Ok, doesn't anyone have a gun in dinosaur movies?

[AbitNutz]

Just watched "Jurassic World" with my grandson. BTW, it should be called cretaceous world...Jurassic was the wrong era.

The freakin' dinosaurs eat people non-stop. I'm of the opinion that any redneck behind a good 450 Nitro Express or any Barret light 50, would be the NEW reason the dinosaurs went extinct. After all, they aren't bullet proof and a Tyrannosaurus Rex weighed about the same as an African bull elephant.

In all the dino movies I've ever seen, no one ever takes a shot at one and if they do, it's like they're armor plated. The only reason you wouldn't want to shoot a brachiosaur with an Abrams tank in Cincinnati is because it would go right through it and likely blow up a building in Cleveland. I live in Ohio...you remember a couple of years ago some lunatic let loose a bunch of exotic African cats, Tigers, Lions and bears (Oh, my!)? The local constabulary wiped them all out in about 45 minutes...and believe me, there were no big game hunters, mad scientists or zoologists involved, just a bunch of small town cops with local hardware.

Let's just say that giant rock hadn't piled into the earth 65 million years ago and now your property borders, not on some nosy neighbors but on a nature reserve that hosts protected endangered species like Tyrannosaurus Rex and Triceratops...what would you use to keep them from bumbling through your wife's vegetable garden or eating the family dog?

Yeah, football sux tonight...and my apologies if you're a creationist. Just use this as a mental exercise.

[Geezer in NH]

It seems you must have slept through it. The main character carried a marlin guide gun, the hello had a mini gun etc.

[Davy Sprocket]

A good way to fund that theme park would be to set up an African Safari kinda deal. People could pay to hunt herbivores. Think of all the meat on one of the things.

[brtelec]

You should bring your custom rifle in 577 Tyrannosaur or 600 Overkill.

[Jack Stanley]

I just sooth myself by thinking it's hollywierd and what do they know about guns .

Hard cast and heavy loaded .45 rifle rounds and I'd think we'd have steaks on the grill easier than the Flintstones .

Jack

[Beagle333]

I'm thinkin' a 200 yard shot right into their walnut sized brain with a 208gr A-max from my .308NM should reduced it to an issue of how to skin it.

[lwknight]

I wonder if dino meat would be more like shark or frog?
I sell propane but still put my money that grilled over coals would be the best bet for dino meat.

[mongoose33]

Why don't they have a gun? It should be obvious:

Guns weren't invented yet when dinosaurs walked the earth! :)

[Cowboy_Dan]

A good way to fund that theme park would be to set up an African Safari kinda deal. People could pay to hunt herbivores. Think of all the meat on one of the things.

I've said for years that if I came into possesion of that island I would turn it into a safari. Wall it off into a few areas of varying danger and make sure that I couldn't be sued in the home countries of any patrons who don't come back from the hunting fields. Plus you don't have to worry about running out of inventory because you have the means to make more.

As to the op hypothetical and only using what I actually own, I would always have the Mosin loaded up for the beasts mentioned, but I would always have my Simonov at hand in case of Raptors.

[Aunegl]

Probably the dinos taste just like chicken.

[Lead Fred]

152908

Yea tho I walk though the valley of Jurassic World, I fear not, fore my 45/70 Marlin GG comforts me.

I keep saying, it will kill anything that walks on the planet, current or in the past

[oldblinddog]

Probably the dinos taste just like chicken.

A chicken is a dino, so, yeah!

[Hannibal]

Shot placement. A 400 grain bullet in the shoulder and even Godzilla won't go far. Now, If'n your shot ain't on spot, then I reckon you're likely to become intimately familiar with the bowls of a dinosaur in a bad for you way.

[Mk42gunner]

I think I would use a .35 Whelen or a .358 Norma Magnum with a ~300ish grain monolithic solid; whichever shot the most accurately, those brains are pretty little.

If a cast boolit would give enough penetration, that would be fine; cheaper garden protection.

Robert

[Hannibal]

Head shots are primo. However, ever try to shoot a chicken or turkey in the head? Yep. That thing is always movin'. Now. I have not seen a living, breathing dinosaur. But iffin' I do, I'm aimin' for the dog-gone shoulder.

YMMV.

[Grump]

The "How it should have ended" website has the Wizard of Oz ending with one of the local Constabulary sincerely shooting the second wicked witch in the head before her first meeting with Dorothy ends.

No yellow Brick Road. Never meets the Scarecrow. Short movie. Good scriptwriting seems to require people who get themselves into trouble with no easy way out.

I like easy ways out in cases of gravest extreme. Right to for the right job.

[Hannibal]

the "how it should have ended" website has the wizard of oz ending with one of the local constabulary sincerely shooting the second wicked witch in the head before her first meeting with dorothy ends.

No yellow brick road. Never meets the scarecrow. Short movie. Good scriptwriting seems to require people who get themselves into trouble with no easy way out.

I like easy ways out in cases of gravest extreme. Right to for the right job.

nicely done.

[snglstack]

In the book "Danger: Dinosaurs!" they used a thirty thirty and a 1911.

[Bigslug]

I sell propane but still put my money that grilled over coals would be the best bet for dino meat.

Nah. Gotta go with propane. You miss the irony in using extinct dinosaurs as fuel to cook GMO dinosaurs.

[AbitNutz]

Assuming you could stand your ground on a charging Tyrannosaur...can you imagine the look on the giant chickens face when you shoulder an old English double in 470 Nitro Express and blow it off his head?...Priceless! Welcome to the 21st century....

[Lloyd Smale]

they all should have had 475s or 500s on there hip. I wonder what trex back strap tastes like?

[Lloyd Smale]

Look a bit closer. It is a marlin but its a wild west custom gun. Looks like one of there PILOT models.
It seems you must have slept through it. The main character carried a marlin guide gun, the hello had a mini gun etc.

[AbitNutz]

I like the Wild West lever they have but I wouldn't hunt a combination of an elephant, crocodile and a tiger with one. I'm thinking English double or something that can drop solids on it from a bit longer range...like 378 Weatherby or an improved 416 Rigby.

Funny how this silly topic is on its second page in like 12 hours...I guess every little kid wants to hunt dinosaurs.

