What tool to shape revolver grips besides a file?

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Guys,

Need advice. I'm using a bastard file to shape some new revolver grips, and it is taking days. About 4-6 hours to take a blank to a rough (but still too large) shape. That's from 1mm oversize and square-cut down to the gripframe and beveled, then finally to a roughed out grip profile.

It's too slow. But my rasp is WAY too aggressive and I will destroy the wood using that.

I don't have an oscillating spindle sander and the budget is not there for one right now. I have a random orbit sander but it doesn't get inside the grip easy, holding the workpiece is awkward, and in general the control for shaping is poor. My beltsander can be clamped to a table, but it is not a beltsander for "fine work" like a bench tool might be.

Any ideas on how I can rough out the general shape faster? Seems like I'm stuck between 60 grit (and equivalent) being too aggressive and 100 grit being questionable, and 200 grit (and equivalent) being too slow.

What tool do you suggest I use?

[chsparkman]

Do you have a dremel? It might help.

Your method is working, so stay with it. You have the grip screw hole drilled, so maybe try attaching your grip to a larger piece of wood that you can hold easier.

[gnoahhh]

I like a Nicholson #50 rasp for roughing out something like that, then switch to an assortment of different shaped files, and finish up with sandpaper backed with appropriately shaped backers. The #50 Nicholson is a sweetheart- I wouldn't be without one. The #49 is rougher (more aggressive), but I never felt the need for one of those.

[dragonrider]

You might take a look at these.
http://us.microplane.com/microplanewoodworking.aspx

[Whiterabbit]

Your method is working, so stay with it. You have the grip screw hole drilled, so maybe try attaching your grip to a larger piece of wood that you can hold easier.

Might try that. but can't stay with the bastard file.

I do have a nicholson rasp but it's too rough. It might be a #50 I will have to check it. If it's a #49, I'll go buy a #50 tomorrow.

Don't wanna stick with it because I have a new set coming down the pipe too. Maybe a third or fourth some day, but that's probably going to be the end of my grip making career. (thus not worth the oscillating spindle sander)

[williamwaco]

Use a rasp. Self cleaning if possible. You can use a power tool to get close but do not try to reach your final shape with a power tool. I would use a band saw to cut to your pencil line.

[williamwaco]

Use a rasp. Self cleaning if possible. You can use a power tool to get close but do not try to reach your final shape with a power tool.

PS: If you get good, your friends will drive you crazy wanting a "Good deal".

[Walter Laich]

You can mount a 1/2" or so spindle sander sandpaper roll in a drill press and use that as a 'cheap' spindle sander. I think they event make a kit like that.

Here's one example: https://www.woodstockint.com/Spindle-Sander-Drum-Kit-for-Drill-Press/D2677

[country gent]

The spindle with sanding drums works in a drill press okay, but finding fine enough drums can be an issue. One trick Ive used is to make a scrapper from a piece of heavy metal banding. Done right this does a great job finishing and when you get practiced you need very little sanding when done. I use 1 1/4 wide spring banding. a flat one can be made easily by cutting a short length. with a file cut one edge at 4*-5* relief angle and stone sharp. Wrap outside ends with tape to sve on cut fingers. a curved blade can be made either concave or conves as needed. In use hold 90* to piece and pull over surface peeling a fine controlled shaving. Rough saw grips, rough in with rasp then work in with the scrapper. Properly sharpened and used correctly you get a glass smoopth surface. Like a plane they cut better "with" the grain. All a file is is a multi toothed scraper, the scraper does a very nice fine job. I have used then on wood horn bone plastics and other materials. With the shallow relief angle they dont bite or grab into the work. They also tend to cut the grain and not tear it. The big thing is getting it edge smooth and sharp.

[Whiterabbit]

fine is not an issue, rough is; without gouging the grip panels up beyond belief. My bastard files leave a decent surface, and hand sanding cleans up the rest.

[gnoahhh]

Another trick is to take and drop a piece of window glass on the floor and scoop up and save the pieces. Odd curves amongst the shards can often be put to use as one-time use scrapers for complex curves.

[jcren]

A sharp cabinet scraper will remove wood fairly quickly and leave a smooth finish.

