a cubicle farm, no doubt). I see Alliant Unique and/or Alliant Herco as my probable replacements down the road, but haven't pursued those avenues yet--having about 4-1/2# of 4756 still on hand. Strangely--due in large part to the Obama Componentry Drought--I have a lot more 4756 here than I do Unique.

[McLintock]

It's not as fancy as 2 Dogs Ruger, but I built this one out of a 3 screw 30 Carbine, using a 327 Fed Mag barrel I got off Gunbroker, Brownell's cylinder and other steel parts like the Super grip frame.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/7384995/400488145.jpg
For a maximum type load I use the 14.5 gr load of H110 as he does, with a 118 gr gas check bullet, out of a mould I got here on the forum in one of the group byes. I also use 12-13.0 grs of 4227 with the same bullet, but like the H110 load the best. For lighter loads I use 2.5 gr of Titegroup or 4.5 grs of Hp38 with a 118 gr plain base bullet from the Lyman mould. I also like to load up black powder loads, using 2F and make some smoke for fun.
McLintock

[Harry O]

One thing about the 32-20 is the wide range of sizes the guns that shoot it are. Anyone shooting the 32-20 should be very careful picking loads off the Internet. While I am absolutely sure that a Ruger Blackhawk will handle anything put in it, someone using that load in a "less strong" firearm will regret it. After all, that frame is available in .44 Magnum. Again, I would not use the 14.5gr load of H110 in a S&W K-frame. If anyone has used that load in a S&W K-frame, please let us know what happened. I doubt that it would be good.

Also keep in mind that there are even lighter (and more delicate) revolvers chambered for the 32-20. I also have a 1931 Colt Police Positive Special. I bent it many years ago shooting 32-20 "rifle only" loads. It was repaired and I shoot ONLY factory loads in it anymore. Loads that we all know are pretty pathetic.

I personally use three loads different loads for my 32-20's. I label them and also use a different bullet for each so I can identify the load in them if they get separated from the label. One is for a modern 32-20 rifle (or Ruger Blackhawk). It is 12.5gr of 2400 with a 100gr flat-nose soft-point jacketed bullet (Remington?) or a Lyman 311316. A step down is for my K-frame. I also used it in a P-frame Jr in 32-20 from Uberti at one time. It is 6.0gr of SR4756 with an 100gr XTP, a 98gr RCBS, or a 115gr Lyman 3118. The lightest one is for small handguns like the Colt PPS. It is 2.8gr of Trail Boss with a 98gr RCBS. Shooting a heavier load in a lighter gun will damage it. No question about it. I have done it.

I am specifically looking for replacement of the middle load. That is the one I don't have any powder for.

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir--be aware of platform strength when loading for your 32-20 firearms. "Handloader" magazine just did an article over the past few months discussing this quirk of the caliber, and concluded (much like Harry's text) that at least 3 loading levels exist for firearms chambered in this caliber.

Another source for load info would be the article by Ken Waters (in "Handloader" years ago and now in the Wolfe Publications' compendium of Mr. Waters' articles from that magazine--"Pet Loads"--specific to the 32-20 WCF in the revolver. One could always just fill a case to the bullet base position with either Trail Boss or The Holy Black, too--just be prepared to wash out the firearm and the brass if THB is your chosen fuel. That hygroscopic BP fouling will do BAD THINGS to gun steel and cartridge brass if given time to do its evil work. The compensation side of the equation is that The Holy Black was the spec'd fuel for these hyphenated prehistorics, and as long as you keep the barrels from fouling out and load your BP ammo correctly their performance can be exemplary. By this, I mean lead/tin alloy--good BP lube--and some compression of the powder column. Lighting things off with magnum primers is recommended in some quarters, but in 25-20, 32-20, 44-40, and 45 Colt I used CCI standard pistol primers with no complaints.

[stubbicatt]

10 grains of IMR 4227, 115 grain cast bullet. Fantastic.

Other end of the spectrum 3.5 grains 231 same Saeco bullet.

[goryshaw]

My .32-20 is a S&W 1905 2nd change, and is about a decade into it's second century. The milder the load the better, I have a Single Seven .327 and a Taurus in .32 H&R for when I want a step up in power.

