25-35 or 219 zipper

[andym79]

Hi guys I am getting on of my 30-30s win 94s re-barreled with a 26" Octagonal barrel. I have for a while been debating whether to get it re-barreled to 25-35 or 219 zipper.

Though a zipper doesn't really shout out Octagon barrel!

I shouldn't say it here but the 22cal of the zipper makes jacketed bullets affordable if I should want to.
However I think the mold selection in 25cal is much better.

Which would you guys go for, and please give as many reasons as possible!

[pietro]

.

I have no opinion on cartridge choice, but do know that the smaller the bore, the heavier that octagonal barrel's going to be.

.

[MT Gianni]

What do you want to do with it? I rested my back on a Grizzly Bear Howard Copenhaver shot at close range on an afternoon visit. He hated recoil so he always carried a 25/35 in his 40+ years of hunting and guiding around the Bob Marshall Wilderness.
22 Zipper is a good coyote round.

[andym79]

.

I have no opinion on cartridge choice, but do know that the smaller the bore, the heavier that octagonal barrel's going to be.

.

Yere my 30-30 octo is a lot heavier than the 38-55 octo, the 25-35 will be heavier still and the zipper would start to be a heavy rifle. For carrying miles through the bush :( but for target work and heat sink properties :-).

[andym79]

What do you want to do with it? I rested my back on a Grizzly Bear Howard Copenhaver shot at close range on an afternoon visit. He hated recoil so he always carried a 25/35 in his 40+ years of hunting and guiding around the Bob Marshall Wilderness.
22 Zipper is a good coyote round.

The 25-35 is probably a lot more versatile, but excludes cheap jacketed bullets should want to!

All of my centre fire rifles but the 223 mandate due to wallet constraints that the shot cast exclusively. The zipper would be my only lever which gave me a choice! The zipper however isn't really in keeping with the traditional octo 19th century barrel!

[bob208]

I have a 94 in 25-35 oct. barrel take down. it is not heavy at all. in fact it does not feel any heaver then the same model in .30-30.

[Idaho Mule]

25-35 is a great round, can use cast and jacketed just fine. Jacketed is fairly limited though, and not economical or easy to find. Hornady makes a very fine 117 gr. RN interlock bullet that is built just for the 25-35 and 25 Remington. Those bullets work quite well in my experience but they are sure hard to find. They don't sell them by the jillions so they only make a few in small runs. RCBS makes a couple of great moulds fit for the 25-35. The first choice for me is the 100 gr. FP GC and then there is the smaller 85 gr FP for the 25-20. I have both and they both cast great boolits. I think the Zipper might be easier to find bullets for, but things may be different where you are. JW

[andym79]

Which cartridge has the potential to be most accurate, assume both are loaded with pointed bullets (single loaded not from the magazine)?

[Bent Ramrod]

If you could get the .25-35 with the 10-inch twist it would better handle the 87-grain Remington jacketed flat points, as well as 100 and 117 grain cast boolits. Admittedly, I bought a bunch of 87-gr FPs several years back, but even then they seemed easier to get than the 117 gr RNSPs. They could be bought in bulk boxes, which the larger bullets definitely did not.

I have a Savage 99 that I had relined to this caliber and twist, and it seems to be much more tolerant of a wider range of bullet and boolit weights than the 9-inch barrel that was standard for the caliber that I have on another rifle. It still shoots the 117 grain jacketed soft point accurately enough for the size game that the 117 grain jacketed soft point is good for.

The Zipper, IMHO, is kind of a faux pas in the lever action. The breeching and sights are not good enough to take advantage of the accuracy inherent in the cartridge, unless a lot of tweaking is done on the gun. I think M.L. McPherson and Paco Kelly both went over such guns in that caliber and got them to shoot fairly well, but I didn't get the impression that they were 250 yd prairie dog guns even at that. The .25-35 with the 87-gr JFP should be good for small pests and coyotes as well as the Zipper, at the ranges you would shoot an iron sighted lever action.

[andym79]

1:10 twist you say, that would be my choice. The 1:8 factory offering was in my opinion too fast.

