Gasoline fired?

[Mark@sea]

Anyone here use the old gasoline fired melters?

I'm getting into this hobby backwards - I like shooting, but never tried casting. Another significant hobby for me is collecting/restoring old Coleman lanterns and stoves... In pursuit of this I ended up with an early 1900's pressurized gasoline burner with a good-sized iron pot and ladle. I've got it, might as well use it for something - thats my story, anyway.

[Bret4207]

Yup, got a Clayton-Lambert. Works great. Definitely an outside toy.

[Kraschenbirn]

Oughta work just fine. Back in the 50's, when I was growing up, gas-fired blowtorches and pot heaters were standard tools for plumbers, roofers, and sheetmetal workers. Like any other combustion heat source, though, you'll need plenty of ventilation.

Bill

[Bret4207]

Mark- I'm sorta into the old Coleman stuff too. Are there any online tutorials on the RIGHT way to service these? I've never owned anything new and my "by guess and by gosh" methods might not be the best for my stuff.

[Mark@sea]

Bret, the following link includes rebuild instructions - step by step, with photos - for stoves and lanterns.

http://www.oldtownyucca.com/coleman/tech.htm

There is a discussion group if you want to ask questions, meet other Coleman nuts, or if you collect and rebuild the table, wall or chandelier lamps coleman made for in-the-house use.

http://www.oldtownyucca.com/discus

Parts, new, old and NOS, are available at

http://www.oldtownyucca.com/coleman/

I've been concentrating on the early lanterns, 1915 - 1940's, lately. Good looking, very well built, and work like champs.

Hope this helps

Mark

[Typecaster]

Mark—

Thanks for the link. Very low-tech...I really like the Coke or Pepsi bath for cleaning brass parts...

[Mark@sea]

I use Kool-aid, myself. Just about any form of citric acid will work - but don't leave it in overnight! What model lanterns do you have?

[Bret4207]

Outstanding! Thank you sir!

[Mark@sea]

Glad I could help. I have in the neighborhood of 300 lanterns, been collecting and rebuilding them for several years. If your lantern(s) nickel-plated, I have a very good source for getting it re-plated the way a collector wants it done. Had a source for getting the top re-porcelained, but the guy dropped out of the biz. If I ever manage to retire for the second time, I will probably take that up as well.
It does not particularly mention this on that website, but a 'clean as a whistle' fuel-air tube makes a world of difference in brightness. I use a small ultrasonic cleaner.

[testhop]

Anyone here use the old gasoline fired melters?

I'm getting into this hobby backwards - I like shooting, but never tried casting. Another significant hobby for me is collecting/restoring old Coleman lanterns and stoves... In pursuit of this I ended up with an early 1900's pressurized gasoline burner with a good-sized iron pot and ladle. I've got it, might as well use it for something - thats my story, anyway.

the price of gas now days is going to make it expensive

[Mark@sea]

Hey, if it works a couple times, I'll be happy. Then I can shelve it and use an electric unit. I just can't stand having something that doesn't work.

[Bret4207]

Thanks again Mark. My stuff is all 1960's era and forward I think. I run onto this stuff quite often at garage sales and auctions. I can't seem to resist "one more". I'd like to have some of the older ones, or better, a couple of the kerosene models. They were quite a bit brighter IIRC and popular in the Adirondacks when I was a lot younger.

I have a Coleman gasoline stove stove I keep in my work van. Dano67 has the neatest Improved Habachi charcoal grill you ever saw in his. Between the 2 of us we can cook up a pretty good meal on the side of the road!

[Mark@sea]

Shoot me an address and I will see what I can come up with next time I make it home.

[scrapcan]

here is another site for classic camp stoves.

http://www.spiritburner.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=30b354ff9f95fe472b4e2dde56590947

I would be in a world of hurt if I had a collection of everythign I would like. You guys will jsut have to share some pictures of your toy collection.

I have a GI M1950 that just got rebuilt. I need a new control knob, but it works like a charm and was the first burner used to melt lead for loading 38 and 45 pistols. You can see one in the following post, not mine.
http://www.spiritburner.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10150&highlight=stove

[Mark@sea]

Manley, I have some 15 or so M1950's, some never fired, have the ops and maintenance manuals, tools and spares. I'll have to make a list or something of e-mail addresses - I can get you a knob, no problem. Well, except I ain't gonna be home for many moons.
The M1950 is a pretty neat stove... I have a few pictures of some of my stuff, I will see if I can figure out how to post them here - if that is appropriate?