Just did a batch of RCBS 32-98-SWC this week, another next week should be enough to fill the 500x Starline cases I have for it. That's probably a lifetime supply for that gun, it won't get shot a lot when the other .32s are available as well. Haven't decided on a load yet, most likely somewhere around 3.5 gr of WW 231. Thanks for the reminder about the Handloader article, none of my manuals have data for that bullet, hopefully the article will.

[dubber123]

My .32-20 is a S&W 1905 2nd change, and is about a decade into it's second century. The milder the load the better, I have a Single Seven .327 and a Taurus in .32 H&R for when I want a step up in power.

Just did a batch of RCBS 32-98-SWC this week, another next week should be enough to fill the 500x Starline cases I have for it. That's probably a lifetime supply for that gun, it won't get shot a lot when the other .32s are available as well. Haven't decided on a load yet, most likely somewhere around 3.5 gr of WW 231. Thanks for the reminder about the Handloader article, none of my manuals have data for that bullet, hopefully the article will.

I believe both of my S&W 32-20's are the same model as yours. I have shot quite a few of the RCBS boolits over 3.5 grains of Green Dot, and they were very accurate, and seemed plenty mild on the old gun. The lighter than standard weight does shoot a bit low though. My cylinder throats rerquired .314" for size, and accuracy was MUCH better than .312" Have fun.

[rond]

I use Lil Gun and Universal, 100 gr FP.

[Green Frog]

While I recognize there are metallurgical concerns about original 19th Century Colt SAAs, at this time I have a Navy Arms-marked SAA by Uberti in my safe, built on the same frame and from the same steel as their 44 Spl and 45 Colt versions, so I figure it should be strong enough for all but the most outlandish of 32-20 loads. If I can keep it happy with one or more of the bullets I cast for my 327 FM, this would be the ideal situation.

BTW, has anybody tried 32-20 loads using the bullets from that NOE group buy #314008? They do great in my BH & K-frame 327s, running almost exactly 125 grains using COWW + 2% or or so tin.

Froggie

[salvadore]

I shoot a 3118 style bullet out of my 1931 Colt OP USING 3.5/3.7 gr. of 231. This is a very accurate load in my shooter with .314 throats. As a bonus it also makes a great plinking load in my Marlin CL giving about 1100fps. Hornady hbwc using the same weight charge of 231. I load them out a bit so they run thru Marlin. I recently purchased HP-38 which I'm told is th same as 231.

[Green Frog]

I've got the 3118 mould as well (in an old Ideal DC) but I'm thinking that an extra 10 grains of bullet weight in the similar NOE design might give that round a bit more "authority." Besides, I went crazy on a visit to Dale53 right after I got the NOE mould and cast up a goodly number that are sized and lubed and begging to be loaded and shot. BTW, HP-38=231... they are the same powder in different cans. :cool:

Froggie

[RJM52]

I only have a .327 and .30 Carbine but from what I have read AA-9 and Ramshot Enforcer are two of the top powders listed for these rounds. Any reason these two can't be used for .32-20...

Bob

[Dan Cash]

Colt Army Special, Uberty SAA and Marlin 94 .32-20s. Accurate 105 gr mould, 8.8 grains 2400, pistol or rifle primer. Works well in all three guns.

I could load hotter for rifle but one cartridge serves all three guns and my ammo storage is an old leather purse. Grab and go.

[rintinglen]

I only have a .327 and .30 Carbine but from what I have read AA-9 and Ramshot Enforcer are two of the top powders listed for these rounds. Any reason these two can't be used for .32-20...

Bob
The 32-20 is a much lower pressure round than the 30 carbine, much less a 327 Federal. Think 18,000 versus 40,000/45,000. It is much like the difference between a 38 Special and a .357 Magnum.

[smkummer]

This is a good read. I have a 1923 Colt Police positive special coming (I am looking for about 50 cases if anyone can wants to trade for just about any handgun brass) with a 5" barrel. I have Lyman mold 313445 a semi wadcutter that weighs 95 or close to 100 with WW alloy. I have unique, herco, 231, bullseye, red dot, green dot, 700X, 800X and SR7625. Looks like unique will get me at least 900 FPS safely. That's all I need to do out of this small frame gun.

