.32 ACP "Balls Up" Serious Loads with Accurate 31-087T

[Outpost75]

I don't know who designed Accurate's 31-087T bullet for the .32 ACP, but I would sure like to thank him!

This design is for sure the best ever for this cartridge, as well as for the .30 Luger, .30 Mauser, 7.62x25 Tok and similar rounds. In a steel frame .32 ACP you can approach .380 ACP energies, serious butt kick!

It is a reliable feeder, with good meplat and deep penetrator. When cup-pointed ala Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com you get an 80-82-grain bullet, which will expand to .50 cal. plus at .32 ACP velocities when cast in soft 1:30 tin/lead alloy.

This is the do all to end all maximum effort bullet for the .32 ACP AS LONG AS you are NOT shooting it in a Keltec, OR as a steady diet [over 1000 accumulated rounds] in the Beretta Tomcat, in which case it is a frame cracker! But my Beretta 1935, Colt M1903, Walther PP, and CZ27 all love it!

Most recent chronograph data, but be advised that your mileage may vary:

.32 ACP Hand Loads OAL 0.945”, Starline cases, CCI 500 primers

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400____913 fps, 16 Sd_____ ___957 fps, 15 Sd
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 Unique_______965, 26 Sd__Approximates Buffalo Bore
Acc. 31-077B 3.0 AutoComp____837, 10 Sd____________957, 16 Sd

Acc. 31-087T 3.0 AutoComp+P__843, 18 Sd_____________962, 19 Sd
Acc. 31-087T 5.6 #2400_______825,15 Sd______________926, 14 Sd

Acc. 31-090B 2.0 Titegroup_____818, 12 Sd____________902, 16 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 3.0 AutoComp+P__915 fps, 16 Sd_________999, 14 Sd
Acc. 31-090B 5.2 #2400_______821 fps, 23 Sd_________878, 20 Sd

Acc. 31-095T 2.5 AutoComp____741, 25 Sd___________840, 6 Sd
Acc. 31-095T 5.2 #2400_______750, 17 Sd___________874, 13 Sd

Hdy 85XTP.312” 3.0 AutoComp+P__853, 23 Sd_________976, 8 Sd
Hdy 90XTP.309” 3.0 AutoComp+P__868, 12 Sd_________968, 17 Sd
Nor 93FMJ .307” 3.0 AutoComp+P__856, 6 Sd_________933, 11 Sd
 
REF: .32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

Ammunition _______________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ_______923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ____________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ__________848, fps, 32 Sd_________917 fps, 11 Sd

Avg. 73-gr.“Hardball” Velocity__894 fps________________969 fps
Avg. 73 gr. “Hardball” Energy__128 ft.-lbs.____________150 ft.-lbs.

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd__________997 fps, 7 Sd
Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy______128 ft.-lbs.____________164 ft.-lbs.

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Butt kicking, kick a$$ serious loads for .32 ACP!!!!!!

[Mk42gunner]

If there was ever a cartridge and powder that I didn't think would go together, it would be the .32 ACP and 2400.

Glad it is working for you.

Robert

[petroid]

If there was ever a cartridge and powder that I didn't think would go together, it would be the .32 ACP and 2400.

Glad it is working for you.

Robert

My thoughts, exactly. Who'd have thunk it?

[Outpost75]

Here is same bullet profile from Accurate, simply adjusting the base diameter to .357-.358 for .380 ACP,
Tom already had this for the 9x18 Makarov, so somebody out there is thinking!

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152500

[FergusonTO35]

Wow. I thought I was hardcore with my Accurate 31-076 at 890 fps in my Kel-Tec!!

[LouisianaMan]

Outpost,
Your enthusiasm for .32 ACP is certainly contagious! After dabbling briefly in "mouseguns" some years back, my focus on .38 S&W led me down a different path & the small autos helped pay for the revolvers (sigh).

Suffice to say that a .25 FN 1906, .32 FN 1910, and .32 FN 1922 have followed me home within the past week! I already have a Husqvarna m/07, a Swedish-made licensed copy of Browning's FN 1903, in 9mm Browning Long (also works fine with its .380 conversion barrel & shortened spring). Doggoned if there's not 4 clean Baby Brownings to choose from in a local gunshop along with a beauty of a S&W Mod 30-1, all calling my name! And yes, a M1903 Colt as well.

Anyway, a couple quick comments & questions on your krackenboomer .32 ACP loads.

First: is there any need to worry about getting stronger (Wolff?) springs or the like, or can I rely on the weight of the steel 1910 and 1922 to handle the load? Made in Europe where hot .32's were typical fodder for those guns, I suspect they're "good to go."

Second: the square-cut, full caliber holes of your flat-nosed and/or cup-pointed bullets are impressive. Clearly visible in your photos, easily distinguishable from the typical crinkly, torn-edged hole caused by FMJ, often closed back up to sub-caliber diameter even in target paper! So, in true cast bullet fashion, meplat rules!

Third: since you've gotten expansion to .50" from the cup points, how deeply did they penetrate in your target medium?

Finally, perhaps Beretta's wide-slide Inox version of the Tomcat has eliminated the slide cracking that bedeviled the early models. My brief flirtation with the improved Tomcat was some 6-7 years ago, and I recall the manual specifying 130 fpe ammunition as the max one should use in the gun. That meant essentially the 71g/900 fps and 60g Silvertip or XTP "American" power levels. Has the improved Tomcat completely resolved those earlier problems? That's likely old news, but I'm Rumpelstiltskin just waking back up to .32's.

Thanks for opening my eyes to the potential of the pocket & service pistols of yesteryear!

[Outpost75]

I'd shot over 2000 rounds of RWS hardball and my 87-grain cast loads from my Tomcat with no issues until recently, when the frame of my Model 3032 INOX finally cracked during a recent range session firing the heavy bullet loads. If you own a Tomcat, pop open the tip-up barrel and inspect the left slide rail above the trigger pivot hole!

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If you don't fire your Tomcat multiple thousands of rounds and limit use of the heavy loads to occasional test and emergency use you should be OK, but be warned!

I recommend their use in STEEL FRAME guns only and recommend replacement of stock factory recoil springs with heavier duty Wolff replacements, as used in the .380 versions of the same model, where feasible.

