Unobtrusive Woods Companion, Your Suggestions

[Landy]

Thinking of something to serve in the old kit gun role but with a bit more authority for pests, no matter their number of legs.

I'm currently thinking that a 38+p or 357 small frame with real sights and 3" to 5" barrel is the best fit, and I'm open to suggestions of which of these you'd pick.

I've no experience with Charter Arms, but should their 44 and new 45 bulldogs be in the running because they start with a '4' - always nice for peace of mind?

Maybe I'm all wet, and you would suggest something else, entirely.

[Outpost75]

A 4" .357 will be perfect for this role.

[jmort]

"Real Sights"

I would probably get this SP101
http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/images/5771.jpg

[Landy]

I like the way you both think.

That SP 101 is my current top candidate, too.

An old 6" Security Six is, thus far, my all time favorite revolver, buying its little cousin there serious consideration.

[Zim]

J-frame smith is always nice. The model 69 is what I'm saving for but I've got the Security Six too. Very nice.
Load down the Model 69 44 mag to special loadings & will be the terror of the soda cans everywhere.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

SP 101 gets my vote too built like a tank but if i could have afforded it at the time i would have got this http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765498_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

[Ramjet-SS]

cZ 82 9x18 Mak

[paul h]

"Real Sights"

I would probably get this SP101
http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/images/5771.jpg

Really can't think of anything better. Strong enough to hold up to 357 mag loads, light enough to not notice packing it.

[Landy]

That M69 is VERY nice, but a bit more in every measure than I am thinking of.

[tazman]

I have a S&W model 60 3 inch barrel with adjustable sights that shoots extremely well. I am not good enough to hunt with it, but it would serve as pest repellent quite well. It is small and light enough to carry easily in a holster or larger pocket. Mine is 38 special but newer ones are available in 357.
Second choice would be a 4 inch K frame or the SP101.

[Landy]

...light enough to not notice packing it.

That's the key for me. A number of guns have been tried in this role, but my failing is that if I'm not actively using them and they've much weight or bulk by day two or three I'm leaving them behind.

[jmort]

I had two .357 SP101s and sold them as they were too heavy for easy carry and too light, for me, to shoot full-power .357 loads.
This LCR +P .38 is a great option. I have a .357 LCR and what a great trigger. 15 ounces fits the bill:

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/images/5431.jpg

[Groo]

Groo here
S&W m60 pro.
3in, adj sights,SS,357mag .
Light , thin , and if you get grips that fit you, 357 power.
I have one and have shot up to 180gr 357mag "Groo Monster Maulers"

[Blackwater]

A really good trail/walkabout/companion piece is a single action .357 or even a .44 Special like the new Flat Top Rugers. They're very easy to carry, come out of a standard strap holster like the Bianchi #1 and similar very easily, reliably and quickly, and nothing is faster for a first shot. This can be important if you're attacked from cover, as with bears, but wild dogs, coyotes, mountain lions and 2-legged men have been known to do this. The SA's are accurate, strong, tough, hard to break and put out of action, and they're usually darned accurate if you develop good loads for them.

They're really easy to live with, take little maintenance, and like a Timex, can take a licking and keep on ticking. I guess you can tell I really like them, so that makes me prejudiced, but I've carried them for a lot of years in preference to nicer guns, and they've always proven to be good friends afield. Just something to think about, at least.

[dragon813gt]

A 5" barreled revolver is not small nor light. And you're limited to only a few rounds. You can call it overkill if you wish. But I bought a Glock G20 for woods carry. 16 rounds of 10mm is a lot of firepower. And it carries better than a full size revolver for me.

I have a SP101 and hate the trigger on it. The pull isn't straight back. Combine that w/ the weight and grittiness and there are better revolvers available.

[Bigslug]

Nothing at all wrong with a 2" S&W 640 .357 for the role. Plenty of accuracy, plenty of power, plenty of small.

[Fishman]

Tazman and Groo mentoned the 3" model 60 and that has a lot of merit. Mine shoots way better than it ought to and is positively dainty compared to my 4" model 681 which I also enjoy immensely. While a high cap semi auto has plenty of merit, with a revolver one can have a shot load or two in the cylinder as well as solids.

[ReloaderFred]

For about 35 years I've carried a S&W 2 1/2" Model 66 .357 Magnum revolver when hunting, riding an ATV, or just messing around in the boondocks. With it, I've taken coyotes, rabbits and finished off an elk for another hunter. It's light, rugged and shoots really well.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Mica_Hiebert]

my 3" bbl sp101 has been my go to carry gun for about 4 years now and has worked great but I wanted a little more gun so I picked up a 4.2 inch gp100... if I wanted some thing feather weight I would get the new 3 inch LCRX but I keep holding out for one to come out in 357 instead of 38+p Im a ruger snob

[jmort]

"...holding out for one to come out in 357 instead..."

Me too. I would be the first buyer if I could.

[Ramjet-SS]

I would think that a SP101 in 327 federal would be dandy for the task being able to load mouse loads to a hyper speed self defense round. Easy to pack and easy to shoot.