[rintinglen]

I have a Police Positive that is something of a safe queen. I used 3.3 grains of Titegroup under an RCBS 32-98 SWC the first time out, but I have since changed over to a 95 grain round nose for this gun, to avoid the chance of something bending with one of my hotter cartridges that I use in my Browning 53 or Colt Army Special.

There are really 3 levels of power for loading this cartridge, full Rifle, Heavy Handgun, and Light handgun.

Some of the rifle loads, while safe enough in a 92 action, run 30,000 psi plus, way too much for pre-heat treated revolvers, or any Police Positive. Those big Rugers might handle these, and the Freedom Arms guns, but I would draw the line there. The heat-treated Colts and 30's production Smiths, along with the Modern SAA Clones can handle what ought to be considered Plus P loads in the 18,000-22,000 range. The pre-WWI S&Ws, Police Positives, BP Colts, and similar guns need to run with factory equivalent loads=a 100 grain boolit at 900 fps. Still a very useful load for fun plinking or small game. Be aware of what you are loading for and be careful when looking at load Data.

[dtknowles]

I have a Police Positive that is something of a safe queen. I used 3.3 grains of Titegroup under an RCBS 32-98 SWC the first time out, but I have since changed over to a 95 grain round nose for this gun, to avoid the chance of something bending with one of my hotter cartridges that I use in my Browning 53 or Colt Army Special.

There are really 3 levels of power for loading this cartridge, full Rifle, Heavy Handgun, and Light handgun.

Some of the rifle loads, while safe enough in a 92 action, run 30,000 psi plus, way too much for pre-heat treated revolvers, or any Police Positive. Those big Rugers might handle these, and the Freedom Arms guns, but I would draw the line there. The heat-treated Colts and 30's production Smiths, along with the Modern SAA Clones can handle what ought to be considered Plus P loads in the 18,000-22,000 range. The pre-WWI S&Ws, Police Positives, BP Colts, and similar guns need to run with factory equivalent loads=a 100 grain boolit at 900 fps. Still a very useful load for fun plinking or small game. Be aware of what you are loading for and be careful when looking at load Data.

Why wouldn't any gun in 32-20 that is also chambered for .357 Magnum be able to handle the 30,000 psi loads. Like say a Dan Wesson 322. I do wonder about the K frame S&W but that did not handle the .357 Mag. well so there is the revolver that breaks that rule. I don't know that much about Colts so I guess none of the bigger DA revolvers were factory chambered for .32-20. I have an old article about loading the .32-20 to different levels. Yes, I guess it is really about knowing your gun.

Tim

[dubber123]

Why wouldn't any gun in 32-20 that is also chambered for .357 Magnum be able to handle the 30,000 psi loads. Like say a Dan Wesson 322. I do wonder about the K frame S&W but that did not handle the .357 Mag. well so there is the revolver that breaks that rule. I don't know that much about Colts so I guess none of the bigger DA revolvers were factory chambered for .32-20. I have an old article about loading the .32-20 to different levels. Yes, I guess it is really about knowing your gun.

Tim

If the identical gun was chambered for .357, sure it could handle 30,000 Psi or more. I don't think this scenario happens often, perhaps the DW you mention, and the Rugers. I think there is a bit more leeway than some consider, given the added mass in a 32-20 chamber Vs. say a .38 Spl chamber, not to mention the reduced case head thrust the 32-20 sees.

That said, they aren't making these old guns any more, and some of the weaker specimens have been damaged as witnessed by some of the posters here. As you say, know your gun.

[dtknowles]

If the identical gun was chambered for .357, sure it could handle 30,000 Psi or more. I don't think this scenario happens often, perhaps the DW you mention, and the Rugers. I think there is a bit more leeway than some consider, given the added mass in a 32-20 chamber Vs. say a .38 Spl chamber, not to mention the reduced case head thrust the 32-20 sees.

That said, they aren't making these old guns any more, and some of the weaker specimens have been damaged as witnessed by some of the posters here. As you say, know your gun.

