I Wonder How This Will End?

[Phineas Bluster]

Deleted

[bubba.50]

he's some form of a minority so, he'll probably get it. even though they don't tend to be politically active he might as well get his voter ID card too while he's at it.

[Petrol & Powder]

He is standing on U.S. soil so he is subject to U.S. law. End of story.


You don't get to be special just because you want to be. The law aplies to all, not just the ones who accept the law.
Furthermore, the government is not restricting his right to own or possess a firearm - only regulating how a FFL may transfer a gun to him.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Most states will issue a photo i.d. for those without a drivers license he should be able to use that. Or jusy buy one private party...

[wv109323]

Amish people do not believe in personal photos. I believe the grounds is that a photo is a "graven Image". It is not a driver's license but a photo on a "photo I.D."

[Mica_Hiebert]

lets go ahead and sell illegal immigrants guns too...

[Powder Burn]

Don't have to sell them, our government gives them away.

[shooter93]

The Amish do buy guns here in Pa. all the time without a picture id. I have often questioned how they legally do it, I know of no religious exemption. Go to the tourist regions around Lancaster and they all are getting their pictures snapped by the tourists and don't hide their faces and a local photographer has made his living photographing them for newspapers, magazines and prints for sale....he may have a problem winning.

[nagantguy]

Well at least he's part of a minority that doesn't live on our dime. The ones that do seem to be able to do as they please including rape and murder and walk out of jail and into housing with cash assistance and a tax refund and health care. Watch for an atf raid at this Amish community, mean while the drug house 1t miles away with 40 gangstas in it round the clock with automatic weapons courtesy of uncle Sam will remain open for business.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Well at least he's part of a minority that doesn't live on our dime. The ones that do seem to be able to do as they please including rape and murder and walk out of jail and into housing with cash assistance and a tax refund and health care. Watch for an atf raid at this Amish community, mean while the drug house 1t miles away with 40 gangstas in it round the clock with automatic weapons courtesy of uncle Sam will remain open for business.

Plenty of this corruption going on within the amish too!

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm not real keen on carving out exceptions to the law for religious claims.

A Muslim female that insists on wearing a veil or burqa for her passport photo comes to mind.

I'm not picking on the Amish but I don't like one law some people and a special law for others.

[shooter93]

Oh yes...a huge amount of corruption in their community. Along with drug running, rape, arson and quite a few using the State Medicaid/Wicks cards etc. for medical needs.

[starmac]

Shouldn't be alaw anyway.

[Petrol & Powder]

Shouldn't be alaw anyway.

Well it is - so EVERYONE is subjected to it equally.

[country gent]

Here in Ohio a few years ago the Amish were fighting the hunter oarnge laws. Not sure how it finally ended. Thier religon is a very strict code of behaviour and whats allowed. Several times groups have csame here to raise barns for people. All hand tools the wives come along and cook for them. Some of the nicest well built barns in the area. They dont believe in tractors cars or motor powered equipment electric included. They work ground and travel by hoarse and buggy. There are no curtains on the windows. Thier beliefs are very important to them as are ours. Like I said theyy dont drive autos use tractors or combines but they may hire it for long trips or heavy work. WHy should we allow one community ( some have been getting special treatment for years others are learning) and not this group that is generally upstanding and respectable with an honor system they stand by.

[shooter93]

We shouldn't country gent. Once allowances are made for one group all other groups will want an allowance based on something they feel they can justify. It shouldn't be a law for sure but it is. I have to comply despite my religion and they don't? Neither of us should have to but we either over turn the law or if I have to comply then they should too. This is one of the real problems with straying from a Republic that was meant to me as free as possible. We change things for a few groups. Every group will justify their exemption.

[Uncle R.]

I am a member of the smallest minority group of all.
Total membership is one.
I call this minority "me."
I am constantly subjected to discriminatory behavior.
I am constantly forced to perform acts and suffer indignities that are against my moral code and my religious beliefs.

When do I get my check?

Uncle R.

[Petrol & Powder]

I have no quarrel with the Amish. They live their lives and I live mine. This is a great country and I'm proud that we can function together. A lot of people in a lot of countries cannot live together.

