Forming 7-30 Waters from 30-30 brass

[Rompin Ruger]

I've read thru several pages of you gents posts on making cases from something else and a few on fire forming that were posted.

I have a Contender in 7-30 Waters. I clean, deprime and then neck down in the 7-30 waters die

In the past, I had a cheap source of cast .284 bullets to use for fire forming, but it required a range trip.

but it worked extremely well.

Now I read elsewhere about COW and some fast powder to fire form the case...then some say it really fouls the bbl, others claim there isn't enough pressure to push the case back and truly fire form for head space.

I do not wish to invest in 7mm molds and waste precious lead casting up fire forming heads, burn up tons of primers and powder (that are s o hard to find these days) and require a range trip.

The COW outside on the deck sounds pretty cool, but I'd rather not screw it up if there are those who might suggest a best way to do it...?

The stair step neck on the 30-30 case, necked down to 7mm, also pushes that shoulder front about 1/4" roughly speaking...which seems like it might take a wee bit more pressure? Switching to a different process using cereal, seems like a body should know what he's doing in advance!

Total unknown for me, so I come to sit at the knee of those with insight and I am willing to learn...

Thanks in advance!

[garandsrus]

30-30 becomes 38-55 or 375 Win with a few grains of fast powder and cream of wheat. Works great!

[triggerhappy243]

fireforming withcow is louder than fireworks. it does work. so the barrel gets a little dirty... no big deal. Necking down from 308 to 7MM is a cake walk. You will have to fire form to finish anyway. your 7-30 headspaces on the case rim, not the shoulder.

[Dryball]

I used to have a contender in 7-30 for years. All you have to do is run through the sizer die and reload. Funny enough-my fire form loads were the same as my hunting ones and they were accurate .

[Rompin Ruger]

TH, Louder then fireworks... there is a range of DB unknown! :)

Hadn't thought about the headspace being a non issue with the rimmed ctg.

Dryball, you did up hunting loads with the two step neck and got accuracy?

I am amazed at the accuracy we got out of the 14" bullbbl... couple inches at 400... Of course, as we reflected on it, a 14" thick truck axel doesn't have much room to set up harmonics, so accuracy likely was better then a 20" bbl!

We then used pointed spitzer bullets made for Single Shot pistols but another of our group went to the 140 gr ballistic tip when they came out, found with even reducing powder for the 10 gr. heavier bullet (140 vs. 130) they printed the same elevation and grouped super. perhaps it was the higher BC with the polymer tip.

Any suggestions on powder or amount there of?

[725]

+1 with dryball.

[GRUMPA]

Some of you folks I see need to fire form cases.

When I have the time I'm going to make a thread on Hydroforming. It takes someone with a lathe and just a couple of custom parts but a couple whacks with a hammer is all it takes to bring the shoulder to where it needs to be.

The beauty of it is you can use the sizer die (NO LEE DIES) and alter it by adding just a couple of things. It is a bit messy when the water gets sprayed from the process but if a person has more time than $ it may be worth the consideration to look into it.

Here's what I mean: I made some 225Win from 30-30 and the shoulder location is way off. A couple of whacks with my brass hammer solved the need to fire form them and in the end they worked great for him.

153555

[fryboy]

... in theory and practice THEY can headspace on the rim but for the contender that isnt best , set the die up to just "snap closed" on a sized case , case life will be much improved
in my humble opinion it is worth at the very least a lee mold and a sizing die , cast works well not just only for fireforming but that too , and yes i've used many various leftover and/or cheap j-words for forming chores but as noted above the forming loads also work great for varmits and the like [shrugz]
cream of wheat works well , yes it may be a tad dirtier than regular loads but ... that's why we have cleaning equipment , best is a soap or wax plug to hold it all in place or as me dear old daddy used to say " there's more than one way to skin a cat " ( personally i prefer to start with a dead cat :p ) if one necks up to 38-55 or 375 first or starts with said cases fireforming is reduced to almost nil , as a plus both are often stronger cases than ye olde 30-30 but ... not as plentiful nor as cheap

[Rompin Ruger]

Wow! AS a bit of a neophyte to all this more advanced level stuff (I have reloaded for 50 yrs, but mostly straight forward type things, so some of this is pretty "new".), I can say that some of the suggestions made seem to run counter to others made... but that is the nature of a public forum, as I see that in my other big interest, traditional archery.

