250 savage /22-250 from 30-06/308 form dies RCBS

[Sghinds]

So I recently picked up a set of RCBS form dies. The box itself says 22/250 sav from 308/30-06. The instructions inside say case is a 22/250, but the dies are marked 250 sav. The new reamer is marked 25 caliber and the expander button is marked .256.

Are the 250 savage and 22/250 so similar I could form both with this set of dies?

[BK7saum]

Yes, the 22-250 is only a necked down 250 savage. Form and ream your 250 savage cases. If you want 22-250s run the cases through a 22-250 full length resize die, load, and shoot.

Brad

[DocSavage]

The 22/250 is a varmint round based on the 250 savage. Sounds as if you got a die set to form 22/250 from 250 savage or any case with a .473 base like 308 or 30'06.

[Sghinds]

Thanks guys. Will have to see if my buddy wants the dies. I dont own a rifle in either caliber.

[GRUMPA]

Thanks guys. Will have to see if my buddy wants the dies. I dont own a rifle in either caliber.

HECK!!!...If he don't need them depending on price I might be..

But I do machine a small amount off the base...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152526&d=1446662943

[EDG]

The full set of RCBS .250 Savage form dies has the following

1. .250 Savage #1 Form die neck dia = .407
2. .250 Savage #2 Form die neck dia = .320
3. .250 Savage trim die neck dia = .290
4. .250 Sav. nk reamer die neck dia = .284
5. .250 Savage neck reamer

If you want to make .22-250 you need a set of .22-250 loading dies

You will need a set of regular .250 Savage dies if you want to load .250 Savage.

You can see how using these dies set at different lenghts you can make many different cartridges.
You can also modify spare dies to do many of the same things.
In place of the reamer and reamer die you can use a neck turner which is adjustable.

There is a similar set for the .219 Zipper made from 30-30 and a set of .257 Roberts made from 30-06.

[ratitude]

That sounds like the set of RCBS form dies I have for 250 Savage. I don't remember through if mine has the neck reamer. I'll have to dig it out and check. I want to have a lightweight rifle made sometime in 250 Savage AI. Haven't used the dies yet but have thought about using them to make 22-250 which I could use now.

[EDG]

I found a set of 6.5X250 Savage wildcat dies that were handy for forming some cases.
Now I have an interest in making a light hunting rifle for this round if I can find a really small bolt gun to rebarrel.


That sounds like the set of RCBS form dies I have for 250 Savage. I don't remember through if mine has the neck reamer. I'll have to dig it out and check. I want to have a lightweight rifle made sometime in 250 Savage AI. Haven't used the dies yet but have thought about using them to make 22-250 which I could use now.

[Sghinds]

The full set of RCBS .250 Savage form dies has the following

1. .250 Savage #1 Form die neck dia = .407
2. .250 Savage #2 Form die neck dia = .320
3. .250 Savage trim die neck dia = .290
4. .250 Sav. nk reamer die neck dia = .284
5. .250 Savage neck reamer


What confused me was the instructions which state the caliber is a 22/250. Yet the reamer and expander were .256 and the dies are all marked 250 sav. I have all the forming dies, and have 22/250 dies, just no 250 savage dies. See photos for the form die set
152697
152698
152699
152700

[Good Cheer]

:drinks:

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/matt_zpsqwvyguuq.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/matt_zpsqwvyguuq.jpg.html)

[EDG]

Sghinds
I have the same set of dies and instructions. I do not own a 22/250 or a 250 Savage but I use the dies when needed for other projects.
The form dies and reamers come as a set. The reloading dies are were sold seperately depending on which round you want to reload.


What confused me was the instructions which state the caliber is a 22/250. Yet the reamer and expander were .256 and the dies are all marked 250 sav. I have all the forming dies, and have 22/250 dies, just no 250 savage dies. See photos for the form die set

[EDG]

You have provided a very good illustration of what I call the versatility of short fat dies. You can form a lot of .30-06 /.308 brass with some of these dies.

I have .358 Win, .357 Automag, 8mm Kurz, .308 win, 7mm-08, and .243. .260 Rem would be nice to add. I had a .25 Souper at one time but sold it before I got the idea for this collection. Some of the above are FL sizers and some are trim dies.
I have also used a 6.5X.250 sizer die too. Others you could use are the Remington BR series sizers and trim dies. Or you can just cut off a longer die like a .284 win or a 6.5X55.
So if you want to squeeze brass down these dies are very useful.
You can measure the neck inside diameters of your dies with small hole gauges or gauge pins. Record the numbers in a spreadsheet to help you pick out the right dies when you start a new project.


:drinks:

http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/matt_zpsqwvyguuq.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/matt_zpsqwvyguuq.jpg.html)

[Sghinds]

Spoke with my friend and he sold his 22-250, so looks like I may just have to keep these for future projects. Thanks for all the wonderful information.

[triggerhappy243]

this caught my eye. I need to make some 250 savage brass for a friend. I have a die set for the 250 as well as 300 savage.. and brass of different cals. is not an issue. tons of 243, quite a bit of 300 savage, and several thousands of 22-250. what dies would i need?

