Passed on a CVA Hawken today...

[waarp8nt]

I was at a local gun show and one of my favorite dealers had a CVA Hawken.

It honestly looked sharp; Hardware was brown, thimbles were octagon, nose cap was silver not brass, lock was small, drum style w/nipple for ignition, barrel was brown with black powder warning, but no country of origin.

Dealer was asking $125 cash. I just don't know much about the CVA Hawken. It did not say Italy or Spain....does that mean USA made? Anyone have any more info on the CVA Hawken?

[mooman76]

Sorry but it sounds like you passed on a CVA Mountain rifle. Best gun CVA ever sold. Was the nosecap also flat on the end instead of rounded?

[waarp8nt]

Yes it was flat. Were they USA made? Might go back tomorrow and buy it. Just lacked enough info to trust my instinct.

[bubba.50]

with the brown hardware, pewter nosecap and octagon thimbles I agree on the mountain rifle opinion. the octagon thimbles were found on the earliest mountain rifles. some claim the no markin's signifies U.S. made but much like T/C's nobody really knows for sure. you can ask 50 people & get 49 different opinions. for $125.00 I believe i'd hafta go back to the show tomorrow.

[JonnyReb]

I'd snatch that one up soon as the show opens tomorrow.

[waarp8nt]

Thanks Gents.....I am setting the alarm clock now. Hopefully it is still there. He is the same dealer I got the T/C Grey Hawk for $75

[fouronesix]

Sounds like a Mountain Rifle to me also. Take a drop in bore light and a cleaning rod with proper jag and patch. Look at bore and "feel" the bore. If Spain or Italy made then I'd think there should be a proof mark on the barrel somewhere. Messed with a couple of those back in the mid-late 70s. IIRC- they were not USA made and the bores were a little roughish and the locks were iffy. But hey- just my opinion.

[swamp]

I had a .58 CVA a long time ago. Was very nice. Regretted selling it. The replacement had a undersize bore. Check it carefully.
swamp

[bubba.50]

worst-case scenario, if the barrel is total **** you can get a replacement from Deer Creek Products for $115.00 and still have less in it than these guns usually go for.

[Fly]

Ya & I got one just like that when it was new. Now the news that will make you sit. That
barrel you got on that rifle is a Dougless. They did not emboss all that other. One hell of a shooter.

Fly

[bubba.50]

Boy Howdy! if ya get the **** treatment for what I wrote i'd hate to see what'd happen if ya cussed :veryconfu.

[Fly]

Does it look like this. Mine I refinished stock & rust blued the steel.
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i384/Fly61/DSCN0572.jpg (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/Fly61/media/DSCN0572.jpg.html)

Fly

[azrednek]

I can't speak for the Hawkin model but my Italian 50 cal CVA, model unknown is remarkably accurate. Assembled from a kit about 35+ years ago. The only things I don't like is the fragile brass front blade and the low quality of the original ram rod. In my 20's about 50% of the time I could hit a 100 yard bullseye from a standing position. Bench rested I rarely missed it. When the shot string started wondering. A couple passes with a worn 20 ga brush put it back on track. I shot round balls using plastic wads and 75-100grs of black powder. Home cast mini-ball shot to shot accuracy was not as good but well within minute of deer shooting about six inches lower at 100 yards.

Now if your gun show strategy and luck is similar to mine. A few times I left without the lucky find, gone home, changed mind, returning later or the following day. Only to find it gone. So keep your fingers crossed. Hopefully it will still be there but for only a buck and a quarter. Unless there is plenty of competition you may find it gone.

[slumlord44]

If it has two barrel keys it is a Mountain Rifle. Good deal even if it is a Hawken. Great deal if it is a Mountain Rifle. I have both and both are great shooters.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

my cva hawkens that i rebuild will sell in the $400 range, so $125 is a steal. A mountain rifle is even better. Very sleek rifles. I have a kit USA made mtn rifle in the corner still needing to be built. Curly maple stock and everything.

[mooman76]

Even if the barrel doesn't say USA they were still really good shooters. Easily worth 2-3 times the price.

