Loads and bullet choice for Marlin 1894 .357

[aeronc]

I did a search but did not find anything so sorry if it has been addressed multiple times before.
Marlin 1894 .357 suggestions for bullet choice , weight, cast vs ???, size.
Velocity suggestions for best accuracy. Anything else you may suggest.

Also I can load 38 special so if you have suggestions for those loads, bullets , etc

Thanks in advance for sharing you expertise!!!

[Outpost75]

The proof of the pudding in any long gun is what it will do at 100 yards. Everything else is only foreplay. Many handgun loads fail to provide linear dispersion in proportion to the range, when fired from rifles, so you need to test. Wad cutters do very well at 50 yards, but no joy at 100.

I tested ordinary .38 and .357 handgun ammunition for which I had reliable previous 50-yard accuracy data. These included match-grade .38 Special Norma 158-gr. lead round nose factory ammo, handloads with Speer swaged lead round nose and semi-wad cutters and hand loads with cast lead, flat nosed cowboy slugs. All were standard velocity .38 Special loads fired from a BSA Martini with 6X Unertl small game scope for five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards. The best loads in the Martini were tested again in my 24" Marlin 1894 Cowboy II with 2.5X Weaver scope.

Norma 158-gr. LRN standard pressure .38 Special factory loads averaged just under 3” at 100 yards from the BSA. Handloads with swaged lead round nose and semi-wad cutter ammo in .38 Special cases didn’t shoot quite as well, but did stay under 4 minutes of angle, having useful field utility.

The most accurate 100-yard cast loads used the Hunter’s Supply cast 190 LFN of 92-6-2 alloy, sized .358 from Midway, with 4.3 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases. They averaged 2.18” in the BSA and 2.36” in the Marlin. This is the same bullet as NEI #191A and Accurate 36-185F is a close clone. I cast some of those also from wheel weights tested them, getting comparable results as long as velocities with softer wheel weight alloy were subsonic. I normally use 3.5 grains of Bullseye in .38 cases and from 4.0 (if low noise is important) up to a maximum of 4.5 grains in .357 cases, based upon accuracy results. Supersonic loads do not group as well at 100 yards as the slower ones, due to transonic buffeting as projectile velocity decays below the speed of sound.

My advice is not to magnum-ize it, but keep it handgun-caliber lead loads in rifles slow, accurate and quiet. A good working velocity range is from 950 to 1080 f.p.s. In a 24” barrel this gives a peak decibel noise level of less than 90dB, measured at 1 metre from the muzzle, so there is no crack to disturb the neighbors. A big flat-nosed bullet is effective on groundhogs, wild turkey and larger edible critters raiding your garden. Bon appettit!

153609153610

[357Mag]

Aeronc -

Howdy !

I have often recommended 14.5gr WW296 ( H-110 same stuff ) and SP Mag primer; under a Lyman SWC of 158 - 172gr.

In the 1894SC I had, and 4", 5", and 6" "N"-Frames I shot the load(s) in; it always shot superbly !



With regards,
357Mag

[aeronc]

Thanks for the suggestions, two different approaches , and I will try both. I really appreciate you help.

[cattleskinner]

I am going to use a 180 gr rnfp gas checked out of mine this year for deer. 16 gr. Lil gun and a Winchester SPP. The limiting factor in accuracy is me, as it is more than enough to kill the deer around here.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Have a Marling 357. If I was going to hunt deer 180 grain would be my minimum weight with a wide flat nose. Gound hogs at 50 yards a 150 grain anything but a round nose works well through the shoulders. Wabbits.. anything from round ball to 150 grains.
Your rifle is not mine so do check carefully the groove diameter. Yours may be .358 or like mine .360. Your's might have a nice "tight spot" where Ruger so kindly "smashed" into the barrel steel all their lawyer info. With a tight patch run it down the barrel slowly feeling for snags, rough spots and tight spots. These all will affect cast accuracy.
Loads... All loading manuals have low start loads for whatever weight of "j thangs". Use those. Your rifle will be different than mine.
Powder... I use a lot of Unique for low to medium power loads. 2400 for faster. 296 and 1680 for "thumpers" with 180 and heavier cast for bigger critters.
But seriously if I was going pig hunting I want a 40 something caliber. But if a 357 was all I had then a 190-200 grain FN cast is what I would want. These fit well in 38 Special brass and 296 works very well. 2400 also but I could not get the same accurate velocity in my Ruger with heavy cast. Your rifle will be different.
Mike in Peru