I did replace old springs in my 1903 Colt with Wolff replacements.

The cup point bullets which expanded to .50 cal. penetrated 18-20" in water jugs, probably equating to about 11-12" of gelatin. Adequate.

[Davy Sprocket]

You have given me hope. I have a Spanish Ruby that doesn't like 71-73 gr American ammo. Now it can be more than a single shot.

[Outpost75]

My experience has been that current American .32 ACP ammo simply doesn't function the WW2 and earlier guns.

Chronographing pre-1950 US commercial .32 ACP ammo, it is a different breed of cat than modern "lawyer ammo"

Modern Fiocchi, RWS and Sellier & Bellot 73 grain ammo functions my WW2-era pistols just fine and that velocity is approximated in RWS or Fiocchi brass with Winchester primers, 71-grain FMJ bullets and 2.4 grains of Bullseye at 0.975" OAL. That exceeds published data from Alliant by a bit, but I've shot thousands of them in my guns and the load seems safe.

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” Current Euro-CIP and Buffalo Bore +P Factory Ammunition

Ammunition ________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ_______907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ__________923 fps, 28 Sd_________1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ_______________896 fps, 29 Sd__________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ_____________848, fps, 32 Sd_________917 fps, 11 Sd

Avg. 73-grain “Hardball” Velocity___894 fps_______________969 fps
Avg. 73 grain “Hardball” Energy____128 ft.-lbs.____________150 ft.-lbs.

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd__________997 fps, 7 Sd
Buffalo Bore 75-grain Energy______128 ft.-lbs.____________164 ft.-lbs.

[LouisianaMan]

I've shot over 2000 rounds of RWS hardball and my 87-grain cast loads from my Tomcat with no issues.

I have stuck with stock factory recoil springs in my Berettas and CZs, old and new.

I did replace old springs in my 1903 Colt with Wolff replacements.

The cup point bullets which expanded to .50 cal. penetrated 18-20" in water jugs, probably equating to about 11-12" of gelatin. Adequate.

That all sounds good to me. Clearly the Tomcat is holding up to an amount of work that few pocket pistols will ever see.

Also, my guns' recoil springs feel normal, not slack or easy, so I'll work with them until otherwise indicated.

The expansion & penetration results you've experienced are equal to or better than commercial or handloaded HP/JHP's I've tried, with few exceptions. All in all, sounds like you've paved the way to making some very effective modernized options in .32 ACP. While not an elephant gun, it's no mere long-distance icepick, either.

[Outpost75]

Key is using the soft alloy and having the cavity geometry of the bullets optimized for subsonic velocity. For carry loads I would fill the cavity with paraffin wax to serve the same purpose as the plastic jelly bean inserts in the Hornady Critical Defense.

Yes, you get some leading, but these are not high-volume shooting guns, so brush the bores once in a while.

Accuracy is quite good enough for short range and a couple magazines. Another solution is to put a few rounds of hardball in the bottom of each mag to mitigate the leading, and considering that after the first two double-taps, anyone not hit is behind cover and FMJ isn't a bad idea.

[Markbo]

I finally understand what this smilie is for

[smilie=f: = .32 acp

[Bigslug]

Outpost, I tip my propeller-equipped mad scientist beanie to you! I'm waiting on enough players to get the 75 grain Ranch Dog up and running over at NOE, but yeah, you got something pretty darn cool and intriguing there. An 87grain .32 Auto loaded for a slow burn with 2400. . . It's like a .45-120, only smaller.:bigsmyl2:

[9.3X62AL]

2400 powder and SP Magnum primers are outside my experience in the 32 ACP. Outside-the-box thinking really fascinates me, and those ballistics from the short Tomcat barrel are impressive. These loads compare closely to what Russia did with the Makarov......taking blowback operation and caliber capability close to the limit to achieve enhanced performance. I see some similar things getting done soon here with Lyman #313249 in my Walther PP.......gradually and carefully.

[carolina sorillo]

First off, I'm new here and found this thread using a Google search for ".32acp Alliant 2400".

I have also been playing with .32's for a while. I have a Kel-Tec and Llama in ACP and my everyday carry is a Smith J-frame in .327, which is a .32 caliber beast! Due to the lack of availability of .22 ammo for the past few years, my affection for the .32's and the abundance of .32ACP brass in my possession I got rid of all my .22's and acquired a Marlin 1892 in .32 Colt "parts gun". I reamed the chamber so that it now accepts .32s&w and .32ACP. I have 2 decent loads using Rim Rocks 78gr lrn, 1.7 and 2.5gr Unique. The 1.7gr load is quiet but leaves ALOT of unburned powder. I've been thinking about trying 2400 to take advantage of it's slower burn in the 24" rifle barrel. I've been using WSP primers do I need magnum's.


Do I need to start another thread for this?

C.S.

[Outpost75]

I load #2400 for a .32 ACP bolt action rifle converted from a Remington 580, and for a .32 S&W Long break-open single-shot which was built on the tiny pre-WW2 H&R .44/.410 shotgun frame. I also use the .32 ACP loads in my Beretta 3032 INOX, CZ 27 and Walther PP, the .380 loads in an M1934 Beretta and a Ruger LCP, and the .32 S&W Long loads in two late-1960s Colt D-frame revolvers.

158512158513158514

My experience has been that in tiny cases, such as the .32 ACP, .380 ACP and .32 S&W Long, using somewhat heavy bullets for the caliber, such as Accurate 31-087T in the .32 ACP, 36-125T in the .380 ACP and 31-134D in the .32 S&W Long, that using Federal 200 or WSP primers and a lightly compressed nominal caseful of powder, about 5.6 grains in .32 ACP, 6.3 grains in .380 ACP and .32 S&W Long, that you get safe and satisfactory results, with good accuracy and a clean burn with minimal unburned powder.

These loads have not been pressure tested, but I have shot lots of them with no issues in my guns.