[popper]

You forget that without all the yelling, screaming and freaking out, there would be no DRAMA in the movies, thus NO audience, hence, no $$. Actually it's the small 'dinos' that would get you, plus hungry snakes and large spiders. The belief now is that the T Rex was a scavenger, front legs weren't strong enough to bring down a lunch.

[Tackleberry41]

It is a movie. Most of us here know it would be difficult to find anything living that can take that many 45-70 rds and keep going. Yea it was big, but you can take down elephants with them, so not seeing where it would be much different.

And how many 7.62 and 5.56 rds did they throw at it? By the end of the movie it had enough lead in it to make pencils from it. After that firefight it should have crawled off somewhere to bleed out, not keep going like nothing happened. It would have been bleeding internally, broken bones.

The mini gun, a quick burst and no more dinosaur. Not really sure how they could miss with it, but they did. Its a really really big target. And sort of like a hose, just shift it a little. But then what sort of movie would it be?

[AbitNutz]

New movie idea! "Dinosaur Extermination!" Staring several herds of gigantic man eating dinosaurs and one red neck with an M3 Bradley. Also several meat processing plants.

[Hannibal]

they all should have had 475s or 500s on there hip. I wonder what trex back strap tastes like?

I'm betting chicken. Supposedly, their closest living relatives are fowl, so why not?

[AbitNutz]

Imagine the number of people that could be fed by a single brachiosaur leg? This could appeal to both conservative and liberal alike. Blowing away dinosaurs to feed the poor could bring the country together.

[Blackwater]

The OP question applies to an awful lot of movies, particularly the dramas where some predator, 2-legged or otherwise, stalks people who, if they just had a gun, could and likely would end the affair without all the drama. Of course, that wouldn't make for a suspenseful movie, so ..... we get what they produce in Hollywood now, and that ain't likely to change. Very few people really THINK today, so they get away with it. It's almost as though people are being steadily TRAINED to not think, and just do what "policy" says they're supposed to do. And none of us is impervious to it.

Man has always survived by thinking about his predicaments, and as far as possible, being prepared for what he knew was possible or likely for him to encounter. We've quit doing that, for the most part, though there are knuckle draggers like me and others here who still do our best to live by the "old rules." Even so, none of us are totally unaffected by all this. I find myself thinking in ways that I know I shouldn't from time to time. I just have to catch myself, smile a wry grin at catching myself with my hands in the cookie jar, and change direction of thought. Men in the 'wild west' typically carried guns of some type because they weren't as dumb and indoctrinated as many of us "moderns" are today.

And with the gov't consistently TRYING to eliminate all civilian possession and use of guns of any type, I fear for the world my grandsons will inherit. My generation started the decline, though there's always been influences trying to quash what the Founders gave us. It's never been so commonly accepted as it is today, though, and mostly, I think, because people prefer thinking what they WANT to rather than finding out what's really good for them. Lunacy isn't very uncommon today, and it applies in all sorts of ways and forms.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

A professional hunter in Jurassic Park II or III had a SPAS automatic shotgun, possibly loaded with explosive or narcotic shells. But it didn't save him from getting killed when the approximately man-sized velociraptors wised up enough to hunt as a team.

Those escaped animals in the US weren't hunting man, and had learned to think of man, if not a friend, as a harmless bystander. The Jurassic Park large predators were probably far less intelligent and had been kept away from humans. Their vital parts were far less well documented, as a target, than those of the elephant, and it is likely that like crocodiles etc., a lot more of their nervous functions were carried out in the nervous system outside the brain. Given a safe place and time to observe what happened, I expect my little Mannlicher-Schoenauer would do the job. But nobody knows how quickly a shot even to that tiny brain would kill a tyrannosaurus. The assumption that the far larger herbivores were inoffensive also seems a bit optimistic to me. Cape buffalo don't want meat either.

There is a piece of mathematics I did about shooting elephant, if your technique gave you a 99% chance of coming out on your feet. Shoot ten elephant, and you have a 90.4% chance of staying alive. But do it 1011 times, like WDM Bell did, and either you have a .00387% chance of survival, or you have worked out something a lot better than a 99% chance each time. I would want something mighty reliable with a dinosaur.

[Ola]

But do it 1011 times, like WDM Bell did, and either you have a .00387% chance of survival, or you have worked out something a lot better than a 99% chance each time. I would want something mighty reliable with a dinosaur. The most interesting thing was Bells favorite caliber: majority of the elephants were shot with a 7x57. FMJ bullet through the brain.

[Harter66]

I'd just like to mention that I think I would take a hip out on velociraptors or T Rex ,I don't think the shoulder shot on ol Rex would do much damage let alone slow him down . The best option is of course to separate the brain from the body and stay away from the head and tail . An AR 10 in 338 Federal or 358 Win might be a good start maybe a Garand .......... not that a 45-70 Gatlin gun would hurt my feelings any .

Gators can be finished with a 22 LR but I've read about Crocs thrashing around 12 hrs after a 458 disconnected all blood and spinal functions from the head . I've chased down a headless duck on the wing too.

[AbitNutz]

The movies give waay too much credit to the brains of Velociraptor. They were as smart as a modern chicken and we all know how many people are killed by chickens every year. Well, OK, KFC kills millions but that's due to cholesterol. They also weren't what was portrayed in any of the movies. The real Velociraptor was only a couple of feet tall, not 6 feet tall. They changed the name of Deinonychus to Velociraptor because it sounded cooler and while Deinonychus was the best of them, he wasn't any brain trust.

[RogerDat]

Assuming you could stand your ground on a charging Tyrannosaur...can you imagine the look on the giant chickens face when you shoulder an old English double in 470 Nitro Express and blow it off his head?...Priceless! Welcome to the 21st century....

And I hope this clears up any questions regarding our relative positions on the food chain for those of you who actually had questions about lizard/chicken vs. man with a gun.

[Bigslug]

Imagine the number of people that could be fed by a single brachiosaur leg? This could appeal to both conservative and liberal alike. Blowing away dinosaurs to feed the poor could bring the country together.

Of course, leaving all of the liberals to get EATEN by dinosaurs would have the same effect...