I think your right, age is a big factor. Used to be more old guns in 32-20 than new ones. I don't load my 32-20 Dan Wesson hot but know I could. It shoots smaller groups with the light loads. I don't shoot many hot loads in my .357 Mag. since I got the .357 Max. When you can, if you want more power just go for more gun.

Tim

[9.3X62AL]

All of my 32-20 revolvers date from between 1906 (Colt Bisley x 4-3/4") to the early 1930s (S&W M&P x 5"). There is a Colt Army Special x 5" right in the middle of that yearspan, from 1920. Out of deference to their age and metallurgy I keep their ammo at 1873 intensity levels--which is right useful, BTW--115 to 120 grain bullets just under 1000 FPS in sideiron and a little over 1200 in the Marlin 94. With a 32 Magnum S&W K-frame and a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine in the safe, there is no need to risk these old irons to intrepid handloads.

Not long after Dan at Mountain Molds got his shop running, I designed a revolver-specific radiused-flatnose bullet tipping the scales at 120 grains in 92/6/2. It has done great service in the 32-20 rollers, and has worked well in the 30 Carb BH up to 1100 FPS. I put these up in Starline brass with CCI 500 primers and 6.0 grains of SR-4756. I claim no credit for the load's good work over many years--I took it from the text of Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" column in "Handloader" many years ago. This same article appears in the Wolfe Publications compendium of "Pet Loads" spoken of earlier as well. A handloader could do far worse than to have a copy of Waters' "Pet Loads" on his bookshelf.

[LabGuy]

S&W .32-20 Hand Ejector Model of 1905 (4th change), RCBS 32-90-CM with 4.9g Unique. I have never used 4756.

[rintinglen]

Why wouldn't any gun in 32-20 that is also chambered for .357 Magnum be able to handle the 30,000 psi loads. Like say a Dan Wesson 322. I do wonder about the K frame S&W but that did not handle the .357 Mag. well so there is the revolver that breaks that rule. I don't know that much about Colts so I guess none of the bigger DA revolvers were factory chambered for .32-20. I have an old article about loading the .32-20 to different levels. Yes, I guess it is really about knowing your gun.

Tim

Well, I suppose the Dan Wesson would do fine, as would most other modern manufactured guns, but I have never seen one in the ferrous flesh. In fact, I've never even seen one in pictures outside of an ad in American Rifleman.

But the older S&W's and Colts were not heat treated prior to WWI, and cylinders were soft, compared to later guns. You can dimple the cylinder wall by bulging the weak spot under the slot cut for the bolt by using warmish loads. I have seen two old M&P's that had this issue and it makes for sticky extraction. S&W began heat treating their K-frames in 1919, Colt began earlier, but exactly when seems to have varied from Model to Model. Regardless though, it took both manufacturers a while to get things perfected. S&W doesn't recommend +p 38 ammo in any of their pre-1950's K frames. I am open to correction on the Italian clones, but at least the older ones were not as strong as the true Colt's. I have a 1960's Dakota made by Uberti that is very soft. Mines a 45 Colt but I would be doubtful that any other contemporary Italian guns were much better.
Consequently I stand by my warning on going easy on the older revolvers. They were not as strong as their successor's, and "they don't make 'em like that any more."

[salvadore]

I have shot my Marlin 94CL loads out of my 1931 Colt OP 25000/30000cup? The revolver handled better than I did. I use my puny 231 loads mostly in both shooters. I consider it my .22LR replacement.

[salvadore]

Just wanted to post a target I shot with the 231 a few years ago.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0343_zpsab2beda0.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0343_zpsab2beda0.jpg.html)

[Harry O]

Just to remind everyone, the Colt Official Police is a much larger frame than the Colt Police Positive Special. It is also a larger frame than the S&W K-frame. In fact, the S&W L-frame was up-sized to match the Colt 41-frame revolver. Know your guns limitations before shooting a 32-20 load out of it.

[TXGunNut]

Two words: Alliant Unique

[9.3X62AL]

Just to remind everyone, the Colt Official Police is a much larger frame than the Colt Police Positive Special. It is also a larger frame than the S&W K-frame. In fact, the S&W L-frame was up-sized to match the Colt 41-frame revolver. Know your guns limitations before shooting a 32-20 load out of it.

