Alberta Canada double zero buck

[Huntsman]

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151107_165928_zpswkhwdrht.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151107_165928_zpswkhwdrht.jpg.html)
I took this buck on Saturday with my new Winchester SXP Waterfowl 12ga, modified choke and a Federal 3" 00 Buck shotshell. I shot him at 25 yards and he ran about 20yds. I was quite impressed with how the buckshot performed, it turned his heart and lungs into a sloshy mess.

[richhodg66]

Where I grew up in S.C., OO buckshot seemed the weapon of choice for deer (very thick cover, a lot of guys hunted in drives held by clubs). I've personally never killed one with a shotgun. Buckshot isn't legal where I live now, are you required to use a shotgun there?

Nice buck, by the way. Our rut is on right now and I've been bowhunting. Seen a lot of smaller bucks, none have the swollen neck and shoulders like yours for some reason.

[Huntsman]

Funny you ask, there is zero requirement to use a shotgun where I was hunting. In fact when I put the same pic up on a forum here everyone was quite surprised that I used one. The only restrictions are calibers less than .24 and no use of non expanding bullets.

[white eagle]

Nice deer
big body on that rascal
whats that white stuff

[farmerjim]

I have shot 2 with 3in 00 buck, each about 25 yards. Neither was a good kill. One broke both front legs. the other broke one front leg and the spine so that the back legs would not function. I had to chase both down and kill with a shot to the head. I patterned that gun on cardboard after the second one. Big holes in the pattern. It shot no 6 shot fine.

[missionary5155]

Greetings Huntsman and Congratulations !
Nice buck ! At 25 years 00 would be a good choice and apparently you 12 likes it a lot ! Never have fired on a corn cruncher with 00. Well you sure chose the right combination that day.
Mike in Peru

[DW475]

Congrats, nice buck!

[DougGuy]

I never shoot buckshot. Yes it will kill deer but you gotta consider that you are shooting a handful of .33 caliber round balls, hardly what I would consider as a hunting projectile, the only advantage is that there are 15 of them in a 3" shell. Lots of room for error, lots of wounded deer lost, I took an old doe once that had 3 different sizes of buckshot and a broadhead in her legs, all old wounds healed up, I'm sure she hurt like hell as many times as she had been shot.

Personally I want to know within the size of a tennis ball where on the deer my boolit is going to hit or I don't need to be shooting.

A good slug gun will cloverleaf a playing card @ 100yds with a box of walmart Foster slugs, why would anybody want to use buckshot when groups like this are typical with a decent slug gun? I don't get it.

[richhodg66]

A lot of the deer I have killed have been within 25 yards. I would think, though I'm not much of a shotgunner and have never patterned extensively to find out, that 00 would be devastating at 25 yards. Like anything else, a guy has to understand his capabilities and limitations then work within them. Looks like Huntsman did just that.

What kind of gun are you getting playing card sized groups with at 100 yards with Fosters? I have shot a few different smoothbore slug guns, the most accurate of which is an Ithaca 37 Deer Slayer in 16 gauge, but it won't do that every time even at 50 (open sights).

Just curious, did any/most/all the 00 pellets go all the way through or stay in the deer?

[white eagle]

whatever he shot it with makes no difference
he made the kill all the same
the end result we all hope for
no need to criticize the methods he chooses

[farmerjim]

Buckshot is great for short ranges where a quick shot is needed. Loads for a shotgun are as important as they are for a rifle or pistol. I started loading shotgun first and found out some loads gave great patterns in my gun and others did not. The one and only 12 gauge that I own does not like factory 3 in magnums. One day I may find a buckshot load that it does. Good kill.
I have a niece and nephew that live up your way in Sherwood forest. They have several moose but very few deer come to their pond.

[DougGuy]

What kind of gun are you getting playing card sized groups with at 100 yards with Fosters?

Mossy 500A rifled barrel the one with the scope base soldered to it.

[Huntsman]

Hey thanks guys. Ya I had 100% confidence that I'd nail that deer or any deer that went passed me. I did some scouting previous to the hunt and after taking several laser range shots from different distances my furthest shot would've been 28 yds. Having patterned my load to 20,30 and 40 I knew it was a lethal kill zone. I'm heading out tomorrow evening with the same setup in hopes to fill my 2nd tag. All the best on your hunt(s)this fall.