[AbitNutz]

The thinking now is that the atmosphere in the Cretaceous when the majority of dinosaurs lived, not the Jurassic, was quite different. The air pressure itself may have been double what it is today, perhaps as much as 30 psi instead of 14.7. This may have been what allowed giant dinosaurs to fly. Also the percentage of oxygen in the air today is about 21%. 65 million years ago it was upwards of 40%. This would have had several effects on a human that happened to show up there...using your favorite science fiction method. Most folks would have much increased physical endurance and...lighting a match could be quite interesting. Or, firing a gun...Think we have a muzzle flash now? I bet a nice black powder burn would look like a bazooka.

Setting off a large case capacity round, like a 470 Nitro Express, at a charging Tyrannosaur would not only put a large hole in his tiny brained head but probably set him on fire and burn off all his pin feathers.

Can you imagine seeing "Big Bird" running around in flames?

Conversely, an animal that needs an atmosphere of 30 psi and 40% oxygen landing in a world that has half that would be like your old uncle Cleophus with stage 4 emphysema standing on the summit of MT Everest. You could probably walk over to the prostate beast and leisurely beat him to death with a 9 iron. I don't think that would make a great movie.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Velociraptor is a genus, not a species, and they probably had the characteristic of reptiles and fish, of growing in adult life. If someone reports seeing a tiger the size of a steer, you can be pretty sure he has strayed into the non-factual. But with a crocodile or anaconda, you never know.

Crichton the novelist and Spielberg did indeed substitute the characteristics of the family to which the velociraptors belong, and exaggerated their size (although the ones then known were probably quite dangerous). That may be why they turned to calling them raptors in subsequent movies, unless the importance of merchandising had taken hold and they thought five syllables were too many for the target demographic. But a velociraptor closely resembling the movie version (except that they probably all had feathers) was discovered in Utah, far from their hitherto known range, during the production of the movie.

Intelligence is all relative, and we are not talking ability to do differential calculus. A falcon is no more intelligent than a chicken, and greyhounds, which any self-respecting border collie considers the mental defectives of the dog world, will methodically hunt in pairs. A whippet will freeze when the hare's ears go up, and tiptoe forwards when they are down, and a terrier with a brain the size of two walnuts will methodically raise a false someone-at-the-door alarm to get a larger dog out of the warm spot by the fire. There is no evidence against velociraptors having dangerously higher intelligence than the normal reptile.

None of this exceeds the level of artistic license appropriate to a film which depends on cloning dinosaurs from blood found in mosquito stomachs.

Bell's bullets for elephant were not only solids, but heavy for their caliber, and round-nosed, and he was quite emphatic about his small calibres not being suitable for the casual safari hunter. He probably preferred the .318 Westley Richards (virtually duplicated by the .338-06), but came to it late, and while he loved the 6.5x54 carbine for its lightness in pursuit, his use of it was limited by a batch of unsatisfactory cartridges. For deer in Scotland he became a fervent admirer of the .220 Swift, largely confined to neck shots.

But Bell believed in the right bullet more than the right rifle, and was a consummate anatomist. It would be real, bonfires-on-the-ice negligence for any elephant hunter to ignore his drawings and writings, illustrating such things as how to get at the brain from a ¾ rear angle, and he considered the complex of blood vessels above the heart, more than the heart itself, a good target for those small solids. None of this is documented for dinosaurs.

A muzzle flash is due to flammable gases emerging from the oxygen-starved environment of the brain, and encountering atmospheric oxygen. But the difference with a gas-jet or candle flame is that they provide a continuous flow of combustible material, while the rifle provides only the same momentary burp of the stuff which the cartridge contained. If the flash is brighter due to a greater concentration of oxygen, it will also be briefer and smaller.

One of the effects of high oxygen levels is to cause euphoria, and like alcohol, a falsely optimistic view of our own abilities. That is all very fine and well when the beast is down and being photographed, and your time machine is warming up le for the trip home. But it could be disastrous when that tiny brain and large teeth are bouncing up and down on their way towards you.

[AbitNutz]

Meh...I still think a couple of red necks with AR15's could wipe'm all out inside of about 5 minutes. Then of course, they would proceed to shoot the beer bottles off each others heads and...well, as you said, intelligence is relative.

[BAGTIC]

Dinosaurs were the ancestors of birds therefore they should taste like chicken.

[BAGTIC]

A .308 should do fine. Actually anything powerful enough to rupture an eyeball would probably be sufficient to provide protection.

Similar question, why do people in zombie movies continue to shoot them anywhere other than the head? A high capacity .22 LR is the ideal anti-zombie weapon. Answer: Zombie movies are written and directed by people with the mentality of zombies.

[44man]

What nobody ever sees is the earth was very small back then with less gravity. Larger plants and animals with more oxygen.
Now we drill thousands of feet to reach the oil and gas their bodies left. Back then the earth was a tiny marble. They could not survive today.
But the joke in the movies is boolit proof animals. That sucker would not stand from my revolver.
His weight alone today would crush him. T Rex could not live now. The dust in my house shows how much larger the earth gets every day. More mass, more gravity. No wonder getting old is so hard!

[BAGTIC]

Jurassic? Cretaceous? http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/jurassic/

[AbitNutz]

What nobody ever sees is the earth was very small back then with less gravity. Larger plants and animals with more oxygen.
Now we drill thousands of feet to reach the oil and gas their bodies left. Back then the earth was a tiny marble. They could not survive today.
But the joke in the movies is boolit proof animals. That sucker would not stand from my revolver.
His weight alone today would crush him. T Rex could not live now. The dust in my house shows how much larger the earth gets every day. More mass, more gravity. No wonder getting old is so hard!

Hmm...interesting point of view but I'm afraid that the Earth was the same mass pretty much all along...at least after a huge collision caused a large chunk to be blown off into Earth orbit, which we now call the moon. The Earth's gravity has been constant.

[AbitNutz]

Jurassic? Cretaceous? http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/jurassic/


Velociraptor (/vɨˈlɒsɨræptər/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English); meaning "swift seizer")[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#cite_note-osborn1924a-1) is a genus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus) of dromaeosaurid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromaeosauridae) theropod (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theropoda) dinosaur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur) that lived approximately 75 to 71 million years ago (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Million_years_ago) during the later part of the Cretaceous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous) Period (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Period_%28geology%29).[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velociraptor#cite_note-PGetal2008-2) Two species are currently recognized, although others have been assigned in the past. The type species (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_species) is V. mongoliensis; fossils (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil) of this species have been discovered in Mongolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolia). A second species, V. osmolskae, was named in 2008 for skull material from Inner Mongolia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia), China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China).


