Disappointed in Colt

[osteodoc08]

So I've been on a 1911 kick lately and really wanted a Colt. I looked at the Colt Rail Gun, XSE line, 1991 Government Model and the Gold Cups. There is either too much frame and slide play for my liking, the slide overhangs the rear of the frame or the safety does not snick on and off. Kinda lazy drags going on safe and too much effort coming off safe. I really want a Colt but haven't found a good one yet.

On on the other hand I did purchase a Kimber Raptor in blue which has been fabulous and I ran 350+ reloads without issue the other day.

Now I want a target model with adjustable target sights. But which to go with?

1. Gold Cup
2. Kimber Target
3. SA Range Officer (LGS has a pre RO but same set up for $700 but could get for less OTD)
4. Used Kimber Gold Match for similar of others new ($900ish)

[Love Life]

Yeah, Colt needs to fire their thumb safety fitter person. Everyday is a bad day for him or her.

[ReloaderFred]

Colt is in either Chapter 11 or Chapter 13 right now, so there's probably not much incentive to do "craft" work.

Fred

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I got the Colt 1911 I wanted a few years ago but the thumb safety had to go for the exact reasons you described. I had a Wilson low profile thumb safety fitted to replace the ambidextrous factory safety. The new Wilson low profile did the trick.

[Love Life]

It's just a daggone shame that the original manufacturer of a product this old can't correctly fit a thumb safety.

They did just receive a $212,000,000 gubmint contract.

[Petrol & Powder]

Back when I was frequently playing with the 1911 I had a couple of Colts. My overall impression of Colt wasn't good. The older commercial ones actually seemed to be far better than the newer ones. My experience with Kimber was much better.
Kimber makes a good 1911 for the money, maybe the best in its class. After Kimber you have to jump way up in price and get into the Les Baer type territory.
The key to accuracy of a 1911 is consistency of the barrel lock-up to the slide and a little bit of the slide to frame fit. Kimber seems to have mastered that at a lower price point than other manufacturers.

If you're looking for an "out of the box" 1911 then Kimber would be my first choice in the below $1200 range.

I've see some old Colt Gold Cups that were OK but I wouldn't pay for a new one or an unknown old one.

[gray wolf]

I will stand by my Springfield loaded and Springfield's customer service.
All I have done to mine is get rid of the ambi safety that I have no need for.

[Love Life]

Why, just last Sunday I had a man at the range explaining to me why his 1911 wasn't a Colt...lol.

Yeah, Kimber makes pretty good 1911. Most makers do for most part. Colt just does it as a side business in between gubmint' contracts.

[Uncle R.]

Aw crud...
Desire for new ponies fading...
fading
fading...

Uncle R.

[JWT]

I am very happy with my Springfield Armory. My friends Gold cup rattles when you shake it from loose slide fit. Pretty much every manufacturer has left Colt in the dust.

[Pb Burner]

As for the Kimbers, I've got a Gold Match(series 1), which I really like. It's a very nice accurate pistol. But...I got to shoot with a guy that had a Kimber Target 2, and it was the equal in all respects to my Gold Match. I saved for a long time for that GM, was kinda surprised, well, a little bummed, that the lower priced pistol matched my Match.

[Joni Lynn]

I've either owned, or fired most of these and would recommend the SA Range Officer. After that price range I'd look at Dan Wesson and then Les Baer. The RO is a nicely made gun for the money and is or was claimed by SA to be a no frills Trophy Match for a killer price. They shoot the same. SA also has the reputation for excellent custom service should it be required.
Best wishes.

[35remington]

I bought one and then another Series 70 Reproduction in stainless the in the last five years. Both have been excellent. A gunsmith of well known repute had fairly recently viewed the products of the larger volume makers and in his opinion the Colts were on average superior.

Sorry I can't join the "Colts are no good" daisy chain here as that has not been my experience, and the Colts have generally acknowledged to be improving to a very satisfying degree over those lowly 70's and 80's days.