[Good Cheer]

Maybe just run .300 Savage into the .250 sizer?

[Good Cheer]

You have provided a very good illustration of what I call the versatility of short fat dies. You can form a lot of .30-06 /.308 brass with some of these dies.

I have .358 Win, .357 Automag, 8mm Kurz, .308 win, 7mm-08, and .243. .260 Rem would be nice to add. I had a .25 Souper at one time but sold it before I got the idea for this collection. Some of the above are FL sizers and some are trim dies.
I have also used a 6.5X.250 sizer die too. Others you could use are the Remington BR series sizers and trim dies. Or you can just cut off a longer die like a .284 win or a 6.5X55.
So if you want to squeeze brass down these dies are very useful.
You can measure the neck inside diameters of your dies with small hole gauges or gauge pins. Record the numbers in a spreadsheet to help you pick out the right dies when you start a new project.

Yeah, inexpensive once fired 270 and 20-06 brass are like basic materials for DIY / make anything you want.
On that first photo of a 30-06 run through a .338 Federal sizer, been threatening for a long time to make a version of the .338 with a slightly longer neck. If I had an old .308 with a heavy enough barrel it just might already be sent off for reboring.

[triggerhappy243]

so I have heard the mantra, a fair price is whatever someone is willing to pay. But I ask here, what is a fair price to pay for "USED" 250 savage brass with unknown firings?

[triggerhappy243]

maybe it is cheaper to make my own?

[EDG]

fired in a Savage 99? It is not worth much because the 99 is a rear locking action and the case heads will separate after a few loads.

If the brass was fired in a bolt gun with the dies set correctly they might last 10 to 30 firings.


so I have heard the mantra, a fair price is whatever someone is willing to pay. But I ask here, what is a fair price to pay for "USED" 250 savage brass with unknown firings?

[Good Cheer]

It's pretty hard to beat making your own.
If for no other reason but because you can!

[triggerhappy243]

QUOTE BY EDG.....fired in a Savage 99? It is not worth much because the 99 is a rear locking action and the case heads will separate after a few loads.

EDG, do savage 99's normally have a headspace issue?

[EDG]

I have never heard of them having a headspace issue but you can cause the same problem with dies that are too short or are mis -set to create the same condition as excess headspace.

I have seen separated .250 cases at the range and I suspect they were caused by the rear locking 99 mechanism. It is a great looking rifle but it locks with tilting bolt at the rear so it is not going to be as rigid as a bolt gun with high pressure ammo.

You might check with some of the gunsmiths and get a more informed opinion - but I would ask at least 4 or 5 since they vary a lot in experience.


QUOTE BY EDG.....fired in a Savage 99? It is not worth much because the 99 is a rear locking action and the case heads will separate after a few loads.

EDG, do savage 99's normally have a headspace issue?

[triggerhappy243]

I read this thread and a few others and thought.... try sizing a 243 case in the FL 250 savage die. WOW, I can forget all about buying over priced used 250 brass.

[Sghinds]

So only running a 243 case into a FL 250 sav die forms it just right?


I read this thread and a few others and thought.... try sizing a 243 case in the FL 250 savage die. WOW, I can forget all about buying over priced used 250 brass.

[triggerhappy243]

WELL, I tried just one piece of brass to see if it could be done on my rock chucker press. Yes it did reform it in one step.... but I made sure there was plenty of case lube to prevent a stuck case. I ran the case in and out of the die in steps... a little further each time til the case went all the way in. I stopped there because i had other chores that were more important. I have been reading about the savage 99 being a rear locking action.... which explains the case head failures I have been experiencing. so I also will be incorporating a false shoulder into all this brass I am making to take up any free slop when I start to fireform it all. EXCITING TIMES

[Good Cheer]

Never tried heavier wall mil brass in a 99 to see what difference it might make... does it?

[GRUMPA]

The beauty of making your own from Mil brass is rather challenging. As some here know I convert more than a few cases and when folks want the more custom cases I have them send me there brass. What I mean by that is it takes a couple of there fired cases so that I can match, or hold the gauge dimension (off the shoulder) to match there cases.

I'll say it right now......There has been an average of .008 difference in some of them, and I'm talking about folks not realizing there chamber is longer than some others.

Heavier cases (thicker) will last longer, but......it's advisable to use a case gauge with an indicator so the new gauge dimension comes close to matching what they sent me.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128219&d=1421886430

[Good Cheer]

After checking out prices on brass for the 22-250 I'm making them.
Ten Ring in Houston had the RCBS reamer I wanted.
Good to go.

[Sghinds]

After checking out prices on brass for the 22-250 I'm making them.
Ten Ring in Houston had the RCBS reamer I wanted.
Good to go.

10 ring are good people. I try to stop in there whenever I am on that side of town.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah they are. Kimberly just drug up, going to a manufacturing job some where.