[Ed_Shot]

My 1894 likes cast sized to .358. The Lyman 358156 over 2400 13.5 gr. has always been a winner. For plinking, mine will clover-leaf the Lee 358-158-RF at 50 yds using Red Dot/Promo 5.0 gr. I did a lot of experimentation to find a 38 Spl load that would shoot to the same POA with accuracy equal to the Lee 158 gr. and have settled on the older Lyman/Ideal 358242 (120 gr) over Red Dot/Promo 4.2 gr. I find all these loads equally accurate in pistols.

Best of luck, I know you'll like the Marlin.

[sghart3578]

After a lot of reading/loading/experimenting/shooting/etc. I have come up with a system that works for me and my Marlin 1894CS.

I cast and size my bullets to .360". At lower velocities I have used .359" and .358" also with good results, but the best is with .360". Your rifle will tell you.

I have divided my loads into three categories:

Plinkers: Lee 358-158 RF, beagled and sized to .360".
3.5 gr Bullseye, avg 850-900 fps, accurate all day fun

Medium: NOE 360-180 WFN, plain base, sized to .360"
9.4 gr AA #9, avg 1300 fps, practice rounds for my hunting loads

Hunting: NOE 360-180 WFNGC, gas checked and sized to .360"
12.5 gr AA #9 or 12.5 gr 2400, avg over 1600 fps


You will like your Marlin.

Best of luck,

Steve in N CA

[Lead Fred]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292254-MiHec-BRASS-358429-HP-38-357-Keith-SWC-HP

I have one of these original Ideal molds

Its the only 357 mould I use now

[Rusty W]

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51/RWoolever/Marlin%20357/th_MOV00046_zpsug1yyfxo.mp4 (http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj51/RWoolever/Marlin%20357/MOV00046_zpsug1yyfxo.mp4)

16.5gr of 2400, 125gr Montana Gold JHP, WSP. Dead on the money w/every .357 I have. SP101, GP100, Sec.6, Speed 6, Taurus Tracker, & the Marlin.
Haven't got around to working up a cast load for it yet. I have a bunch of 125gr JHP's & they shoot so well it'll be a while before I get around to trying a different load.

[FergusonTO35]

My 1894 likes the Lee 358-125-RF and 358-158-RF sized to .358 with just about any kind of powder behind it. The larger boolit will take a gas check no problem too.

[stubbicatt]

I have a Uberti 1873 replica, and find that using Lyman's 160 grain RNFP "cowboy" bullet with the fat grease groove sized to .358" I get good accuracy with 13.3 grains of 2400 or 5 grains of 231. The 231 load is really surprisingly accurate. I haven't chronoe'd these loads yet, but I reckon the 231 load is approaching 1100 fps. These loaded in Starline 357 magnum brass.

HTH

Regards,
Stubb

[Scharfschuetze]

I like the truncated cone 180 grain boolit cast hard and sized to .358" for my Marlin 1894 CB in 357 Magnum. It feeds well and when used over Lil'gun powder it is accurate at 1,750 fps (over a chronograph) and holds well to 200 yards. I haven't shot it farther than that, but I still have some elevation adjustment left on the Lyman 66 aperture sight for when I'm somewhere where I can.

