Clays in a .45 ACP

[cpaspr]

Several years ago I loaded up about 700 rounds of .45 ACP with a 200gr LSWC over 4.0 of Clays. Also a similar number of 200gr plated round nose over the same load.

Shot up all of the LSWC rounds over the years, and about half of the round nose rounds. Most out of a Ruger P90, with maybe 100 or so out of a Blackhawk. Never a problem.

I've recently acquired my first 1911, an RIA. I'm finding that the rounds are varying widely. Most shoot fine, but yesterday I had two failures to even operate the slide and two or three failures to fully eject (slide closed on the ejected case (not a stovepipe, the shell was in the same position as when in the chamber). Those four or five, plus several others that did run the slide had definite lower recoil impulses. One of the failures to eject was so weak that I thought it might be a squib (it wasn't, barrel was clear).

I believe my reloading procedure is sound. I load up 40-50 cases with powder, manually weighing every tenth load, and use a bright light to scan all cases in the loading block for consistent powder levels before I add bullets and seat. Taper crimp to about .469".

When I first got the RIA, I had a gunsmith replace the GI sights with sights I could actually see. He shot it with ammo I provided, as well as some of his own. He told me my loads needed more powder. I had never had that problem before with these loads, but after shooting them in the RIA, I could see why he said that. Some (but not all) of them definitely feel light. The rounds I initially gave him were not crimped as heavy. I increased the crimp on his recommendation.

Is Clays a position sensitive powder?

[wddodge]

I've ran literately thousands of 235 gr ltc over 3.9 gr of Clays shooting IDPA over the last 10 years without a problem. These were mostly thru a Springfield loaded and a Kimber Custom. If you don't want to up the charge a tenth or two I'd put about a 2 lb lighter recoil spring in it .

Denny

[cpaspr]

Denny - As I mentioned earlier, I had no indications of problems when shooting in the P90 or the Blackhawk. Only in the RIA. The recoil spring is allegedly already at 12#.

[RKJ]

i shoot that load out of a GM & a Officers Model with no problems. They both have the standard springs. I'd change out the recoil spring and try it again.

[BNE]

My "go to load" in 45ACP is 230 grain bullet and 4.0 grains of Clays. I have shot thousands of them in my full size Kimber. I don't think there is a problem with that load.

[guncheese]

ive shot lots of 3.2 to 3.6 gr clays under a 200gr swc
i dont think its your ammo causing your issue

[triggerhappy243]

I had the same issues with my S.A loaded. I used Universal clays, and i got peppered with powder flakes with every round.

[NC_JEFF]

Friend of mine had similar trouble with some reloads I had made for him for his 45 ACP, every 4th-5th round not ejecting. I took the gun and shot 20 or so rounds without issue. He wasn't controlling the gun properly. I demonstrated to him how I hold the 45, especially how I don't allow my wrist to roll during recoil and he hasn't had a "fail to eject" with any of those rounds since. This may or may not help but I've always known that lighter loads in a 45 Auto require a very solid shooting platform. Hotter loads will usually blow the slide back, masking wrist roll that prevents light loads from cycling. If this doesn't help you may have to pull those rounds and increase the amount of powder.

[pmer]

I'd be tempted to try a heavier load and see how the RIA performs. Maybe it needs a couple hundred rounds through it too.

[N21911S]

"Universal Clays" is not the same powder as "Clays".........Universal is slower. Confusing the two is not a good thing.

[cpaspr]

I'll double check my grip, but the gunsmith who put the sights on it who told me my rounds were too light in this gun is an NRA Bullseye high master shooter (whatever the top ranking is), and he's built guns for national champions. My grip might be an issue, but I doubt his was.

[Geezer in NH]

YOUR reloads don't work shoot them in the guns that they work in.

Make new load for new gun SIMPLE answer These do not, keep records.

Who knows whats wrong or what the loads from a few years ago are. I cannot recall mine without looking in extensive records kept.

[cpaspr]

Geezer -
I know exactly what the loads from 2009 are. I put a label on each box of 50 when they're assembled: bullet weight, shape and configuration; gr of powder and which one; date assembled.