[Mica_Hiebert]

same gun for same price in 357... just sayin

[GabbyM]

Last few years I've purchased several K frame S&W police trade in revolvers in 38 Special. Model 10 and 15's. Just a few years back they could still be had for under $300. May have to pay a little more now. The heavy barrel models seam to shoot quite a bit better than the standard weight barrels. My best shooter was an Australian turn in that had heavy carry use. Very old single serial number square but frame. Cleaned the rust off with some four 0 steel wool soaked in Ed's Red cleaner. Cold blues it with Oxpho Blue from Brownells and it looks good. Inexpensive set of Hogue grips lets me shoot it on double action. Used the Hogue finger grips on all of them. It and all the others will shoot groups onto a pie plate at 100 yards off hand. And I'm no champion level bull's-eye shooter by a long shot. With my double stack magazine 9mm's I just keep them on a pie plate at 25 yards. Used to have a single stack S&W 39-2 I could shoot but sold it. :violin:

Still my old favorite 9mm was never more than half as accurate as any of these old K frame Smiths. They are already broke in so carrying them around in the auto and through the woods does not worry me. Powerful accurate and cheap. I shoot 100gr soft TCFP, 148gr wad cutter, Magma 150gr TCFP and the NOE copy of Lyman 358429 weighing 177 grains and flying 890fps from the four inch barrel with a standard pressure load.

I don't recommend shooting any firearm without hearing protection. But in the real world it happens. 357 magnums will simply blow out your ears if shot without protection. They also have a tendency to blind you with white flashes in your eyes for several seconds if shot when your eyes are night adjusted. Been there and done that after putting down a sick German Shepard with a 357 mag. I just stood there hopping I didn't Muff the shot. 357's also make way to much noise to be considered unobtrusive.
I have a 357 and a 44 magnum. I may even carry one again if I go bear hunting once more.

[dilly]

I had two .357 SP101s and sold them as they were too heavy for easy carry and too light, for me, to shoot full-power .357 loads.
This LCR +P .38 is a great option. I have a .357 LCR and what a great trigger. 15 ounces fits the bill:

http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/images/5431.jpg

If you've never held this gun you won't believe how light it is.

I frequently carry the 4 inch SP101 in 327, and quite enjoy it.

You could always hunt down a 2-4 inch security six.

[rking22]

I started out with a SW 696,, really like it but is worth a bit much now to wade the creek with. Then a M36-6 3 inch J with sights, really like it too .. then I ran into a deal on a SP101 3 inch 327. Loaded to 1050fps or so with a 120 r boolit it shoots well, but not to the sights (making a new blade now). A new 4 inch version would be interesting but heavy. I like a 31-1 32 SWL too but probably not "enough gun" for some. Have sometimes carried a Beretta 84BB and a 2 inch M36 a lot, really something to be said for the 38Special, it really is! Presently , fitting your criteria, is Taurus 41Mag titanium. It is L frame size but J frame weight, and shoots a big boolit ! It has a short cyl and is rated to 210s at 1200fps by the factory. I load mine as a 41 Special with 230gr boolits at 975fps. Quite nice to carry in the woods and I can start off with 2 shot loads for the no legs then the 230s for the rest. Out of production but available, be careful of end play, I usderrstand they can be of highly dubious quality. I am happy with mine. The lower pressure loads are easier on the ears too. To be honest, I most often walk the woods with a J frame 22 clone or the 31-1 , nothing very big on the farm.
Go to the "41 mag and special thread" and look at the nice L frame 41 special just posted!!! They build GP100s in 6 shot 41 Special (no not Ruger.. YET) Clements custom guns :)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276144-41-magnum-special-data-center/page11

[Petrol & Powder]

I have to chime in here. I'm completely with GabbyM concerning the use of .357 mag. The 38 Special is a fine field cartridge and is more than enough cartridge for 99% of what a "kit gun" is called upon for.

To me a kit gun is relatively lightweight, very accurate, weather resistant, "packable", reliable and chambered in a cartridge that fills a broad range of applications from plinking to small game hunting. There are several guns that come to mind but a DA revolver in 38 Special always seems to fit that role well.
Stainless steel probably tops the list in meeting the weather resistant requirement. Robar's NP3 is very good as well. So is electroless nickel without the Teflon added. Some of the other less expensive finishes can work too.
As for barrel length, 4" is the maximum for a revolver when you take the "packable" requirement into account. I've been playing with DA revolvers for years and 6" tubes are for target guns and full blown dedicated hunting guns only.
I'm a big fan of the three inch barrel on a combat revolver but the 4" models offer the best compromise between sight radius and portability.
As for the chambering, a .357 mag could pull double duty as a self defense tool and still be capable of shooting 38 Special rounds for the fun stuff. However, the 38 Special is more than enough for the vast majority of kit gun tasks.

That leaves us with the question of the actual type of gun:

The J-frames can be had with alloy frames and longer barrels but I just don't feel there's a huge advantage to that smaller frame, smaller cylinder and longer barrel. The J-frame is a snub-nose platform to me. When you add a long barrel to one you might as well step up to a K-frame.

A tapered barreled Model 10 with a 4" barrel and a square butt would be fine except for the sights and the carbon steel construction. If you got a good shooter with a rough finish that was cheap, you could dump some money into a rust resistant finish and have a good candidate. Fixed sights can be very accurate but it they may limit you to only a few loads.

The lightweight Model 12 could be had with a 4" barrel but I think they all had fixed sights. If you added an NP3 finish to protect the steel parts that might be a cool kit gun but you'd have a lot of money tied up in it.

The SP101's with the longer tubes and adjustable sights come close but they are a bit heavy. They certainly fit the "durable" criteria.

A 4" stainless Security-six is a great gun but may be a bit heavy for that role as well.

The D-framed Colts are lighter/smaller that the S&W K-frames but good ones are expensive.