Your mileage may vary. I cannot speak to the relative strength of the Kel-Tec or Llama compared to my Berettas, Walthers and Rugers. I can say that with less than a case full of powder and with standard weight bullets, you don't get effective combustion or acceptable ballistic uniformity with #2400. It requires a heavy bullet AND a case full of powder with no airspace. Ejected cases showed no signs of high pressure, and Alliant #2400 is so slow that I really don't think you could get enough into these small cases to get into any trouble. However this is absolutely a "gray" area beyond the load books and neither the powder manufacturers nor the reloading manual publishers recommend this, so just because I am a bit nuts and experiment beyond the norm, I am not recommending that YOU do it.

Many people view this as a "hold my beer and watch this!" moment, but I have been doing this for a long time and used to get paid to destruct test and blow up guns for a living. You are more likely to blow up a pistol using a small charge of fast burning powder combined with an undersized bullet and improperly sized case with inadequate bullet pull, to prevent "bullet push" which lets the bullet telescope back into the case against the powder charge, than you are using a compressed charge of slow powder which firmly supports the bullet base in the same manner as was recommended back in the stone age when everyone used black powder.

I used compressed charges of RL7 or 4198 in my .44-40 rifles, and have tested these for pressure than they are within SAAMI limits and safe for the 1873 Winchester. I think using #2400 in the .32 ACP with its limited case capacity is performing in a similar manner and if ejected cases do not show head swelling from high residual pressure during initial extraction, the loads are safe. In a LOCKED BREECH gun, such as your Marlin rifle there are no issues whatever. Often recommended loads with the fast burning powders which quickly generate their maximum peak pressure are more worrisome if you mis read a scale or accidentally double charge, which WILL blow up a gun. You can't double-charge with #2400!

[9.3X62AL]

When Outpost writes something, I read it and pay close attention. Many thanks, sir.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Having a WW2 `trophy bring back` CZ 27 in .32 acp also I am wondering what dia. are you sizing this boolet to for use in the CZ and what type of lube?Robert

[carolina sorillo]

I use 2400 in .45 Colt+p and .327 and really like it. It meters waaay better than Unique and fills the case too(like you said, no double charges). I have done some loading "off the book" but I usually have some published data at least in a similar cartridge somewhat close. But for the .32ACP the closest 2400 published data I've found is s&w long.
Your experience with the heavy bullet makes since. Unfortunately, the only large bullet I have on hand is a 115gr rnfp. I'm pretty sure it can't be made to cycle in a pistol. However, it may be just the ticket in the Marlin.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge,
C.S.

[Outpost75]

For over a year now, my friends and I have been experimenting in trying to approach .380 ACP payload and velocity as close as can be done safely in sturdy, steel-frame .32 ACPs. Alliant #2400 appeared at first to be the safest powder to experiment with bullets over 80 grains, because you can't get enough into a .32 ACP case to get into trouble. As bullet weight and seating depth increase, powder capacity is reduced, which is self-limiting.

Accurate 31-087T with 5.6 grains of #2400, metered from RCBS Little Dandy Measure Rotor #7 is compressed, giving over 900 fps from a 3.4” barrel and 825 fps from the 2.4" barrel of the Beretta Tomcat. It is a well proven, safe load.

Substituting the heavier Accurate 31-090B, which has a shape like the Buffalo Bore, but with longer nose to provide 0.94-0.95 overall cartridge length, powder capacity is limited by its increased seating depth. You can't seat the 090B bullet deeply enough over 5.6 grains of #2400 to reach the crimp groove, due to powder compression. The next smaller RCBS LD rotor #6 drops 5.2 grains, but powder combustion was less than perfect and unburned powder granules left in the chamber caused function problems, so reducing #2400 for us was a non-starter. So, we needed a different powder...

Pulling down some Buffalo Bore 75-grain rounds, they contained 3 grains of an unidentified Ball powder. When researching potential propellants I came across Winchester AutoComp, which is the darling of IPSC shooters for high performance loads in the .38 Super. Its burning rate compares to HS6, HS7, the discontinued Winchester Action Pistol and older WC630 powders. It is 1.3 times as dense as Bullseye. It works out that if your measure is already adjusted to meter a safe load with Bullseye, you can then dump the Bullseye out of the measure, refill with AutoComp and go! Little Dandy Rotor #0 which drops 2.2 grains of Bullseye standard charge for the .32 ACP, also meters 3 grains of AutoComp, the recommended charge on the Olin website for 958 fps with 71-grain FMJ bullet in the .32 ACP from the 4” SAAMI test barrel at only 14,800 psi. The SAAMI MAP for .32 ACP is 22,500 psi, the Max Average Pressure here being defined as the sample average plus 3 standard deviations. This meant that I had some "wiggle room" IF, (and, admittedly, it's a big "if") the load is VERY uniform, which it turned out to be.

I cautiously loaded 10 rounds each with 31-087T and 31-090B with 3 grains of AutoComp, to check velocity, inspect ejected cases, and see if my Beretta Tomcat blew up! http://usrsog.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif As expected, the soft, solid, flatnosed, cast bullets did not expand, but perforated a 36" stack of water jugs, just like the Buffalo Bore load, and could be heard bouncing off the trees downrange.

The HP version of 31-087T, showed real promise! When hollow-pointed by Erik Ohlen at http://www.hollowpointmold.com (http://www.hollowpointmold.com/) it weighs 83 grains in 1:30. Velocity approaches 1000 fps with 3 grains of AutoComp from my M1935 Beretta with 3.4" barrel and 900+ fps from the 2.4" Tomcat, where they expand to .50 caliber and penetrate 24 inches of water jugs, much deeper than factory JHP rounds do if they are fragile enough to expand from a short barrel. (Water penetration is about 1.7 to 1.8 times greater than gelatin, as an approximation.)

Inspection of ejected cartridge cases showed no bulged heads, flattened or backed out primers, evidence of early opening which would indicate significant residual chamber pressure. Case heads which swell and fired brass which won't go back into the shell holder to resize, are clear indicators of excessive pressure in a blowback gun! Velocity of the 87- and 90 grain bullets with 3 grains of AutoComp exceeded that of the Buffalo Bore factory 75-grain loads, and did so with the heavier bullets!