[Mk42gunner]

A good spokeshave will speed up removal of wood on external radii, they tend to cost $25 on up in antique stores. My Stanley #53 can leave a fairly smooth finish needing little final sanding.

Or you could just buy a rougher file/ smoother rasp. Sometimes just going to a larger file will get you to the needed coarseness of teeth.

Robert

[pietro]

.


I've been (successfully) roughing out revolver grips free-handed, with a disc sander installed in my (power) hand drill.

The last bits (for me) are the files that have one flat face & one convex face, then hand-sanding in various grades.


.

[duckey]

Files, once you get close go to a smoother less aggressive file.

[LAGS]

I use a Vulcanite Half Round Tapered file that I got from Brownell's #360-313-841AH
It has double ends one is Coarse, and one is Fine, and is perfect for shaping grips and stocks.
It has cutting surfaces on all four sides, and is not aggressive like a rasp, and cuts better than using a Coarse Bastard file made for Metal.
These files are Made for wood and softer materials.
Check them out, and I think you will agree.

[Wolfer]

I use a Dremel with a burr to get close. Then 100 grit wrapped around a file to get closer. The last I just use sandpaper.
In the old days I roughed them in with a pocket knife.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

For general gunstock work I am a firm believer in cutting tools and scrapers. A spokeshave is good, and you can get them with the bed convex in a fore and aft direction, and either concave or convex left to right. The trouble with pistol grips though, and especially revolvers, is that the direction of the grain changes, relative to the surface being cut, within an inch or less. Most of these tools are liable to dig up the grain, and if it happens, it will always happen at the worst time and place. I would go for a combination of really sharp knives and abrasives or files of one sort or another. The best tool for cutting out the blanks is a coping saw.

I agree, most wood rasps are too coarse for this work, and you are liable to misjudge how much further work with something else will remove the torn grooves they make. My grandfather's ex-army hoof rasp, which he took to Macedonia and the other Georgia in the First World War, was better, so an equine supplies dealer might be the place to look. A really coarse metal file might be fine, but never use it on steel, as it would have to stay extremely sharp. A blunt one will crush the edges of the pores in the wood, and they will rise up again later. This Japanese rasp is expensive but looks like the perfect compromise. It will probably be cheaper if you find it in the US. It would be especially good if it has a concave side with teeth, but I don't know that.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180799764018?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

The Dremel tool with its little sanding sleeves is usable (the stones will clog), but you will get more controllable results with the rubber arbors and short sanding sleeves of from about ¾in. to 1½in. diameter. eBay is full of them, and they are much cheaper than the long sleeves for spindle sanders, which offer no advantage for this kind of work. You can use them in a bench or hand electric drill. The same applies to tungsten carbide burrs, which I have found very good on horn.

You can also use a strip of coarse abrasive paper for shaping by hand, glued to a strip of wood or metal, rigid or flexible to taste.

[fryboy]

The rough file is ummm as the name suggest for roughing it close ,but yeah it can take a bit especially if you have a dull/clogged one, I use a 4 in 1 hand file so much it isn't funny and often one I think cuts decent doesn't when compared to a new one ,once roughed out it is sandpaper in progressively finer grits ,you can use about anything ( such as tha 4 in 1 ) for a sanding block,broken broomstick is awesome, carving and especially finishing wood is a labor of love and an object lesson in patience hang in there and later when done the journey will be forgotten by the shine of the finished product

[deepwater]

I use a "4-in-hand rasp/file". (Also known as a "shoe rasp"). It is 8" long and has both half round and flat, rasp and smooth surfaces. The short length and ability to change shapes just by turning over in your hand makes for quick work. Finish up with 80 grit and 120 grit sand paper. Then as fine of paper as you want to go. For inside radius work, wood dowels of various diameters (1/2" - 3/4") wrapped with sand paper. Work must be clamped so you can use 2 hands, if necessary, with the 4-in-hand so that energy goes into removing wood, not holding on.

A new sharp tool is the way to go. Bent, rolled over teeth and rust ruin a file. The 4-in-hand is less than 1/2 the price of the bigger rasps, and you essentially are getting 2.

The large rasps can definitely removed wood because each stroke is long and you have good grip with 2 hands. Use a good file handle on the file.Again, clamped the work-piece.