[Mark@sea]

A few Lanterns:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/OldRadarTech/Coleman/d3efre2.jpg


A few more:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/OldRadarTech/Coleman/e638re2.jpg

Older lanterns:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/OldRadarTech/Coleman/2e55re2.jpg

Restored 249 Scout kerosene lantern
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o94/OldRadarTech/Coleman/9858.jpg

[Mark@sea]

Bret, I can find you a kero lantern or two - yes, they are brighter. Kero has more BTU's.
The mantles (socks) are also larger than what you're probably using.
If you want really bright, I have a couple kero searchlights - stand almost 3 feet tall, large parabolic mirror, will put out enough light to read by at 100 yards, easy. The pump has a T-handle, it is about like using a bicycle pump.

[miestro_jerry]

I have a late 50s coleman lantern, it still works great. The issue of gas prices is becoming real serious for me and a bunch of you. I sue propane and have 6 20 pounders out in fuel shed. These are from early last year pricing. I sue propane for my forge, as well as my turkery fryer/smelter and a couple of heaters for the shop.

I do like gas for some things and would love to find a Vietnam era army gas burner or cook stove.

Jerry

[Mark@sea]

Miestro, I really didn't come to the board to sell coleman, honest!
The stove would be the M1950 single burner, gasoline stove. I have a small pile of them. Are you familiar with them?
I also have several military issue gasoline lanterns.
If you want one and are willing to wait a few months, PM me with an e-mail address or phone number or something, we'll get you sorted out.

By the way, folks, regular unleaded works fine in these things....

[Alchemist]

Miestro, I really didn't come to the board to sell coleman, honest!
The stove would be the M1950 single burner, gasoline stove. I have a small pile of them. Are you familiar with them?
I also have several military issue gasoline lanterns.
If you want one and are willing to wait a few months, PM me with an e-mail address or phone number or something, we'll get you sorted out.

By the way, folks, regular unleaded works fine in these things....

$6.00 a gallon Coleman fuel NOT REQUIRED????

What a chump I have been! :groner:

[Bret4207]

I've found using regular unleaded that if you strain it through cotton balls inside a coffee filter, inside your funnel, it seems to work better. Also use fresh stuff. Walmart lantern fuel works fine too and is less expensive than Coleman. OTH Coleman fuel works best for speed dipping traps. I'm sure you needed to know that!

Mark- If you run across a couple Kero models, using models not pristine, please PM me. Thanks again for the info. Nice collection. Wish I still had our old Coleman coolers. Last I saw of it my Dad was raising worms in it about 1977......

[Mark@sea]

Sure thing, Bret. Next time I am home. I like 'em pretty - the last photo I posted, when I brought that lantern home my wife asked me why I pulled it out of somebodys' garbage - it was rough.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

$6.00 a gallon Coleman fuel NOT REQUIRED????

What a chump I have been! :groner:

Coleman Fuel, like lighter fluid, is just plain good old naptha, available in paint stores, at more reasonable prices. Some lighter fluids(Ronsonal) having a perfume ingredient added.
Morgan

[scrapcan]

Mark,

mark Nice collection and nice work on the restore. I would be interested in parts for the M1950 if you come across some. I have toyed with trying to collect some of the different models of GI stoves, the trouble is I always lose out to someone else with more money and time.

I also use unleaded fuel in a couple of gas stoves, I have cotton gauze pads in bottom of funnel.

I have a gas plumbers furnace that needs rebuilding, I may need some help with it. Hope threads like this one propagate.

Jeremy

[scrapcan]

Mark,

What is the wheeled vehicle that we can see the headlamp of in your picture?

Also have you tried burning no2 diesel in any of the kerosene lanterns? My great and grand parents did that with a couple, but I was way to young to remember anythign other than they made light.

I too would be interested in a user kerosene lantern.

Jeremy

[pjh421]

If any of you smelt with a plumber's stove I hope you have a fire extinguisher standing by and that its away from anything of value. When the pump seal fails it will be quite evident. Other than that they really get the job done!

Paul

[grumpy one]

Mark,

Also have you tried burning no2 diesel in any of the kerosene lanterns? My great and grand parents did that with a couple, but I was way to young to remember anythign other than they made light.

