Rules on selling firearms and ammo

[BrentD]

Is there any location on this forum (or elsewhere) that has a concise and accurate description of the legalities of selling firearms and ammunition?

I ask because I have been approached by a friend to help sell a bunch of inherited long guns, handguns, and ammo. There is nothing even mildly unusual about the firearms. They are generic hunting longguns, revolvers and a few semiauto handguns that are nothing special.

I am pretty well versed with selling long guns on line via gunbroker and classifieds, but I know less about the handguns. I do know I can't ship handguns through USPS, and I believe I have to send them via an FFL unlike long guns. I know I can't ship ammo with guns and no ammo in USPS.

But I don't know diddly about the issues in places like NY, NJ, CA and other states that might have their own conniptions about a rifle or pistol. Are these even my problem, or are they the buyer's?

I find that a lot of a website forums contain a ton of contradictory "authoritative" answers, and I once went 10 rounds via phone and email with BATF over my ability to ship some firearm parts overseas (turns out BATF was zero say in that PERIOD the State Department controls that 100%) though BATF for the most part, doesn't actually know that. So, were does one get the REAL scoop on this issue?

[MrWolf]

I would make sure you also know the laws in the state you are shipping to. In NJ everything must go through an FFL (even antigues as C&R is not recognized) but we are allowed face to face with another NJ resident with a valid Firearms ID card for long guns only. We can't even have slingshots here :veryconfu. I believe if you shipped any firearm here and it did not go through an FFL you would be considered as breaking the law. Be careful.

[BrentD]

All of these rifles would go through and FFL on the receiving end. Every one of them. No matter which state. I already know that is required (none are antique or C&R).

[shooter93]

Brent....I'm not sure you can get a definitive answer. many people tell you that you can ship it but it has to go to an FFL on the receiving end. I help out some at a Gunsmiths shop and around here audits are common.....nothing to worry about but their goal they tell me is to be able to audit every FFL holder every 12 to 18 months. Any way at the last audit I asked the ATF agent about selling and shipping to other states. Any gun I have ever sold I have shipped FFL to FFL and I'm sure someone here will tell you the agent isn't correct but for me I just found it easier to do it that way. This is what I was told.....

The ATF considers every firearm sold through the internet, mail, national advertising etc. as an interstate sale and it must go from an FFL to another FFL to be picked up by the buyer only and doing all necessary required Federal and/or State background checks.

Again....just what I was told. The problem is there is too much individual interpretation in these things and you don't want caught up in any of that. Shipping here through an FFL isn't expensive.....free for me for helping out......so for me it isn't any trouble to do it that way.

[BrentD]

Shooter 93,
Thanks, but I know for absolute certainty that every gun doe not have to go FFL to FFL. Long guns do not (except maybe to California and hence my post here). I have done my homework on that too many times.

Gunshops make a good dime doing FFL transfers but not all of them are required.

I guess I'm going to have to slog through the BATF. I was hoping for a dependable summary somewhere but it seems unlikely.

Brent

[Hannibal]

If I were you, I would go thru an FFL in your state. Granted, the FFL might do something he/she shouldn't, but at least you can show you did the 'right' thing. Find the right one, and the fees should be worth the good night's rest. I can not imagine one conversation with an ATF agent that I would consider 'pleasant'. YMMV.

[BrentD]

I guess no one has the answer to the question I posed.

For all the complaining that people do about gun rights, the willingness to fold one's tent without exercising the rights one does have and just concede to throwing Grants at FFLs is ...

Anyway, I had hoped to find some folks that were knowledgeable. That didn't happen.

Thanks anyway. At some point I may post what I find out but is anyone here even willing to put such information to use?

[Hannibal]

My solution to your problem will ultimately be to obtain an FFL for myself once I open a business. In the meanwhile, I've a friend who takes care of these things for me for a nominal fee. If you're looking to save a few bucks, I don't think it's worth it. If you're trying to make a citizen's rights statement, then money is no object and I am interested in seeing how this works out for you. If you are looking for a straight answer, remember that an agency of the Federal Government is involved.

Again, YMMV.