A 4" K-frame in 38 Special with a tapered barrel and adjustable sights would fill the role nicely. Make it a model 67 with adjustable sights and stainless steel construction and you would almost be in kit gun Nirvana.

[GabbyM]

Very well thought out Petrol&Powder:

I'd like to add. With my sixty year old eyes. The U notch model ten sight in the frame is the easiest for my eyes to focus on. Past 25 yards I'm far more accurate with the non adjustable M10 sight than any of my M-15 adjustable sight revolvers. Have three fixed sight M10's and they all shoot to point of aim with standard loads. Model tens are the only iron sights I own, rifle or hand gun, that I can still focus. Had to buy an $800 ACOG for my favorite AR-15 just to replace the peep sight that was MOA in my youth. ACOG works at night too however.

[Landy]

If this forum has a flaw it is that it is too good of a resource.

What a wealth of information; now, to digest it all and actually handle a few of the suggestions.

The two that have nearest fit for me thus far, failing by their weight, were a 4" S&W M19 and a Firestar M45.

That D-frame suggestion reminds me, that my Dad (38spcl) and Grandad (32-20) loved their smaller Colts for this sort of thing - common enough then, not so now.

[Lonegun1894]

I use a 4" Ruger Security Six in .357. Works great as a kit gun, but a bit heavier than some would like.

[stubbicatt]

I really like my 586 L-Comp. It really is the "Goldilocks gun." Not too big, not too small, not too weak, not too strong, just right! :)

You might give a look at one of them. I use it for CCW, and it carries nicely in a OWB holster as well. You can load your ammo to whatever performance level suits you, and it will do the job.

[Hickok]

If you can get somewhere and pick up and handle a S&W Model 60-15 with a 3 inch barrel, I bet you will walk out with it!

I really like mine, nice and light.

[Love Life]

I submit the following:

153069

[Hickok]

These are my .357 magnums and this may give you a better idea to the size. Top is S&W 686 6 inch, middle S&W Model 19 4 inch and bottom S&W Model 60-15 3 inch barrel.153070

[Hickok]

Lovelife is that a 4 inch Model 27? Beautiful revolver!

[Ramjet-SS]

I am not a 357 fan at all I think there are so many better choices. I know this is blasphemous be t I just do not warm up to the 357. In fact I would rather carry my Bond Arms 410/45 with 3.5 barrels than any of my 357s.

[Love Life]

I wish! It's a well worn model 28. I sent it off to BC Armory for the ultimate duty tune package. It is usually loaded with the Lyman 358429 over stout dose of unique or 2400 in 38 special brass. I carried it all over the Pine Nut and Sierra Nevada mountains. It is unobtrusive, easy to carry, accurate, and comforting. I used to carry it with 2 speed loaders of heavy reloads, and a box of powder puff loads for popping bunnies.

The 358429 is stable out to 100 yards and will keep 6 shots in 12 inches on a Echo Silhouette target.

I had a 586, but sold it because I preferred the balance of the 4 inch N-frame.

[Petrol & Powder]

Love Life, is that a model 28? or a 24?

Hickok - A model 60 with a 3" barrel and adjustable sights would certainly fit with "packable", weather resistant and lightweight. Definitely a contender for a kit gun.


GabbyM - I hear you loud and clear. The model 10 with the tapered barrel option is ubiquitous but often overlooked. I prefer fixed sights for their ruggedness (the majority of my revolvers have fixed sights by choice) and they are far more accurate than most gun store commandos will admit but sometimes your favorite load will not shoot to point of aim with them. The biggest mistake people make with adjustable sights is constantly playing with them. They should be set once to center the P.O.A. with the P.O.I. with your primary load and then left alone!

An inexpensive blued steel gun that shoots well could be made into an outstanding kit gun with the application of a rust resistant finish but the dollars add up quickly :sad:. If I had a rough looking 4" model 10 or model 15 that was tight and shot well I might consider NP3 to make it that perfect kit gun.

I prefer S&W and Ruger over Colt revolvers for reasons I will not go into on this thread but the Colt Police Positive Special does come in a bit lighter/smaller than a S&W K-frame. I don't think a D-frame Colt would be my choice for a kit gun unless I had one that was too ugly to sell and too accurate to leave home. Good Colt revolvers are just about in the collector's only category these days.

Edit - Love Life beat me to the post - model 28

[Love Life]

Weather resistant? All of my guns get a base layer of EEZOX, and the I apply light coat of Ben's Liquid Lube. I used to use renaissance wax, but BLL is easier. Also, a small gun maintenance kit can easily fit in a coat pocket.

If not doing multiday trips and long range hikes, then you should be able to clean the gun well enough at home.

[FergusonTO35]

Is an auto out of the question? Plenty of good choices there too. When I'm just out walking around I usually have my Glock 26. 10+1 rounds of 9mm with boolits, smaller and lighter than any of my wheelguns, and I shoot it well.

[ole 5 hole group]

Weather resistant? All of my guns get a base layer of EEZOX, and the I apply light coat of Ben's Liquid Lube. I used to use renaissance wax, but BLL is easier. Also, a small gun maintenance kit can easily fit in a coat pocket.

Haaa, Eezok, a mighty fine product. I purchased a quart of it a couple years back and found it to be a superb product, however, I have since found one just a bit better - called One Shot HD-Extreme.