Most dinosaurs lived in the Cretaceous.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Dino guns? I can have fun with this idea! I think a good .308 battle rifle would serve well for most of the critters. How about an MG42? Not exactly a shoulder fired weapon but nothing can argue with that rate of fire. A Mk 19 grenade launcher would do a number on any of them. An M82A1 should send about anything for a dirt nap. I would still be happy with something like a .338 Lapua mag bolt gun or even a Mosin with the famed PZ round.
Dino is whats for dinner!

[AbitNutz]

Like has been said...tastes like chicken!

[AbitNutz]

Maybe we should design a Dinosaur specific rifle. Called something like...GCK...Giant Chicken Killer.

I suggest starting with one of the larger magnum cases with a .591 base diameter, with a length of 3 inches (I like real long necks), Weatherby double radius shoulder (I just like the way it looks) and a tungsten cored bullet of .375 diameter. 375 seems like a good compromise of big damn hole, penetration and decent B/C.

It would be just plain fun to start dropping these on a T-Rex at a few hundred yards. Dance big bird! Dance! Papa's going to be eatin' chicken tonight!

[Ola]

T-Rex hunting would be special. Maybe the gun should be special too? Like a bolt action double rifle?

http://fuchsfineguns.com/index.php/guns/mokume/

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What nobody ever sees is the earth was very small back then with less gravity. Larger plants and animals with more oxygen.
Now we drill thousands of feet to reach the oil and gas their bodies left. Back then the earth was a tiny marble. They could not survive today.
But the joke in the movies is boolit proof animals. That sucker would not stand from my revolver.
His weight alone today would crush him. T Rex could not live now. The dust in my house shows how much larger the earth gets every day. More mass, more gravity. No wonder getting old is so hard!

Here is a large chunk of the Cretaceous world, which shows a conspicuous absence of deep burial or bursting at the seams. Oil deposits were formed from plankton, not dinosaurs, and mostly preceded them. The detachment of the moon very greatly preceded them, and since then the earth has closely followed the Law of Conservation of Matter, which broadly says that everything has to be somewhere. Even if the available amount of matter were compressed into a smaller sphere (and most of it is virtually incompressible), that wouldn't alter its gravitational pull. There has been much dispute about whether the tyrannosaurus may have been a scavenger, incapable of very fast running at all, and whether the great vegetarian dinosaurs had to live most of the time in supporting water. But gravity had nothing to do with it.

153065

There is an old Arab proverb which says that a man may admire a thing much, until it comes time to buy it. I agree that the apparent invulnerability of dinosaurs in the movies is excessive, but I think many a person's confidence in his firearm of choice would very rightly evaporate if he were invited to oblige by firing it at an available dinosaur. I think it would work, but I would want a tall, strong tree to do it from.

[44man]

The smaller planet or moon has less gravity, look at moon gravity. Now look at Jupiter's gravity.
If the earth never got larger from all the space dust and asteroids, why dig hundreds of feet to find bones. Where did all the water come from?
True plant life made most oil but why so deep, it did not sink. Coal the same.
Nobody measured the earth's gravity billions of years ago.
If the earth never got larger, we would pick up everything on the surface.
The idea of the moon being torn from earth is just theory, it could have formed from rings of space debris. Maybe earth got larger from impacts then but it was far from life being here.
Our moon was made larger then at first too from all the impacts on it.
Earth WAS smaller when T Rex walked it. Oil and coal does not form on the surface, it needs weight.

[tazman]

Not necessarily. The surface plates were shifting then and still are today. Lots and lots of volcanic eruptions occurred with the associated dust and ash. This brought matter from the inside to the outside and buried the surface. Earthquakes pushed up mountains that were worn to dust by the wind and blown around covering everything.
The total size didn't change except for a few meteors that didn't significantly change the size or mass of the earth.
There are lots of ways the earth could naturally bury the surface without outside help.

[StolzerandSons]

Hmm...interesting point of view but I'm afraid that the Earth was the same mass pretty much all along...at least after a huge collision caused a large chunk to be blown off into Earth orbit, which we now call the moon. The Earth's gravity has been constant.
I'm curious about this collision that blew a large chunk off we now call the moon? How exactly did this happen? How did both objects end up being a sphere, I mean when one object hits another in the way you are talking about, I doubt it would remove a sphere shaped chunk in the resulting collision. And what about the hole left from the collision, how did that get rounded back to a nice sphere shape like we have today?

Ohh and one last question, if it was part of the earth, why doesn't it have the same composition as the earth?

As for the original post, in Jurassic park II Roland the professional hunter carried a Butch Searcy .600 Nitro Express.
http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/a/a6/JP2600nitro-3.jpg/601px-JP2600nitro-3.jpg

Or there is the 2 Bore that I build.
in a single:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj75/cstolzer338/2%20Bore%20Underlever/Finished/IMG_0020.jpg
or a double:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj75/cstolzer338/2%20Bore%20Double%20Rifle/Finished/ActionOpen_zpsfc5d2bd2.jpg

Of course many, many elephants have been poached with AK47's...so maybe quantity over diameter is the way to go.

[Echale3]

Not to be flippant or sound dismissive, 44man, but you really should read up on basic geology.

The long and short of it is that the surface of the earth is continually being remodeled through the action of tectonic plate movement, volcanism, erosion, and sedimentation. What's on the surface now won't necessarily be given time--it may have eroded away as sediment or been buried under sediment or volcanic rock and ash. It may have been shoved back down towards the center of the earth as tectonic plates crash into each other.

Tectonic plates are constantly moving, at the edges always being shoved up from the depths in some areas and being shoved down into the depths in others as the case may be. Collisions between tectonic plates give rise to mountains, rain erodes mountains and carries sediment into valleys, filling them in over time. Volcanoes erupt, blasting magma and ash all over the place. See how that works?

The earth was NOT smaller when T Rex was alive, the overall mass of the earth is pretty much constant, it's just that the surface has been significantly remodeled due to natural action over millions of intervening years...