[BrentD]

Do you never sell firearms for yourself? I have done it many times and found no problems. I buy many as well and I know, for the rules for the rifles I traffic in. Now, I need to expand my knowledge base and I had hoped to do that here.

[tazman]

Unfortunately I live in Illinois where the rules are some of the most draconian in the nation(thanks Chicago). I have no idea what the rules are anywhere else. Any out of state sales from here must go through a FFL. We are now required to do background checks for any transaction at all, for any weapon, even face to face, excepting only sales directly to an FFL holder.
I would happily use any info I could get to do things differently.

[Hannibal]

I'm not trying to be adversarial here. Yes, I have sold firearms before. And if I feel I am not in a black-and-white area, then I call my FFL buddy.

I'm just an average citizen who dislikes fines and the idea of a jail cell. If that means paying a few bucks, so be it.

One more time, YMMV.

[BrentD]

I'm a pretty average citizen to likes to exercise my rights and that can easily be done without risk of jail or fines. But, as with anything, it does require learning, which is what I'm trying to do.

[Hannibal]

I've tried to unwind this tangled web myself. One day, I will have to become a master of it, as I feel my responsibility as an FFL holder requires it. In the meanwhile, I defer to current FFL holders.

That's all I am trying to say.

[scottfire1957]

I guess no one has the answer to the question I posed.

For all the complaining that people do about gun rights, the willingness to fold one's tent without exercising the rights one does have and just concede to throwing Grants at FFLs is ...

Anyway, I had hoped to find some folks that were knowledgeable. That didn't happen.

Thanks anyway. At some point I may post what I find out but is anyone here even willing to put such information to use?



Yes, there are websites you can visit to find the information you seek.

BATFE has a website with the info you want.

UPS and Fedex also, for shipping handguns and rifles. USPS for shipping rifles.

I do not know specific answers to your questions. Do some research, make some phone calls. Figure it out.


Eta: firearms are shipped every day. Call a distributor or three.

[BrentD]

Thanks Scott. That is what I was trying to do. I just started at the wrong place.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think you will find the answer varies state to state.
It's not that anyone here, knows or doesn't know...how can anyone know each state's rules?

Many times, I've seen a gun for sale online, and the seller includes the line, "your FFL must be willing and able to receive a gun shipment from a non-FFL".

Good luck on your research.

[NavyVet1959]

Is there any location on this forum (or elsewhere) that has a concise and accurate description of the legalities of selling firearms and ammunition?

I suspect that one of the problems you are going to encounter is that things vary by the location of the seller and the purchaser. Of course, all these infringements are unconstitutional, but do you have the money to fight it? If it makes you feel any better, if I'm on your jury, I'll vote to acquit. As far as I'm concerned there are no "illegal" gun transfers, purchases, or possessions since the very concept is a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

You don't even bother to list your location in your profile. Maybe if you did, someone would be willing to chime in with their experiences.

[Tatume]

The OP already acknowledged that he has to ship to an FFL. The answer to the question "must I ship from an FFL?" is a matter of state law. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see where BrentD ever provided his state of residence.

[Wayne Smith]

Face to face long guns is legal within and between contiguous states - I believe that is Federal law. Anything else between states requires an FFL. State law can add to that - i.e. NJ and IL already mentioned. Any of the shippers can give you chapter and verse for shipping beyond that. I believe it is also on Gunbroker.com.

[44man]

I shipped a rifle to an FFL holder and did not have his number. The lady at UPS went out of her way for me, called the gunsmith and had the number faxed to her.
So all I know about it is if you ship, it must go to an FFL and must be included with the package. Anything shipped to you has to go to an FFL, I don't know how factories send you repaired guns. They go direct to you, maybe because they already went through the system.

[imashooter2]

Anything interstate has to go through an FFL. You may legally ship to an FFL, but many will only accept packages shipped from an FFL. The list of firearms banned in this state or that is exceedingly complex. You need to research each state individually as required. Shipping to an FFL in that state will ensure that you don't break the law, but if you ship something that can't be transferred at the destination, you will incur costs to have it shipped back. Within your own state, selling to other residents of your state, your state laws prevail.

