What Civil War Carbine

[milrifle]

I've got a hankering for a Civil War Carbine. Of course the first one that comes to mind is a Sharps, but there are many others out there. I would want an original, not a reproduction. I'm thinking something in the $1200-$2500 range and I would want it to be shootable. For the most part, this rules out rimfires I would guess. I'm not sure whether I would want something that fired paper cartridges or metallic or maybe even the rubber/plastic ones like a Smith. I'm certainly not above making up the paper cartridges, so the work there is not really a factor. A falling block action seems to be a little more interesting than a simple break/folding action, but would probably be more work to clean up all the BP fouling. What do you suggest for a first Civil War carbine?

[StrawHat]

I have had and enjoyed using a Burnside carbine for nearly my entire life. The brass cases seem to last forever and the carbine is a good lightweight companion in the field.

I have also used the Smith carbine, the Sharps, and several others. I still have the Burnside.

Kevin

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The Spencer breechblock can be replaced with your own centrefire version from S&S Firearms, without altering the rifle. They can also supply cases for the.56-50, although the others could be made somehow. You might have to substitute or alter a hammer that comes closer to the centerline, but here is just one of the companies that make castings, and there are others.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/search.asp?pg=1&stext=spencer+conversion&sprice=&stype=&scat=150

https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/

The Spencer seems a lot more fun than the Burnside.

[Mk42gunner]

Breech loading small arms design was in such a state of flux during and immediately after the Civil War that I think the best bet for you is to actually handle some of the guns before you decide what to buy.

Some are neat to look at, but don't feel good in the hands.

Some feel okay, but don't inspire great confidence in the safeness of the design. And remember each and every one of these guns are 150+ years old, I highly doubt that any have become safer since leaving the factory.

I don't think there were very many cartridges that used centerfire primers during the Civil War.

Keep us posted as your search continues, please.

Robert

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There are a bunch of Civil War Re-enactors around here and the carbine of choice seems to be the Smith. A few of them have originals, but most of them use newer replicas. The newer version and new ammo is much improved over the original version.

[Bent Ramrod]

If you want an original, I would suggest the Maynard. You can get the wide, thin rim shells and correct boolit moulds, and the thing is simple to operate and clean.

I have one that could charitably be described as a total wreck. It shoots without trouble and quite accurately considering the C+ condition of the bore. It's easy to see why the Maynard was one of the few designs the Federal soldiers and cavalrymen actually liked.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, the Maynard is a classic example of KISS ("Keep It Simple Stupid!") The Civil War Ballard wasn't as good as the later Marlin-Ballards, but I would prefer it to the Smith or Burnside. But I think that with a little more metal a strong and accurate falling-block single shot could be built on the principle of the Spencer.

[ndnchf]

If you want a light, handy and accurate carbine, you can't go wrong with a Burnside. I had one many years ago. With a Dixie mold and cases, it would shoot about 2" groups at 50 yards.

[John Allen]

The maynards are very affordable and I have seen many with clean to excellent bores. They are simple as stated and are super easy to clean up. The second option in an affordable one is the burnside. I like my maynard more than my burnside but that is just personal preference.

[milrifle]

Thanks for the suggestions, Guys. I'm still mulling it over and I really appreciate your input. Keep 'em coming, too, as I'm not buying one today, but hopefully within the next couple of months.

[Hickok]

If you haven't already done it, go to the North-South Skirmish association website and get with these fellows, they can answer all your questions. I have been to some of their shooting matches and many of them shoot with original rifles as well as repros. These fellows shoot rifles a lot in competition, and they know what they are talking about.

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/forum.php?

[John Allen]

If you haven't already done it, go to the North-South Skirmish association website and get with these fellows, they can answer all your questions. I have been to some of their shooting matches and many of them shoot with original rifles as well as repros. These fellows shoot rifles a lot in competition, and they know what they are talking about.

http://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/forum.php?