Jeremy

Diesel fuel is essentially kerosene with a small amount of oil added, to lubricate the injection pump (a multicylinder piston pump which runs at several thousand psi, and is awfully expensive to repair or replace). The oil doesn't evaporate properly in the Coleman vaporiser. I suggest you don't use diesel. Incidentally the oil is pretty noxious as well, and likely to be a health hazard.

For the purists, there are a couple of other differences between kero and diesel as well: diesel has the waxes removed so it won't clog filters at arctic temperatures, and it has its contents edited to ensure it complies with the functional requirement to achieve a suitable cetane number. Having said all that, if you add a little bit of suitable oil to it and are in a mild climate, heating oil is likely to work quite well as diesel fuel in an emergency. Use other than in an emergency might be a federal offence, though - it would be here in Australia, because the federal excise is not charged on heating oil.

[Mark@sea]

Manley, that is a 36 Plymouth.
I just buy regular kerosene, although several people I know have reported good results with JP5 (jetfuel, available at your local airport).
If it is okay by the moderators, when I get home I will post something in the swap forum so that folks can contact me regarding lanterns and stoves...
Fire extinguishers are always a good idea when testing a rebuild, but I've found these things to be quite reliable after they're done up right.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

How about a Petromax? They'll burn any flammable liquid, from diesel to gasoline, including used vegetable oil. And they've got a real neat bunsen burner-style pre-heater.
Morgan

[Mark@sea]

Morgan, I am familiar with the petromax. Stick with Kerosene. Using gasoline changes the name to 'petro-bomb'. It is a good lantern, but lacks the positive fuel cutoff and pump checkvalve shutoff of the coleman design - so if you have a seal failure in the petromax, you will have a jet of fuel from the pump. With kerosene, this is messy - with gasoline, it is rather dangerous.
Additionally, whatever you are using as fuel, ensure you get the heat deflector for the bottom of the lantern cage. This lantern generator design requires higher operating temperatures than the coleman. The petromax fuel pickup is soldered into the fount with a lead solder. If the mantle develops a hole in the side, the resulting jet of plasma will burn a hole through the pyrex glass. You can imagine what happens when the mantle develops a hole in the bottom - the solder melts within seconds.
Kerosene is relatively hard to burn. Gasoline, not so much. The petromax is a good lantern, very bright, somewhat over-engineered, but stick to kero.

[Ed Barrett]

Mark;
Looks like a railroad lantern on the top shelf. My gradfather had one that he kept when the New York Central change over to battery models. It hung in his garage for years and years.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Thanks Mark, I use diesel in mine. I'll check my lantern to see if I have the deflector.
Morgan

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Mark, Checked, and it's missing. I'll have to order one from Britelyt. As a collector, I'd like to ask you a few questions about Coleman-type items.

Have you ever heard of Sun Flame Appliances? I've got a one burner gasoline stove I purchased for camping over fifty years ago. It looks a lot like the small Coleman one burner stove that came out several years ago, but larger, having a full sized lantern style tank, and a cast iron burner. It's called a "Speedykook". It's got two knobs, the main flame knob, and a side knob to feed pure gas to prime. Spent a lot more time using it for casting bullets, than camping, and before I got my propane plumber's furnace, still used it for melting scrap lead, even after I got my Lyman Mold-Master. If you're curious, I'll take a photo, and post it.


Another long winded question: Back about the same time, my father bought a Coleman double mantle lantern that we used for salt water night fishing and spearing eels. We used to mount it on the bow of a rowboat, and it lit up the water like an aquarium, while we pushed the boat with a pole. On one occasion, the lamp fell into the water while lit, and naturally the globe shattered. We replaced the globe, but must have left some salt water in the air pump, because over the next few years, the lamp became harder and harder to pump up, eventually becoming impossible to do so. This turned out to be due to the steel air tube, coming from the pump slowly rusting shut. About ten years ago, I wanted to rebuild the lantern, but was unable to remove the tube or valve at the bottom of the pump. I went to a local camping center, where they repaired Coleman lamps, to buy a replacement tank. They said they'd never seen a tank like mine. It was the standard(I thought ) green tank, but instead of being painted it was porcelain coated.

After this long story, my question is, are Coleman lamps with porcelain tanks that rare? It was purchased in about 1953, in a salt water fishing equipment shop. The porcelain coating defeated my attempt to cut the bottom of the tank off, to replace the air tube.