However, when you have rule by law, the law is superior. The law applies to all equally.
The Amish pay property taxes like everyone else. They put slow moving vehicle placards on their buggies because they operate those buggies on public highways and are therefore subject to traffic laws. If someone steals from them or trespasses on their land they are entitled to seek remedies in the courts just as any other citizen may. They are counted in the census, are allowed to vote and they may enter into contracts.
Religion does not allow you to side-step the sovereignty of the government but it also doesn't prevent you from accessing equal protection under the law.

The Amish living in this country are subject to the same laws as everyone else living in this country. They are not exempt because of their religion. They are not above the law because of their religion and they are not being singled out because of their religion.

[MtGun44]

Photo id is not required for 4473, or at least, used to not be required. The loophole was
"or is known to me" (IIRC) on the 4473 form. Most dealers go belt and suspenders and
demand a photo ID, even if they know you, not wanting BATFE to be jumping on them
in the future.

[Petrol & Powder]

Photo id is not required for 4473, or at least, used to not be required. The loophole was
"or is known to me" (IIRC) on the 4473 form. Most dealers go belt and suspenders and
demand a photo ID, even if they know you, not wanting BATFE to be jumping on them
in the future.

That certainly was true in the past. I've purchase guns from FFL's that knew me and they didn't require an ID but that was years ago. I don't know if some states require a photo ID or if ATF requires one now for an FFL to transfer a gun.

[JeffinNZ]

Presume he was only buying a flintlock......

[Petrol & Powder]

Presume he was only buying a flintlock......

/\ :wink: /\

[starmac]

Why worry if somebody is sueing to get what we ALL should have? I for one hope he wins, and it opens the doors for everybody else, if it isn't the law, I especially hope he wins.

[perotter]

Presume he was only buying a flintlock......

Back home in Wisconsin most of the Amish bought SKS's back when they were very cheap for use when deer hunting. Around here they are normally seen at the gun showing buying pump shotguns and auto loading .22 RF's.

[DCP]

Voter identification laws by state

As of April 2015, 32 states enforced voter identification (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification) requirements. A total of 17 states required voters to present photo identification while 15 accepted other forms of identification. In some states, a voter who is unable to present valid identification may still be permitted to vote without casting a provisional ballot. In others, such voters are required to cast provisional ballots.[1] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-ncslvoterID-1)[2] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-wapostID-2)
Valid forms of identification differ by state. Commonly accepted forms of identification include the following:[1] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-ncslvoterID-1)[2] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-wapostID-2)


a driver's license
a state-issued identification card
a military identification card

Generally speaking, proponents of voter identification requirements maintain that these laws are necessary in order to prevent voter fraud. Critics, meanwhile, contend that voter fraud is very rare and identification requirements "unduly restrict the right to vote."[1] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-ncslvoterID-1)[2] (http://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#cite_note-wapostID-2)

[dragon813gt]

That certainly was true in the past. I've purchase guns from FFL's that knew me and they didn't require an ID but that was years ago. I don't know if some states require a photo ID or if ATF requires one now for an FFL to transfer a gun.

Photo ID is required in PA to purchase a handgun. Your drivers license number is written on the form. I'm not going to delve into the illegal registration that this form is. I've always had to present my drivers license for all firearms purchases performed at a FFL. Even the local one that knows me.

I'm not buying this case. The Amish around here all drive cars when they're young. This means they got a drivers license at some point. Photo ID is absolutely required at this point. No religion should be able to side step this. So that means the Amish will have graven images taken of them and the Muslims will remove their burkas.

[Doggonekid]

As a FFL dealer I would rather not sell the one gun than to cross the ATF agent that audits my books. I think all driver license and state ID now has photos. There is a place on your 4473 that does require DL or ID from the state. It is what establishes your state of residence. The ATF will spend 2 or 3 days trying to find something you did wrong on your paperwork. I don't want to tell the agent that this person could not prove who he was nor could he prove his age so, I just sold him a gun anyway. No valid photo ID or DL no gun.