[Edward]

My H +R full choked liked 4 buck (buck shot only) allowed in N J at the time . I had some success 43 at the time with that gun , I do not remember a lot of cripples just meals with meat!

[Oklahoma Rebel]

farmerjim, I would like to know what your setup was... barrel length, choke? bead sight? I would have no qualms shooting a deer with 00 at 25-35 yards in my 28" mossy 500 with a full choke, almost sounds like you were using a more open choke size? am I correct in guessing that?

[ammohead]

If buckshot is no good for hunting deer, why is it called buckshot? I have heard rabbits referred to as bucks and does but no one would hunt rabbits with buckshot. Seems to me that buckshot is specifically for deer hunting.

[richhodg66]

Kansas won't let us use buck shot on deer, but I've killed quite a few with rifles and crossbow that would have ben easy take downs with a shotgun.

I like rifles, they are what I shoot mostly, but in the grand scheme, a 12 gauge is the most versatile type of firearm a guy can own.

[marshall623]

Ive killed a couple with buckshot and it is lethal , the right choke and patterning the load is key .My 870 shoots 00 buck good with Mod. choke and even better with an Imp.- Mod. choke . Huntsman that is a fine buck .

[brass410]

my winny pump 12 with imp cyl 3" and 00 has stopped a lot of deer over the years normally within 4 good jumps more than a dozen drd (neck shot at close range 10yds less from stand) we where mandated to use buck shot (urban area) Lost only one in all those years

[brass410]

by the way very nice buck huntsman

[Texas by God]

I want to kill a deer with a shotgun. I have killed a large feral sow just 30 ft from my canoe with cylinder/2-3/4"ooB. It worked fine.

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[Huntsman]

Thanks eh.
I never had a chance this year to use any shotguns for deer or shoot a deer period. I was able to connect with a moose and my 38/55 model ‘94 though:D


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[phonejack]

Congrats on your buck !

[Mgvande]

Thanks eh.
I never had a chance this year to use any shotguns for deer or shoot a deer period. I was able to connect with a moose and my 38/55 model ‘94 though:D


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How do you like the 38/55? Plenty of power for moose? I've been eyeballing some lever actions in this chambering but haven't pulled the trigger.

[Huntsman]

How do you like the 38/55? Plenty of power for moose? I've been eyeballing some lever actions in this chambering but haven't pulled the trigger.

Yes plenty of power IMO :)
http://i64.tinypic.com/261jhpc.jpg

Next year will be with my 1885 in 38/55 with 250gr cb
http://i68.tinypic.com/51d27k.jpg

[Mgvande]

I like the 1885. You're shooting smokless or black?

[GEOMETRIC]

I have lived in South Carolina most of my life. Pop & grand pop were from SC. We have been blessed with an over abundance of deer. The biggest reason buckshot has been traditionally used here is safety. Hunters were placed on stands relatively close together and the deer were driven with hounds. Buckshot is generally required so you don't kill the next stander. It's not foolproof but it helps. Standers should know where the adjoining standers are & not shoot in that direction but there is human nature & Murphy's law. Another reason is buckshot is the weapon of choice for fast moving deer at close range. Hunters criticize dog hunters for bad sportsmanship then go sit in a tree over a pile of corn. Many couldn't kill a deer if their life depended on it without bait. Bait is the most effective way to get a shot if not the most sporting.
Personally, I'm not too picky. I am happy anytime I am in the woods hunting & don't criticize others as long as they are legal & ethical. I don't like buckshot for hogs but it is often the best choice for deer. I base that on 50 years of hunting deer with buckshot, lessons I have learned from my peers, and extensive pattern tests & research. I have come to believe a number of things about buckshot. Obviously, it is not a long range weapon. If you expect shots over 40 yds., you need a different load. The most often asked questions are, how far will it kill & how many pellets does it take to kill a deer? The answer is, it depends. Up to some predetermined range, it will kill as far as you can place an adequate number of buckshot in the vitals of a deer. The main limiting factors are, buckshot rapidly looses velocity & energy & that very tight patterns defeat the advantage of buckshot, which is it produces a pattern. If that's what you want, shoot a slug.
This is just my opinion & you are perfectly entitled to disagree. If you prove me wrong, it won't be the first time & likely not the last.
I have found that "OO" & "OOO" tends to pattern better & definitely penetrates better than smaller sizes. How many pellets? I have seen 1 pellet kill more than one buck but that's the exception. 3 or 4 will likely do the job more often than not. A lot of people have told me that this is overkill but I like to see 8 large size buckshot in the heart lung area.
I have killed as many or more deer hunting with a rifle which I definitely prefer when still hunting or hunting from a tree stand. I like to hunt with a muzzle loader with the patched round ball.

