Shotgun Chamber Inserts

[newton]

I might be picking up a H&R 410 for very little, and thought about putting a chamber insert for 22 hornet in it, getting it drilled and tapped for scope mounts, etc.

LONG range project, as I already have enough on my plate.

Just curious if anyone has done this, or if anyone on this board makes inserts like this? The only one I have seen so far is an outfit in Alaska.

I know that it would not be worth the cost if the gun was expensive, but when finished the cost would be much less than that of a single shot 22 hornet already chambered(if you can even find one now days).

[Tackleberry41]

McAce makes a 410-22hornet insert. But I would imagine it would have to be the 18" to fit in a legal shotgun, probably have to cut the barrel to that length. Its $150. I bought a ready to shoot H&R in 22 hornet not long ago for about $100 more. One issue you might have is the hammer hitting the primers hard enough. Shotguns have less hammer spring than a center fire. I have a Rossi youth model that came in 44mag/20ga, I made a 45 colt barrel for it, sometimes use cut down 454 brass in it, it won't fire them all the time. And I was fire forming 9.3x74r to use in a 410, the shotgun would not always set of the rifle primers.

Having a lathe I have considered making some inserts for myself, the barrels arent terrible expensive, its the reamers. I know they can be rented, but its another $40 or so, not much less than just buying them from McAce.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

This kind of project demands care. The H&R and a few other basic American shotguns are strong, but there are others, especially Belgian, which I wouldn't use. Most of them, and probably all .410 are reliably proved, and are strong enough for their intended purpose. They didn't swindle anybody, but I wouldn't strain those firearms any more than intended, and they include some of the most dainty and charming on the market.

Firing-pin size or fit might also require in any of them, although fine for a shotgun. I always think fit is more important than size until you get up to astronomical pressures. As long as there is no illegality in the length of the adapter, a much longer shotgun barrel should do no harm, and may cut the noise a little. I think the small rifle primer should be a bit more easily indented than large ones, and a .410 will probably do it nicely. If it doesn't, a more powerful mainspring should solve the problem without undue strain on the robust H&R sear and bent surfaces, and it isn't one of the difficult sculpted ones.


I wouldn't, though, use even an H&R .410 for a larger high-pressure cartridge.

[Green Frog]

McAce makes a 410-22hornet insert. But I would imagine it would have to be the 18" to fit in a legal shotgun, probably have to cut the barrel to that length. Its $150. I bought a ready to shoot H&R in 22 hornet not long ago for about $100 more. One issue you might have is the hammer hitting the primers hard enough. Shotguns have less hammer spring than a center fire. I have a Rossi youth model that came in 44mag/20ga, I made a 45 colt barrel for it, sometimes use cut down 454 brass in it, it won't fire them all the time. And I was fire forming 9.3x74r to use in a 410, the shotgun would not always set of the rifle primers.

Having a lathe I have considered making some inserts for myself, the barrels arent terrible expensive, its the reamers. I know they can be rented, but its another $40 or so, not much less than just buying them from McAce.

The insert is not necessarily a full length liner... I've seen them as short as 6" or so in pistol-class calibers with just enough bore length to stabilize the bullet. One I've always wanted to have made up to slip in my pocket while hunting is a 32-20 to put into one barrel of my OU 20 ga when I want to shoot something with a bullet instead of shot.

Froggie

[Boolit_Head]

I doubt there would be enough accuracy to warrant a scope.

[Tackleberry41]

May not be the accuracy, but making it repeatable. I do not know how tight they are in the barrel, probably vary alot by who made the shotgun, tight in one, loose in another. Once you got it zeroed, doubt you could take it out and put it back in and still be dead on. In such a case might be better off doing a barrel stub to 22 hornet.

Yea I see McAce sells the short ones, the occasional use to get a close up rabbit, might work, but hes talking a scope. Do not see where it would get much range or accuracy. A 22hornet w a 6 in barrel is not going to be much if any better than a 22 mag. Be a funky sounding gun when it went off thats for sure.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It would have to be relieved in external diameter to avoid vibrating against the .410 bore - either that or close enough to provide a smooth sliding fit throughout, which isn't practical with the bore variation in guns designed to fire shot. Unless it was custom made to fit it would need some kind of resilient contact ring at the front end of the liner, and that goes double if it is long enough to reach the choke.

I don't know if an O ring would be and stay accurately enough centred. One possibility or larger shotguns would be something on the principle of this engineering collet, which includes rubber sheets to let it grip a slight range of sizes. Make it internally tapered, and expanded by a tapered sleeve which fits the liner tube, and it could be expanded to grip the bore. For a .410 I don't see any alternative to offering a range of bushings. Neck sizing bushings to put in reloading dies have been a success on the market, so why wouldn't that?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boring-Machinery-ER32-5-Stainless-Steel-Collet-Chuck-/121765790335?hash=item1c59ce827f:g:7~QAAOSwQPlV~z1 0

[Boolit_Head]

You guys are talking about two different things. Chamber inserts for center fire pistol rounds are usually just that. They are short and usually only occupy the chamber. Most I have seen do not give good performance but they do allow the cartridge to go bang. Tube sets are usually for over under guns and are full length and usually are fitted but are for sub gauge shot shells. I have never seen a full length insert for a center fire pistol round.