[44man]

Where has freedom gone? When a kid I bought revolvers through the mail. My first .44 Flat Top was from Klein's Sporting Goods in CHI. Send a check and wait. Anticipation was a way of life. Then the mail man brought it. Many of my guns were bought that way.
I am self taught for safety, my father knew nothing. I had a BB gun first when very young and learned to never damage anything or point at anyone. Things went soon to the Ruger Mark I and rifles to the .300 Weatherby without more then paper rout money. Anything I wanted from Avon Hardware. No paper work at all. The world is now full of crazies that will get a full auto to kill. But liberals want my guns thinking I am a problem.
Paris is the example to the world what gun control does. They should make a sign as big as the Eiffel tower that says "gun free country."
Imagine if all had guns, the creeps would not enter. Israel has it right, school girls have full auto rifles.
Some around here have been stolen from but nobody comes here because I shoot on my range all the time. No druggy in town will dare come here. I can leave my doors open and stuff in the yard.
Guns are FREEDOM for the law abiding. Creeps can still get them but fear an armed citizen, they are cowards and the real nut cases think they will get 72 virgins if they die for a false God until they find all virgins are MEN with propane torches.
Black lives matter so why are all killed criminals and blacks kill each other more then anything? Need a big, fast boat to take them back out of here. Now they want to let in terrorists.
Vote for Hillary.
The only thing I know is you all agree with me and are true Americans. I want freedom back.

[BrentD]

44man,
I'm not interested in setting precedence in the SCOTUS. I am simply asking what are the current rules and regulations regarding these sorts of sales. I don't really care about your politics. Just want some current facts.

Plenty of people are selling firearms on Gunbroker and a dozen other outlets. Obviously, this is quite legal when done correctly.



PS. You haven't noticed apparently, Israel has more than its share of "creeps," guns or not.

[bedbugbilly]

And however/whatever you end up doing to dispose of them . . . keep good records and serial numbers . . even if you go through a FFL to a FFL . . . I'm a stickler on that . . . you never know what could come back on you later so just document what you do.

And . . if Hillary gets in . . . well, I won't go in to that. :-)

[BrentD]

Yes, keeping track of the numbers is always a good idea.

Later today or tomorrow, I will call the Des Moines Field office of the BATF. Meanwhile from other sources I have found rules on ammo and even a helpful key to determining what is bad or good in CA. This is the sort of info I was looking for: http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi?No=No&qq=1

If Hillary gets in I doubt a damn thing happens. She has to contend with a very unfriendly House and Senate and SCOTUS.

Besides, Hillary ain't gettin' in.

[mdi]

I guess no one has the answer to the question I posed.

For all the complaining that people do about gun rights, the willingness to fold one's tent without exercising the rights one does have and just concede to throwing Grants at FFLs is ...

Anyway, I had hoped to find some folks that were knowledgeable. That didn't happen.

Thanks anyway. At some point I may post what I find out but is anyone here even willing to put such information to use?
I have only been concerned with the laws of where I'm living at the time, and don't pretend to be an expert on gun laws nation wide. In CA the firearm must be handled through a FFL dealer. 99% of the out of state purchased I've made the sender was an FFL dealer sending to my designated FFL dealer. The CA FFL dealer was responsible for background checks, waiting periods, etc. Up until six years ago (when I escaped CA) I got C&A deliveries straight to my home. I've only had two guns delivered from out of state since I've been in Oregon and that was handled by an FFL on both ends for one and the background check was handled here, and the other was an M1 from CMP and they did all the checks from the paperwork/information I supplied and it was sent to my home.

Not living in a few select cities, Los Angeles being one, I got ammo sent to my home via UPS and Fed-Ex with no problems nor Hazmat. Oregon is the same, not via USPS but through UPS or Fed-EX, no restrictions.

Instead of criticizing us for not helping you with state by state gun laws, look for yourself...https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=Gun+laws+state+by+state&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-004 Or did you just fold your tent, slink away in the night, and ask us?

[BrentD]

No slinking here. I have been finding many other places that were much more helpful however (see previous post). the website you listed is, of course, just a yahoo search and not much more helpful than a google search.