Look them over before buying before taking anyone's word for it. I have, and I state what I've experienced.

[Jupiter7]

I've either owned, or fired most of these and would recommend the SA Range Officer. After that price range I'd look at Dan Wesson and then Les Baer. The RO is a nicely made gun for the money and is or was claimed by SA to be a no frills Trophy Match for a killer price. They shoot the same. SA also has the reputation for excellent custom service should it be required.
Best wishes.
Pretty much agree. I'd add STI in the mix after Springfield. I won't buy 1911's with FPS, so that rules out a lot of guns in the $700-1200 range. The Dan Wesson heritage model is a best in class buy imho.

[Thumbcocker]

Love my Sig. Doesn't have target sights tho.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I carried the Colt 1911 on duty for years. A local law enforcement agency in a city of 200,000 bought the Kimber because their testing favored the Kimber. Within a year all the Kimbers were turned back in by disappointed officers and the Kimber was removed from service.

A general rule is the more a model gets when it is mass produced the less satisfied the user will be as compared to custom work. When choosing a 1911 as a foundation for custom work, the Springfield Mil-Spec can't be beat. Then a Colt's Series 70 would be second to the Mil-Spec. A production line isn't producing custom quality 1911's anywhere. The manufacturers have decided to produce a product at a competitive price instead, that's why Les Baer's and Ed Brown's cost the way they do.

As much as I love Colt's we have to be realistic about expecting custom quality out of the box. I used Colt's on duty exclusively as a LEO and for the price, plus the minimal price of custom fitting a safety I found the Colt to be the best balance of price vs. serviceability. Of course the Les Barr and Ed Brown's are better. But I'd never trust a Kimber.

[Love Life]

They still need to give the thumb safety fitter a copy of the Kuhnhausen shop manual.

All I'm saying is that if a bottom dollar foreign job can have a correctly fitted thumb safety, then Colt should absolutely have a correctly fitted safety. The loose tolerances are fine as I don't mount a dot, and they hold well enough at 25 yds and beyond. To get better I'd need to fit a bushing, or hard fit a barrel, do some squeezing, a bit of hammering, etc.

I've held a bunch of Colts in my hands this year. I traveled quite a bit around Georgia and into Alabama to do so. Of the 50 plus new Colts I fondled, a poorly fitted thumb safety that was mushy in putting it on safe and very hard to take off safe was a very common trend. I haven't stopped buying Colts by a long shot, but a spade is a spade.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Live Life, you are right. Since I'm in communication with Colt on two (2) other matters right now, I'm going to pass that on to them. One of the matters I'm in communication with Colt about is thanking them for making such a wonderful product. Recently a mad man was criminally terrorizing my community. Colt firearms were deployed and it was a Colt that secured the safety of our citizens. The other matter is custom work I am having done.

i do not agree that Colt should be singled out for criticism when we are talking about problems with out of the box 1911's.

[bisleyfan41]

I love my Ruger SR1911. Shoots better than I can hold and I've had no issues at all here.
Looking for a target-sighted model? Go with the Springfield RO and never look back. Solid gun; great price to boot.

[tja6435]

My Ruger SR1911 is super tight all around. I fit a Novak's ambi safety and it's been a dream. You shouldn't over look these

[Love Life]

Live Life, you are right. Since I'm in communication with Colt on two (2) other matters right now, I'm going to pass that on to them. One of the matters I'm in communication with Colt about is thanking them for making such a wonderful product. Recently a mad man was criminally terrorizing my community. Colt firearms were deployed and it was a Colt that secured the safety of our citizens. The other matter is custom work I am having done.

i do not agree that Colt should be singled out for criticism when we are talking about problems with out of the box 1911's.