As for a walk-about handgun for possible "pest control" - unless you are going to tot a set of ear muffs on your belt or plugs on a string around your neck, you should also consider the muzzle report of whatever handgun you choose. A 357 is one loud puppy. Nothing wrong with a 22lr for a caliber, as a walk-about and if you don't plan on shooting, just for the joy of shooting rocks etc while out & about and have the handgun mainly for protection against whatever, 22lr Stingers can take of business. If I don't plan on firing a shot but feel the need to carry - I'll take a 1911.;)

[scattershot]

I have really enjoyed my Charter Arms Bulldog over the last 30 years or so. Hardly know I'm wearing it, but it packs a pretty good punch. Fixed sights, but that's not a problem as far as I'm concerned, and may be a benefit. Mine has the 3" barrel, and the newer ones are available in stainless. If I were buying one today, I'd look hard at the 45ACP and .40 S&W chamberings.

good luck!

[paul h]

A 357 doesn't have to be loaded to the gills to be useful, and at 38 sp levels the report and blast and toned way down. 150-170 gr cast @ 1000 fps will handle most chores of a woods companion and won't make you deaf. I look at a 357 as a 38 sp that will never ever wear out.

[Landy]

I went and checked out a few:
S&W 60 nicest and sleekest and costliest $$.
R SP 101 best sights and a real 357 instead of a 38 and maybe a few, but a bit heavy.
R LCRx not pretty, but great on every other count.
ChA Bulldogs they only had the fixed sight ones, but when actually available the 45 one has real appeal - not many votes for them here though.

I think that I'll save til $$ doesn't veto the M60, and if the LCRx is in 357 and the Pitbull in 45 are by then out and in shops the race will be on.

[bedbugbilly]

A lost of excellent suggestions. I personally like a 3" for a woods/kit gun. I'm not hung up on +P or 357 - primarily because I normally carry a 38 spl. and that cartridge is just fine for my needs. I have a Smith Model 36 Snub and a Model 36 with a 3" barrel. I alternate for CCW with both depending on how I'm dressed. For woods/kit gun though - it's the 3" Model 36 that I always reach for - just kind of an ideal barrel length - long enough to shoot well but a nice compact and easy carry on the belt. If I wanted a +P or 357 though - I'd be looking at the SP101 or the Smith Model 60.

[Petrol & Powder]

A 357 doesn't have to be loaded to the gills to be useful, and at 38 sp levels the report and blast and toned way down. 150-170 gr cast @ 1000 fps will handle most chores of a woods companion and won't make you deaf. I look at a 357 as a 38 sp that will never ever wear out.

/\Very true/\
A lot of people buy a .357 magnum, "in case they want to shoot magnum loads" and then end up shooting 38 Special loads 99% of the time. I don't know how many people pass up on a good 38 Special revolver because "it isn't a magnum" but I know I've found some excellent guns because of that trend.

[jmort]

"I look at a 357 as a 38 sp that will never ever wear out."


That is how I look at it. And you always have the option to up the ante.

[Petrol & Powder]

Landy, you are very wise not to pounce on the first thing you see.
The BIGGEST mistake people make when gun shopping is buying what the gun store has in stock and clearly wants to sell to you.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS - decide exactly what you want FIRST and then and only then,.....seek out that specific gun at a price you're willing to pay.
If you allow impulse to rule that process there's only a slight chance you'll end up with something you'll ultimately be happy with and a very large probability that you'll end up with something that's not quite what you want.

A 3" model 60 embodies many of the qualities of a good kit gun: packable, lightweight, weather resistant, accurate and chambered for an appropriate cartridge. I have a special place in my heart for 3" barreled revolvers. Before you commit to the 3" model 60 (which really is a fine little kit gun) take the time to seek out a 3" stainless steel K-frame with a round butt grip frame for comparison. After you equip a 3" barreled J-frame with a decent set of grips it ends up being almost identical in overall size to a 3" round-butt K-frame.
The K-frame has a slightly beefier frame and larger cylinder which makes it a bit heavier but it's not much larger overall.
In the end you may still decide the J-frame is right for you and that's fine but keep the 3" SS K-frames in mind.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Ive shot enough ground squirels with 38 and have them run back to their holes enough times to know I will never use it for any thing other than small varmints and targets. With that being said it is my favorote plinking round but i load it with 357s when im out in the woods never know when your gunna run into a predator 4 or 2 legged.

[Petrol & Powder]

What do you mean by "ground squirrel"?

[Mica_Hiebert]

Woods varmint similar to plains prairy dog in size. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_ground_squirrel

[Thumbcocker]

I am a died in the wool revolver lover. With that said I have become very fond of a Ruger Lc9s. Very light weight, suprisingly accurate and affordable. On sale you can get one for $329 or so. You can carry it all day and never know it is there. Ours shoots boolits very well and 9mm brass is free at the range. Noe 130 rnfp shoots to sights at 15 yards. I like it but wouldn't feel compelled to jump into deep water after it like I would a model 19, 30, or 31 Smith.

[Petrol & Powder]

Woods varmint similar to plains prairy dog in size. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_ground_squirrel
You can't drop a ground squirrel with a 38 Special ?

http://web-images.chacha.com/images/galleryimage1326675523-feb-17-2012-600x480.jpg

[jrayborn]

They grow-em big in Idaho... :)

[Mica_Hiebert]

It pokes nice little holes in them and they run back to their homes 22 hp kills them dead rite there im just lettin you know my experiance with 38s, 357 vaporizes them I guess if I wanted meat I would opt for 38s but id hope the game didnt have a burrow close by.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't know what to say.