[45-70 Chevroner]

T-Rex hunting would be special. Maybe the gun should be special too? Like a bolt action double rifle?

http://fuchsfineguns.com/index.php/guns/mokume/
Now that's a RIFLE!!!!!!!

[Cowboy_Dan]

I'm curious about this collision that blew a large chunk off we now call the moon? How exactly did this happen? How did both objects end up being a sphere, I mean when one object hits another in the way you are talking about, I doubt it would remove a sphere shaped chunk in the resulting collision. And what about the hole left from the collision, how did that get rounded back to a nice sphere shape like we have today?

Ohh and one last question, if it was part of the earth, why doesn't it have the same composition as the earth?


The theory is that 4-ish thousand million years ago, when earth was young and a bit smaller than it is today, there was another planetid in or around our orbit. This other object, Theia, and the young earth collided and coalesced, throwing off a much smaller amount of material. The new, larger earth (at this point approximately its current size) became rounded through gravitational forces, as did the moon as it coalesced from the thrown off ring of material from the collision.

As far as the composition goes, I'm not sure, but I think (may be wrong) if you look more than a few feet deep on either you do get mostly the same stuff. Another possibility is that the moon is largely made of pieces of Theia and not pieces of proto-earth.

Last thing: 44man, the dust in your house doesn't come from space, the vast majority of it was part of your skin only days ago.

[Echale3]

Now that's a RIFLE!!!!!!!

I like that it has a left-hand buttstock on it, too.... Lefties (such as myself) make up somewhere about 8%-10% of the population, so why are there so few left-handed things being made?

[StolzerandSons]

Cowboy Dan,
Those were mostly rhetorical questions, I'm fairly familiar with the various theories regarding the moon. According to most of the information(peer reviewed science) I've read, the moon being chunk blown off the earth is the least probable way.

[StolzerandSons]

I like that it has a left-hand buttstock on it, too.... Lefties (such as myself) make up somewhere about 8%-10% of the population, so why are there so few left-handed things being made?
Cost of tooling. If a manufacturer makes one-off products it's no big deal to make a L/H product versus a R/H product but if a company is tooling up with dedicated machines it doesn't really work financially to have a second set of tooling/machines for only a 8-10% marketable product. Most L/H products are also more expensive because it takes a company longer to recover their investment cost.

[Just Duke]

Just watched "Jurassic World" with my grandson. BTW, it should be called cretaceous world...Jurassic was the wrong era.

The freakin' dinosaurs eat people non-stop. I'm of the opinion that any redneck behind a good 450 Nitro Express or any Barret light 50, would be the NEW reason the dinosaurs went extinct. After all, they aren't bullet proof and a Tyrannosaurus Rex weighed about the same as an African bull elephant.

In all the dino movies I've ever seen, no one ever takes a shot at one and if they do, it's like they're armor plated. The only reason you wouldn't want to shoot a brachiosaur with an Abrams tank in Cincinnati is because it would go right through it and likely blow up a building in Cleveland. I live in Ohio...you remember a couple of years ago some lunatic let loose a bunch of exotic African cats, Tigers, Lions and bears (Oh, my!)? The local constabulary wiped them all out in about 45 minutes...and believe me, there were no big game hunters, mad scientists or zoologists involved, just a bunch of small town cops with local hardware.

Let's just say that giant rock hadn't piled into the earth 65 million years ago and now your property borders, not on some nosy neighbors but on a nature reserve that hosts protected endangered species like Tyrannosaurus Rex and Triceratops...what would you use to keep them from bumbling through your wife's vegetable garden or eating the family dog?

Yeah, football sux tonight...and my apologies if you're a creationist. Just use this as a mental exercise.
Given size and weight these reptilians would have had a longevity on possibly 1000 years to attain the size they are.
You could always follow them and eat their eggs though if you didn't want anymore around.

[Echale3]

Cost of tooling. If a manufacturer makes one-off products it's no big deal to make a L/H product versus a R/H product but if a company is tooling up with dedicated machines it doesn't really work financially to have a second set of tooling/machines for only a 8-10% marketable product. Most L/H products are also more expensive because it takes a company longer to recover their investment cost.

I can see that... With CNC machining from either billet or a basic casting, though, it seems like the tooling issue more or less falls by the wayside because the same tool would do the same thing, you just flip the coordinates in the programming, et voila, a left-handed part. Maybe I'm overly simplifying it, though, not being a machinist, you know.....

It's a conspiracy, I tell you, a damnable conspiracy!!!! :lol: :kidding:

[44man]

The earth was out of balance and poles shifted, tectonics do not account for much except mountains rising to bring what was deep below closer to the surface. Soon plate movement will take kaifornia into the sea. The earth is like an out of balance boolit spinning like mad to reach a stable condition.
You can't prove earth was the same size. It was proven most dust comes from space. The earth grows. You vacuum and keep ahead but where does the dirt go? Landfill that gets higher every. day.

[Just Duke]

What nobody ever sees is the earth was very small back then with less gravity. Larger plants and animals with more oxygen.
Now we drill thousands of feet to reach the oil and gas their bodies left. Back then the earth was a tiny marble. They could not survive today.
But the joke in the movies is boolit proof animals

That all comes from the word "fossil fuels" a euphemism and not actually related to the death and decay of carbon based life forms supposedly percolating into the earths mantle and penetrating 4000 feet of shale rock.
We only speculate where oil actually comes from. We speculate how we got here and what happens after we pass.

[Just Duke]

The earth was out of balance and poles shifted, tectonics do not account for much except mountains rising to bring what was deep below closer to the surface. Soon plate movement will take kaifornia into the sea. The earth is like an out of balance boolit spinning like mad to reach a stable condition.
You can't prove earth was the same size. It was proven most dust comes from space. The earth grows. You vacuum and keep ahead but where does the dirt go? Landfill that gets higher every. day.
The mountains are formed by seduction zones do to cooling and shrinking, hence plates sliding under each other also heating the rock hot enough due to friction which therefore also causes volcanic action to take place to relieve the pressure.

[tazman]

The earth was out of balance and poles shifted, tectonics do not account for much except mountains rising to bring what was deep below closer to the surface. Soon plate movement will take kaifornia into the sea. The earth is like an out of balance boolit spinning like mad to reach a stable condition.
You can't prove earth was the same size. It was proven most dust comes from space. The earth grows. You vacuum and keep ahead but where does the dirt go? Landfill that gets higher every. day.