No, Colt should not be singled out. That I agree with. The issue I am speaking of though definitely needs to be rectified. Please do pass the information along. Colt's image is quite tarnished, and to fix it their guns need to have the parts fitted properly. Not bullseye, hardball, or custom fitted either. Just fitted correctly.

When you look in the case of 1911's and RIA and Springfield are much cheaper, but have properly fitted thumb safeties, it is no wonder people opt for a different brand. I'm a Colt nut so I get what I get, but other people don't think like that (rightly so!).

[osteodoc08]

Well, OP here. I'm typing this on my iPhone as I stand in line at all places, Cabelas, putting a Kimber Gold Match, series 1 (a 70 series) on layaway for $850, minus 10% because it has been sitting in the case so long. It is in all respects, perfect, with hardly no wear.

A barely used Kimber GM series 1 for $765. Gotta go buy a lotto ticket!

[Love Life]

Bring that bad boy on over to Albeeny when you get it out of jail.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I bought a Colt Wiley Clapp lightweight Commander a couple of months ago for about $1,000.00. It came with the 1918 thumb safety which did not need to be replaced, as I'm thinking the Series 70's thumb safeties are tight out of the box too. Only the ambidextrous thumb safeties are bad. Even the custom 1911 shops will say the ambidextrous safety if a source of problems. My Wiley Clapp Commander even came with checkering on the front strap so I walked into big savings getting this Colt. Checkering is very expensive.

I'll give Colt my opinion they ought to abandon the ambidextrous safety all together. I've had zero problems with this lightweight Commander .45 Wiley Clapp, just like I haven't had any problems with any of my other Colt 1911's except having to replace the ambidextrous thumb safety.

[Love Life]

It wasn't the ambi safeties that were the issue. I have a WCC and Series 70 repro. Both had poorly fit safeties as well. A wisk, wisk, wisk solved that problem.

[osteodoc08]

Bring that bad boy on over to Albeeny when you get it out of jail.

I'd love too. I don't get down there much anymore but will hit you up next time I'm gonna be down that way.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, OP here. I'm typing this on my iPhone as I stand in line at all places, Cabelas, putting a Kimber Gold Match, series 1 (a 70 series) on layaway for $850, minus 10% because it has been sitting in the case so long. It is in all respects, perfect, with hardly no wear.

A barely used Kimber GM series 1 for $765. Gotta go buy a lotto ticket!

Sounds like you did very well indeed.

[BCgunworks]

I haven't been happy with colt in a good while.....when one comes in for a barrel or other custom work.....I cringe.

[apen]

Lots of people are using range officers with a trigger job today at BE matches. I don't see ANY gold new gold cups or Kimbers.

[FergusonTO35]

It amazes me how a company that has both huge taxpayer contracts and products which people are pleading to buy and will pay absolutely stupid prices for still manages to go bankrupt multiple times. As long as Colt keeps getting big juicy contracts ordinary citizens will just get scraps because they really don't need us. I can totally see them jumping in bed with promoters of "smart guns" and similar nonsense to keep those contracts coming. Heck, Freedom Group is very intelligently run and in tune with the needs and desires of the shooting public compared to Colt.[smilie=s:

[c1skout]

I don't usually handle the new Colts at my local shop, but remembering this thread tonight I checked out 3 1911's from the display case and all 3 had safeties that felt no different to me than the ones on my Springfield or RIA guns. None of these had ambi safeties, one gun each in blue, stainless, and hard chrome. Now I need a Colt in 38 super and I'm blaming you guys!

[Love Life]

I don't usually handle the new Colts at my local shop, but remembering this thread tonight I checked out 3 1911's from the display case and all 3 had safeties that felt no different to me than the ones on my Springfield or RIA guns. None of these had ambi safeties, one gun each in blue, stainless, and hard chrome. Now I need a Colt in 38 super and I'm blaming you guys!

Good to hear! Did you check their serial numbers for year of production?

[c1skout]

No I didn't, these were all new but I guess they could be older stock from some distributer. The hard chrome (maybe Nickle) just got there within the last week and the other 2 have been there a few weeks at least.