But thanks for your time. Your experiences in CA are helpful and I appreciate your relating them.

[HATCH]

I can't tell you the laws in your state. I can tell you the laws in mine.
If the weapon goes across state lines then it MUST go to a FFL holder on the receiving end.
This is regardless of if it is a handgun or a long gun.

Federal law states only FFL holders can ship handguns via the USPS.
You can ship long guns via USPS.

Now UPS and FEDEX ask that you send handguns via Overnight Air. This is not a Federal law but more of a rule of the carriers themselves.
Now I have shipped handguns via UPS Ground before with no problems. It was only 1 day away anyway.
UPS/FEDEX require that you notify them that you are shipping a firearm.
I have a UPS daily pickup account. I have NEVER notified them of any item I have shipped. Guns included.

Now, Ammunition.
Loaded ammo isn't a hazardous item. It can be shipped via common carrier (UPS/FEDEX) but you should mark the package ORM-D
I have shipped ammo cans with reloaded ammo to my dad (in state) with UPS ground before.
Ammo CAN NOT be shipped USPS.

[BrentD]

Thanks Hatch. The UPS/Fed Ex stuff is very helpful.

I shipped ammo twice via FedEx and had to do the ORM-D thing, once was to myself, c/o someone else. But it wasn't to one of the crazy places.

Thanks again.

[tmc-okc]

BrendT, I am going to try to help but first allow me to say this: I make my living in the retail shipping business. I have accounts with UPS, FedEx, DHL, USPS, a host of Regional carriers and a whole passel of LTL carriers. I have been in this business over 20 years. I ship firearms weekly.
This is the BATF website - do your own research. I guarantee you will learn a lot.
ATFB Official website


https://www.atf.gov/ (https://www.atf.gov/)
Here is what I would advise- FedEx Express or FedEx Ground are the carrier of choice for me. UPS will not allow a 3rd party retail shipper (that is me) to ship firearms nor will UPS allow their branded franchise locations ( The UPS Stores) to ship firearms - per their tariff's. Why ? UPS believes there is just too much room for theft !! You can ship firearms via UPS but you will have to present the package at their local UPS terminal.
This is the FedEx Tariff - you will have to cut & paste http://images.fedex.com/us/services/pdf/Service_Guide_2015.pdf
Never, under any circumstance ship a firearm to anyone other than an FFL. How do you know if the receiver is an FFL -- Require the FFL to fax you a copy of his FFL - they do this all the time. Keep the copy for your records for at least 8 years. Better check to see if he still is an FFL --
FFL EZ CHECK -
https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck (https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck)
There are several reasons for this ( 1 ) you are required by law to know the state, city and local laws regarding firearms - You don't !! But the FFL will. Talk to the FFL about what you are shipping before you ship the firearm.
(2) It is unlawful for you to ship firearms to anyone under 21 years of age. You must require FedEx to place an ADULT SIGNATURE REQUIREMENT on the package at the time you ship it. Otherwise you could be in a real legal jam when the firearm is used in a robbery and someone is killed and you wind up in a Civil Suit. Can they really trace that firearm back to you. You damn right they can !!
Do not address your package to "Joe's Gun Shop " as this puts a flag in the label that your package contains a firearm. Address the package to the individual listed on the copy of the FFL that you received.
As another poster has stated -- yess, you CAN ship handguns via FedEx Ground but let me assure you, you will only do this until FedEx catches up with you or your package disappears in transit and you have to file a lost package claim. Then when they deny the claim because the tariffs were violated and you lose a $600 firearm right then and there with NO recourse of any kind. Go ahead & file a lawsuit on FedEx. You will lose that lawsuit in a heartbeat ! FedEx wins ever dang one of them.
Insurance - FedEx and all the carriers call it Declared Value (DV) Protection because most of them are not licensed in any state to sell insurance therefore they will not call it INSURANCE. So, for a nominal fee over the normal shipping charges they will provide carriage of your package with a Declared Value (DV) in excess of the nominal $100 DV required by the DOT for FedEx to operate. That "nominal fee" increases with the value you place on the firearm. Most carriers will wiggle their way out of a high value claim on a firearm due to other statements within their tariffs regarding High Value items. Try to find another way to insure the package while in transit. Research your Home Owners insurance policy. Some will insure firearms in transit.
UPS, FedEx and USPS are not your friends when it comes to shipping firearms and will do everything they can to discourage it. FedEx, UPS & USPS are NOT you friends when you have to make a claim for anything - Lost in transit, Damaged in transit, etc.
Take photos of the firearm as you package it so you can prove the firearm was properly packaged. Package it so you can throw the package 20 - 30 feet and be assured it will be OK. We do it all the time.
NO Ammo with any firearm !!
You can ship ammo by itself...
About 3 months ago an illegally shipped handgun discharged in a USPS processing plant. Luckily no one was injured as most workers were on break - LOL. The lady that shipped the handgun didn't know she was in violation of any laws and didn't know the 357 Mag. revolver was loaded. With the fine she received and the threat of prison time (suspended sentence) she will not do this again.
Regardless of which carrier you use to ship the firearm make damn sure you tell the carriers representative that the package contains a firearm. If you have to file a claim that is going to be the very first thing the carrier will use to deny the claim is that they were not properly informed as their tariffs require - end of your lawsuit if you didn't notify the carriers rep...
Good luck. Do you research. Know the carriers rule, regulations and tariffs ! Know the law.