On a limited budget, the 4-in-hand is the least expensive option. All the above posters comments with hand tools will work.


deepwater

[Petrol & Powder]

Trained pet beaver ?

Well disciplined termites ?

[Whiterabbit]

Thanks guys.

Next question: How do you know you are done? Obviously there is the "when it feels right in my hand" test, but is there a more objective method to determine the proper shape?

I ask because during test firing (with a different gripframe) the recoil was unexpectedly massive. I don;t want to use something that subjectively feels right when I am in my garage in the cold at night without the gun attached just to find out later at the range that it's hard to hold on to when shooting.

[gnoahhh]

Do you have the factory grips? Did they work for you? If so, whittle the new ones to match them. If not, apply bondo or something to the old grips and shape them until they look right, feel right, and work right when shooting it. Then finish shaping the new ones to match them.

That brings to mind another method I sometimes use when shaping compound curves- a small razor sharp carving gouge. Chip away at the work until close and then finish up with abrasives.

[Whiterabbit]

I have no factory grips. only plowhandle grips, I do not believe they will be comparable in this application.

[NavyVet1959]

Angle grinder?

:)

3D router duplicator?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNMUU0VeRR0

Or a homemade one using a dremel tool?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Dremel-CarverDuplicator-like-a-Human-Power-CNC-Ro/

If you don't have a set of grips that you already like and want to duplicate, perhaps make a pattern from some material that would be easy to shape. I could see possibly making the pattern from modeling clay, having it fired in a kiln, and then using that as the pattern for the wood. Or maybe start with a soft wood for the pattern that would be easy to cut down like balsa?

[waksupi]

I use a Vulcanite Half Round Tapered file that I got from Brownell's #360-313-841AH
It has double ends one is Coarse, and one is Fine, and is perfect for shaping grips and stocks.
It has cutting surfaces on all four sides, and is not aggressive like a rasp, and cuts better than using a Coarse Bastard file made for Metal.
These files are Made for wood and softer materials.
Check them out, and I think you will agree.


Those are definitely a standard in my shop, I would hate to have to shape a gun stock without one.

[LAGS]

@ waksupi
I have had mine for ten years now.
I cant live without it either for shaping Wood or even bedding material.
The shape is also so universal.
It cuts inside radius, outside radius and is great for opening up th mag wells on rifles.
The tapered ends gets into tight areas, and you have 4 sides with two grits to choose from.
BTW.
Mine is still sharp and is still cutting good, and I use it almost Daily, so they do last.

[MtGun44]

Just looked up that file.......$46 for a file is an eye-waterer!

[waksupi]

Just looked up that file.......$46 for a file is an eye-waterer!

Price out #49 and #50 cabinet makers rasps. All part of the what I consider required arsenal. Usually around $60 each. You pay good money for good tools. Thank heaven for Bogg's Resharpening service! I probably had mine sharpened at around gun #40 or 50, and keep a spare on hand to use while that one is out being sharpened, and then cycled through again. I like to have duplicates of the three mentioned rasps on hand. Resharpening is cheap, they come back sharper than new, and if you only use them on wood, chances are they will last more than a lifetime.

[Col4570]

I have been using a Hacksaw Blade as follows,Run about 4" of the back along your grinder,Tape each side of it for handles.It will take of wood smoothly and quick.When down to size finish with a File followed by sandpaper.Hold the blade at a slight angle and it will cut like billyho.You can draw towards you or away from you depending how the Grain goes.The tool is flexible and will to a certain extent flex to the contours.http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/RebarreledFlintlock09012014001.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/RebarreledFlintlock09012014001.jpg.html)

[Col4570]

I have been using a Hacksaw Blade as follows,Run about 4" of the back along your grinder,Tape each side of it for handles.It will take of wood smoothly and quick.When down to size finish with a File followed by sandpaper.Hold the blade at a slight angle and it will cut like billyho.You can draw towards you or away from you depending how the Grain goes.The tool is flexible and will to a certain extent flex to the contours.http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/RebarreledFlintlock09012014001.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/RebarreledFlintlock09012014001.jpg.html)
Sorry it somehow got duplicated.