Ammunition ___________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”____Beretta M1935 3.4”

WW2 Geco Steel Case 77-gr FMJ___907 fps, 14 Sd_________977 fps, 11 Sd - from estate of ETO vet, WW2 Wehrmacht issue.
WW2 WRA Co. 73-grain FMJ_______923 fps, 28 Sd________1001 fps, 15 Sd - from estate of CBI vet, WW2 US Army issue
RWS 73-grain FMJ_______________896 fps, 29 Sd_________981 fps, 16 Sd - old stock 1960s from German police
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ______________848, fps, 32 Sd________917 fps, 11 Sd - current production
Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 6 Sd_________997 fps, 7 Sd - current production

Accurate 31-087T LD#7, 5.6 #2400__825 fps,15 Sd_________926 fps, 14 Sd - well proven good load.
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 3.0 AutoComp__915 fps, 16 Sd_________999 fps, 14 Sd - "Maximum Effort Mousegun"
Acc. 31-090B LD#0, 2.2 Bullseye____786 fps, 11 Sd_________851 fps, 14 Sd - Practice load of Bullseye same measure setting

In handguns of marginal power, reliability of function and fully adequate penetration, not less than 20” of water or approximating 12” of gelatin, are more important than expansion. A flat nose ensures good "crush" characteristics. Getting 24" of water penetration in a bullet of over 80 grains from a .32 ACP, which expands to .50 cal. from a 2.4" barrel is waaaay cool!

There is no substitute for VICTORY!

173815173816

[LouisianaMan]

Outpost,
Now I'm dying to assemble all these components for my FN 1910/22. Nice, weighty steel gun, long tube--should really be an eye-opener! Don't see how it could get much better...even if going up against hypothermic Red Chinese frogmen or the like :-)))

Not only does it outperform even the BB load by a country mile, but I could get mold, dies, and powder for the price of 4-6 boxes of BB ammo, and practice without cringing as I fired ammo that costs $1-2 per shot.

[Outpost75]

Outpost,
Now I'm dying to assemble all these components for my FN 1910/22. Nice, weighty steel gun, long tube--should really be an eye-opener! Don't see how it could get much better...even if going up against hypothermic Red Chinese frogmen or the like :-)))

Not only does it outperform even the BB load by a country mile, but I could get mold, dies, and powder for the price of 4-6 boxes of BB ammo, and practice without cringing as I fired ammo that costs $1-2 per shot.

I think that the ghost of Harry J. Archer would approve. With what's going on in the South China Sea these days, maybe I should have my medical mission buddy take some to the PI on his next trip, and maybe we could get a repeat of the hypothermic Chicom combat swimmer test 50 years hence...

[LouisianaMan]

You might be right at that...people who think that history is "past" aren't necessarily thinking through the entire problem, are they?
When I get my hands on these components, I'll be using them in an FN 1910/22, so perhaps Harry's erstwhile boat captain would approve....

[Outpost75]

You might be right at that...people who think that history is "past" aren't necessarily thinking through the entire problem, are they? When I get my hands on these components, I'll be using them in an FN 1910/22, so perhaps Harry's erstwhile boat captain would approve....

Indeed!

And my medical missionary friend has a ca. 1940 Belgian M1922 with Nazi overstamps, holster, cleaning rod and spare mag.

[victorfox]

When Outpost writes something, I read it and pay close attention. Many thanks, sir.

And it's advisable to open a new file in computer and save it. The man is a wealth of knowledge and experience, like many other in this board. That's why I opened and account and keep hanged on this forum only! :)

[Outpost75]

Having a WW2 `trophy bring back` CZ 27 in .32 acp also I am wondering what dia. are you sizing this boolet to for use in the CZ and what type of lube?Robert

Sorry for not answering this earlier. My Walthers and Colts like .311, Wartime CZs and Berettas .312, postwar Berettas .311, Pre-war FN Browning .309

[Hardcast416taylor]

Sorry for not answering this earlier. My Walthers and Colts like .311, Wartime CZs and Berettas .312, postwar Berettas .311, Pre-war FN Browning .309

Thanks for the help. I`ve since my 1st posting got a `broom handle Mauser` in .30 Mauser to figure out a load for, will my headaches never cease!Robert

[Outpost75]

In the M96, Accurate 31-087T of COWW, running the mold hot so that bullets are uniformly frosted, water drop, size and lube at .310-.311", 4 grains of Bullseye as starting load, increase only enough to get gun to cycle, usually takes 4.2-4.5 grains. Don't exceed 5 grains in the M96, for 1370 fps.

In the TT33 5 grains should cycle, but it takes 5.5 grains for 1420 fps to cycle the CZ52. This is OK in the Tokarev, but too much for M96 Broomhandle.

[Earlwb]

This is all great information. Thanks for sharing it.

[Outpost75]

New 31-095T http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-095T-D.png from Accurate represents the heaviest, with largest meplat and with most blunt profile which will feed in the 1903 Colt and Beretta M1935. Same .26" nose length as Accurate 31-090B, but with .25" meplat (.80 of bullet diameter!) with short radius behind nose flat to contact feed ramp.

Based on firings years ago with factory Winchester lead 100-grain .32-20 bullets and the Saeco #325 semi-wadcutter sized down and loaded in .32 ACP, both of those bullets being of similar weight and meplat size, this one"should" feed, because the Saeco and Winchester bullets did reliably in those guns. Big difference is that this bullet is optimized to fit the CIP chamber throat and match the magazine box profile much better, providing a cartridge OAL of 0.94" which is adequate with this profile to positively prevent any possibility of rimlock, unlike the Jam-O-Matic Buffalo Bore 75-grain loads.

We are looking here for 780+ fps in the micro guns like the Beretta Tomcat for 130 ft.-lbs., and 850+ in the standard sized pistols such as the Colt for 150 ft.-lbs. with 2.5 grains of AutoComp or 5.2 grs. of Alliant #2400.

Objective is deep penetration with excellent crush at low velocity in a bullet which doesn't require a hollowpoint to be effective. I am waiting on the mold to arrive and will report when it does.

175144

[Outpost75]

Wow. I thought I was hardcore with my Accurate 31-076 at 890 fps in my Kel-Tec!!