[johnson1942]

have to jump in on this, the mountain rifles were cva parts except for the barrel, that is american made and made by the old deer island co. before he retired. it is 1/60 twist in 50 caL and will take the eye out of a snake at 100 yards. the two i built from a kit took deer and antelope at 125 and 150 yards with out diff. every fifty cal barrel ive made for round ball since i had those guns have been a 1-60 twist. i taked to him by phone about that twist and he did a lot of testing and found that twist was the easiest to work up a load on and had no off days, a real constant good shooter.my friend a neighbor talked me into sell them to him and they hang on the wall in his liveing room now. also made one as a gift to a minister we had years ago. wish they still made the kit as the same as they did years ago. i believe a were constructed kit into a rifle to day ould be easily worth 700 dollars or more. also the stock was made out of hard rock plain maple. two of my guns turned out honey colored maple and the other one darker maple. i also cryo treated the barrels and that really made them easier to load and they drive nails as to accracy. if i saw a deal like that around here needing it or not i would get it and make as brand new and sell or keep it just to have a round ball gun aound. thats a find and a 1/2 ,hope you can latch on to it.

[fouronesix]

Who knows the different suppliers that CVA used for the various parts/models throughout the years. I guarantee a lot if not most of their stuff is/was imported (much from Spain and Italy) and some of it really not of the highest quality. After reading through this thread and if I didn't know better, I'd say the "factory" CVA Mountain Rifle referenced in the OP was one the finest American made factory muzzleloaders ever created- worth every bit of $400-700+. Good gravy!

waarp8nt, If all the hype about this gun is true, you oughta just buy it for 125, put it on swap n sell and easily double or triple your money- no sweat ;)

[oldracer]

I have 3 CVA Hawken rifles also and as far as I know they are all in the first batch that were put together when CVA was starting up. One is a very light weight "mountain" rifle, 50 caliber with a bunch of engraving on it, even the screw heads are done and it has no serial number on it. Another is a standard length 50 caliber again with a bunch of extra engraving and no serial number. The last one is a standard length 50 caliber and the barrel is numbered 000099, has a very fancy poured nose cap and again lots of engraving. The builder of these made another one just like it with barrel 000100 for the owner of the company so the various parts could be tested to see what worked and did not. All 3 are amazingly accurate and I have won quite a few medals in the year and a half since I got them!

[waarp8nt]

When I got to the show this morning it was already tucked under the table in a gun case...at that point I was heartbroken as I knew I missed out. I did stick around and ask the dealer...he said it got more attention than the modern made stuff.

I agree it was the mountain rifle....along with everything else it also had the double barrel keys.

I do not often hesitate...this time I did and it cost me a nice rifle at a plenty fair price. As always the best lesson learned is one learned the hard way.

[Fly]

Well $700 sounds like a lot to me. I love mine & it is a great shooter. But like the post above, I think
some of this embellishment goes a little too far. But If you can buy it for $125 do it. I will give you
$200 if it is what you say & pay shipping.

$75 for doing nothing, just PM me. Fly

[azrednek]

I do not often hesitate...this time I did and it cost me a nice rifle at a plenty fair price. As always the best lesson learned is one learned the hard way.

Guess you've joined the so-called, The One That Got Away Club!! Don't know if its your first but chances are good there will be more in the future. Bet there are plenty on this board that can tell a tale of letting one (or a few) they let get away. Only to regret it the following day. I can honestly say "been there and done that".

With my 20/20 hindsight I could be filthy rich on guns alone. I feel like kicking myself thinking back when my shooting buds tried to persuade me into Class Three full autos. My priorities at the time were making my truck faster, better looking and my next feminine conquest. Told one friend about 77 or 78 he was crazy paying almost a thousand for a Thompson. At the time they were going for 500-750. My friend passed away but his son sold it for $45,000.

[Newtire]

Boy Howdy! if ya get the **** treatment for what I wrote i'd hate to see what'd happen if ya cussed :veryconfu.I wrote c-r-u-d and got censored. People like these are the reason I quit going to Sunday school!

[bubba.50]

I wrote c-r-u-d and got censored. People like these are the reason I quit going to Sunday school!


yeh, my "offensive" word was c-r-a-p. I know this is a family friendly website & I'm good with that. but as Charlie Brown would say : "GOOD GRIEF!!!"

[Maven]

While I'm not going to use that particular word, you (plural) may want to look at this, http://www.snopes.com/business/names/crapper.asp, or google "Inventor of the flush toilet" and see what Wikipedia has to say about that word.

[fouronesix]

When I got to the show this morning it was already tucked under the table in a gun case...at that point I was heartbroken as I knew I missed out. I did stick around and ask the dealer...he said it got more attention than the modern made stuff.

I agree it was the mountain rifle....along with everything else it also had the double barrel keys.

I do not often hesitate...this time I did and it cost me a nice rifle at a plenty fair price. As always the best lesson learned is one learned the hard way.