You can't prove the earth wasn't the same size.
You say in one statement that tectonics only move stuff closer to the surface and in the next that it will move California under the sea. You contradicted yourself.
I have never seen any proof that most dust comes from space. Please show a link to your proof.
The landfills get bigger because all the waste is piled in one spot. The mountains are getting shorter due to erosion. Where do you think the dust from erosion goes?
The earth is trying its best to turn itself into a featureless round billiard ball. This process is not going to end anytime soon.

[RogerDat]

There is good reason to suspect that the heavy nickel/iron core of the earth is a remnant of a space debris strike. Matter moves but has to be someplace and is never destroyed, converted in form yes but not destroyed. Yesterdays mountain top is todays river delta. Yesterdays carbon life forms are todays fossil fuels.

Oxygen levels were lower in the past, but by the time of the dinosaurs we are talking reasonably close to modern oxygen levels. Pretty much the same gravity. Different CO2 levels as a lot of carbon was trapped in the buried slime and plant material that became today's fossil fuel. So no reason to expect we could not function in same time or that firing a gun would yield an inordinate amount of fire due to the oxygen levels.

[Just Duke]

There is good reason to suspect that the heavy nickel/iron core of the earth is a remnant of a space debris strike. Matter moves but has to be someplace and is never destroyed, converted in form yes but not destroyed. Yesterdays mountain top is todays river delta. Yesterdays carbon life forms are todays fossil fuels.

Oxygen levels were lower in the past, but by the time of the dinosaurs we are talking reasonably close to modern oxygen levels. Pretty much the same gravity. Different CO2 levels as a lot of carbon was trapped in the buried slime and plant material that became today's fossil fuel. So no reason to expect we could not function in same time or that firing a gun would yield an inordinate amount of fire due to the oxygen levels.
Oxygen would have actually been higher due to most of the planet was rain forest.
I scoff at the Jesus related movies during the Christmas Holidays written and directed by the non gentiles of Hollywood. lol Jesus would have not been walking through the desert as it was a rain forest back then. No you say? The Bent Pyramid on the Giza Plateau with it's
failed "designed on Friday" design OOPS! is shored up by huge Cedar beams. Ethiopia was a rain forest at one time. Google Earth Cuba sometime. You will find it practicality deforested.

[44man]

Proof is from ice cores taken that show history for millions of years. Oxygen was higher from plant life. Today we cut the rain forest and blame CO2 when trees and plants are taken away.
Pour junk into the ocean to kill and blame my car. You kill the green that lives from CO2 but my wood stove is wrong. BBQ will be outlawed soon.
Forest fires are not legal, need to sue God from the stupid that let weeds grow. Suck water out of the ground and from rivers.
Most problems in this country are from liberal states.
kalifornication can not sustain it self. The ocean is there, why not desalination plants?
Submarines do it all day. Liberals are just too stupid. Spend money to give to illegal Mexicans for votes.

[Whiterabbit]

I like the idea of them showcasing a 577 Tyrannosaur rifle. Then T-rex gets shot, with the actor quipping "Welcome to the 21st century".

Campy, but those movies always were, a bit.

[Echale3]

44man, you are absolutely right in stating that there is space dust landing on the earth. According scientists who study that sort of thing, space dust adds about 40,000 metric tonnes a year to the mass of the earth (the mass of the earth currently is about 5.9 x 10^21 metric tonnes, of which the atmosphere is about 1/1,000,000th of the total mass of the earth and water is 5/10,000ths of the total mass of the earth). All of the space dust added since the dinosaurs died out comprises an absurdly small percentage of the overall solid mass of the earth--less than 1/1,000,000,000th of the mass of the earth comes from all the space dust added in the last 62,000,000 years.

Consider too that scientists also calculated that the Earth is losing mass to the tune of over 90,000 metric tonnes a year. Looking at it as a mass added - mass lost perspective, the earth loses more than 50,000 metric tonnes of mass a year, so by those calculations the earth has a lower mass now than it did when the dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Even without considering lost mass, the contribution of space dust to the size of the earth since the dinosaurs is infinitesimal.

With that, I'll leave off any further attempt to disabuse you of your notions about oil/gas deposits, plate tectonics and other geological processes, the size of the earth, etc.

[Harter66]

So why is there an ictheosaurus (it's a fossil fish) 8000 ft above sea level 200 miles inland if nothing moves ?

[Whiterabbit]

So why is there an ictheosaurus (it's a fossil fish) 8000 ft above sea level 200 miles inland if nothing moves ?

Because their wings don;t fossilize.

















:kidding:

[tazman]

Because their wings don;t fossilize.


Now that's funny.

[jonp]

Back to the previous entertainment. This is a good thread. What would be the min castboolit everyone would use on a large meat eating dino that is staring at you? Anyone think a 270gr or 300gr hardcast 45LC over a Linebaugh load of H110 would do the trick?

[jonp]

"The smaller planet or moon has less gravity, look at moon gravity. Now look at Jupiter's gravity." Not exactly. It would depend much on density. A smaller object can have much more gravity than a larger one like a white dwarf star vs a red giant.

[Whiterabbit]

Back to the previous entertainment. This is a good thread. What would be the min castboolit everyone would use on a large meat eating dino that is staring at you? Anyone think a 270gr or 300gr hardcast 45LC over a Linebaugh load of H110 would do the trick?

I don't know what it would TAKE, but I sure know what I would USE!

I would use an 850 grain 50 caliber bullet from an NOE mold

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153107&d=1447287163

Flying along at 1900 fps loaded in a necked up 460 weatherby filled to 75% case capacity (who KNOWS how fast that sucker will go at 100%)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153108&d=1447287246

With 3 more shots to back it up in the magazine of this little fella

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113393&d=1407896316

Followed by 5 500 grain 1370 fps 45 cal boolits outta this guy

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=146929&d=1439911874

And you can bet I would be reloading the rifle after that!

(while asking my wife to fetch me some new, clean, underwear and pants)

[AbitNutz]

That's the spirit! I don't care how they got where or how big...I just want to shoot them.