Yessir. These examples don't grow on trees, as a hobbyist respectful of both history and metallurgy we need to conserve the finite numbers of these revolvers still extant so that future generations can enjoy them as we do.

[Harry O]

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I think I am going back to the old standby, Unique. I have not been able to track how much Unique I was using when I went to SR4756 20 to 25 years ago, but I am thinking of starting at 4.5 or 5.0gr and go from there.

[Penrod]

I just bought an 8 lb. keg of the new Winchester 244 to use with a ton of 9mm. It appears to be quite similar to W231 and I'm wondering if it might be a good powder for a mild load in my Colt Police Positive Special .32-20. I wrote to Hodgdon about it and they only said it was unlikely it would be tested in .32-20 anytime soon. If I chronograph the loads and keep the velocity under 1000 fps, would that be prudent? Or incredibly foolish?

[Outpost75]

I just bought an 8 lb. keg of the new Winchester 244 to use with a ton of 9mm. It appears to be quite similar to W231 and I'm wondering if it might be a good powder for a mild load in my Colt Police Positive Special .32-20. I wrote to Hodgdon about it and they only said it was unlikely it would be tested in .32-20 anytime soon. If I chronograph the loads and keep the velocity under 1000 fps, would that be prudent? Or incredibly foolish?

To match factory ammo goal is 800 fps and try to keep them under 900 fps in a 6-inch barrel.

This is what common factory loads do:

Factory .32-20 Ammunition in Rifle and Revolver

Ammunition Description___________Colt Police Positive 5”_____Savage Sporter 25”
Rem-UMC 100-grain lead
Kleanbore “Dogbone” box 1930s______898, 44 Sd, 116 ES________1302, 15 SD, 38 ES

Peters 100-grain softpoint
Kings Mills, Ohio 1940s_____________870, 28, 71______________1150, 44, 137

WRA 100-grain lead
Red & yellow box 1950s____________854, 33, 87_______________1263, 18, 53

W-W 100-grain lead
Rounded primer, yellow box, 1970s____800, 11, 31______________1241, 9, 22

W-W 100-grain lead
Flat primer, white box, 1990s_________778, 27, 69_____________1172, 18, 65

R-P 100-grain lead
Bridgeport, CT 1970s________________780, 24, 67____________1181, 17, 52

R-P 100-grain lead
Lonoke, AR current production________716, 21, 55_____________1140, 12, 35

Column Mean by Gun_______________5” Revolver______________25” Rifle
Average Velocity of Factory Loads_____814 fps._________________1207 fps

Standard Pressure Handloads for Rifle or Revolver

Bullet, Little Dandy#, Pdr. Chg.____Colt Police Positive 5”______Savage Sporter 25”

Accurate 31-105T
220070220071220075

LD#4, 3.4 grains Bullseye__________798 fps, 27 Sd, 60ES________1153 fps, 20 Sd, 72 ES

LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp________912 fps, 19 Sd, 53 ES________1315 fps, 32 Sd, 118 ES DO NOT EXCEED!

[Harry O]

This is certainly an old thread. I know since I started it.

To update everyone, I started switching over to Unique. However, I unexpectedly managed to find about 2-1/2lbs of SR 4756 at an auction. Two cans were sealed. I unsealed them, checked the smell (no problems), then checked the grains against an ounce or two of my original SR 4756. Under a 20x magnifier, the grains looked identical. So I shot up the Unique and got back to SR 4756. Since then, I have finished off the partial can and have started on one of the full ones. The way my health has been going, I probably have enough to last the rest of my life. Maybe.

[Penrod]

Thanks guys. My Colt PPS is a 6" bbl so I will take Outpost75's advice and hold velocity in the 800's. I still have some SR4756 left and will try that per Harry O and Ken Waters. In Pet Loads Mr. Waters seemed to strongly feel the wide variation in accuracy boiled down to wide ES with certain bullet/powder combinations.