[Bill*B]

In the end it comes down to what appeals to you. It's from an earlier time (like me), but a plain old 4" S&W model 10 is accurate, reliable, and dead simple.

[Landy]

153121
The S&W 649, too, impressed me as having great hidden potential.
If S&W put real sights and a 3 or 3.5" barrel on it and called it the 'Town & Country,' the only thing wrong with it would be the difficulty that we'd have in arguing that we needed any other centerfire handgun.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Let me make sure I get the picture here.
Theres been suggestions of single action and double action revolvers, semi-autos single stack and double stack, polymer frame and 1911.
calibers from .22 to .45.
Barrel lengths from 1&7/8" to 5".
Yep I think that should cover the role of "woods walking gun" just fine.
Man these are really the Golden Years of our hobby!

[Petrol & Powder]

In the end it comes down to what appeals to you. It's from an earlier time (like me), but a plain old 4" S&W model 10 is accurate, reliable, and dead simple.

Lot to be said for this. Except for the blued finish, just about perfect for a kit gun.

[Combat Diver]

My woodsroaming gun is a old CA 3" Bulldog. Another on my wish list is a Ruger Single 7 in .327 Federal.


CD

[336A]

Yup sure is hard to go wrong with the S&W M10 for all the reasons already mentioned. After reading a few articles by Ed Harris I think I'm going to try out some full charge wadcutters as well.

[osteodoc08]

Can't go wrong with a 4" L frame or GP100 of you want a revolver.

Semi-Auto wise my personal woods bummin gun in a Glock 20sf (10mm).

[Petrol & Powder]

L-frames and GP-100's are fantastic revolvers but rather heavy for the kit gun role.


As for the 649 pictured previously, it's a decent self defense gun (although I've never seen a need for single action on a 2" snubnose, even a shrouded hammer -but that's another thread). The 649 or Stainless Steel Bodyguard is a very good tool for concealed carry but its small grips and short sight radius take it out of the running as a serious kit gun. If you equip it with the larger grips that it needs for that type of shooting, the overall size approaches that of a small K-frame and you still have the short sight radius.

[square butte]

I have been reading and enjoying this thread, and have to say that I have enjoyed - over the decades - getting to know quite a few different revolvers and autos as trail companions. As time went by I tended - and tend to choose what I think I will need for a particular outing. Or I will choose what I know I will just plain enjoy if no special need is required that day. On grouse hung days it was usually a S & W model 17 or 48. But I carried a S & W 66 in Montana when at work and took the head off a bunch of grouse with it - switching out to cast for that job if I had the opportunity. I carried the 66 because I had so much other gear to pack around - That I preferred the lighter weight it afforded. I worked just across the river from Glacier Park , And thought twice about the 66 after Louis Kiss got chewed on by a grizz. After that I sometimes carried S & W 25 in 45 Colt. Others I have gotten to know as companions are Walther PPK/S in .22 and .380 - and 1911's in 9mm and 45. Would hate it after all these years to just have one friend to choose from - But I have been blessed to have may options.

[35remington]

4 inch K frame 38. With proper loads killing power is good on small game and pests. Think wadcutter here.

[c1skout]

I wouldn't be afraid of the Charter Arms guns. My brother has been using a 44 bulldog for 20-some years with no trouble. I had a Police Bulldog in 38 for a year or so and it never gave any trouble either, I just never gelled with it I guess so it was traded down the road. I've got an Armscor 38 snub now that is kinda ugly, but pretty awesome given the $209 out the door price brand new! I added a compac Pachmayer grip for a d-frame Colt that made it comfy to shoot a whole box of 3.5gn bullseye powered 158swc at a time. They also make that gun in a 4" barrel.

[HABCAN]

As Square Butte has posted, you need a different gun in bear country than the one in your fishing-tackle box.

[Outpost75]

Yup sure is hard to go wrong with the S&W M10 for all the reasons already mentioned. After reading a few articles by Ed Harris I think I'm going to try out some full charge wadcutters as well.

+1 on the full charge wadcutter. I've been using them for 40 years.

153214153215153216153217

[Bazoo]

Perhaps a single six in 32 H&R magnum.

[Landy]

153216153217

That's certainly minute of grouse head!

[Outpost75]

That's certainly minute of grouse head!

Yes, with a circa 1966 Cop Gun too!

[Petrol & Powder]

A lot to be said for 38 Special and a 4" tube.......

An inexpensive but tight Model 10 with a tapered lightweight barrel and a trip to Robar for NP3 if fixed sights are OK , would be just about perfect. I prefer fixed sights on my work guns. Toss in a Tyler grip adaptor or a set of custom grips and it is just about as good as it gets for a kit gun.
The same criteria for a model 15 or if you can find a stainless 67 that would be even better.

If you can find a 4" model 12 and fixed sights are acceptable, that would be a great lightweight option and you can refinish the steel parts.

A stainless steel Ruger Security-six or service-six would be awesome if the weight was acceptable.


If you want to reduce the bulk a bit there's the option of a 3" barreled K-frame or J-frame in 38 Special but I tend to lean towards the K-frames because there's just not a lot of overall difference once you step up to a 3" barrel and real grips. The K-frames are just a little bit more friendly for my hands than a J-frame.

[Hickok]

Here is my favorite general purpose load in my Model 60 Smith.

I use .357 mag cases simply because I hate cleaning out the crud ring in the cylinder after shooting .38 specials in a mag chamber.

.357 magnum case, 158 gr cast SWC- HP / 5.7 gr Unigue powder. Standard small pistol primers.

