Rust or Fungus?

[nekshot]

About 4 years ago we shot some Pyrodex P in a 58 Remington clone and the cylinder pin (I think that the culprit) and inside of hole on cylinder do not stop rusting! I tried every method given to me(I asked about this around 2 years ago here) and it is still aggresively rusting. I must clean it monthly to keep the fungus at bay. I boiled it in water and baking soda, among many other methods. Any ideas short of a new pin and conversion cylinder? The one lesson I learned from this is only true BP for me and my guns!

[Hickok]

Nekshot, I agree with you about the Pyrodex, as I only use BP in my cap and ball revolvers. Never heard of corrosion being so tenacious as you are experiencing.

Have you tried to cold blue the affected parts? I prefer Brownells Oxpho Blue, as it works great for me. Heat the parts up with a hair dryer and then use the Oxpho Blue.

I grease up the cyl. pin and the cylinder hole on my BP revolvers instead of using gun oil. When shooting I use a good BP grease. You can use SPG, Bore Butter, or homemade Crisco+Beewax+ olive oil, Etc.

For storage I like Mobil 1 Synthetic grease, that comes in a tube for your grease gun. Nice and cost effective. Works on all types of firearms for storage. You can clean it off before shooting, and then put on some "organic" grease that behaves well with BP fowling.


I have numerous BP firearms, and I like to use a light grease coating when storing them, as any oil just never seems to give as good as protection to the metal. Just make sure the firearm is totally and completely dry of any moisture after cleaning, as a coating of grease over a damp spot can cause rusting.

The best all around BP lube and oil I have found is Ballistol. This stuff works.

[johnson1942]

here is a trick that may work. their is a local museum that has a few rare handguns in a glass case. they have a light bulb on in that case at all times. their is a small air vent in the top of that case. the bulb is at the bottom of the case. 0 humidity in that case, there for no rust. also in the old days professional banjo players with calf skin heads on the banjo mounted a small light bulb in the carrying case. they plugged it in in the hotel. this kept the calf skin head from takeing on moisture and not being as tight. the light bulb will drive out moisture. also pyrodex is very very corrosive.

[mooman76]

Once rust takes hold it's hard to get it to stop. I hear good things about "Barricade". You might try that next time you clean and apply it for storage. I use Pyrodex and have no problems afterward.

[Pyro&Black]

About 4 years ago we shot some Pyrodex P in a 58 Remington clone and the cylinder pin (I think that the culprit) and inside of hole on cylinder do not stop rusting! I tried every method given to me(I asked about this around 2 years ago here) and it is still aggresively rusting. I must clean it monthly to keep the fungus at bay. I boiled it in water and baking soda, among many other methods. Any ideas short of a new pin and conversion cylinder? The one lesson I learned from this is only true BP for me and my guns!

It may not have been the pyrodex at-fault. Being you are a water-user, that may be the culprit. You gotta' get all the water dispersed.

For over 20 years now, I have never let an ounce of water touch any of my guns. It's not because watery solutions don't work. It's because a mistake can happen and water remains accidentally on your guns. So to avoid any drying mistakes, I never involve water in my gun cleaning habits.

[Omnivore]

Thousands of people use Pyrodex without problems, so if you're looking at the Pyrodex as the cause, you're going to be distracted in your wild goose chase and therefore miss the cause.

Put away the silly chemicals! Plain hot water, no soap, no detergent, no baking soda. The oils on the steel help protect the steel, so don't use soap or detergent to cut the oils. Anything else is over-thinking it, trying to be too clever. Stop it. I know the manuals all parrot the words "hot soapy water". Burn the bloody manual.

Dry thoroughly, then oil. There are many good choices for oil, but one that is really easy is the aerosol can of Ballistol.

Again; do NOT assume that because you used Pyrodex, and then the gun rusted, the Pyrodex therefore must be your main problem. Many people were burned at the stake as witches because of that exact kind of logic; You had a bitter argument with your neighbor, your neighbor's prize cow then died, therefore you are obviously a witch who put a spell on your neighbor's cow by way of revenge. Q.E.D.

Those who use grease under the ball in their loads report being fairly casual about cleaning afterward, being that the powder fouling is mixed thoroughly with the grease. I do this also, and I haven't seen traces of rust in my pistols for a long time. When I followed the "hot soapy water" meme I always got a rusty patch when swabbing dry after cleaning, whether I used real BP or Pyrodex.

Lately I haven't been using water, except as a component in a Ballistol/water mixture. I used to dip the gun in water, now I just swab the bore with that stuff and wipe off the outside. The cylinder I still put under the hot water faucet but that may be over-doing it.

I never knew what boiling was supposed to prove, but do know for absolute certain that it isn't necessary. Boiling it in a water/soda solution seems extreme, and risky. Try it with a bare piece of scrap mild steel. I bet it rusts like crazy.

[LAGS]

If you are going to Boil your parts in water, then used Distilled Water, Not Tap Water, same as if you were rust bluing.
Distilled water will convert the Red Rust to Black Oxide and stops the rusting process.

[swathdiver]

Thousands of people use Pyrodex without problems,

Yeah, no problem for them, they sell them rust buckets for a song to fools like me and I wind up scrubbin' and scrubbin' to get them clean again, if they are salvageable. If not, they get parted out.

Rust forms for water users who allow their barrels to get too cool before final cleaning. Dewater and oil/grease your barrel before it gets too cool and it will not rust/flash rust.

[rfd]

for cleaning bp residue, either plain tepid water or tepid water with a bit of water soluble oil such as ballistol or nappa. after the cleaning is done, i spray with wd40. done and well cared for.