By the way, what's the general feeling around here as regards Ken Waters' case base measurement system for estimating pressure? It appeared to me to be a decent method of estimating relative pressures and would keep you out of trouble. On the other hand, it might just be the ticket to GET you in trouble! It seems like many writers USED to swear by it and now I never see anyone mention it. Perhaps there's a good reason no one mentions it anymore???

I would love to try the powders between WW231 and AutoComp in the .32-20 in an effort to find that unicorn load.

[Outpost75]

Case head measurement for pressure isn't going to give safe or meaningful results in low-pressure handgun calibers and it is only marginally useful in full charge rifle loads.

In high pressure rifle rounds like the .308 Win., 5.56 and .270 Winchester, taking the same new or once-fired case and repeatedly reloading it until the primer pocket appears looser by feel is a better indicator.

If the primer pocket in a .30-'06 case stays snug for ten reloads the load is safe. A .270 or 5.56 might not make ten reloads in a full charge, but absolutely should not be noticeably looser and easy to seat a primer after five.

If primers seat easily after five reloads the charge is WAY too hot!

[Reverend Al]

I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

https://i.imgur.com/37NuntC.jpg

[dubber123]

There are a ton of powders that work well in the 32-20 in revolvers. I have had good luck with Green Dot, Unique, Herco and Power Pistol to name a few. While not stellar, the S&W I fooled with most would stay in 3" at 50 yards, and had a terrible bore that I had to firelap the snot out of. The 32-20 wasn't the problem child for me that many report. Maybe I got lucky this time :)

[Green Frog]

I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

https://i.imgur.com/37NuntC.jpg

Where do you get your powder, Reverend Al, the Victoria Museum of Technology? Those are some historical cans there! They should put to rest any questions we’ve been seeing here about using “old” powder... that stuff qualifies a ancient. What hurts is, I used to see some of those cans when they were new! I guess a classic can of powder for a classic cartridge is just appropriate!

Froggie

[Reverend Al]

LOL ... well, I think that I AM the Victoria Museum of Technology when it comes to reloading gear and components! I've been reloading since I was 17 and I'm 65 now. Over the years I've been given or have scrounged up and bought a fair bit in the way of old hand reloading tools and old components. (I have two shotgun clay target boxes full of old shotshell hand tools for example.) I'm still working my way through a bunch of these old components like the powders in the photo (as long as they still smell "sweet") with good success so far.

[WALLNUTT]

I bought a pound of 572 awhile back. There little or no data at the time but 4756 data was supposed to be safe/interchangeable. It seemed to work out OK. I don't know for sure it works the other way but why wouldn't it if one were careful.

[murf205]

I haven't got around to reloading any .32-20 handgun rounds with any of my old stock SR4756 yet since I'm still using up the last of my old Dupont No. 6 Pistol!

https://i.imgur.com/37NuntC.jpg

That "snap top" can of Hi-Vel brings back memories of my first reloading press, a Lyman Vandallia, that I used to load shotshells with when I was a young'un in 1960. Red Dot came in the same type can and I used enough of it to decimate the squirrel and rabbit population around my home. Nice collection you have there Al

[Green Frog]

I've still got a couple of pounds of 4759 like that old green one... of course they've been refilled from bulk a time or two. ;) I've also got an even lighter green colored 4759 can with the same scenario. Any one of them sure looks good on the bench at a schuetzen match. 8-)

Reverend Al, I've got a small collection (accumulation?) of older cans as well, but it's easy to admire some neat ones like yours. I'm especially impressed with the Curtis and Harvey and those two green DuPont cans peeking out from the back row. One of these days I need to make up some sort of nice display of the empty cans, maybe when I build my "man cave." :mrgreen:

Froggie

[Reverend Al]

Thanks Froggie! I'll have to shoot a photo of the entire shelf full of old powder tins down in my reloading shop ... there are a few more of them! (I'm not a hoarder ... I'm an "accumulator!)

;)

[justashooter]

Thanks Froggie! I'll have to shoot a photo of the entire shelf full of old powder tins down in my reloading shop ... there are a few more of them! (I'm not a hoarder ... I'm an "accumulator!)

;)

don't make me take a picture of that full 1 pound can of Dupont 3Fg black powder with the paper label with the 1906 date on it...