This load nearly duplicates the FBI +P 38 Special 158gr lead SWC-HP load. I get 870-900 fps in my 3" and 4" Smith revolvers with this combination. Nice easy shooting load and very accurate. I have even substituted the Speer 158 lead SWC-HP in my revolvers and it works excellent. (Bought a box of 500 real cheap).

I zero my little Model 60 dead on @ 25 yards with the above load, and then switch over to my 357 mag load of Lee 158 RF boolit and 10.5gr/Bluedot powder and the Model 60 places the boolits +2 inches high at 25 yards with the same sight setting. Simply wonderful, as I can swithch to either load as I feel the need.

The Magnum load with Lee 158FN and Bluedot is fairly "brisk" as to recoil in the Model 60, but it is manageable.

[Bullwolf]

I alternate back and forth between a few 38/.357 caliber revolvers that I often carry around on the farm.

I tend to favor 38 Special level loads, and Rat shot/ Snake shot loads. My 357 loads are often cast boolits loaded to subsonic velocities.That way I'm able to still take a shot without experiencing severe discomfort if not wearing any hearing protection.

My top 3 favorites are:
A Smith model 60 Chief's Special
A Ruger SP101
My Dan Wesson 714 stainless w/fixed sights (and a 4 inch Barrel Assembly)

When feeling lazy, the Model 60 goes in a pocket, or rides along inside the tractor battery box. It often wears a Barami hip grip, or a De-santi clip grip for those times I don't feel like wearing a belt or pocket holster. The image below isn't mine, but it nicely showcases the utility of a Barami Hip Grip.
http://www.bluesheepdog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Barami-250x187.jpg

My model 60 is quite a bit more used and has a fair amount of honest finish wear.

I almost hate to mention my SP101. It's heavy for it's size, but unpleasant to shoot many 357 mag loads in. On the bright side you likely won't wear one out with a steady diet of 38 Special loads.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52386&d=1305279410

An oversize Hogue rubber grip really helps with comfort, control and shoot-ability of the SP101, but gives it a bigger footprint as well like a larger six shot revolver. I find my SP101 too heavy/bulky to pocket carry even with compact grips like the Eagle Secret Service grips, or Badger grips, I often end up wearing it in a belt holster.

Unless you really like the SP101, I'd go with a 6 shot revolver instead for the weight and size. (and I often do) I really like my DAO SP101, but it's a niche gun I originally wanted a DAO SP101 Revolver, and had mine converted, and bobbed the hammer. It ended up with a very smooth double action trigger, and is surprisingly accurate for what it is. More importantly I trust it. Unfortunately, it's somewhat heavy, and overbuilt for the role that I'd intended it for.

I use my Dan Wesson 714 revolver the most for woods type carry, and it often wears a 4 inch barrel assembly.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53541&d=1338931287

My Dan Wesson with a 4 inch barrel assembly is also my ATV gun of choice.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153262&d=1447468748

Dan Wesson change barrel revolvers easily fill multiple roles. With the change of a barrel assembly can go from a woods carry revolver, to a target/hunting piece.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153263&d=1447471067

There are others of course, but those 3 get used the most often. Sometimes I sneak a Smith & Wesson 442 Air-weight in as well.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_187904f332e5a776fa.jpg

There's nothing wrong with a 4 inch bobbed Ruger Security Six or GP100 either. Sadly my old 6 inch Security Six is just a little bit too long to be sit in the truck, or tractor seat comfortable, so my 4 inch Dan Wesson gets used more.

Another excellent woods carry revolver was my ex wife's model 65 Lady Smith, a very well proportioned mid size 6 shot 357 Magnum revolver with a convenient (In My Opinion) barrel length of 3 inches.
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/8/89/S%26W_Model_65-5_Ladysmith.jpg/400px-S%26W_Model_65-5_Ladysmith.jpg#357%20ladysmith%20400x251

I'd happily purchase another Model 65, and ignore the Lady Smith logo on the frame.

Occasionally i'll get into other caliber kicks too, and then it's 45 ACP for a while, or 44 Mag/Special. But I always come back to 38/357 sooner or later.


- Bullwolf

[Good Cheer]

In 1981 I let a longer barreled light weight Charter Arms .357 get away from me. Way dumb move. Wish I still had it. For running around in the Unitas it was perfect. Much lighter than other .357's and wasn't a goofy snubby. With .38's it snagged lunch and with .357's I slept a little sounder in the high lonesome. Too bad Charter stopped turning out the longer barrels.

[Hickok]

I have to say this is one great thread and I am enjoying comments and the cool pictures. And we are finding from real world experience that the .38 or .357 revolvers from snubs to the 4 inchers are excellent all around firearms for everyday use! Ain't it the truth!!!

[Petrol & Powder]

Bullwolf, that's a good post.
Whenever I see a J-frame with Barami Hip Grip stocks I'm always reminded of the Werner Carry System http://snubtraining.com/snub-training-werner-carry-system/.
It's not for everyone but it is another tool in the tool box for consideration. DeSantis has a newer "clip -grip" available for the J-Frame S&W that is closer to boot grip profile and eliminates the need for the Tyler T-grip adaptor and Houge grip sleeve.

I also like your comments about the SP101. I've owned many of those fine revolvers over the years and you will not find a stronger snubnose for the 38 special. Unfortunately that strength comes at the cost of weight & bulk.

As for the model 65, you don't have to buy the "Ladysmith" edition in order to get a Model 65 with a 3" barrel and round butt grip frame. That 3" barreled K-frame with a round butt grip frame is one of my all time favorite set ups for a combat revolver and could easily fill the role of a kit gun as well.