[country gent]

I have been using the water ballistol mix for several years now with good results. I brush well with it and several dry patches I may do this several times after a long match or heavy BP fouling. I clean the lube star from the muzzle with a damp patch also. I then wet patch with shooters choice a couple patches and dry The shooters choice wetted bore is allowed to "soak" for 10-15 minutes. I then patch with a perservative Kroil works good kroil mixed with Shooters choice makes a great cleaning and short term perservative. For long term I have also used SPG or emmerts bullet lube in the bore patching in a heavy coat and thining with a clean dry patch. If you have some clean the area well with ballistol and water then shooters choice. drying well after then lightly coat the parts with RIG grease

[swathdiver]

for cleaning bp residue, either plain tepid water or tepid water with a bit of water soluble oil such as ballistol or nappa. after the cleaning is done, i spray with wd40. done and well cared for.

This works perfectly fine too.

[nekshot]

well,I thank you all for your input but all I learned is I have been doing it right for 43 years! This specific metal pin has a problem I have never ran into. I shall make a new one and throw this one away. And for you Pyrodux users - God Bless you and may you never see the nasty side of that stuff!

[Hickok]

I have been using the water ballistol mix for several years now with good results. I brush well with it and several dry patches I may do this several times after a long match or heavy BP fouling. I clean the lube star from the muzzle with a damp patch also. I then wet patch with shooters choice a couple patches and dry The shooters choice wetted bore is allowed to "soak" for 10-15 minutes. I then patch with a perservative Kroil works good kroil mixed with Shooters choice makes a great cleaning and short term perservative. For long term I have also used SPG or emmerts bullet lube in the bore patching in a heavy coat and thining with a clean dry patch. If you have some clean the area well with ballistol and water then shooters choice. drying well after then lightly coat the parts with RIG greaseAnother vote for Ballistol. This stuff is amazing, and I have great results with it.

[longbow]

Not that I have used a lot of it but I have used Pyrodex in my old CVA Hawken rifle I built from a kit. Never had any problems with it. It behaves and cleans up pretty much the same as real BP for me.

Contrary to Omnivore's recommendation, I use hot soapy water and Pyrodex cleans up easy. It may well do with plain old hot water too but I was told years ago to use soapy water so I do and never had an issue with BP or Pyrodex.

I make sure the barrel is still hot when I finish up then dry as throughly as I can by running clean patches down the bore then once dry, I use a mix of WD40 and light oil inside the bore and all over the outside.

I prefer real BP but it is not to be had anywhere near where I live.

Not trying to convert you, you are not alone in not liking Pyrodex. I just can't quite figure why you would be having an issue after so much cleaning. I have to think it is something other than the Pyrodex.

Longbow

[True.grit]

I use an air compressor to blow all the moisture of the parts while they are still hot. Then oil with Bristol. I only use black powder now. Pyrodex, in my experience has a lot of undesirable problems.

[fouronesix]

I too absolutely hate Pyrodex since trying it, once, 38 years ago. However, I also agree with some of the others in that it may not be the root cause of the "fungus". The affected part may be an alloy of iron/steel that is simply prone to oxidation (rusting) and, since it has already been etched, it is that much more susceptible to continued oxidation. Which is kind of true with any surface. I guess either live with its vulnerability and clean and oil the heck out of it after each use or replace the part with a new one which may be a little more resistant and then try to prevent that first etching.

[bedbugbilly]

I've sued hot soapy water to clean my BP revolvers - Remingtons and Colts - for 50 some years.

I've never used Pyrex so I can't speak to that or what it does as I only use real BP - started with DuPont 50 years ago and now it's Goex.

When I clean my revolvers - when I'm done, I use a cotton towel and patches to get as much water/moisture removed and then I use a hair dryer to dry all parts - it heats them up until you can't hold them in your hand and that removes what water/moisture there is. Then I just spray them with RemOil.

On your Reington - and this is just a thought/suggestion/question - are you sure you are getting the cylinder pin hole in the cylinder completely clean and dry? If not, no matter how clean you get your cylinder pin, what is left in the cylinder pin hole will start to work on the cylinder pin when reassembled. While I spray down my revolvers with RemOil and run an oil swab in the chambers and barrel - I do remove nipples and dry with hot air, then oil lightly - on my cylinder pins - both Colt and Remingtons - I coat with my BP lube. (I've always made my lube from 1 lb. of Crisco and 1 real beeswax toilet bowel ring - melted together and mixed well). That not only prevents rust but also prevents any fouling build up to cause cylinder bind and I can shoot many many cylinders full during a range session.

As suggested . . . you may want to clean your cylinder pin very well and then blue it - then keep it well greased. But again . . make sure the cylinder pin hole in your cylinder is completely and well cleaned.

And geographical location can play havoc as well - if you live in a high humidity area - after your shoot and clean - check it in a couple of days for any issues and if necessary - oil it down well again.

Many folks get too carried away with fancy and expensive cleaning solutions - it isn't necessary. Revolvers during the Civil war were often cleaned by removing the cylinders and tossing them in to a tub of hot lye soap water and suspending the barrels, etc. down into the water by having the grip on the edge of the bucket. Some folks also get pretty OC thinking they need to tear it down completely, part by part every time they shoot. I often rinse my frame in hot soapy water and then rinse - keeping the grips dry - and then heat with a blow dryer after wards to get it all hot to dry - then spray down and squirt oil into the internals and cycle the action to work it around. I've never had a problem with rust on the inside and very rarely do I ever tear one down completely. My Uberti 1852 Navy has been cleaned that way for years and it still keeps going strong with no issues. My Remington Navy is the same way.

Good luck with your problem and I hope you find the cause and can get a solution figured out to stop the issue.