[Greg S]

Wakisupi, care to provide a file sharpening link, inquiring minds want to know. Nothing cuts like a new checkering file. But good wood files are spendy and I'd like to get more mileage from mine. Tia, G.

Nevermind. I found them. I need to comprehend while surfing.

[gnoahhh]

That Nicholson rasp I referred to earlier has been going strong for 17 years now. I certainly agree with the concept of buying only quality tools.

Another technique I often employ is to yank the iron out of a plane and use it as a handheld scraper.

[AggieEE]

A lot of the burs that Dremel sells are on the small side. Talk to your dentist to see if he will let you look at a burr catalog. They will be 3/32" shanks and you're looking for something about 1/4" in dia and about 3/8" long. Also, check some of the jewelry supply stores. Rio Grande, Stellar, SEP Tools are a few that come to mind. If you are serious about doing this buy carbide burrs they last much longer than HSS. If you want to be a little more aggressive look for the burs labeled alumicut burs. The other burrs are single and double cut like a file the alumicut burrs are more like milling tools. Just lightly stroke the wood going against the rotation of the tool the wood just flows off. Finish off with a sanding drum then hand sand to finish. On sander bands look for the ones that say resin bond not glue bond the resin coats the grains so they stay put and not go away after 10 secs. BTW the resin bonds are good for rough finishing soft metals and iron. Hardened/ tempered steel is slow going.

[bangerjim]

The order that works for me for 3D carving/shaping in wood:

16" bandsaw for roughing it out
6" horizontal belt sander for rough shaping
Oscillating spindle sander for fine shaping
Detail sander for detailing curves and shape
Hand sanding to desired finish
Set of Swedish steel hand scrapers for final burnishing

Takes a block of wood down to where I want it in a matter of minutes.....not hours!

No rasps or files here!

banger

[Ballistics in Scotland]

152176

I once made a fast-acting but smooth cutting wood file, now long since cannibalized unfortunately, when I bought a packet of ten twelve-inch hacksaw blades. I just checked that they all had their teeth pointing in the same direction, and bolted them together with bolts through the holes at each end. You could even make it curved by bolting only one end and securing the other together with tape or epoxy. You can't generate any heat to speak of in filing wood by hand, so the cheapest are as good as high speed steel.

To digress a bit, I also ground away the wavy teeth of a hacksaw blade on a belt sander. My intention was to use it for slotting screw-heads, but I also used it to make V-springs, to get a dead straight cut without weakening unevenness. The head of department in the college where I worked thought I had sneaked in a secret slitting saw to use on his lathe.

[michaelcj]

I have a set of handstiched, French made, cabinet makers rasps that I use in my shop. Expensive yes, and to buy for just one handgrip project would make no financial sense at all.
Available in several grades of "coarseness/shapes " I use them extensively on a variety of projects.
If you have any woodworking friends, who have the "right" tools on hand, it would be worth asking for some time in their shop…. Bottle of good scotch in trade?
There is nothing as good as having the right tool(s) of good quality on hand when you need them.

[M-Tecs]

I purchased a set of carbide grit files about forty years ago. They are still going strong. Very rapid material removal and they cut both directions on the stroke.

The new 49's & 50's are now made in Brazil and they are not the same quality as the old ones.

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/181

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/nicholson_rasps.htm

[waksupi]

http://www.rockler.com/japanese-saw-rasp

I find these handy for some tasks.

[Blackwater]

The best gunsmith I've ever known was Ackley trained, and had amazing talent with both wood and metal, but most especially with wood. He told me something one day that's stuck with me for a long time. He said Ackley told them to do a certain job, like take a chunk of round metal and make it into a 1" cube. They'd be graded on their accuracy in measurements and squareness. When asked how to do it, or what tools to use, he always said, "that doesn't matter. What matters, whatever you use, is that you remove the right amount in the right places, and no more." That's always struck me as very sage advice, especially to those of us who have to make do with what we have on hand. The right tools speed things up sometimes, but even then, it takes care to use them skillfully, and there's always that matter of judgement about what to remove and how much and where that makes the final product what it is.