I appreciate all the input. I guess I'm more confused and less sure now then when I started, but a hearty "thank you" to all who have posted!:veryconfu

[leadman]

I use COW but also use wax or boolit lube to make a plug in the end of the case. The wax or lube keeps the COW in the case and helps keep the barrel lubed and then it is easier to clean the COW out of the barrel.
For a break action like the Contender or Encore it is easy to use an automotive feeler gauge to set your die to get the headspace you want. I shoot for .001" to .0015" in my Contenders and Encores. The first time you use the feeler gauge it is best to remove the extractor so you can get a good reading easier. Then slide the feeler gauge between the case and the standing breech of the receiver before closing it. Close the action and see if the gauge will come out with just a slight drag. If it does you are good to go. Too loose, adjust the full length die up, too tight, adjust the die down.
Using this method will ensure that the hammer will cock and the gun will fire. Headspace tight enough to have to snap the action closed can lead to the gun not firing.

[Dryball]

Yes, my accuracy was there. I will have to look at my data book for specific load but I know I used 140 grain Ballistic Tips...and, I believe IMR 3031. Grumpa, Could I pm for more info? I would be extremely interested if you would sell the drawing for the parts...I have to form some 257 Rob AI brass for my custom Mauser. Hydro forming dies would be the way to go!

[GRUMPA]

Grumpa, Could I pm for more info? I would be extremely interested if you would sell the drawing for the parts...I have to form some 257 Rob AI brass for my custom Mauser. Hydro forming dies would be the way to go!

I don't think there will be the need to PM me for drawings. There are no drawings when I make what I need since each and every Hydroforming job I do can be classified as "UNIQUE". I have a couple of different form jobs I need to do in a couple of days (25&30Rem) and I'll take pictures as I go. When I make the thread on it I'll get into as much detail as I can.

This requires a lathe to make the parts, no 2 ways about it. And when you do this type of work it's important you stick with 1 head stamp.

[Rompin Ruger]

One thing for sure...you gentlemen are not your basement handloaders!!! Goodness. Automotive feeler guages and such...!:veryconfu

Yeah, my eyes spin. Just not things I'm sure I know what's being said...makes me feel like a complete dolt, but better to admit confusion then go off like the butcher who dropped his cleaver!:oops:

I thought it would be easy to avoid a big trip to the range from what I'd read here the other year on fire forming with cream of wheat... but it rather sounds like there is a lot more precision to it then I'd expected.

Going to be rather laid up with knee replacement after mid December and living alone, as i t progresses and we had nice days, I thought perhaps I could get out on the deck and fire form a bunch of cases!

Looks like there is a lot more to it then I realized or...know!

Again, thanks for the posts, but apparently, I'm way to "JR" at all this and you guys are in the Box Seats... way beyond my pay grade!:killingpc

[garandsrus]

Fire forming is very easy. Some fast powder and cream of wheat is all that is needed. Point the barrel up and pull the trigger. The only real cost is a primer.

[M-Tecs]

Hornady Hydro dies

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/hornadys-hydraulic-case-forming-dies/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/04/whack-dasher-cases-into-shape-with-hornady-hydro-form-die/

http://www.hornady.com/store/Custom-Dies-Category

[Rompin Ruger]

Fire forming is very easy. Some fast powder and cream of wheat is all that is needed. Point the barrel up and pull the trigger. The only real cost is a primer.