[TXGunNut]

Well, OP here. I'm typing this on my iPhone as I stand in line at all places, Cabelas, putting a Kimber Gold Match, series 1 (a 70 series) on layaway for $850, minus 10% because it has been sitting in the case so long. It is in all respects, perfect, with hardly no wear.

A barely used Kimber GM series 1 for $765. Gotta go buy a lotto ticket!



You did well, good luck with security on the way out, lol. I'm not a Kimber fan but I'd be in on a deal like that, congrats. I share your frustration with Colt. There are very few out there, or so it seems. I was looking for a Colt when I found my Ruger SR1911. I'm happy with my Ruger but still looking for a good Colt LW Commander.

[Plate plinker]

Number 4

[osteodoc08]

You did well, good luck with security on the way out, lol. I'm not a Kimber fan but I'd be in on a deal like that, congrats. I share your frustration with Colt. There are very few out there, or so it seems. I was looking for a Colt when I found my Ruger SR1911. I'm happy with my Ruger but still looking for a good Colt LW Commander.


Once the background check complete and gun paid for they wrap it up in bubble wrap and put it in a makeshift box. Seal it with candy striped tape and out the door I go. Haven't had a moments trouble walking out with any gun at my Cabelas.

[Hickok]

My experience with Colt.

I always wanted a 1911 45 ACP. So, back in the 1970's I bought a new in the box Colt Series 70 Government Model 45ACP. I was really excited at first, until I put a few hundred rounds through the pistol. It needed a good break-in of a couple hundred rounds before it would feed reliably, and then only with round nose. OK, I can accept that, and I know to feed hp's the Government Model needs some work done.

This Colt wasn't extremely accurate, about 5 inch groups @ 25 yards no matter what ammo was used.

Yep, the thumb safety took a gorilla to make it work.

Then the front sight flew off into parts unknown, never to be seen again. So that had to be fixed.

Then the slide release broke off one day while shooting. Had to order a new one to fix the gun.

Now realize that the price on this Colt 1911 was not cheap, even back in 70's. Disgusted, I sold the pistol.

Later I bought a new Kimber 1911 "Royal" 45 ACP. It "ran" perfect right out of the box. It feeds any thing that will fit in the magazine, and it will consistently shoot 2 inch groups @ 25 yards when I do my part.

Thousands of rounds of ammo through the Kimber, and not one part failure.

Same thing with my Beretta Model 92 9mm. "Ran" perfect right out of the box, groups great, feeds all ammo, no parts failure.

No more "Colts" for me.

[Jpholla]

It's a free country and people have a right to like whatever they want, but based on what I've seen the past several years, Colt is a has-been just resting on their laurels. I think their economic status bears that out. I've seen countless people come into the store and go to the AR's and say to their friends, "Oooooohhhh...look......that one's a Colt!" as if it was the Holy Grail or something, when most of the surrounding AR's would have probably shot circles around it. Many people also came in asking for an AR and they specifically wanted a Colt, thought it was plain to see that they probably had never bought or even handled an AR-15 before. They just heard that "Colt" was the one to get. I recall one Colt AR that came in a couple years ago with the buffer tube (and buttstock) noticeably canted about 10 degrees! Those of you familiar with AR's probably recognize that the buffer tube is keyed in such a way as to prevent it from going on any way but straight. But Colt apparently had the skill to figure out how to do so. The wrench had also slipped off the aluminum castle nut at full torque and had torn all four corners off of it leaving the bare aluminum sticking out like a sore thumb on an otherwise all-black gun. There is no way the assembler could not have noticed. There is no way the person who put that gun in the box at the factory could not have noticed. But they sent it out anyway. Colt was once a great innovator in firearms, but sadly they have gone the way of so many other once-great companies. Rather than depending on good quality, service, and respect for the customer, they depend on nothing more than their name. BTW, someone bought that AR, and was perfectly glad to get it. After all, it was a "Colt."