[Petrol & Powder]

153278153279
In the first photo we have a S&W Model 64 with a 4" barrel. A solid gun but the barrel profile is heavier than it needs to be for a "kit gun" application.

The second photo shows a Round butt model 65 with a 3" barrel and a square butt model 10 with a 4" tapered barrel and Tyler T-grip adaptor. Those two guns weigh almost the same. The 3" model 65 is one of my all time favorites but that model 10 gives you just a little more sight radius without a weight penalty.
Stainless steel gets my vote for any working gun. If adjustable sights are deemed mandatory (and for me they are not desirable on working guns) the Model 67 with a 4" barrel would be the my top choice. You can get an older mdl 67 with the lighter weight barrel.
A model 10 with that tapered lightweight barrel could be sent to Robar for NP3 application and you would have a very weather resistant gun but at more than twice the cost of the base gun itself.

[Markbo]

What about an W AS.clone in .45 Colt. You can load some mild reconciling loads that still hit with authority. You can get an ugly one like the Rodeo tbat you dont have to worry about or a real pretty for $300-350 like the Uberti Cattleman:
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/uberti-cattleman-single-action/

[Ithaca Gunner]

Good gun leather can overcome quite a bit of weight and bulk if you feel you need power over a small package. For years I carried a full size 1911 in a Galco "*******" or "Miami" shoulder holster with the optional belt loops. Easy carry, I hardly knew it was there. The Galco "Combat Master" or "Paddle" belt holsters are good too. When in the woods or field I carry a 4" S&W 629-3 in a Galco "Combat Master" quite comfortably. I'm sure other brands make some comfortable holsters also.

I read mention of .38Spl. full wadcutter ammo in this thread. It reminds me of a story I read years ago concerning a forestry department with a porcupine over population problem. If I remember the story correctly, after trying various loads of .357 Magnum, and some other handgun cartridges on these critters, they found the .38Spl. full wadcutter ammunition the most effective in dealing with them for "dead right there".

[tazman]

I have shot squirrels with a wide variety of cartridges over the years. Everything from 22short to 35 Remington to 50cal muzzle loader(round ball) and lots of stuff in between. For dead right there without the terrible meat damage on game animals, the 38 special full wadcutter is the best I have seen. Even if you make a body shot on small game, it just drills a 38 caliber hole through without exploding/destroying the animal.
It is usually one of the most accurate loads for the gun as well.

[Landy]

In 1981 I let a longer barreled light weight Charter Arms .357 get away from me. Way dumb move. Wish I still had it. For running around in the Unitas it was perfect. Much lighter than other .357's and wasn't a goofy snubby. With .38's it snagged lunch and with .357's I slept a little sounder in the high lonesome. Too bad Charter stopped turning out the longer barrels.

They were away for a few years, but they (44 spcl. too) are back on the website - if not necessarily in the stores.

http://www.charterarms.com/collections/mag-pug/products/73542-ss-full-mag-pug

[Landy]

I have to say this is one great thread and I am enjoying comments and the cool pictures. And we are finding from real world experience that the .38 or .357 revolvers from snubs to the 4 inchers are excellent all around firearms for everyday use! Ain't it the truth!!!

Yes, and thanks to all of you for making it so.

This too often nasty world can push gun conversations so far toward the dire needs of self-defense that the simple pleasures and benefits of potting some camp meat or even just plinking pine cones get lost. Oddly enough of this pleasant kind of shooting could, once did, build such good people and such a good country that the unpleasant kind become scarcely necessary.

153363

[TXGunNut]

"Unobtrusiveness" has as much to do with carry method as it does the handgun chosen. In the woods I'll be packing a 45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk in an El Paso Saddlery holster; very comfortable and actually conceals quite well if I have to go to town for ice or gas.

[ironhead7544]

I have been using a 4 inch S&W M12. Weighs a bit less than a 2 inch M60 but is full size. 900 fps with a 158 gr cast in a standard pressure load. A 4 inch K frame conceals easily for me.

Thinking of switching to a M66-8. This new K frame is claimed to take the 357 Mag with no problems. If flash bothers you, load the 358429 with IMR4227. Very little flash. Of course, you can use the 38 special loads, too.

[6thtexas]

My favorite revolver for a trail gun is my 4 5/8" Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Mag followed by either my S&W 19 or Ruger Security Six, both with 4' barrels. The S&W is a little lighter weight, but I rounded the butt on the Security Six and it is a little easier to pack under a jacket.

[Landy]

I have been using a 4 inch S&W M12. Weighs a bit less than a 2 inch M60 but is full size. 900 fps with a 158 gr cast in a standard pressure load. A 4 inch K frame conceals easily for me.

I didn't know of these other than snubby 'Airweights' til suggested right here.

They've not every every feature that I was seeking, but would be a good and classic solution.

[Petrol & Powder]

A 4" S&W model 12 would make a great kit gun. Lightweight, longer sight radius than a 3" J-frame, 6 round cylinder, decent size grip. The only draw back is the 12 no dash through 12-3 models use thinner grips than the standard K-frames. There also were not many 4" model 12's made (the vast majority had 2" barrels). The 12-4 uses the same grips as any other K-frame. If you're using standard magna grips you can sand down the flat side of a standard K-frame grip panel and make it work on the older model 12's if you need replacement grips.
I had a set of custom boot grips made for my 2" 12-3 and they are well worth the price but the 12-4 models are just easier to deal with when seeking replacement grips.