Briley is one of the leaders in tube sets.
http://www.briley.com/c-418-fitted-tube-set-pricing.aspx

They do make sidekick inserts for shot shells only.
http://www.briley.com/c-467-order-side-kick-chamber-tube-sets.aspx

This is one of the longest chamber inserts for pistol I have seen.
http://www.gunadapters.com/12-gauge-to-9mm-pathfinder-series/

[Cap'n Morgan]

One of the very first thing I made on a lathe as a kid was an insert to shoot 22LR from a twelve gauge. Once the outside profile was done, a suitable nail between the insert and one of the claws in the chuck would give the correct offset for drilling the chamber so that the firing pin would hit the rim of the 22.
Later on the inserts became more advanced with a 6" rifled barrel and extractor. These inserts was surprisingly accurate - even in a side by side without any rear sight. You just aimed a little to the right and below to compensate :wink:

[Boolit_Head]

Getting extraction to work correctly is usually a challenge for them as well. With all the various extractors on all the various guns coming up with a one size fits all is not a good situation. I've seen some without extractors and you had to remove the insert and pound out the cartridge to insert another.

[sthwestvictoria]

Has anyone trialled the Chiappa X-calibre adaptors? I believe they are 6" rifled inserts.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/02/23/chiappa-resurrects-m6-survival-gun-w-10-caliber-options/

[leadman]

The old H&R guns, pre NEF, were available on the cast iron frame in 30-30, 22 Hornet, 357mag, 44 mag, 45-70, 22 jet, and a few others I have forgotten about. I had a 44mag that I had a gunsmith rechamber to 445 SuperMag. Never had any issues with it.

I looked at a gun Thursday that had 6 inserts for it along with the 2 barrels already on the gun. Can't remember the name but it was one odf those survival type guns. The inserts had 2 o-rings on them.

[Tackleberry41]

They sort of have to use o rings vs something more solid due to the variation in shotgun barrel dimensions. You could probably lathe one out that fight tight and repeatable accurate, but might not fit very many guns. I always wondered if they could use something more solid, a nut type set up on the end to hold it in place, but would require a set length of barrel. Only shotgun I have that could even use the longer inserts in is my old double barrel 16ga.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Subcalibre tubes used to fire the .297/.230 Morris cartridge in the British military rifles had a nut at the muzzle. But expansion and contraction will vary the tension, and while there may not be much heat in that cartridge, even two or three Hornets might make a differencre. I would leave the front end free to slide lengthwise, but there might be some advantage in a resilient 0-ring in the forcing-cone area of the .410 chamber, to keep it tightly against the breech face.

The shorter the insert is, the greater the inaccuracy imposed by a given amount of divergence from concentricity at one end. Also a high power rifle will mushroom the rear of a jacketed bullet when the barrel is cut off at three or four inches. I would want a minimum of a foot or so for good accuracy with the Hornet, especially if cast bullets were ever to be used.

[newton]

I contacted the guy and asked about the 18" vs 10". He said the 10" would be fine for what I was wanting to do. I know I could get more velocity out of the 18", but this would just be a fun shooter. I have read a few articles about the 22 hornet and pistols and 10" pistols shoot the round fine.

IF I was to do this, I would epoxy the insert in. He said that it would be fine. I am sure I could retro fit the extractor to eject the rounds also.

I highly doubt it is something I will do anytime soon, but its a tempting fun/easy project to take on. It would not be a match rifle by any stretch, but I would think I could match 22LR type accuracy for about the cost of a 22 rifle.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Epoxying it is undoubtedly the best way, if you can do without a .410 shotgun. But if you can, take a look at the liner tubes available from Track of the Wolf. Neiher reaming the barrel to fit nor turning down the 1/2in. liner to fit is a big job. With any luck you could achieve an invisible joint at the muzzle.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/1

With a good single .410 you could remove an epoxied liner with heat if you ever wanted your shotgun back. With a double, which has soft soldered ribs and barrel regulating packing pieces, I wouldn't risk it.

[newton]

Epoxying it is undoubtedly the best way, if you can do without a .410 shotgun. But if you can, take a look at the liner tubes available from Track of the Wolf. Neiher reaming the barrel to fit nor turning down the 1/2in. liner to fit is a big job. With any luck you could achieve an invisible joint at the muzzle.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/637/1

With a good single .410 you could remove an epoxied liner with heat if you ever wanted your shotgun back. With a double, which has soft soldered ribs and barrel regulating packing pieces, I wouldn't risk it.

I actually had thought about this also. i just was not sure if the liners came in sizes that would fit the 410 bore. I figured the 22 hornet would not be too hard to ream. But the cost of the reamer and the liner - well, you have reached the cost of having one made. Of course, you do get the satisfaction of doing it yourself I guess.

I have never had, nor ever think I would have a use for a 410 really. In fact, when the guy who has it showed it to me I just glanced over it and gave it back. Never even thought about buying it. Then I thought about this idea and now its very tempting.