[ericp]

I would pick the 25-35. Yes, jacketed bullets are tough to find but just lay in a good quantity when they make another run and call it good. I worked up a load I like and only use them for game now. A few hundred will last a long time. Lots of good mold designs for the .25s and it is easy to make up a 25-20 duplication load. I like to keep the magazine full of full power jacketed loads and some cast loads in my pocket. If a bigger critter happens by just rack the gun and shoot. If I tree a squirrel or spy a bunny I just open the action most of the way until just before the lifter pops up and drop a cast load in the chamber. My cast loads have a short OAL and it is no problem to sneak them into the chamber. I view the Zipper as a varmint round and if you were thinking about rebarreling a 336 with easy scope mounting it would be a more difficult choice.

Eric

[lotech]

I've had at least five .219 Zippers (Krag action, Win. Hi-Walls, Remington rolling block, Remington-Hepburn). While a fine cartridge, consider the expense and trouble to form brass. I have never seen a need to anneal brass, but based on my experience, formed Zipper brass must be annealed if any case life is to be expected. I had best results case-forming using new Winchester .25-35 brass; don't know if that's still available. I used RCBS case-forming dies (not cheap). You may be able to get by without form dies though I never tried that approach.

I've had a couple of .25-35s ('94 Win. and 99 Savage). I did little work (cast or jacketed) with either, but brass should be very easy to form from .30-30 if you can't get Winchester .25-35 brass.

[square butte]

N.O.E molds is your friend when it comes to molds for cast bullets - Al has a pretty good selection of lighter weights on up to one that will come very close to duplicating the 117 grainer. The selection really is quite good for 25 cal molds - Gas check or plain base. Check em out.

[andym79]

Thanks guys, I guess the appeal of being to shot cheap jacketed bullets in a lever gun is the only think really pulling me to the 219. I can use cast for for target work in the 25-35 and just use the jacketed stuff for any hunting trip I guess. The 25-35 is more versatile. A range of 60-120 grains.

[andym79]

Hi does anyone use bullets like this in the 25-35?

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/25-calibre/257-100gc-double-cavity

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=1561

I think I would need to ask him to open up the mold by .002 though you would want them to drop at more like 259 than 257.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=1083

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=1579

Is this a reasonable choice for a magazine loaded bullet

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/25-calibre/258-87fngc-triple-cavity

Again open the mould up 0.001

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=1944

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=1242

Which of these bullets would be the best for single loading and pure potential accuracy, and which for a good magazine load projectile that still has good inherent accuracy potential?

[Good Cheer]

Use the Ideal 257325 in the '94.
Thanks to a castboolits gentleman have recently acquired a beautiful 257312.
Hornady jacketed are on the shelf... might open the boxes someday.

By the way, trying to turn 30-30's into 25-35's is a real booger.

[Good Cheer]

Another by the way, the 25-35 is a really seriously penetrating round.

[andym79]

I was under the impression that forming 25-35 brass from 30-30 wasn't too bad!

My plan was to go 30-30 to 7-30 to 25-35 good or bad plan?

[lotech]

Good Cheer- I've never tried to form .25-35 using .30-30 brass; assumed it would be a simple procedure. What problem did you encounter?

[clum553946]

Speer makes a nifty 75 gr jfp that's accurate & fun to shoot. I use Leverevolution under it. Also, I bought some brass from gunbroker. A little pricey, but it was available! Every once in a while, some show up in swap & sell, but I'm always late to the party to grab some! I wonder if Grumpa can form some? Graf & Sons has Sellier & Bellot 25-35 ammo for 20.99/20 rounds, another way to obtain some brass.

[MT Gianni]

Good Cheer- I've never tried to form .25-35 using .30-30 brass; assumed it would be a simple procedure. What problem did you encounter?
Interested as well. 7/30 waters is a single pass resize and fireform.

[ArcticGoose]

I have had both the 219 Zipper and the 25-35 in Winchester levers. I like both of them, but found the 25-35 more useful for me. I no longer have the Zipper.

[andym79]

Still haven't come any closer to making a decision! I guess the truth is I want both! But I can't so must pick 1.