[Smoke4320]

CONGRATS on the buck .. good meat for the freezer .
I have killed several with buckshot
One of the biggest deer I ever shot was at about 15yds and buckshot. he came out of a swamp and thru a wall and I do mean a wall of brush right straight at me I pumped 2 shots in him and my brother took another one . he literally slid right up to my feet

[richhodg66]

I have lived in South Carolina most of my life. Pop & grand pop were from SC. We have been blessed with an over abundance of deer. The biggest reason buckshot has been traditionally used here is safety. Hunters were placed on stands relatively close together and the deer were driven with hounds. Buckshot is generally required so you don't kill the next stander. It's not foolproof but it helps. Standers should know where the adjoining standers are & not shoot in that direction but there is human nature & Murphy's law. Another reason is buckshot is the weapon of choice for fast moving deer at close range. Hunters criticize dog hunters for bad sportsmanship then go sit in a tree over a pile of corn. Many couldn't kill a deer if their life depended on it without bait. Bait is the most effective way to get a shot if not the most sporting.
Personally, I'm not too picky. I am happy anytime I am in the woods hunting & don't criticize others as long as they are legal & ethical. I don't like buckshot for hogs but it is often the best choice for deer. I base that on 50 years of hunting deer with buckshot, lessons I have learned from my peers, and extensive pattern tests & research. I have come to believe a number of things about buckshot. Obviously, it is not a long range weapon. If you expect shots over 40 yds., you need a different load. The most often asked questions are, how far will it kill & how many pellets does it take to kill a deer? The answer is, it depends. Up to some predetermined range, it will kill as far as you can place an adequate number of buckshot in the vitals of a deer. The main limiting factors are, buckshot rapidly looses velocity & energy & that very tight patterns defeat the advantage of buckshot, which is it produces a pattern. If that's what you want, shoot a slug.
This is just my opinion & you are perfectly entitled to disagree. If you prove me wrong, it won't be the first time & likely not the last.
I have found that "OO" & "OOO" tends to pattern better & definitely penetrates better than smaller sizes. How many pellets? I have seen 1 pellet kill more than one buck but that's the exception. 3 or 4 will likely do the job more often than not. A lot of people have told me that this is overkill but I like to see 8 large size buckshot in the heart lung area.
I have killed as many or more deer hunting with a rifle which I definitely prefer when still hunting or hunting from a tree stand. I like to hunt with a muzzle loader with the patched round ball.

I grew up in Orangeburg county, so I know what you mean about the drive hunting. Personally, I never understood the appeal, but Ok.

I disagree with you on bait being the most effective means though. Been living and hunting in the Flinthills region of Kansas more than 20 years now and a pile of corn out there isn't gonna do anything for you. This is the richest agricultural region in the country. Where I hunt, there is so much milo, soybeans, corn and Winter wheat growing at any given time that the deer aren't even going to notice a bait pile. Feeders aren't even legal here as far as I know, nobody uses them if they are.

During the rut, movements are unpredictable, but I have had no problems getting very close shots on deer on public land that anybody can walk out onto and hunt. It just takes doing a little homework to figure them out, never seen a need to drive or bait.

I almost wish buckshot were legal here, I'd like to give it a try. Probably 50% or better of the deer I shoot are in range for it.