Ron H

[NuJudge]

The only 100% legal way to sell a substantial number of firearms is through a FFL.

[BrentD]

thanks Ron, I know most of this as i have shipped rifles by all three carriers many times. As I stated several times above, I know I have to ship to an FFL. I would like to avoid shipping handgun or ammo that is not legal to some FFL where the merchandise has to be returned.

I know how to pack things. I've shipped $7k rifles w/o incident (knocking on wood right now), and I know that I can't count on any shipper to be "my friend" in the event of damage - not that it matters if it is a firearm. That is true if it is a jar of honey or a book (things I have shipped recently).

From other sources, I now know the California rules on assault rifles (not applicable here), ammo, handguns and sundry other issues. That was the type of info I wanted when I started the thread. I would like to know the same for NY, NJ in particular as well, but I'll find that shortly as I continue to do my research. In the end, I don't think this will be too complicated. I would like to not categorically withhold legal purchases from people who have to live in such hell holes as they probably are in greater need than most people elsewhere.

Thanks,
Brent

[BrentD]

The only 100% legal way to sell a substantial number of firearms is through a FFL.
What is substantial? 5? 15? Per year?

And how can I possibly complain about losing gun rights if I don't actually exercise the ones I do have? There is a legal way to sell these firearms. As I noted above, all have to be received by an FFL but for certain, not all have to originate with one. It is still legal for private citizens to sell firearms and intend to exercise that right - legally.

[NavyVet1959]

If you want to thumb your nose at the ATF, then just sell all the firearms FTF in Iowa where you are apparently located and don't require a bill of sale. That'll show 'em! :)

If you want a larger potential customer base, then you will have to play the FFL / ATF games. :(

[Elkins45]

Face to face long guns is legal within and between contiguous states - I believe that is Federal law. Anything else between states requires an FFL. State law can add to that - i.e. NJ and IL already mentioned. Any of the shippers can give you chapter and verse for shipping beyond that. I believe it is also on Gunbroker.com.

Sorry, this is wrong. ALL transfers between private parties across state lines are illegal except for very limited circumstances like inheritance or gifts. Contiguous states has nothing to do with it. If a firearm crosses state lines it must pass through the hands of an FFL, whether it is a long gun or a handgun.

The contiguous states thing used to be that you could buy a long gun from a FFL in only your contiguous states but that went away. Now you an buy long guns from a FFL in any state.