[Harter66]

Because this is an unknown.
Large shot of insufficient velocity will ball up in feathers and fail to cause organ or bone damage . See a box of steel shot "#F will have the highest crippling effect" . Since we are presuming that all of the T Rex clan are pre- birds then we have to expect that they may have a feather like skin covering . Science also tells use that many of the others were in various stages of transition from/to full reptilian from/to warm blooded . That has me thinking more along the lines of a 4000# chicken with a seek and eat mind function like a great white . We must suppose that it may also have skin more like a hippo or elephant with soft (comparitively) feather like scales ,just take a second to push an unsharpened pencil through a carp at 90 degrees, in your minds eye please . To disable this Rex you have to break neck bones with a solid bone core of about 3" . The femur head is about 10 " while the femur is 6" . Breaking a shoulder is just going to upset our land based eating machine. Next up ol Rex is most likely ginger to be thin on meat from mid ribs to his tail but there's still 6-8 inches over the hips and we'll over 12 at the shoulders and 8-10 at any angle on the neck . His lungs are roughly the size of mummy bags and his heart should be about the size of a 25# turkey up to a 10 gallon garbage bag . If it is more reptilian than bird you can wreck all the heart and lungs you want and you're still a snack well chewed and partially digested before his last kick . A .178 @4.5 gr at 1100 fps impact is about 4.5 ftlb and will at a rate of 60% pass through 3/4 plywood and kill a Canada goose dead with 10+ hits or 45 ftlb all over . So we do a simple math scale up of 400 x (the goose is 10# on the wing) and you need 10 hits of 1650 ftlb to stop him dead (a scaled 40 mph impact with the ground would be an asset also) . In a real world application we're looking at 2-3 hits with the 12 ga FH or 4-6 with a 458 WM, Lott or 45-70/90/110/120 with a bare minimum of a 375 H&H if you have the luxury of the Bell neck and brain pan shots and Rex is more bird than reptilian.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The smaller planet or moon has less gravity, look at moon gravity. Now look at Jupiter's gravity.
If the earth never got larger from all the space dust and asteroids, why dig hundreds of feet to find bones. Where did all the water come from?
True plant life made most oil but why so deep, it did not sink. Coal the same.
Nobody measured the earth's gravity billions of years ago.
If the earth never got larger, we would pick up everything on the surface.
The idea of the moon being torn from earth is just theory, it could have formed from rings of space debris. Maybe earth got larger from impacts then but it was far from life being here.
Our moon was made larger then at first too from all the impacts on it.
Earth WAS smaller when T Rex walked it. Oil and coal does not form on the surface, it needs weight.

A lot of the oil and coal weren't deeply buried, or indeed were exposed on the surface until people got interested in exploiting the easier deposits first. Where they are buried deeply it is because the covering layers came from somewhere else. It could be simple movement of material by wind, water and gravity, or volcanoes emitting lava or ash, or seas evaporating to leave saline deposits, or like the white cliffs it could be tiny plankton making themselves calcium carbonate shells which sink to the bottom of the sea at the end of their lifespan. Examine the chalk under a microscope and you will see structures that did not travel through space. All except a very minute fraction of the earth's material came from the earth.

Any matter exerts a gravitational force. Any number of people must have thought the earth pulled the falling apple, but Newton's big discovery was that the apple pulls the earth too. Now if you compress a piece of wood, it is still all there, weighs as much as ever, and pulls the earth as much as ever. So do the constitutents in the many chemical reactions which consist of combination to form something smaller than it was.

Another point is that there is a difference between weight and mass. Weight is how much the earth pulls something, and is fractionally less in a high aircraft than at sea level, and zero at a greater distance into space. Kick a large weightless cannonball in space, and you will hurt your toe as much as ever, because its mass, the amount of matter in it, remains unchanged. It is mass, not weight, that determines the force taken to accelerate or decelerate a body.

That includes the body of the tyrannosaurus. The part of his running effort which consists of bobbing up and down would vary with gravity. The part devoted to horizontal acceleration wouldn't.

[44man]

"The smaller planet or moon has less gravity, look at moon gravity. Now look at Jupiter's gravity." Not exactly. It would depend much on density. A smaller object can have much more gravity than a larger one like a white dwarf star vs a red giant.
True and look at a black hole but we are not there with our sun yet.
Maybe plate tectonics moved stuff up or down over millions of years. Without our iron core or the moon, there might not be any life at all.
Yet trees and growth including animals were much larger and higher long ago. Every thing has gravity to fight.
I live next to an old limestone quarry and there are spots they went over 700 feet deep. Limestone is from ocean animals. What did the earth look like? Even the Sphinx has signs of water damage.
I have a book with a picture of a lump of coal from thousands of feet deep with a perfect gold chain through it.
How did primitive man build what is found? Some guy made rope from bulrushes and got a bunch together to pull 50 ton blocks 100 miles and across rivers. Then stack them hundreds of feet.
Nothing adds up.
The guy down south built huge things with millions of tons of coral, he said he figured out how the pyramids were built. he worked only at night by himself, had a black box on a tripod that vanished when he died.
Stone was cut thousands of years ago with precision we still can't do. Nobody knows. Nobody knows what the earth looked like either.
It was said all dinosaurs were cold blooded and now they say many were warm blooded and might have had feathers so they must taste like chicken!

[DocSavage]

1874 Sharps in say 50/90 30" barrel with a Malcolm telescopic sight for some long range fun.

[RogerDat]

1874 Sharps in say 50/90 30" barrel with a Malcolm telescopic sight for some long range fun.

Think the man has it! The best way to shoot a T-Rex? From a good distance away.

Oxygen is not destroyed or added to as much as it is freed or absorbed. Ozone layer is created from free oxygen, CO2 is absorbed or oxygen combined with carbon. So how much rain forest you have does not determine how much oxygen you have, rather it influences how much carbon is tied up in the forest plants leaving the oxygen free. Coal for example is carbon based plants that has been taken away from the atmosphere leaving more free oxygen. Burning the coal allows the carbon and other elements to recombine, hence C02 is one by-product. Burn all the coal and you have to some extent recreated the atmosphere when those plants originally tied up the carbon that is now coal.