Hey, got a question that maybe somebody knows an answer to about these 22-250's I'm making.
Started off with a bag of .270's from way back in storage. Got them formed, annealed and now full length sized and neck expanded. I'm ready to turn the necks. After having gone to the trouble to make 'em plum snickedly perfecto I'm going to wanta turn the necks to suit my chamber.

So how much radial clearance for cartridge neck OD to chamber ID should I make the loaded rounds?

[triggerhappy243]

.002?

[Good Cheer]

Sounds good to me.
Obviously I'm thrashing about for ideas. I've just never looked at it that way before because when cleaning up necks it has always been a matter of the lowest common denominator. What ever made them all the same was what I went with.

[wmitty]

So what you are saying is with the parent case being a .270, you can neck turn them to a given o.d. rather than just "cleaning" the individual case necks to a constant thickness?

[triggerhappy243]

you can turn the inside as well as the outside.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, that's the thought, got the extra thickness of metal to start out with so there's turning stock to give the cases any degree of fit.
In between oiling boots and playing with the new snow shovel the better 2/3's brought home, tried out a couple of cases to see what the initial clean up point would be. Looks like about .019"/.020" wall on the neck will be the starting point.
From there I suppose it is a matter of seeing how thin the neck needs to be before the round will chamber.
Not doing a pound cast on the chamber.

[EDG]

You do not need to do a pound cast to measure the chamber.
Take a factory case and flare the case mouth .010 to .015 over size like a trumpet or funnel.
Then you can push this case into the chamber and the chamber neck will squeeze the flared portion of the case neck down to a line to line fit.

Carefully remove the case and measure the edge of the funnel where it has been squeezed back down by the chamber neck.
This is the diameter of your chamber neck.
You can repeat this 4 or 5 times at no cost and little effort until you have confidence in your measurement.


There are several reasons to outside turn case necks You can check some other websites for information such as 6BR and Accurate Shooter.

1. Clean up and uniform the necks of factory brass
Here you start with factory brass and make it more uniform but it is a sloppier fit in the chamber because you made it thinner than normal

2. Turn the necks down so they will safely chamber and fire when too thick.
Here you start with brass that may not chamber because it is too tight in the neck. You can turn it to some clearance or turn it to factory specs if it is going to be used in multiple rifles or in a rifle that you have no way to measure

3. Turn the necks to be a close fit to better center the round in the neck and improve accuracy.
Here you start with brass that will not chamber and you turn it so it will chamber with minimum clearance.
This requires good knowledge and technique to remain safe and achieve better accuracy.
The following is not recommended for casual shooters. It represents some of what serious benchrest shooters do.
A. They will turn the case neck so the loaded round has about .0002 clearance in the chamber neck. This permits firing the round yet the brass does not expand so a new bullet can be seated without sizing the case. You should monitor your neck thickness to make sure you do not get a neck that thickens and potentially causes high pressure.

I prefer a little more clearance - about .0005 to .001 for a benchrest rifle. I am not a competitor and prefer a little bit more safety.
For a military rifle or hunting rifle the factory ammo may have clearance up to .015 which is way too much for me. If I have to turn cases for a military or hunting rifle the clearance will be .002 to .003 but I check every case before it is fired. I do not turn cases in large lots, load them and shoot them without verifying that every case has enough clearance for safe shooting. All you have to do is to miss turning one case and you may load a round that is dangerous.







Yeah, that's the thought, got the extra thickness of metal to start out with so there's turning stock to give the cases any degree of fit.
In between oiling boots and playing with the new snow shovel the better 2/3's brought home, tried out a couple of cases to see what the initial clean up point would be. Looks like about .019"/.020" wall on the neck will be the starting point.
From there I suppose it is a matter of seeing how thin the neck needs to be before the round will chamber.
Not doing a pound cast on the chamber.

[runfiverun]

see the first sentence after number-3 above.
this is reason enough to make your own brass for the rifles that are worth the work.
it will also straighten out many hunting rifles and make them into tack drivers if you have a good bedding job and trigger.
one other place where it really helps is in cast boolit shooting when you want to push the velocity window, this takes much of the stress of deformation away [allowing the use of a "softer" more fluid alloy] and allows you to tune the load with powder speed much, much easier.

[44magLeo]

For those of you who don't want to make 250 Savage brass, www.captechintl.com/products (http://www.captechintl.com/products) has it in stock. It' Jamison brass, I have heard it's good stuff.
With the 10% off they are selling it for $.57 per. I ordered 200 case. I kinda like having the right name on the case head.
It should get here in about a week, I'll let you know how things go.
Leo
I don't know why that address won't work as a link, it's what I put in my search engine and found the site and bought the brass.
Leo

[44magLeo]

Got the brass in today. With just a visual inspection, I'm impressed.
Came in plastic bags packed in the box. No dented case mouths.
Using a loaded round I randomly checked the size of the case mouths. They all stopped at the same place on the bullet ogive. So I can probably just prime, charge and seat bullets, I will pass then through the sizer die just to ensure everything is ok.
Took just a week to get here.
Leo