[44man]

I can tell you why next day air is required now. I worked for an airline, UAL, and all high value shipments were locked up until they were to be loaded. We got huge shipments of guns. Then when they arrived, guns were missing. No, employees could not be trusted.
It was so bad that a few supervisors would oversee cart loading and follow the cart to the plane to find some missing from the shipment. Now that is pure magic!
There were some employees that rifled bags in airplane pits. I would not tolerate that stuff being a lead. Customer property is SACRED! If a bag breaks, call the supervisor to notify the passenger and fix the bag. Even bring the passenger down on the ramp.
My morals are above reproach.
Maybe you see me as political but politicians have been the curse of freedom after the crimes I have seen. They want to regulate all for the misdeeds of a few.
After 9-11 when security went crazy, I had my fork and nail clippers removed from my lunch bucket. 42 years with the airline to be treated like dirt. I am sure I was no danger to anyone and had great respect for those on the planes that paid my wages.
You make fun of politics but you need to live through the changes. The FFL stuff is pure politics.
They catch felons committing crimes with guns against federal law and do not prosecute. Liberals feel sorry for the criminal. They actually want them to promote more gun laws.
You live in states that all have different laws but you will never have your vote count when you see a SNAP card used at check out. Those on the dole buy steaks I can't even look at.
If you don't think politics affect your gun rights, you live in a funny place.
How to take guns from the crazy or criminals, you can't, they are smarter then our president. so he wants all guns taken. then like Hitler did, we are sheeple.
I thought all of you here had common sense. Who did you vote for in your state? Maybe not and is why I feel my vote is wasted. I would vote for a frog if he was republican.

[David2011]

If I were you, I would go thru an FFL in your state. Granted, the FFL might do something he/she shouldn't, but at least you can show you did the 'right' thing. Find the right one, and the fees should be worth the good night's rest. I can not imagine one conversation with an ATF agent that I would consider 'pleasant'. YMMV.


I guess no one has the answer to the question I posed.

For all the complaining that people do about gun rights, the willingness to fold one's tent without exercising the rights one does have and just concede to throwing Grants at FFLs is ...

Anyway, I had hoped to find some folks that were knowledgeable. That didn't happen.

Thanks anyway. At some point I may post what I find out but is anyone here even willing to put such information to use?

Brent,

I believe Hannibal gave you a correct answer. An individual may ship a firearm directly to a gunsmith or manufacturer for repair without going through any FFL with the expectation that it will be returned to the address from which it was mailed (owner's return address.) If I understand the BATFE manual ( I have an FFL and have read it cover to cover) then a firearm had to be shipped from an FFL in your state to an FFL in the state of the recipient. The recipient must complete the normal 4473 and possibly a background check. You could check with the receiving FFL holder and see if he is required in his state to receive firearms from an individual or if you have to go through an FFL licensee. There is a mix of Federal and State law that affects a correct answer here. I say "possibly" on the background check because in some states the possession of a concealed carry permit allows the purchaser and dealer to bypass the background check.

I currently live in New Mexico but have a Texas CHL. I can and have walked into a dealer in Texas and bought a long gun by filling out the 4473, show my CHL, pay for the firearm and leave with it in hand.

David

[Elkins45]

You can walk into any state in the union and buy a long gun from a FFL. Handguns in your home state only unless they are shipped to a FFL in your home state to complete the transfer.

[Mumblypeg]

Yes, keeping track of the numbers is always a good idea.

Later today or tomorrow, I will call the Des Moines Field office of the BATF. Meanwhile from other sources I have found rules on ammo and even a helpful key to determining what is bad or good in CA. This is the sort of info I was looking for: http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi?No=No&qq=1

If Hillary gets in I doubt a damn thing happens. She has to contend with a very unfriendly House and Senate and SCOTUS.

Besides, Hillary ain't gettin' in.

Yeah.... well we said the same thing about Bill..... and Obama....

[mdi]

FWIW, I think it's kinda silly, and dangerous, to rely on anonymous forum members' opinions/information for legal advice on firearm shipping...

[BrentD]

FWIW, I think it's kinda silly, and dangerous, to rely on anonymous forum members' opinions/information for legal advice on firearm shipping...

Agreed. Sadly, it can also be silly and dangerous to rely on the BATF as I found out a year ago. Many of them do not know even what falls in their jurisdiction and what doesn't.

[Geezer in NH]

What is this make controversy dude??? You have been given info don't like it apply and get your own FFL and go for it.

Set others up for wrong unknown info?? Why??