[skeettx]

North Louisiana
Stalking in wetland area, going slow
Browning Citori 12 gauge, 26" barrel, fixed IC/Mod chokes
#4 Buck 3" 12 gauge
Dead deer, no tracking, DRT
https://ammo.com/bullet-type/4-buck
Mike

Oh, yes, distance, less than 20 yards :)

[GEOMETRIC]

Hey Rich,
I saw the same thing here last year. There were not any large agricultural fields where I was hunting but the acorn crop was so big, a deer couldn't walk without crunching acorns. They had no interest in corn. You have to modify your tactics to fit the conditions. I don't recall ever killing a deer over bait but that is what I see everybody doing. I hesitate to say this because I don't want to encourage anybody to shoot at deer over 40 yds. with buckshot but I have developed buckshot loads with "OOO" in my 10 ga. SXS Beretta that will put 8 out of 16 "OOO" pellets close enough together at 60 yds. that you can cover them with one hand. Note that this is a gun specific load. I have 4, 3.5" 10 ga. SXS doubles & they all pattern differently. I don't like to shoot at deer that far with buck shot but that gives me a margin of error if I miss judge the range. I have made a number of instant one shot kills with my 12 ga. L.C. Smith, which has put the whole load of 12, "OO" in a deer's chest cavity at about 40 yds., more than a few times. Pattern your gun, what you see is what you get!
I prefer to still hunt with my muzzle loader with a .535 cal. patched round ball but I get invited to hunt on a dog drive occasionally. It is a nice change of pace on occasion. Rifle hunting around here just caught on some time in the 70's. When I was a kid, buckshot & hounds was pretty much all there was.

[Huntsman]

I like the 1885. You're shooting smokless or black?

Smokeless- IMR 4198 - 250gr cast boolit.
The same powder with a 220gr Hornady is deadly accurate at 100yds

[fingers284]

Is that a Sask jubilee 94. I had one of those and the **** chamber was to tight to allow seating anything larger than .375 and the bore slugged at .377 wouldn't group worth a dang...sure is cool around here these days isn't it (-37 at my place this am), too **** cold for shooting anyways...

[Dinny]

I always have wanted to shoot a deer with some of Dixie's Tri-Ball buckshot.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

Thanks, Dinny

[Shingle]

You were about maxed out on the lethal range on buckshot. Iv seen countless people shot with it and its not impressive unless the range is under 30FT. Nice deer.

[pmer]

In general home defense 00 buck is different than hunting 00 buck shot. Hunting buck is assembled to pattern tighter using harder shot or copper platted balls. And a lot of times they use shot buffer and hulls all designed to keep the column together a little longer after it leaves the shot gun. A modified choke can help but it takes a few shots to see how far your gun can shoot it.

Home defense 00 buck doesn't have the extras and is usually fired in a IC choke. It's cheaper and that would be better if your gun can shoot it good at some distance.

I'd like to try it but can't where I hunt. I think I read somewhere that varmit hunters with the right setup can reach out to 75 yards, maybe more?

[pworley1]

Congratulations.

[jonp]

Funny you ask, there is zero requirement to use a shotgun where I was hunting. In fact when I put the same pic up on a forum here everyone was quite surprised that I used one. The only restrictions are calibers less than .24 and no use of non expanding bullets.

Are you saying no solids as in no lead boolits or are they just wanting FMJ's out of the picture?

That's a nice deer, congrats

[GEOMETRIC]

Ditto for what pmer said. I never saw anybody shot with buckshot & hope I never do. I don't know what a self defense/police buckshot load will do but I do know what my buckshot loads will do. I have pretty near a perfect one shot kill record using buckshot on deer. My best loads will produce instant one shot kills at 40 yds. over 90% of the time & more often than not at 60 yds. The reason has a lot to do with the fact that I don't shoot at deer at marginal ranges & if I don't think I can make a clean kill, I don't shoot. A deer standing broadside is a lot easier to kill with buckshot than one running straight away or coming straight at you. The biggest problem with buckshot is not the buckshot but the people that use it. The majority of buckshot hunters will bang away at any deer they see at impossible ranges. Their chances of killing it is nil but I hate to think how many are wounded & die as a result. If you don't shoot, he will usually come back later & you have a chance to get a good shot. Wound him & you will never see him again & likely, we have lost another deer to stupidity. Please don't shoot at deer at 100 yds. with buckshot. You have almost no chance of making the kill but buckshot still has enough energy to inflict a wound that will later become lethal.