Morgan

[scrapcan]

Mark,

What body is the 36 plymouth? My uncle just bought a 36 or 37 business coupe. I thought I recognized the headlamp and fender on yours. The one he bought has about 32K original miles and is a three owner car. It is in pretty good shape and has not been rodded/hacked/butchered. He might need a few parts, do you have a source for parts for these old girls?


ON the other topic of diesel fuel. I agree whole heartedly about the use use highway fuel in burners, there might be to many additives to be safe. However, when you have a few diesel vehicle sand equipement and it is a sunday afternoon and you are out of everything but the drain on the fuel filter housing works, you are still in business if you can run it in the burner.

And as far as the fire extinguisher, it is ever present. Actually just checked two of them last week to make sure the charge is up and that they are the correct classification for the potential fire sources where they are loacated.

This is another very interesting topic, glad to see it came up.

[scrapcan]

On the topic of things to not do at home, here is one for you. I recently lost an uncle whom I was very close to that was a glazer most of his life. He and another guy did a hospital in during the winter in the time frame of 1960-1965. He gave me a set of pictures before he passed away last month. In one of the pictures is a 5 gallon metal bucket full of sand that they poured gasoline into and used as a flame driven space heater.

He had pictures of that bucket heating the rooms they were putting steel sash glazings in. He said he learned the use of this simple device while stationed in Austria from fellow austrian military personnel. The pictures he gave me sho that it acted very much like a catalytic type burner as the flame and heat was very close to the surface of the sand in the bucket.

He also said it is a good idea to keep an extinguisher around and not put anything to flammable in the immediate vicinity. I have not tried this and am pretty sure my wife would have me commited if I did, so it is just passing along some "best not to try this at home" information.

[WineMan]

I just resurrected a model #502 single burner. The tank interior was rusty and covered in old fuel varnish. I poured in some Navel Jelly soaked it and then rinsed it well with hot water. I then used denatured alcohol and then acetone (old chemistry class method of drying glassware) to get the water out. I then poured in a couple hundred BB's and shook the sucker for an hour or so, good exersize for sure. I then rinsed it with Coleman fuel and poured it out. The leather pump gasket was dry but intact and soaking in motor oil got it pliable again. The cap gasket was shot and nobody around here had a new one (available on line I know but $10 shipping for a $3 cap was not in the budget). I scraped out the old one and used blue RTV silicone to make a gasket. Filled it with fresh C-Fuel and it lit on the first try!

We used it to cast 7 lb of various boolits: Lee 309-170, Lee 312-160TL and the first cast on the Fattest 30 from the last Group Buy. This model uses the cleaner lever to regulate the heat and it is more like a switch than a valve. I use a digital thermocouple to keep and eye on the heat and the best I could do was to keep it between 680 and 725 during the cast. With a little RCBS pot it is pretty stable, but trying to pump it up with a full pot on top is a Tinsel Fairy visit waiting to happen, luckily the thing gets pretty hot and generates more pressure from the heat.

I also have a Coleman 425G two burner like we had when I was a kid and use it for smelting and casting. Somewhere I know I have one of the heat drums for the #502 but it is buried in the garage.

When I was a kid I did have a non working Coleman lantern with a Mica "globe" the generator had a loop for preheating. Unfortunately this probably got the toss when I went off to college in the 70's.

The pumping up, hiss and smell of the burning fuel really bring back memories, I guess thats why I keep them around.

[Mark@sea]

Hi Morgan,
I've never seen or heard tell of a porcelain coated fount. I'm pretty sure they were pulling your leg - porcelain coating is a heat-intensive process, and would melt the solder used to seal the pump tube and fuel opening to the fount. It may have been some other material... I do know the earlier paint was a lot tougher - but if your fount is porcelain coated, I'd love to see it.
Double mantle lanterns in general: Current production for 1953 was the 220 or 228 (narrow or wide ventilator) E model. E's had a steel tank. The earlier (until 1950) model was the D, which had a brass, nickel plated tank.
I can send you a replacement 'E' fount, or you can buy one through Frank at oldtown yucca (see link posted earlier) as well as the correct decal for that year. Cutting the bottom out isn't recommended - if your pump tube walls are rusty, you'd destroy the fount cutting that tube out. You may be able to 'sleeve' the pump tube with a thin brass tube of correct ID and length. The valve at the bottom of the pump tube is the check valve. I have a special tool to remove and replace it, but rather than pay big bucks to do that, I'd suggest you use an easy out to remove the check valve. It'll destroy the valve, but you're gonna have to replace it anyway. Frank carries them, and if he is out I can send you one for about 5 bucks. Considering that the integrity of the fount is compromised, I would replace it, though - and 'E' founts are cheap. After replacement, you might consider having the fount powder coated if you intend to use it in a saltwater environment.
Full rebuild instructions available at Oldtown yucca, and if you'd rather not tackle it I will do it for you next time I am home - a full rebuild takes maybe 4 hours if you do it right.
Hope this helps!
Mark