I'm a huge fan of the Ruger Service Six / Security Six and Speed Six models but they are a bit heavy for kit gun duty. Some of the older Ruger Service-Sixes had lighter contour barrels than the later models and you could always go with a round butt Speed Six and the 2 3/4" barrel to get the weight down a bit. A stainless steel Speed-six with the 2 3/4" barrel would be very packable and downright indestructible.
Lot's of good options out there.

I'm squarely with tazman's opinion that a 38 Special with some flat front bullet driven at moderate velocity is incredibly useful in the role of a woods-companion [kit gun]. I just do not see the need for a .357 magnum in that type of gun. As Outpost has shown, the 38 Special is not only fun to shoot and inexpensive, it can also be extremely accurate.

[EDK]

I've been a revolver guy almost all my life. Used RUGERS, SMITHS and back to RUGER Vaqueros in 357 and 44 for the last 10 years. I bought a GLOCK 17 after picking up tons of 9mm on the outdoor range I joined; traded for a GLOCK 26 and then a GLOCK 34.

I'd keep things simple and carry the GLOCK 26 in a BLADE TECH holster with the retention set high. The PLUS magazine is 12 rounds and one in the chamber is all I need for eastern Missouri unless I find one of the stray mountain lions passing through...heard one awhile back at the old place and it spooked the ex-wife and dogs too.

IF there's bigger critters to worry about, one of the 10mm GLOCKS would be my first thought. If you watch the MOUNTAIN MEN series on cable, the guy who runs dogs for predator control packs a GLOCK under his coat...sounded like a 10mm when he got spooked by a bear of some sort and decided to raise the ante. Bear left quickly.

A semi automatic pistol and two spare clips would be very comforting and not too heavy.

[Petrol & Powder]

EDK, you bring up good points.
I've always thought of a kit gun as a revolver but a 9mm Glock certainly could fill that role. I'd probably want some truncated cone bullet profile to get that flat point that is so important when taking small game. As far as durability and ruggedness it would be hard to beat a Glock !!
The G26 with an extended mag would pack well but I've always had a very strong affinity for the G19. Just about the perfect combination of size/weight/power in a concealable pistol; at least in my eyes.

[Markbo]

...My favorite revolver for a trail gun is my 4 5/8" Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Mag....

This has become my favorite woods/hunting carry handgun as well. Mine happens to be a Birds Head which carries really well and is a pleasure to shoot too.

[charlie b]

Interesting discussion. It does depend a LOT on what you expect to encounter. Pigs, cougar, dogs, snakes, coyote, rabbits, squirrels, etc, etc.

I usually carry my 3" SP101 in .357 mag, but, it is not for plinking. Usually along for the ride when I am fishing or hiking. Either in a shoulder (fishing) or pancake (hiking) holster. First round loaded is a shot load as my most common problem is snakes on the trails. I also like that it is stainless cause it gets dunked in streams every now and then. I put it on and forget about it. I don't think it's that heavy at all. I do shoot it quite a bit. Yes, mostly light loads but I also like to shoot full power loads in it.

If I wanted a gun to serve for small game I'd go with something like a .32 or .38. I'd probably opt for my wife's 1903 Colt :) It is surprisingly accurate and easy to carry and shoot. A Colt Police in one of the .32 calibers (prefer .32-20) has been on my short list for a while too. I'd love to find one that I could fix up.

A couple of friends have the LCR and they love them. For me it is not too good for extended shooting, even with .38 loads. Target loads are nice though.

[RJM52]

If you want "small" an unobtrusive here is another vote for the S&W 60-10 (or 60-15 with the IL) 3" .357 Magnum with adjustable sights. I've run mine on a timer against a 3" Model 65 and even with .357s there isn't a lot of difference in a defensive shooting role.

Bought an extra cylinder and sent it off to TK Custom for rechambering to .38 Super and it will also run 9mm and supposedly .380 ACP.

I use mine for backpacking, fishing, canoeing and hiking...

Bob

9mm at 12 yards DA

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMith%20and%20Wesoon%20II/013_zpsu0rybzql.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/RJM52/media/SMith%20and%20Wesoon%20II/013_zpsu0rybzql.jpg.html)

Carry options...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/SWM60Holsters002.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/RJM52/media/SMITH-WESSON/SWM60Holsters002.jpg.html)

[nockhunter]

153752
Here is a pic of my field "packin iron", 3" M60 38 special. It goes with me a lot, light enough to not bother you and just enough weight to tame those +P's. It fits well in the front pocket of my neoprene waders when I am steelhead fishing. It too has been dunked once or twice.

Mike

[besk]

S&W Model 12 with 4 inch barrel is a great compromise. Fixed sights? So what. Practice until you know where it shoots.
I love mine - full frame but lightweight. You forget you have it with you.

[oscarflytyer]

Ruger BH Flattop in 44 SPC or 45 Colt, 4 3/4"bbl. Cast bullets. Have both, carry the 44 every step I take in the woods. Hunting/walking/working/everything. And for everything, including taking a deer during season.

[MtGun44]

629 Mountain gun 4" with 250 Keith over 8.1 of Titegroup. Accurate,
will kill anything in my woods - deer is biggest thing likely to see. Coyote
would be an easy kill.

[Landy]

I'm glad that I wasn't alone with some 'Goldilocks Syndrome' looking for just the right woods companion piece.

Many fine choices and guns are showing up here.