[JSH]

Case head measurement for pressure isn't going to give safe or meaningful results in low-pressure handgun calibers and it is only marginally useful in full charge rifle loads.

In high pressure rifle rounds like the .308 Win., 5.56 and .270 Winchester, taking the same new or once-fired case and repeatedly reloading it until the primer pocket appears looser by feel is a better indicator.

If the primer pocket in a .30-'06 case stays snug for ten reloads the load is safe. A .270 or 5.56 might not make ten reloads in a full charge, but absolutely should not be noticeably looser and easy to seat a primer after five.

If primers seat easily after five reloads the charge is WAY too hot!

I would not use that anymore than I would the thoughts of measuring case stretch for this day and age.
I have loads for modern guns that I know are over the top, no brass issues.
There are just so many variables to cover that when one of the "signs" shows up we are usually wayyyyy wayyy past the danger zone. Barsness or Pierce did some work on this subject some time back. Bone stock factory rifles, when bolt lift got sticky or brass had swollen pressures were rediculous. One rifle just had a large chamber but still within factory specs.

[lazs]

just found this thread and it is timely. I have an old Blackhawk 30 carbine. It hates 30 carbine rounds.. they will tie it up. that is the bad news.. the good news is that because it has the extra space the old ones had between cylinder and recoil shield.. 32-20 brass (once trimmed a tad) will drop right in and the cylinder rotates easily and cases eject nicely. I have been running cast and HT coated bullets (.309) from 100-130 grain in the gun. I am using WW231 .. so far the loads are right around 900 fps from this 7.5" gun.. with such a big heavy single action the recoil is almost nothing as is the blast. Turned a safe queen problem child into a fun.. flat shooting plinker.

lazs

[Harry O]

lazs: Ruger's have a reputation of having tight chambers. Also, I have a Marlin Model 62 that has a tight chamber. The .30 Carbine cartridges that worked well in my M1 Carbine would sometimes jam in the Marlin. I checked the cartridges and found that I needed to trim a few of them that were just 0.001" overlength and to use the taper crimp die just a little bit deeper. Once I did that, the cartridges worked in both the Carbine and the Marlin.

I would not be surprised if this was the case with the Ruger, based on other Ruger's I owned with tight chambers. Not to discourage anyone from using 32-20's, but the .30 Carbine brass can take a LOT more pressure. I use the 32-20's at moderately high pressure (28,000 to 32,000psi), because at high pressure (40,000psi or so) they will only last a few shots before leaving the front half of the case in the chamber. Getting it out without damaging the chamber is a *****.

[lazs]

Thanks Harry... I think I tried everything. I used a Lee trim die which trims way down to minimum. Like you I thought 30 carbine brass is tough and cheap... . no matter what I do the carbine brass ties up the gun. I used digital calipers and the mouth is at or below specs on my loaded rounds. If it was just one brand of .30 carbine I would say... ok.. but it is every type from surplus stuff to high dollar off the shelf factory loads and all my handloads. I am at minimum length now... the cylinder spins nice and free till you fire the gun 6 or so times... then it is tied up and won't spin at all.. the rounds need to be pounded out with a dowel.

lazs

[Harry O]

lazs: Sorry to hear that. Just remember that your gun can take a LOT more pressure than 32-20 brass can. Don't go as far as .30 Carbine loads with 32-20 brass (approx 40,000psi). Even so, if you hold it down to 28,000 to 32,000psi (and the brass will last quite a while at that pressure) that is a LOT more powerful than factory loads. Also, use Starline brass for ALL high pressure loads. It definitely is heavier (thicker walls) than Winchester or Remington brass.

[9.3X62AL]

Also, use Starline brass for ALL high pressure loads. It definitely is heavier (thicker walls) than Winchester or Remington brass.

Very sound recommendation. Starline 32/20 brass is excellent stuff.

[lazs]

I had no 32-20 brass so the stuff I bought was indeed starline. This is not a gun that will get shot a lot I am thinking it is heavy and long barreled but fun to shoot but not the most interesting in the safe. A couple hundred cases is probly a lifetime supply. It is cheap to shoot tho using my cast and coated bullets.

lazs