Here are some test data for 77-78 grain bullets which approximate the 75-grain Buffalo Bore:

Ammunition _________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 16 Sd
Ctg. OAL 0.715", frequent failures to feed, occasional "rimlock"

Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400_______913 fps, 16 Sd Ctg.
OAL 0.945, feeds reliably and prevents "rimlock"

Acc. 31-077B 2.5 HP38____________810 fps, 12 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique______965 fps, 26 Sd
NOE/RD 78-gr. FN 2.2 Green Dot____*920 fps, 21 Sd -
*Velocity from Colt M1903 - Recommended by BigSlug
NOE/RD 78-gr. FN 2.4 Green Dot____*1004 fps, 13 Sd DO NOT EXCEED!

[bouncer50]

I wonder how that load would work in a 32 French long. I have a Model A and the S model. The Model A is a lock breach the other a blow back. My friend make ammo from 32 long with the cut down rim. Factory ammo is like 1,100 FPS i used the top range of 32 acp loading data for mine to reload. Many people never shot a 32 French because a lack of ammo.

[Outpost75]

I wonder how that load would work in a 32 French long. I have a Model A and the S model. The Model A is a lock breach the other a blow back. My friend make ammo from 32 long with the cut down rim. Factory ammo is like 1,100 FPS i used the top range of 32 acp loading data for mine to reload. Many people never shot a 32 French because a lack of ammo.

If you load for the 7.65 Longue I could send you some bullets. Would be good to know.

[9.3X62AL]

My time-in-grade with the M1935 MAS in 7.65 Longue showed me that reliable cycling only occurs with Lyman #313249 (84 grains) at 900 FPS or above. I have yet to try Lyman #311252 in the pistol (75 grains).

[Outpost75]

Accurate 31-087T is of an easy feeding shape and is about the right weight.

[LouisianaMan]

Outpost, I've got access to the RD 75g mold and already have a good supply of its 77.5g bullets to load for my FN 1910/22. I also have magnum primers and 2400 powder now, plus various powders more typically used for the .32 ACP. Any ideas??


Here are some test data for 77-78 grain bullets which approximate the 75-grain Buffalo Bore:

Ammunition _________________Beretta Tomcat 2.4”

Buffalo Bore 75-grain LFN_________883, fps, 16 Sd

Ctg. OAL 0.715", frequent failures to feed, occasional "rimlock"

Accurate 31-077B 5.9 #2400_______913 fps, 16 Sd Ctg.
OAL 0.945, feeds reliably and prevents "rimlock"

Acc. 31-077B 2.5 HP38____________810 fps, 12 Sd
Acc. 31-077B LD#4 3.0 Unique______965 fps, 26 Sd
NOE/RD 78-gr. FN 2.2 Green Dot____*920 fps, 21 Sd -
*Velocity from Colt M1903 - Recommended by BigSlug
NOE/RD 78-gr. FN 2.4 Green Dot____*1004 fps, 13 Sd DO NOT EXCEED!

[Outpost75]

Any of the loads in that table should work. Try to load bullets out to at least 0.94" overall cartridge length.

5.9 grains of #2400 or 3 grains of AutoComp equal the Buffalo Bore load. Looking at 1000 fps in a 3.5" barrel.

I would split the difference on BigSlug's two loads and go 2.3 of Green Dot ifypuue that.

[kawasakifreak77]

Wow.

And here I thought I'd just buy a few boxes of ammo for my 1903 & call it a day...

[rintinglen]

Question. How closely does the POI coincide with the POA?

I have a Tomcat and my attempts with a heavy for cal boolit were unsatisfactory due to the disparity between where I aimed and where it hit. I was running a 311-245 over a dis-remembered charge of WW-231. There was a spread of nearly 18 inches between where I aimed and where I hit at 30 feet.

[LIMPINGJ]

Outpost75 have you tried the 31-090B in a Tok? I was all set to order the 31-087T for my Tok and 32s when I saw this new one you had. Any ideas on which mold would work best for these two?

[Outpost75]

Outpost75 have you tried the 31-090B in a Tok? I was all set to order the 31-087T for my Tok and 32s when I saw this new one you had. Any ideas on which mold would work best for these two?

Have not tried in a TT, feeds fine in my CZ52 if that helps.

The 31-087T is a proven reliable feeder in pistols and SMGs which don't run flatnosed bullets.

There is now a 93-grain bevel-based version http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-093T-D.png
for the .30 Luger and 7.63 Mauser or 7.62x25 Tokarev

[Outpost75]

Question. How closely does the POI coincide with the POA?

I have a Tomcat and my attempts with a heavy for cal boolit were unsatisfactory due to the disparity between where I aimed and where it hit. I was running a 311-245 over a dis-remembered charge of WW-231. There was a spread of nearly 18 inches between where I aimed and where I hit at 30 feet.

In my pistols point of impact with either 87T or 90B with full charge loads coincide with RWS 73-grain hardball, no issues in any pistol I've shot it in. My hunting buddy "ER Doc" uses the Accurate 31-090B in his Walther PPk with 3 grains of AutoComp and says that it shoots to the sights at 15 yards for him and cleans the plate rack with authority like it was a .380 ACP.

175452

[Outpost75]

Latest iteration in my .32 ACP testing from Accurate 31-084H has .311" driving bands and .26" nose length with crimp groove, 0.2 meplat, front band north of crimp groove is .311" diameter with tolerance negative to fit CIP chamber in Walther PP, Beretta 81 and SIG P230.

215413

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

0 ...

[Outpost75]

Do you use the crimp groove? I'm about to hopefully start casting and loading for a Seecamp ... but looking at a bit less weight boolit ... actually the Accurate 31-065H, but stretch the front driving band by .03" and expand the melplat to 0.20 ...

I do use the crimp groove, both as a visual reference to ensure correct seating depth and as added insurance to prevent bullets telescoping or setting back when they strike the feed ramp. The 0.26" head length is correct to provide a 0.945-0.955" cartridge OAL to prevent rimlock in Walther, SIG, Colt or Beretta magazines. I believe that OAL is too long for a Seecamp.