[Love Life]

My experience with Colt.

I always wanted a 1911 45 ACP. So, back in the 1970's I bought a new in the box Colt Series 70 Government Model 45ACP. I was really excited at first, until I put a few hundred rounds through the pistol. It needed a good break-in of a couple hundred rounds before it would feed reliably, and then only with round nose. OK, I can accept that, and I know to feed hp's the Government Model needs some work done.

This Colt wasn't extremely accurate, about 5 inch groups @ 25 yards no matter what ammo was used.

Yep, the thumb safety took a gorilla to make it work.

Then the front sight flew off into parts unknown, never to be seen again. So that had to be fixed.

Then the slide release broke off one day while shooting. Had to order a new one to fix the gun.

Now realize that the price on this Colt 1911 was not cheap, even back in 70's. Disgusted, I sold the pistol.

Later I bought a new Kimber 1911 "Royal" 45 ACP. It "ran" perfect right out of the box. It feeds any thing that will fit in the magazine, and it will consistently shoot 2 inch groups @ 25 yards when I do my part.

Thousands of rounds of ammo through the Kimber, and not one part failure.

Same thing with my Beretta Model 92 9mm. "Ran" perfect right out of the box, groups great, feeds all ammo, no parts failure.

No more "Colts" for me.

My uncle has a Kimber Royal and has for quite a while. We had to stone the breechface to remove the build up of finish to get reliable function, but it has been 100% since then.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Hickok, get over it. In 1970 I probably hadn't fired my first .45. Since then I graduated from high school, and college and retired after a 30 year career. You had a bad experience, you need to get out more. I bought a brand new Ruger Blackhawk right out of the box it jammed up on me and I couldn't make it fire -twice. Should I post Rugers are bad based on my experience? I have purchased 46 handguns since 1973 and I shoot all the guns I buy. Why do you post knowledge about Colt's because one failed you in the 1970's? How did the front sight fly off the slide? The front sight is milled as one piece with the slide. Are you saying you bought a Gold Cup Seies 70? We can talk about the Gold Cup and all it's idocincrac specs but that's another subject. And the slide release broke off? I've seen lots of guns break. I've never even heard of a slide release break.

Jpholla, sounds like you work a gun counter. I worked for a law enforcement agency with over 30 AR's on duty. I ran the quals, our AR's never failed or jammed. They were Colts. We had a well known brand AR snap the bolt in half. The broken half stuck in the ejection port, but the Colt AR's all ran flawlessly.

Now I have to call BS on Colt's bankruptcy criticism by the pro Kimber crowd. Most companies that sign Gov't contracts go bankrupt. That's why Colt formed 2 companies, to protect the none Gov't contract work from the red tape associated with Gov't contracts. What Kimbers excuse? Declaring bankruptcy and defaulting leaving your creditors in the lurch, then forming another company and continuing in business under a new name? There's nothing unethical about Colts bankruptcy.

[historicfirearms]

Colt 1911 from the 1970s would have had a staked on front sight, not one piece milled as part of the slide. If they did a poor staking job it would be quite easy to loose the front sight while firing.

[Hickok]

Silver Jack I did get over it, I got a Kimber!:D

That Series 70 1911 would have been almost as good as my Kimber if I had sent it away to a 1911 gunsmith and put another $800-$1000 into it.:roll:

[Ramjet-SS]

I am huge fan of Springfield and they outstanding CS and make a product they stand behind that is well made reasonably priced and available.

I know several LEO that have Wilson custom 1911 that they carried after the break in period. The department allowed it and these guys absolutely love those guns and have tremendous confidence.