[richhodg66]

"The biggest problem with buckshot is not the buckshot but the people that use it."

This could be said of pretty much any weapon system out there.

[Huntsman]

Is that a Sask jubilee 94. I had one of those and the **** chamber was to tight to allow seating anything larger than .375 and the bore slugged at .377 wouldn't group worth a dang...sure is cool around here these days isn't it (-37 at my place this am), too **** cold for shooting anyways...

That’s the Alberta Diamond Jubilee model 94 with Williams FP sight.
I’m shooting the Hornady 220gr FN out of her.
Just left gods country yesterday and visiting family here in Saskatchistan ;)

[Huntsman]

Are you saying no solids as in no lead boolits or are they just wanting FMJ's out of the picture?

That's a nice deer, congrats

Thank you.
No what I meant was here in Alberta (western Canada) there is no specific shotgun only areas or seasons. In most Wildlife Management Units the firearm hunting season for big game starts November 1st. Archery starts September 1st to October 31st.
So for November it’s generally rifle rifle rifle, one can use muzzleloader or shotgun if they choose but most (except me :) ) use there rifle. Crossbow in Alberta is only allowed during rifle season.
I hope this answers your question.
Happy Holidays

[jonp]

The "no use of non-expanding bullets" is what caught my eye. It sounded to me like they wanted Hollow Points, Poly Tipped etc. Stuff designed to expand unlike FMJ's or ball.

[GEOMETRIC]

richhodg66,
True, but it is more true with buckshot than anything else. I don't know of any weapon system that is as misunderstood by as many people.

[fingers284]

The "no use of non-expanding bullets" is what caught my eye. It sounded to me like they wanted Hollow Points, Poly Tipped etc. Stuff designed to expand unlike FMJ's or ball.

The local hunting regs. we have is somewhat vague in their definition of "non-expanding". For years it did mean FMJ (read that to mean military surp) was not allowed for hunting and that thought is still in general use however as in all things with an internet following there have been a few "Definition Nazi's" trying to stir the pot and claim a strict reading of the def. would include any hard cast as well as a # of the newfangled single composition gilded metal offerings on the market. Their reasoning is that if they are driven at anything less that top-end velocity (something we ,as handloaders sometimes do LOL) that they wont expand.

I have to say, with my own experience with a dozen or so deer shot with hard cast that the exit hole from a slowly pushed slug will either be the same size as the entrance hole or will be key-hole shaped from a tumbling bullet...either way it is always a complete pass through at ranges from 75-245 yrds...I will also say that not one of those deer went more than 4 or 5 jumps after the impact.

[GEOMETRIC]

Obviously, the smaller a bullet is, the more it is dependent on bullet expansion for making, clean humane kills. I never liked loads that blow the whole shoulder of a deed to scrap. I recall a deer I once killed with a .537 cal. patched RB. It couldn't have been more precisely placed in the center of the heart if I had used a micrometer caliper but the deer ran about 50 yds.. The appropriate solid doesn't always kill instantly but it invariably kills reliably with proper bullet placement. A pure lead projectile is said to be cohesive & doesn't fragment. Sam Fadala writes in his book, "Black Powder Loading Manual", "I have shot clear through elk, bison, & big mule deer etc. , with round balls of the 50-to 54- caliber class----". He also states that the idea that the round ball achieves less penetration at higher velocities (black powder velocities) than lower speeds, "seems to be false based on my own field experience". This is only valid for pure lead projectiles at BP velocities but it's something to think about.

[starmac]

Growing up in East Texas buckshot was king, I don't think I ever saw a rifle in the woods back then.
it seemed most old timers used a single shot too, there were some pumps and doubles, but I just remember a lot of them having singles.
I have an old stevens single shot with the fullest choke I think I have ever seen, IT will not shoot 00 buck period, it scatters it right out the end of the barrel.