215431

Buffalo Bore 75-grain FN factory load at left 0.915" OAL is dimensioned for Seecamp mags, but is a "Jam-O-Matic" in WW2-era pistols with magazine boxes dimensioned for CIP FMJ. Accurate 31-090B and 31-084H at 0.945-0.955" length feed reliably in Colt M1903, Beretta M1935, CZ27, Walther PP, SIG P230

[Texas by God]

I have used Outpost's bullets & loads in a Walther PP. Talk about the mouse that roared!!
Power and precision in a little package.
And my lever action 30-30 likes them too. Come April a Tom turkey may find out how much....
Thanks, Outpost!

[Petrol & Powder]

When Outpost writes something, I read it and pay close attention. Many thanks, sir.

I concur

[Petrol & Powder]

And a little off topic but not by much - The Beretta 1935 pistol and it's brother the 1934 are STRONG little pistols.

They are single action and the safeties aren't the most ergonomic controls so they're not the fastest things to deploy but they sure are reliable.

I have a little trigger time with the Beretta model 1934 (380) and it's an impressive tool for what it is. Probably not the best tool for self-defense due to its lack of double action or easy to manipulate safety but a solid gun. I've been looking for a good model 1934 or 1935 but the prices are creeping up and the supply is creeping down.

[Outpost75]

Note on the Beretta 1934 and 1935 pistols. I was taught by the Carabinieri that when you shoot the gun dry, to retract the slide slightly, to permit engaging the safety to engage the slide notch, holding the slide back while the empty magazine is more easily removed. Then the fresh reload mag is inserted and the safety disengaged, releasing the slide and chambering a round in the same manner we are quite familiar with on the M1911 .45 pistol. THIS is the way the gun is supposed to be operated. Roy Dunlap discusses this in his book "Ordnance Went Up Front." (Stackpole, 1948).

[LouisianaMan]

This procedure makes perfect sense, and I wish I’d known it when I had a very nice M1935!



And a little off topic but not by much - The Beretta 1935 pistol and it's brother the 1934 are STRONG little pistols.

They are single action and the safeties aren't the most ergonomic controls so they're not the fastest things to deploy but they sure are reliable.

I have a little trigger time with the Beretta model 1934 (380) and it's an impressive tool for what it is. Probably not the best tool for self-defense due to its lack of double action or easy to manipulate safety but a solid gun. I've been looking for a good model 1934 or 1935 but the prices are creeping up and the supply is creeping down.


Note on the Beretta 1934 and 1935 pistols. I was taught by the Carabinieri that when you shoot the gun dry, to retract the slide slightly, to permit engaging the safety to engage the slide notch, holding the slide back while the empty magazine is more easily removed. Then the fresh reload mag is inserted and the safety disengaged, releasing the slide and chambering a round in the same manner we are quite familiar with on the M1911 .45 pistol. THIS is the way the gun is supposed to be operated. Roy Dunlap discusses this in his book "Ordnance Went Up Front." (Stackpole, 1948).

[Led]

Hello all,

I just joined castboolits for this thread. I'm a long time hand loader and have a thing for larger frame 32's. My favorite are Beretta 81's. When researching loads for 32 ACP I found this thread via a google search. I have tried the 5.9g 2400 behind a 77g HCRN. So far it works great, no signs of excessive pressure or problems with extraction. Next up I will chronograph some loads and will share the data here. All of my 81's have been resprung with XP Wolfe springs. My exp so far has been good, the load feels like a 380 and it seems to regulate well with the sights. Big thanks to Outpost75 for the information.

Thanks,
Led

[Alferd Packer]

I have received a Beretta model 81.
I am wanting to reload some of these loads using the 5.2 to 5.6 grains of 2400 under the 90 grain LEE TL semiwadcutter.

I am enthused by the Harry Archer reference as well as Outpost 75's listing of the 1934 -1935 Beretta loads.
The Beretta model 81 has an aluminum receiver but I believe it heavy enough to carry the proposed loads that the all steel 1934 is able to handle.
Any opinions or comments?
I am going to find some autocomp to try and I just need to cast more 90 grain LEE's.i have a Lyman mold for the 77 grain round nose in .32.
Also the LEE round nose 93 grain and 100 grain.
I like to modify the round nose with a swage die that flattens the nose for a nice meplat. I have been casting and reloading for everything .32 caliber from double action top breaks to single action Ruger .32's.
I had a .380 1934 Beretta Dad brought home from wartime Italy. I reloaded and shot it many ye

[Alferd Packer]

I have under consideration some loads using 5.2 -5.9 hrs AA #9 powder under the LEE 93 grain round nose with a 1/4 inch meplat impressed on the nose to be considered for use in the Beretta model 81 with the steel slide, .380 recoil spring and the aluminum lower receiver.
Still in contemplation stage, till I get the 2400 load results/trials completed.These using the 93 grain LEE round nose with the impressed meplat.

[Outpost75]

Earlier post of mine from September 2019:

"My early Model 81 Beretta pistol looks almost new, as do the others of friends who also bought them. Great DA trigger pull feels just like my old Colt Official Police .38 revolver. SA trigger pull is more like my M1911 .45 ACP hardball gun. I like that the pistol can be carried safely with the chamber loaded, “cocked and locked” and that mag release is in the same location as the US M1911. But you also have the option of carrying hammer down and firing the first shot DA.

My pistol “eats anything” in the way of ammo, US or Euro FMJ, JHP, cast bullet hand loads and even the Buffalo Bore 75-grain FN which is only 0.915” OAL and jams in every other .32 ACP pistol I have. This Beretta 81 runs it like a pony trotting. The 3.82” barrel gives really impressive velocity compared to the pocket mouse guns. Holster-sized pistol handles well for rapid, 2-second double and triple taps, having light recoil, and very quick recovery.

With respect to handloads, be aware that chambers are TIGHT. Observed this in three pistols owned by myself and friends whose guns all arrived at the same time. Mixed headstamp range brass requires that cast bullets be sized .309-.310.” Reloads must be run through the Redding .32 S&W Long profile crimp or Lee Factory crimp die, as if there is any case bulge the slide won’t close fully. After taking this precaution all reloads ran, even Accurate 31-095T ogival wadcutter which has ¼” diameter flat nose!

Point of impact was slightly left, but corrected easily by drifting the rear sight.

Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ gave 964 fps, 26 Sd, 65 ES, all in the timed and rapid-fire black, 4” group at 25 yards. typical accuracy for a .32 ACP pistol firing ball ammo. My friends and I are very satisfied with our pistols.

– Outpost75, West Virginia"

Recently I have been shooting the Beretta 81 with the .309" diameter 90-grain Hornady XTP in Starline cases with Remington 6-1/2 primers with 3 grains of AutoComp at 0.955" OAL and also with the Remington .309", 93-grain FMJ for the .30 Luger using the same load.

The heavy slide and stiff springs (apparently the same as the .380 ACP Model 84 Beretta) function well and shoot accurately with these heavy .32 ACP loads, as payload and velocity are similar. Have fired several hundred rounds in testing so far with zero signs of frame battering. Accurate 31-094H sized .311" also shoots very well as does 31-090B using 2 grains of TiteGroup or 2.5 grains of WST or 231.

I will continue to use the 81 as my .32 ACP test platform and log rounds fired, but I anticipate no issues.

[JWFilips]

I have always wondered why the 32 acp was called a mouse gun....yet folks persist in using 380 acp!
The 32 acp was the go to caliber for police force for the 1st half of the 19th century. The speed and penetration far exceeds what now folks carry in the lowly .380 acp! Do your research! Not to mention it is one of the most accurate ACP cartridges outside of the 45 acp!
All this information is lost...find it you will be surprised!

[rondog]

Interesting, will have to read this closer. My Mauser 1914 Pocket Pistol keeps telling me it wants hotter ammo.....

[Eddie Southgate]

Outpost75 ,
Am not able to open your attachments . Has anyone else had an issue with them ?

Eddie

[Alferd Packer]

2400 powder and AA #9 are close together on the Burn Rate charts and some charts even show them reverses in position showing no.9 being faster than 2400 .
I have shot them both in
.44 mag and heavy 45 colt loads.
I believe them to be close in pressure required for good burn.
Not interchangeable, but still very close in characteristically being accurate and similar weights.
Close enough to carefully take a chance in a .32 acp loading.
First more testing using .32 S&W loads in a Ruger revolver using 2400 and no.9 loads for comparison testing.
This will take quite a while so I will let you know what I find out.
Meantime, others are free to do the same.

[Outpost75]

PM me with email address which can accept .pdf attachmdnts. I can send direct. Others report no issues.

[JWFilips]

The 7.65 mm Browning European ammo has always been much hotter than the American counterpart (.32 acp)
This is why the European 8 mm Mauser cartridges are more powerful than Any American loading for that caliber
I have a number of old 32 acps I have a Mauser 1914 also. All shoot great and are very accurate pistols

A 3.0 Grain Unique load with a cast Ranch Dog FN 75 grain bullet ( load not by C.O.L. but by Depth of the bullet base in the case..... to stay safe)
Makes one impressive CC load

[Oyeboten]

Is anyone her Loading for the SAVAGE .32 Pistols?

The ones I have definitely work a lot better with 'hotter' than usual Ammo, or, require to to cycle properly at all...and I expect US .32 ACP was peppier in the early 1900s than it is now.

[Outpost75]

Is anyone her Loading for the SAVAGE .32 Pistols?

The ones I have definitely work a lot better with 'hotter' than usual Ammo, or, require to to cycle properly at all...and I expect US .32 ACP was peppier in the early 1900s than it is now.

I no longer own a Savage pistol, but they are well made and shoot well. However, I would not load any hotter than needed to cycle reliably, due to the difficulty of finding replacement parts. Accurate 31-081H with 2.5 grains of Bullseye is max. load which functions well. Air cooled wheelweights are fine. No need to quench. Size .311 withLee Liquid Alox. Work up from 2 grains at 0.955" OAL until you get reliable function, the sweet spot in most pistols is around 2.2-2.3 grains of Bullseye. DO NOT EXCEED 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

274799

Some chronograph data for WW2-era .32 ACP ammo I have tested:

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” and Current Euro-CIP Factory Ammunition
Ammunition ________________Beretta M1935 3.4”
WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ______1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ____________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ__________917 fps, 11 Sd

274800274801274802274803

[Oyeboten]

I no longer own a Savage pistol, but they are well made and shoot well. However, I would not load any hotter than needed to cycle reliably, due to the difficulty of finding replacement parts. Accurate 31-081H with 2.5 grains of Bullseye is max. load which functions well. Air cooled wheelweights are fine. No need to quench. Size .311 withLee Liquid Alox. Work up from 2 grains at 0.955" OAL until you get reliable function, the sweet spot in most pistols is around 2.2-2.3 grains of Bullseye. DO NOT EXCEED 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

274799

Some chronograph data for WW2-era .32 ACP ammo I have tested:

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” and Current Euro-CIP Factory Ammunition
Ammunition ________________Beretta M1935 3.4”
WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ______1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ____________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ__________917 fps, 11 Sd

274800274801274802274803

Thank you Outpost 75..!

Just out of curiosity - what would you think of the old IDEAL .32-20 Target Revolver Bullet, of 93 Grains, for possible .32 ACP use?

( Sorry, this Mold had the light rust on it when i got it and I have not cleaned it yet )

https://media.fotki.com/2v2HNYzzdx9J4Vm.jpg (https://private.fotki.com/PhilBphil/new-album/ideal-313-445.html)Hosted on Fotki (https://www.fotki.com)

[Outpost75]

I would be worried about seating depth, being excessive when seated deep enough for wadcutter shoulder to chamber.

[Led]

This is from another thread I started on this topic.

274929

This is a RimRock 100g RNFP (On my scale it's 96g). Seating to the crimp groove requires .25 inches according to my calipers. OAL of the bullet is .57 inches. A fully assembled round measures .002 longer than published 32 acp max length. In my opinion this seats as deep as one can go in a 32 acp case. In some brass (PPU) the rounds have to be sized in a LEE factory crimp die to chamber in my Beretta 81. Chronograph and load data below.

10 round string, Ave 956 ft/s, ES 69 ft/s, SD 18 ft/s, energy 195 ft/lbs.

Load is 5 grains of 2400 slightly compressed. It ran fine in my Beretta 81 with aftermarket Mecgar mags. With factory mags it's just a hair too long and will jam in the mag body on the nose. A slight wack on the mag will allow the stack to move.