I've just never seen anything like this before. I've got .308 rounds that I loaded 20 years ago that will still go right where I'm aiming every time. Same with some .38 Specials from 10 years ago. But these .45 ACPs? Nope. They used to be very consistent. Now, not so much.

[NC_JEFF]

I thought the grip idea was a stretch but thought it worth a mention since I've witnessed good results from a simple grip modification. Prob gonna need to pull those bullets if the gun doesn't "loosen up" after a reasonable break in period.
Have you tried them in another pistol, should be able to find someone willing to try them in their 45.

[35remington]

Too bad a chronograph was not present to resolve the issue.

FWIW, 4 grains of Clays (not Universal Clays) is enough to reliably cycle my 16 lb sprung Colts with small radius stops, which are stiffer to operate than your gun most likely. Be sure you do not have some ridiculous spring weight in the gun by mistake. 16 lb is plenty even for full power ball.

[cpaspr]

Sorry all, omitted one piece of information that might matter. The RIA was not new. It was a 2011 (oops - not 1911) model, but I don't think it had been shot much. The 12# spring weight is what the gunsmith told me. I did not measure it myself.

[rsrocket1]

If you suspect the round, go back to your P90 or Blackhawk and shoot 50 from each. If they feel weak, it's the loaded cartridge. If they feel the same as before, it's the 1911 or the way you are hold it. The gunsmith has no point of reference with your loads other than they feel "weak" compared to what he is used to. 4g Clays under a 200g bullet is a lite load, but I've shot 3g under a 230g bullet and they all cycled fine. I deliberately loaded these light and that's exactly what I got.

[paul h]

I would break down a couple of the loads to see if the powder shows any signs of deterioration. Powder generally will be good for decades, but sometimes a combination of moisture, temperature, bullet lube, dissimilar metals can lead to the powder deteriorating.

[Virginia John]

Just load up a new batch and have at it.

[cpaspr]

I have 300 loaded rounds left, with 45-50 unloaded bullets. I'll check them through the P90. Didn't notice any problems with the Blackhawk, but there's not much to go wrong there, compared to the semis. I really don't want to pull them. That's just too much time with the kinetic puller.

After these are gone I'll be making and loading 230RN and 200SWC bullets (Lyman 452374 and 452460 molds). Those both shot fine out of the RIA with 5.5gr of Unique.

[Mark454]

If you suspect the round, go back to your P90 or Blackhawk and shoot 50 from each. If they feel weak, it's the loaded cartridge. If they feel the same as before, it's the 1911 or the way you are hold it. The gunsmith has no point of reference with your loads other than they feel "weak" compared to what he is used to. 4g Clays under a 200g bullet is a lite load, but I've shot 3g under a 230g bullet and they all cycled fine. I deliberately loaded these light and that's exactly what I got.
This. See if they feel/act funny in your P90. You need a "control" to this experiment. 4.0 clays is my go to load as well. Even under a 255 lswc [emoji33]

[jaysouth]

Install a 16 lb. spring. I have shot thousands of 200 gr. SWCs over 3.8-4.0 grs. Clays in Sigs, a Glock and a slew of 1911s. Nary a bobble.

If the 16 lb. spring works, find a new gunsmith.

[Pitchnit]

Plunk check OK?

[Mark454]

Plunk check OK?
**I'd hope any handloader loading for a 1911 did the plunk check when they set up the seat/crimp die.

Maybe I'm wrong to assume this...

[cpaspr]

Define "plunk test". I think I know what is meant, but please confirm.

[rsrocket1]

Define "plunk test". I think I know what is meant, but please confirm.
Here's a link to a good explanation

http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

[cpaspr]

Yep, that's what I thought you meant. I plunk test every single round (For peace of mind. It's a long story).

[LabGuy]

I have a Springfield Armory 1911, I bought in the 1980s backwhen Springfield first ventured into 1911s. I have reloaded for it for years, nice mild fun load, around 700fps. When SA came out the Range Officer a few years back, I had to get one. My lovely Wife Got me one for Christmas. Nice tight pistol, it would not function on my loads. I was disappointed with the first trip to the range with my new toy. I made up some "less" under powered loads, and no problem. So you might just need to bump your load up a bit, until things loosen up.