[Jpholla]

Hickok, get over it. In 1970 I probably hadn't fired my first .45. Since then I graduated from high school, and college and retired after a 30 year career. You had a bad experience, you need to get out more. I bought a brand new Ruger Blackhawk right out of the box it jammed up on me and I couldn't make it fire -twice. Should I post Rugers are bad based on my experience? I have purchased 46 handguns since 1973 and I shoot all the guns I buy. Why do you post knowledge about Colt's because one failed you in the 1970's? How did the front sight fly off the slide? The front sight is milled as one piece with the slide. Are you saying you bought a Gold Cup Seies 70? We can talk about the Gold Cup and all it's idocincrac specs but that's another subject. And the slide release broke off? I've seen lots of guns break. I've never even heard of a slide release break.

Jpholla, sounds like you work a gun counter. I worked for a law enforcement agency with over 30 AR's on duty. I ran the quals, our AR's never failed or jammed. They were Colts. We had a well known brand AR snap the bolt in half. The broken half stuck in the ejection port, but the Colt AR's all ran flawlessly.

Now I have to call BS on Colt's bankruptcy criticism by the pro Kimber crowd. Most companies that sign Gov't contracts go bankrupt. That's why Colt formed 2 companies, to protect the none Gov't contract work from the red tape associated with Gov't contracts. What Kimbers excuse? Declaring bankruptcy and defaulting leaving your creditors in the lurch, then forming another company and continuing in business under a new name? There's nothing unethical about Colts bankruptcy.

I never said all guns made by Colt were junk. I said I have seen things that should never have left the factory, especially on $1000+ guns. I'm not a "fanboi" of any company, and I don't want to start any arguments over calling others the same. I try to apply the same honesty by which I try to live my life to evaluating guns regardless of who made it. You said you worked (past tense) for a police department with over 30 AR's, but how long ago? How old were they? As I said, they used to be a much better company. I know a man that has been in the gun industry longer than I've been alive, and he's forgotten more than most of us will ever know. He used to be a major Colt fan, but last we talked he said he will not buy a Colt made after 2006. I agree with his assessment. Take it for what it's worth. If a person is having trouble finding a gun that is properly fitted made by a particular company, I think it may say something about that company. If it makes someone happy to buy a particular brand, I'm not going to stop them. I will say caveat emptor. Just make sure the barrel is fitted properly on a 1911.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I retired less than month ago. We bought our guns new. I carried Colts on duty.

[Hickok]

I retired less than month ago. We bought our guns new. I carried Colts on duty.Jack, did you happen to ever carry a Python? This is one Colt that I have always wanted to own, but the price has gotten out of my range since they were discontinued. I did get to try one a friend had, and it was butter smooth.

I would also grab up a Colt .38 snubnose if I had the chance.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Hickok, I never owned a Python. I carried the Ruger Sexurity-Six 6" stainless with Pachmyers for almost 10 years. There several Pythons carried by guys I worked with, several 6" Pythons and nickel was most popular. The motor guys favored nickel, I worked in a wet climate and motor officers guns were exposed to the climate more. I loved the Python but it was unnecessarily heavy for my favor, and of course the cost.
When revolvers went out and semi autos came in I thought the price of the Python might drop and I'd pick one up that never happened. I used the Captain's Trooper through the basic academy, most of us recruits were loaned that gun until we bought our own. That Trooper was a good gun but it was no Python.

[dubber123]

Colt 1911 from the 1970s would have had a staked on front sight, not one piece milled as part of the slide. If they did a poor staking job it would be quite easy to loose the front sight while firing.

And they did a poor job staking it on a good many of them. Even in my little dark corner of the back woods I have seen it happen twice. If you carry a 1911 with a staked on front sight, practice your point shooting. You may need it ;)

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Staked front sight? Let's talk about the deplorable Schwartz device Kimber uses, and the MIM barrel bushings which Kimber uses that actually do fail and do down the gun. That Schwartz device is fine if your gun goes from the box to the range to the safe but it has been know to peen and sheer off leaving a so called ready gun in the holster incapable of firing.