Form of matter changes, matter in the form of basic elements is not created or destroyed. Rust is iron oxide, in a "sealed" container with iron bar in it the weight before and after bar rusting would be the same assuming no additional matter was added. Oxygen from the air in the container would combine with the iron to form iron oxide but there is still the same amount of iron and oxygen in the container. Just in different form. Put a measured weight of oxygen and hydrogen in a sealed container, some will form water but the weight will still be the combined weight of the O and H placed in the container.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The crow gets a raw deal in publicity, or might think just the opposite. I understand the breast is actually quite good, although I am prepared to take it on trust. But plenty of actual birds taste nothing like chicken.

[Pinsnscrews]

Never mind the fact they used Frog DNA when making the dinosaurs in the Jurassic Park movies...

[AbitNutz]

What? You have something against the French?

[Pinsnscrews]

Not at all, they have some damn tasty legs!

[NavyVet1959]

For many of them, I would not be surprised if T-Rex tasted like California Condor.

For a large animal like that, I would be tempted to want a shotgun with BB shot for the first couple of shots. Hopefully blinding them would slow them down enough for me to be able to use something else to hit a critical zone. BB shot will punch through an armadillo's hide. I just hope their eyelids aren't any tougher than that. :)

[AbitNutz]

Really? do you know what the range is of a shotgun with, as you call it, BB shot? #9 shot would do absolutely nothing to any animal beyond the size of a sparrow, besides potentially get their very unwanted attention. At point blank range the shotgun wad will do more damage than #9 shot.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

For many of them, I would not be surprised if T-Rex tasted like California Condor.

For a large animal like that, I would be tempted to want a shotgun with BB shot for the first couple of shots. Hopefully blinding them would slow them down enough for me to be able to use something else to hit a critical zone. BB shot will punch through an armadillo's hide. I just hope their eyelids aren't any tougher than that. :)

The reason we don't go for the long-range energy retention of BB on everything is that if they all go into a 30in. pattern, BB gives you about ten square inches per pellet. How much closer do you plan on getting?

[NavyVet1959]

Really? do you know what the range is of a shotgun with, as you call it, BB shot? #9 shot would do absolutely nothing to any animal beyond the size of a sparrow, besides potentially get their very unwanted attention. At point blank range the shotgun wad will do more damage than #9 shot.

There actually is a shot size call "BB". I've always found it readily available around here, although maybe not as available as the #9 bird shot that you are mentioning. We use #9 on doves and #6 on ducks.

#9 shot is 0.08" in diameter and 585 pellets per oz.
BB shot is 0.180" in diameter and 50 pellets per oz.

The objective would be to blind the animal so as to hopefully give you a bit more time to either escape or use more acceptable rounds (12GFH?) in critical areas of the body.

On the other hand, if it turned out that the animal had crappy eyesight and mainly hunted by smell, this method would probably just result in you being a quick meal. :(

Quite frankly, I don't know if this would work or not -- just trying to think outside the box. Otherwise, I'll take a 20mm, please... Awh, 'ell, let's just supersize it... Make it a 30mm.

[M-Tecs]

http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm

Shot Size Table


American Size

English Size

European Size
Australian Size

Pellet Diameter Inches
Pellet Diameter mm
Pellet Weight (grains)

Lead Pellets Per Oz.

Steel Pellets Per Oz.


11

12

12


.062"
1.57
.35

1250






11

11


.066"
1.68
.42

1040




10

10

10
10

.07"
1.78
.52

848




9 1/2






.075"
1.91
.63

688




9

9

9
9

.08"
2.03
.75

568




8 1/2

8


8

.085"
2.21
.97

472




8

7

8
7.5

.09"
2.31
1.29

399




7 1/2

6 1/2


7

.095"
2.41
1.46

338




7

6

7
6

.10"
2.59
1.62

291

423


6

5

6
5

.11"
2.79
1.99

218

317


5

4

5
4

.12"
3.05
2.57

168

243


4

3

4
3

.13"
3.25
3.12

132

192


3

2

3
2

.14"
3.43
3.65

106

154


2

B

2


.15"
3.81
4.38

86

125


1

BB

1
BB

.16"
4.09
5.47

71

103


BB

A




.177"
4.50
6.25

55

72


BBB

AA

AA


.19"
4.83
7.29

42

61


T



AAA
AAA

.20"
5.16


36

53


F






.22"
5.59


27

39


#4 Buck






.24"
6.10


21

30


#3 Buck

SSSG




.25"
6.83


19

28







SSG

.27"
7.23


14




#1 Buck

SSG




.30"
7.62


11




0

SG




.32"
8.38


9




00




00-SG

.34"
8.64


8




000

LG




.36"
9.14


6

[AbitNutz]

No 20mm, no firing mini-guns from helicopters...if you're going to shoot a T-Rex you have to do it with a shoulder fired weapon. You have to give the poor animal some sort of chance...a chance to become lunch.

[44man]

I watched King Kong last night and they killed dinosaurs with Thompson's but Kong withstood thousands and thousand of rounds from bigger stuff. Also got T Rex biting him with no damage.
the girl was swung every which way enough to break every bone and tossed on rock, Tough as Kong.
Nothing else on and I kept changing channels with no luck.

[AbitNutz]

See! What's up with that? You'd think that a great white (or whatever) hunter would sling his rifle out the 4th story window of one of those Manhattan office buildings and plug ol' Kong right between the eyes. What? Are they afraid that the city sanitation workers would have to pick him up?

[RogerDat]

I think to make it sporting maybe a single shot firearm would be appropriate. Besides the story would be so much better. There I was deep in the jungle with but a single bullet between me and being T-Rex food..... :popcorn:

[NavyVet1959]

I think to make it sporting maybe a single shot firearm would be appropriate. Besides the story would be so much better. There I was deep in the jungle with but a single bullet between me and being T-Rex food..... :popcorn:

I'm thinking a cartoon where there is a T-Rex and a big pile of T-Rex "scat" and then a word balloon coming from the scat that has your quote in it. :)

[wch]

Theme parks are "gun free" zones.

[44man]

One shot from any of my revolvers and you have "chicken." Bread or roast it.

[singleshot]

...at least after a huge collision caused a large chunk to be blown off into Earth orbit, which we now call the moon. The Earth's gravity has been constant.

Complete fairy-tale. This completely defies the laws of physics and specifically orbital mechanics.

[singleshot]

Of the 5 major "theories" of how the moon got there, all are impossible scenarios. Therefore, if we're to believe the experts, the moon cannot exist.