Sun Flame (pretty sure they were made by American Gas Machine) Big orange lantern with a cook top, right? A friend of mine has one, I think...

[Mark@sea]

Manley, it is a P2 - 4 door touring sedan with trunk. I have a great parts source, but the catalog and info are at home, sorry.... I know they have a website, I just tried looking for it though and can't find it.
Coleman at one time sold a siphon so you could fuel your lantern or stove from your car... those are hard to find!

Wineman, shoot me a PM and your address, ant the model # you need a gasket for. The most expensive gasket I know of is about .75 cents. Cost you a stamp.... The 502 should be very responsive as far as adjustable flame - if it isn't, the most likely culprit is the generator tip being worn out, or the cleaning needle shot. About a 5 dollar fix, and worth it. The 502 is a great stove.
The mica globe lantern - either a 327 or 427 Quick Lite - my favorite models!

[Mark@sea]

Ed, good eye. I collect railroad stuff too...

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Mark, the fount was coated in green porcelain, identical to the top of the shade/reflector, and the pump tube and pump housing weren't soldered, they were welded, as was the threaded boss for the gas valve. The bottom wasn't attached by the sides being rolled under it with an in turned bead the way my others are, the sides came straight down for about 3/8" and went straight up the underside. There was a texture on the inside that looked like straight diagonal knurl, which was probably spot welding of some kind. It was impossible to scratch the surface with metallic items. As a last resort, I attempted to remove the bottom on a belt grinder, and finally gave up and replaced it with a new painted one. Looked around, but I must have trashed it. I haven't found anyone that's seen one of these, which is why I asked you. I should have kept it, it might be rare.

I've posted photos of the stove. I placed a Coleman kerosene lamp next to it for scale. As you can see, it looks a lot like the small Coleman, except for the size. It was bought new in 1953. Should have cleaned it up before it rusted this bad.
Morgan

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/stove1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/stove2.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/stove4.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/stove5.jpg

[Mark@sea]

Morgan, yes, that is, or was, an extremely rare fount. If you find it, I'd REALLY like to see it.

The speedicook is AGM's copy of the coleman model 500 stove - I have a couple of those and I really like them. Coleman did make some larger - the Handi Gas Plants, which stand nearly 2 feet high, have a huge cast iron burner, and put out plenty of heat. Handi Gas plants are kind of rare in my neck of the woods - they were popular with 'shiners, and so many of them ended up getting axed by the dang revenooers.

Nice 237 kero!

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Mark, thanks for the input. You've got me really curious. I'm going to contact Coleman, and see what info I can get on the lantern. Surely they have records going beck to 1953.
Is Sun Flame Appliances connected with AGM?
Morgan

[scrapcan]

Mark,

If you happen to think of me the next time you think about the plymouth parts source shoot me a pm or an email. My uncle is in need of a couple of parts and one is the temp guage as his is broken pretty badly. A few other items also but not for sure what all he needs.

Jeremy

[Mark@sea]

Will do, Jeremy. Looks like I will be referring back to this thread and several PM's next time I get home, in order to get some lanterns/stoves/parts out to folks.

[OeldeWolf]

Ok, unleaded sounds good, but here in Cali what we get is rather a bastardized blend. Alcohol (enough to reduce your mpg), MTBE, etc. Would this be usable in a coleman? Or would it be as nasty as it is in carbureted engines?

[Mark@sea]

Hi Folks,
I managed to get home for the weekend and went through my PM's - Wineman, I'll have your parts in the mail by tomorrow for that 502 stove.
I don't have addresses for anyone else.
ManleyJT, my plymouth parts come from http://www.oldmoparts.com/

[scrapcan]

Thanks Mark I will pass it along.

You wouldn't happen to have a spare temperature guage and sending unit laying around would you?

[Mark@sea]

No, sorry.