This was based on Outpost75's research and powder recommendations.

Thanks,
Stephen

[GBertolet]

I would like to try some of these loads in my HSC Mauser. Where would I find a heavier recoil spring? Wolffe lists the same spring for the 32 and 380. I don't want to risk cracking the frame on my gun.

[Led]

I don't have exp with the HSC. Is it steel frame or aluminum? Since Wolff lists the same spring for 32 or 380 you'd probably be fine. My 81BB is running the factory spring. Beretta lists the same part number for the 81 (32acp) and 84 (380) recoil spring.

Thanks,
Stephen

[GBertolet]

It's a wartime, steel frame HSC.

[Oyeboten]

I would be worried about seating depth, being excessive when seated deep enough for wadcutter shoulder to chamber.

I'd crimp lower on, below the Shoulder, so as to have right over-all length...and or find out empirically with a 'dummy' round, what OAL is good for things to behave properly in the Magazine, and go from there.

It's just such a cool little Bullet! It'd be nice if it can work well for .32 ACP.

[Gray Fox]

Do you know if your load of 2400 and the Accurate 87T will function safely in a Seecamp? GF

[Outpost75]

Do you know if your load of 2400 and the Accurate 87T will function safely in a Seecamp? GF

Will not~!

[Gray Fox]

OK, I guess that was clear enough. I was thinking it might be stronger than a tip up Beretta. GF

[Outpost75]

OK, I guess that was clear enough. I was thinking it might be stronger than a tip up Beretta. GF

I wouldn't bet on it.

[Led]

Greeting all. I've been absent for a bit but I return with new data. Below is a comparison of Alliant Blue Dot and IMR Blue.

First the Alliant Blue Dot, I've posted these results before but am posting them again for comparison.

Beretta 81BB, 78g Rimrock RN .313 Dia, 4.0g Alliant Blue Dot, PPU cases, 10 round string, 1009 ft/s ave, 125 ft/s ES, 42 ft/s SD

Now the IMR Blue results,

Beretta 81BB, 78g Rimrock RN .313 Dia, 4.0g IMR Blue, W-W cases, 10 round string, 922 ft/s Ave, 100 ft/s ES, 32 ft/s SD
A note about the W-W cases, the available powder capacity was noticeably smaller than the PPU cases. I could see the difference
visually with two charged cases sitting side by side on the bench. If I used the 4.0g IMR Blue charge in a PPU cases I would expect
to see some velocity loss do to the larger case volume of the PPU cases.

Beretta 81BB, 78g Rimrock RN .313 Dia, 4.4g IMR Blue, W-W cases, 10 round string, 1027 ft/s Ave, 58 ft/s ES, 19 ft/s SD
This load was compressed a touch in the W-W cases and I consider it MAX for the W-W cases. This load shot great and had the feel
of Outpost75's other heavy 32 ACP loads.

Based on this comparison I would speculate the IMR Blue is a touch slower than the modern Alliant Blue Dot. The IMR Blue burns very cleanly just like Blue Dot does. IMR Blue very much reminds me of the old Hercules Blue Dot. I also intend to re-shoot these loads with the higher capacity commercial cases like R-P, PPU or Aguila.



Reference load shot from this Beretta 81BB as requested by Outpost75.

PPU Factory 73g FMJ, 10 round string, 876 ft/s Ave, 68 ft/s ES, 24 ft/s SD

[Outpost75]

Good info. Thx. for posting. If possible next time please fire a factory load for reference, whatever you have. Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ is a readily obtained CIP load I use for that purpose.

[Led]

I have data for PPU 73g hardball from the same Beretta 81BB.

PPU Factory 73g FMJ, 10 round string, 876 ft/s Ave, 68 ft/s ES, 24 ft/s SD

Thanks,
Stephen

[Outpost75]

Outstanding!

[BobbyJ]

I no longer own a Savage pistol, but they are well made and shoot well. However, I would not load any hotter than needed to cycle reliably, due to the difficulty of finding replacement parts. Accurate 31-081H with 2.5 grains of Bullseye is max. load which functions well. Air cooled wheelweights are fine. No need to quench. Size .311 withLee Liquid Alox. Work up from 2 grains at 0.955" OAL until you get reliable function, the sweet spot in most pistols is around 2.2-2.3 grains of Bullseye. DO NOT EXCEED 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

274799

Some chronograph data for WW2-era .32 ACP ammo I have tested:

.32 ACP “WW2 Vintage,” and Current Euro-CIP Factory Ammunition
Ammunition ________________Beretta M1935 3.4”
WW2 Geco Steel Cased FMJ____977 fps, 11 Sd
WW2 WRA 73-grain FMJ______1001 fps, 15 Sd
RWS 73-grain FMJ____________981 fps, 16 Sd
Fiocchi 73-grain FMJ__________917 fps, 11 Sd

Enjoyed reading your 32 acp posts.
I just started reloading for it but only have two powders to fit the bill HS6 and Win 244 (similar to 231)
I bought a bunch of Berrys 71 gr FMJ it was priced right doubt I'll be casting bullets at least for now.

I plugged in your 2400 numbers into Quickload using 87gr and .975 seating. 5.6 gr of 2400 is around 100 percent fill -+ and pressures show 16.760k (cant rely on quickload for accurate pressures though) But you are dead on with it being safe, can't double load it, self limiting.

The only thing that was a negative was it lists the amount of powder burned as only 47% while 231 gives 95 percent burn.
Does it have more muzzle flash vs like red dot?

I put other powders in to see which could fill 100 percent and either the pressures were way high or too low. So 2400 fits the bill for case fill and pressure and safety. Maybe the burn rate is not correct on quickload.

I made up 2.1 to 2.4gr win244 loads with the 71 grain at .984" Next time out I'll chrono it. Have a 1951 VZ 50 and 1980s
CZ 82 to test them with.

[Led]

In my exp with Outpost75's 2400 loads it burns better than indicated by the modeling software. The heaver the bullet the better with 2400 in 32 acp. I've gone as high as 100g with excellent results.

I've had some success with Alliant Blue Dot in 32 acp.

Later,
Stephen