[gundownunder]

My 20" cowboy II likes a Mihec 360640 solid at 175gr, sized to .357 and pushed hard with 2400, 2205 (4227), or Lil'gun. I chrono'd the 2205 load at 1750fps, 2400 will be a little less and Lil'gun a little more. I use it out to 200 for CLAS silhouette. That bullit has a good size flat nose so should make a good hunting load too, though I haven't tried it.
For Xmas I'm going to get my wife to buy me an Accurate 36-175LT, it's tumble grooved and has a smaller nose profile so I'm thinking it will have better aerodynamics over the longer range, and since I Hightek coat I may even get the grooves removed to improve it a bit further.
Everyones rifle is different so we all need to find what works for us. My 360640 bullits out of a mates Marlin carbine will shoot groups half the size that my Cowboy will, and mine won't shoot a 158gr bullit worth horse dumplings no matter what speed I try. It will however shoot a 125gr at reasonable accuracy as long as it is shot at medium to high velocity, it used to do well with Bluedot, before Alliant told us to stop using Bluedot for 125gr loads.

[Bazoo]

I like the 358156 with 15 grains of 2400, mag primer for a full power load.

[Bazoo]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292254-MiHec-BRASS-358429-HP-38-357-Keith-SWC-HP

I have one of these original Ideal molds

Its the only 357 mould I use now

In 357 cases, the 358429 will not cycle through a marlin 1894 unless the carrier is modified by cutting the cartridge stop back. It would be fine in 38 special cases.

The marlin 1894 i had would cycle the 358156 in 357 cases, but not in 38 cases.

[Jeff82]

I use a Lee 358158 cowboy bullet sized to 0.359 loaded with 6.2 grains of Universal. I use an 8% SB and 2.5% SN alloy. Velocity will clock around 1,260 fps. This will shoot sub-4-inch MOA at 100 yards. Plain base gas checks will take an inch off of the group.

--Jeff

[Hal]

Hi.... Great thread..... Outpost75, the bullet I designed is beside yours in the acc mold catalog.... bout the same ...different lube grooves.
I shoot Lever Action Silhouette and had bad luck till going with heavy bullets.... unlike a lot of input here , I look for very low recoil and great accuracy at 100Meters. Anything less than that is of little interest to me. Currently with limited range time I am grouping under 2.5" at 100M. AA#2 has worked way better than Bulls Eye for me using WW's air cooled.
Jeff82.... What you said about plain base gas checks..... Your loads are to hot for what I am trying to achieve but, I have been thinking about trying the PB gas checks to tighten the groups up.... What material are you using? Do you or anyone else here have any good reports about doing this. I am only looking at the accuracy improvement and not more speed.
Thanks.... Hal

[gundownunder]

Hal
In my experience the PB gas check will improve groups. I shot dozens of 5 shot groups to compare checked and non-checked when I first got my PB check maker and consistently got improvements of around 20% - 25%.
My checks were made out of beer cans.
A couple of days production will give you years worth of checks.
One problem with drink can checks is they can be a bit fragile to put on the bullets and you get a few that tear the skirt off as they go through the sizer.
Biggest problem with them is that you have to drink the beer to get the cans :veryconfu

[220]

Used 158 speer GDHP for years as my hunting load for medium game, would reliably shoot 1-2" at 100, hornady 158gr XTP 1.5-2.5" at the same distance when I couldn't get the GDHP.
Im now using NOE 180 WFN, 3" groups at 100 usually with one shot spoiling what would have been 1-2" group, cant pin down the cause but Im happy enough with it anyway.
For plinking or small game I use my revolver target loads.

[Orchard6]

My favorite load for deer in my Rossi 92 as of late is the lee 358-158 rnfp cast out of acww, pc'ed and unsized (.360) over a charge of 17.6 grains of Lil' Gun with a CCI mag primer in Herters (Cabella's house brand) cases. It clocks in at about 1925 fps in my rifle and gets a solid 4" group at 100 yards. This isn't my most accurate load but is great for deer. Where I hunt if they don't drop in their tracks you stand a good chance of losing them as it's very brushy and swampy with a creek not far away that they can easily run down and wash any blood off them.

For accuracy my rifle will clover leaf at 50 yards with the same boolit on top of 10.9 grains of 2400 sparked by wspp in Herters cases.

[outdoorfan]

I will echo the mention of the NOE 360180 wfn. 16 grains of Lilgun should be around 1,800 fps. I've shot this out to 200 yards in my Rossi 92 with no issue whatsoever. Accuracy (with a Lyman 66 peep sight) is generally 2 MOA, not counting the occasional flyer.