As to when to quit, I asked that same 'smith the same question, and he just smiled a wry grin, and said, "You just get to a point where you don't see much else you can do, so you stop." That, and getting it to "feel right," are about the only real "rules" there are. When doing work for someone else, you have to look at their hand size and length of fingers to get in the ballpark of where you think they'll feel right for that person, and then, it's good to remember that old adage that it's easy to remove more wood or metal, but danged impossible to put it back.

In short, it's always been (and likely always will be) a matter of plain, old fashioned judgment, and the guys who are best at that get the most kudos. Us duffers have to usually just go slow, test often, and keep going until we get to a place where it's right, or either we start all over again with a new chunk of wood. And judgment is always acquired through experience, so it's good to start off with pieces of old and broken gunstocks that you can pick up for practically (and sometimes literally) nothing. Your skills and judgment should develop pretty quickly, if you have talent.

Mostly, it's a matter of some degree of patience and determination and just noticing all the little things involved, and reacting to them appropriately. Some of that can be learned reading, and some only through experience, and that includes your screwups. Nobody bats 1000 when it comes to making stuff just so, but if you go slow initially, and try often, you should do well enough at the very least to be easily usable, and it'll be your learning experience that'll keep you getting better and better at it. It's that way for almost all crafts.

[Bazoo]

For general shaping, A drill mounted rubber sanding drum would work well. I get most of my sanding supplies from supergrit/ redhill corporation. You can buy small quantities if you need to. As to when to stop, it will tell you when, if you listen.

[labradigger1]

Vintage curved and flat spokeshaves, rasps, belt sanders at the roller, files, scrapers, pocket and carving knives.
Going with the grain will almost certainly reduce tear out.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have been using a Hacksaw Blade as follows,Run about 4" of the back along your grinder,Tape each side of it for handles.It will take of wood smoothly and quick.When down to size finish with a File followed by sandpaper.Hold the blade at a slight angle and it will cut like billyho.You can draw towards you or away from you depending how the Grain goes.The tool is flexible and will to a certain extent flex to the contours.

We have a good point above. The standard way of sharpening a simple sheet cabinet scraper, which is just a sort of steel postcard, is to file it to a right-angled edge, and then tap it with a hard steel rod until it is very slightly T-shaped in section.But you an do just as well by sharpening it on a grinder or belt sander, which creates a tiny burr you for once don't want to get rid of.

Do it this way and you can use a harder steel, on which the old method wouldn't work. A broken machine-hacksaw blade in high speed steel would be good.

[Whiterabbit]

Thanks guys. Your advice all helped.

(pic is before 2000-grit sanding and hand buffing, if you can see the orangepeel)

[John 242]

Mostly, it's a matter of some degree of patience and determination and just noticing all the little things involved, and reacting to them appropriately. Some of that can be learned reading, and some only through experience, and that includes your screwups. Nobody bats 1000 when it comes to making stuff just so, but if you go slow initially, and try often, you should do well enough at the very least to be easily usable, and it'll be your learning experience that'll keep you getting better and better at it. It's that way for almost all crafts.

Outstanding post!

[JHeath]

Waksupi mentioned something akin to this.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/Product/151297/9-Shinto-Saw-Rasp.aspx

This one is has both fine and coarse sides and is a little smaller.

These are great shaping tools, fast and smooth and gentler on the wood. I have the 11" and use it constantly to radius corners, break sharp edges, and profile anything wood.

[huntrick64]

Nicholson #49 and #50 as previously stated and a sandvik / Bahco cabinet scraper properly prepared. I haven't made ANY gunstocks from scratch, but have modified several with these tools. What I have made though is approximately 150 longbows out of Osage Orange with these tools. Some of that wood was seasoned over 50 years. I have had to re-work the cabinet scrapers every few bows, but have never had to do anything to the Nicholson rasps. Dean Torges offers a custom made rasp with the #49 on one side and #50 on the other. I like having both files though because sometimes you need flat, and sometimes you need convex in both tooth configurations. I kick myself because, a few years ago at our OJAM event, the club was selling #49 and #50 rasps for $35 each! Why didn't I buy extras then??? Can't really answer that without calling myself names.

Invest in the 49 and 50, protect them during use and during storage, clean them before you put them up, and DON'T loan them to anyone.