Want real time answers on the shipping laws? Hire a lawyer.

[BrentD]

Huh? geezer, you seem to be in your cups. None of that applies here.

[Hannibal]

Actually, I think the advice has been repeated several times now from several different sources. If you disagree with what has been submitted in this thread, then you need to try asking in a different place.

Again, not trying to be confrontational, but it would seem you have already made up your mind about how you think this works, and are on a fishing expedition for someone to agree with you. (?).

[NavyVet1959]

Want real time answers on the shipping laws? Hire a lawyer.

And then you can pay him to give you whatever answer you wanted in the first place.

The only answer that would really count would be the answer from the person / agency that is likely to be prosecuting you. Unfortunately, with something like the ATF, you can ask multiple people and get multiple answers.

Just remember...

"The government has a lot more money to make your life miserable than you do to make its life miserable."

and...

"What the government doesn't know is unlikely to hurt you."

[BrentD]

Hannibal, luckily, I did ask in other places, and I got a few much better replies. My original question was, "Is there any location on this forum (or elsewhere) that has a concise and accurate description of the legalities of selling firearms and ammunition?", and effectively, the answer seems to be no, though most responders answered other questions not asked or told me things I had already noted. I appreciate you concern about my fishing luck, but you are simply wrong, since agreeing or disagreeing isn't the motivation of the thread or even remotely related to the original post. I'm looking for information that is credible, and I have not found it here. Simple as that. As I posted above, I did get some good information, particularly about CA and I posted some of that above for others. If you think that is trolling for a fight or some such, so be it. Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

[dondiego]

Where do you live???????

[NavyVet1959]

Where do you live???????

A little web searching seems to indicate that he lives in Iowa.

[BrentD]

Yup. Iowa.

[cajun shooter]

BrentD, I'm a former Police Officer, Firearms Instructor, Armorer of several brand guns and a Former FFL holder of 15 years. I also worked as a Gun Store manager for a number of years and I sold guns under the owner's Class 3 license.
If you wish to dine on good steak, it's advisable to go to a well known steak house and not the local chicken diner. That is not meant as an attack on your posting but you have asked the general population of a cast bullet forum for advise on shipping firearms that are regulated by Federal Law and that even trumps State Law. You then in a roundabout way criticize the members for the answers they gave to you. I'm quite sure that every answer was given with the best knowledge that the poster knows. Unless you direct this question to the proper authority and that does not mean a FFL holder but the ATF FFL License Bureau themselves. They will supply all of the books that contain the laws of sale, shipping and receiving. They send updates to the FFL holders every year, at least they did when I had mine in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.
There is one law that all people should pick up in life, if you ask 12 different people which is the best way to do something, you will receive 12 different answers. Before I finished my police training we learned that you go to the main source first, that way you only have that person to go back to if something goes wrong.
The shipping of hand guns has become very expensive because of employee theft. I lost many shipments of handguns because of the way the companies once shipped them. They had labels that read Dave's Guns, Firearms Inc. and so on. If you look at the labels, that has changed. The gun companies for the most part will not ship by UPS or Fed-X on Fridays because they know that the guns will set in a company lot over the weekend. Theft is the reason that the USPS does not take handguns. I can show you two USPS Office's branches that will not accept any long guns at all. They are run by Post Masters that will not even read the postal service rules of gun shipments that I tried to show them. I wrote letters to both of the bosses, but I never received an answer. Good Luck with your research, David

[shooter93]

Like I said Brent....you can't get definitive answer here. I posted what I was told by an ATF agent and you ask another one and you'll probably get a different answer. Sort of like dealing with the IRS...whose interpretation are we using today?????? The problem will only arise should something "go wrong or haywire" with a sale and someone starts asking questions. Then it becomes....I was told this by an agent or I read this at the ATF site and then it is a matter of whether or not they simply say.....sorry....you're wrong or were told something incorrect. Then the real "fun" starts. I think the safest way is to ship from one FFL to another FFL. I have been told different ways of shipping by different people including ATF agents that FFL to FFL seems the easiest and safest to me. The final decision is yours and I wish you luck and smooth sailing in all the sales.