Hickok, I am glad you mentioned this to him. I totally forgot to post this. They have a good site and I have seen some pretty good deals on original stuff.

[hporter]

John Allen,

When you say the Maynards are affordable, what ball park figure would that fall under? I have been looking at the Smith carbines because you can pick up a Pietta reproduction for $6-700 on the auction sites. When I look on those sites for the Maynards and Burnsides, the auction prices are all over the map. What price range should a shooter grade rifle fall into?

This is a great thread, and I am enjoying reading the responses to the OP's question.

[Bent Ramrod]

Good condition Civil War Maynards seem to go for $1700-$2100 at Gun Shows around here, but I don't see lines forming to snap them up. I imagine some wheeling and dealing could bring the price down some.

The Smiths kind of scare me. A friend had an Italian replica Smith. It looked pretty neat, but the only thing holding it together is a hinge on the bottom and a big spring on top with a square hole which engages a square lug in the rear of the frame. Even with the rather anemic charges that were all he could put into the replica cases, the lug would frequently pop off of the spring after the shot was fired. It didn't come completely open, but still...

The Burnside another friend had seemed plenty stout and simple enough to use and take care of, but the brass shells were kind of costly last I looked. It might have been a little more powerful than the Maynard; I can't remember at this point.

My love-hate favorite is my Gallagher replica, which is plenty strong, stout, powerful (can use 70 gr charges with the thin shells) and easy to take care of, EXCEPT for its propensity to stick shells in the rear of the breech instead of the barrel where they're supposed to stick after firing. If Gallagher had just ironed that one bug out, his design would have been one of the best instead of one of the most loathed Civil War carbines. I'm still working on that one.

[StrawHat]

...The Smiths kind of scare me. A friend had an Italian replica Smith. It looked pretty neat, but the only thing holding it together is a hinge on the bottom and a big spring on top with a square hole which engages a square lug in the rear of the frame. Even with the rather anemic charges that were all he could put into the replica cases, the lug would frequently pop off of the spring after the shot was fired. It didn't come completely open, but still...

This worried me a bit also, but apparently is not as big a deal as you and I think. I am aware of one Smith carbine that was reworked to handle the 50-70 cartridge. Not sure if the spring was beefed up or even if that is possible.


The Burnside another friend had seemed plenty stout and simple enough to use and take care of, but the brass shells were kind of costly last I looked. It might have been a little more powerful than the Maynard; I can't remember at this point...

I have been using the same 20 brass shells for the last couple of decades. I do not compete with N-SSA, nor with any group but I did fire the Burnside somewhat frequently. They are well constructed cases. Missionary5155 started a thread regarding the nylon cases available for the Burnside.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?291220-Burnside-Nylon-Cases

Kevin

[fouronesix]

Might also consider a P53 Enfield carbine or a P61 musketoon. You also see them referred to as "cavalry" or "artillery" carbines. The South used quite a few of them, so very appropriate for Civil War anachronism shooting. Very straight forward simple to shoot. :)

I have an original P53 Enfield carbine and it is one of the most accurate of all the muzzleloader Enfields I've shot- repro or original. Don't know why… just is.

For perspective, here's the P53 Tower carbine and a P53 LACo rifle musket. Both are crown & VR marked. The musket is also marked and documented to the 1st Surrey Rifles unit in London.

[doc1876]

lots of good info here. I know men that have used the Smith, Maynard, and Burnsides, and all have loved them. I have seen many using the Smith with no issues with lockup.

I have been using a Sharps by Garrett for over 30 years, and love it. I had been using an original when I first started, and had a great fear of messing it up, so sold it and got the Garrett. There was one on gunboker labeled as a Barrett, but I can't find it now.
One of the guys I know is using a Colts Revolving Rifle carbine. I have no idea where he got it, but it is a repro.

You might just have to get one of each.