Thank you! That's what I thought, or had been led to believe here the other year reading but... now with the other good input, I'm curious: Is there a critical amount of whatever type powder (like 2400) that you should use in a 30-30 case? How much COW or Grits or whatever... If you add wax or soap plug, can that build too much pressure?

I thought I'd read to just stuff with cotton to keep it all in and hold gun vertical to fire?

Seemed simple enough, but the "devil is in the details" ...

I don't think I WANT to know how much Hydro dies would cost...not on SS retirement fixed income I don't!

[35remington]

My Contender barrel with brake shoots very well, and the 120 Hornady is a favorite. Recoil is about like a 9mm pistol.

The various sizing measurement tools are valuable for setting one's dies. Don't do like I did and undersize a case as part of my learning curve. The gun pops open when you do that......not good! I think highly of it as a good general purpose accurate cartridge in the Contender. I like it. Out of a handgun it is the barest hair more than a 25-35 in a carbine.

I also have a 20" 94 lever AE. Nice light recoiling deadly cartridge. An overdue test is with LVR in this cartridge. Still have a good supply of Nosler 120 flatpoint boattails, a small number of 130 Speers and a pretty fair number of 139 Hornadys.

For my own fireforming I did not begrudge the range trip as I have a lot of brass to form and it made the journey worthwhile. For some reason people like to gift me with a lot of 30-30 brass. With cast bullets much was learned even when forming cases. Staying away from gaschecked bullets helped with the cost but I learned less in so doing. Non check 7mm bullets are hard to find.

[Rompin Ruger]

35 Rem,

Thanks for your insights. Not trying to be a pin head on the range trip, but since I moved from PA to TN, in the area I now live, ranges are few and far between. I've gotten lucky to find a club within 15 miles of me, the only "club" in the whole county, the largest county in TN, guess not a lot of population . It is going to take me till near Spring to complete their "joining" process, so as stated above, Mid-Dec, I have knee replacement, so it'll be well into next Spring before a) I have a place to shoot and b) I can drive and get around. Ergo, the interest in something I could do sitting on the back deck since I'm in the county and can discharge a firearm, but no place to shoot repeatedly.

I have a bag of 30-30 already necked down that needs blown out and another bag full of other 30-30 needing done, if I want to shoot the 7-30.

I too had great success with the Single Shot pistol bullets in 120 on woodchucks, and shot a couple deer with the SS 130's (not HORNADY, but can't think who came out with those lighter jacket, specifically for SShots.) We got exceptional accuracy out to 400 with the 130's... then someone of the group eventually tried the 140 Ballistic Tip and found that even reducing powder charge behind the heavier 140's, they printed the same as the 130's... ?????

I think I have a box of factory flat nose HStamped 7-30... but I'd not fired them off just for the brass yet... I'd reloaded many times without any cracked necks or other issues, my prior fire formed cases, also using cast GC I got cheap years ago, but those bullets are gone now.

So the range trip isn't just being lazy, but more of a challenge till next Spring and I thought I could do some and prep and fire form on the deck as my rehab progressed and we had a nice day or two this winter.

[garandsrus]

Load 6gr Red Dot or another fast powder. Then fill the case up to the neck with Cream of Wheat. Stuff a small piece of toilet paper in the neck to somewhat keep things from spilling out. Point the rifle up, chamber the round, pull the trigger. Eject the brass and see how it looks. You could increase the powder a little, but you probably won't need to.

The fire forming will still be loud, so wear ear and eye protection and watch where the muzzle is pointed.

Load one round and give it a try!

[Rompin Ruger]

Places to buy powder here are slim to non existent...hour drive opens a few pricey options. I've got Unique, 2400 (some that came in a square tin container that is way old I'd like to use up), so would that work...

Loud, huh? I'd rather not upset the neighbors, as while technically legal in the county to shoot, I'm not "technically" 100 yards from all neighbors... No sense creating issues, huh? We need all the "friends" we can get at this time.

Good to have options though... Thanks!

[35remington]

Unique will do the job.