[30calflash]

Might also consider a P53 Enfield carbine or a P61 musketoon. You also see them referred to as "cavalry" or "artillery" carbines. The South used quite a few of them, so very appropriate for Civil War anachronism shooting. Very straight forward simple to shoot. :)

I have an original P53 Enfield carbine and it is one of the most accurate of all the muzzleloader Enfields I've shot- repro or original. Don't know why… just is.
This.

There's a lot to be said for a muzzleloading carbine of CW heritage. There were a lot more of them used, particularly by the south, and can be had in some nice repros for a shooter grade M/L. A mould, some musket caps and BP and you're in business.

Many of the breechloaders mentioned are neat. A friend had about 6 of various manufacturers, I think the Smith was his go to for shooting. Or an M/L.

Probably best to find what cartridges are readily available for your chosen model. Sometimes none can be found. Hate to have what you've been waiting for only to not be able to fire it.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Do not overlook a Hall Carbine. Easy to load breach loading carbine. No cases. Pour the powder into the easy to access breach. Plop a caliber 54 ball on top. There are earlier models that used larger and latter models that were caliber 52. Close breach. Add a musket cap. You are ready to fire. I have made paper cartridges that cut reload time more than in half. Very accurate and a 40-1 RB expands on whatever it strikes. 20-1 offers better penetration. Origonals can be found under $1700.
Mike in Peru

[StrawHat]

The Burnside was developed as an improvement of the Hall Carbine. When Ambrose Burnside graduated from West Point, he was involved in the War with Mexico and was around the Hall carbine. Lots of smoke and flame issued forth from the gap between chamber and barrel. One of the improvements was the cartridge case that sealed the gap. The were more but that was a big one.

Kevin

[milrifle]

I've been out of range of a computer for a few days, so just checking back in. Thanks to all for you for your suggestions. While a muzzle loader is interesting, I am leaning toward a breech loader. The Hall is very interesting, butI had kinda discounted it due to the reports of excessive leakage. Maybe it is not as bad as some say, but I had read that it would burn your fingers and your face upon firing. Any first hand experience out there? I'd also be interested to know how hard one is to clean. It looks like there are a lot of little cracks and crevices for BP residue to hide.

[StrawHat]

...The Hall is very interesting, ... Any first hand experience out there?...

I fired one, once. It was a flintlock and between the pan and the gap, the target was totally obscured. Doubt a percussion would be much better. Growing up in the 60's was a blessing. Lot's of fellows shooting originals and the replica industry just coming on to the scene. Lot's of good memories from shooting in the open dumps and the woods walks I took back then.

Kevin

[varsity07840]

lots of good info here. I know men that have used the Smith, Maynard, and Burnsides, and all have loved them. I have seen many using the Smith with no issues with lockup.

I have been using a Sharps by Garrett for over 30 years, and love it. I had been using an original when I first started, and had a great fear of messing it up, so sold it and got the Garrett. There was one on gunboker labeled as a Barrett, but I can't find it now.
One of the guys I know is using a Colts Revolving Rifle carbine. I have no idea where he got it, but it is a repro.

You might just have to get one of each.

The "Barrett" was sold for $750.00. There were over 30 bidders for it.

Duane

[milrifle]

Well, I found a nice Sharps on Gun Broker. I wasn't going to move that fast, but it was really nice and the price was lower than several I've seen in worse shape. It's a 50-70 conversion. My wife has been wanting a Sharps, but didn't want to spend the money. This one will be her Christmas present. I may still be on the lookout for another brand of carbine for myself. I'm kinda leaning toward the Smith, but I'll just have to see how it goes.

[StrawHat]

Once bitten by the 50-70 bug, you will lose interest in those measly 45 caliber cartridges. Springfield made several conversions from CW muskets, the 1865, the 1866 and some of the 1868s.

The Sharps is a light carbine, perfect for hunting but not so much for a string off the bench. I am sure you will enjoy it!

Kevin