:) Trust me, no reason to be heartbroken. The 125 is about what it's worth- just consider it a wash and most definitely not a lost opportunity at a "deal". You need experience. You need to look at some (being kind here) "inexpensive" stuff along side some good stuff- either repros or originals. Look closely at the quality and how they are put together. For barrels look into the bores with a scope or a drop in bore light. Remove the locks to inspect. Compare a quality lock with a foreign made cheap one. You don't have to buy anything to do the comparisons- just ask and look around.

[dondiego]

I have passed up all CVA's for many years with no regrets!

[Newtire]

Well $700 sounds like a lot to me. I love mine & it is a great shooter. But like the post above, I think
some of this embellishment goes a little too far. But If you can buy it for $125 do it. I will give you
$200 if it is what you say & pay shipping.

$75 for doing nothing, just PM me. FlyWow! If you really think you'd give $700 for it, I'lI take a mere $500 for my .58 mtn. rifle. At those prices, I should be able to get $50 for my vintage .58 Lee spherical mould.??

[nekshot]

junk CVA's have provided me with hours of enjoyment simply using the parts to make "something" thats shootable!

[swathdiver]

I wrote c-r-u-d and got censored. People like these are the reason I quit going to Sunday school!

Repent ye!

Evil communications corrupt good manners. My children view these pages with me sometimes and I appreciate the attempts to keep the language at a high level. There was a time when I used the worst word 5 ways in each sentence, until I heard the call. The days are so much nicer now not having to hear or read that stuff anymore.

As for CVA rifles, plenty have gotten away and plenty now bring joy to the children and I. Love those Frontier and Mountain Rifles but looking forward to acquiring some fowlers for small game to complement the doubles.

[bubba.50]

anyone who thinks a CVA Mountain Rifle is a piece of junk has obviously never shot one. also, anyone who thinks they're not worth more than $125.00 has obviously never tried to buy one. while I agree they're nowhere near bein' worth the 700 someone mentioned, on gunbroker they routinely SELL in the $250.00 to $350.00 range with the ones that are USA marked goin' for $400.00 or more dependin' on condition.

[Newtire]

Repent ye!

Evil communications corrupt good manners. My children view these pages with me sometimes and I appreciate the attempts to keep the language at a high level. There was a time when I used the worst word 5 ways in each sentence, until I heard the call. The days are so much nicer now not having to hear or read that stuff anymore.

Pu-leeeze!! Giveth me a break oh holy one!

[fouronesix]

anyone who thinks a CVA Mountain Rifle is a piece of junk has obviously never shot one. also, anyone who thinks they're not worth more than $125.00 has obviously never tried to buy one. while I agree they're nowhere near bein' worth the 700 someone mentioned, on gunbroker they routinely SELL in the $250.00 to $350.00 range with the ones that are USA marked goin' for $400.00 or more dependin' on condition.

Whatever you all think- makes no difference to me. I've owned two of the CVA Mountain Rifles from the late 70s. Both new. One I built from a kit and one was factory. Both were imports (Spain IIRC). Both had horrendously rough bores- with heavy tool chatter marks from breech to muzzle. And the locks/triggers on both were pretty junky.

At a distance they have a kind of eye appeal (aka lipstick on a ___). After all they have browned iron furniture, a white metal of some kind nose cap and ….. drum roll….. two barrel wedges! Probably an intentional, subtle hint at being somehow similar to a real Hawken :).

There are any number of muzzleloaders that shoot fine or can be made to shoot. But to call some of them high quality is a real stretch….. IMO

[swathdiver]

Pu-leeeze!! Giveth me a break oh holy one!

A gentleman should always consider his language as if young children are around; in regards to this and the other BP forums, there are young ladies reading these pages.


Whatever you all think- makes no difference to me. I've owned two of the CVA Mountain Rifles from the late 70s. Both new. One I built from a kit and one was factory. Both were imports (Spain IIRC). Both had horrendously rough bores- with heavy tool chatter marks from breech to muzzle. And the locks/triggers on both were pretty junky.

At a distance they have a kind of eye appeal (aka lipstick on a ___). After all they have browned iron furniture, a white metal of some kind nose cap and ….. drum roll….. two barrel wedges! Probably an intentional, subtle hint at being somehow similar to a real Hawken :).

There are any number of muzzleloaders that shoot fine or can be made to shoot. But to call some of them high quality is a real stretch….. IMO

The CVA MR is a copy of an actual rifle and as far as I'm aware, was never passed off as a Hawken. They are some of the most accurate and durable mass production MRs ever produced, especially that first time period from 1976 thru 1984. We own more than a few and have bought and sold quite a few more and all were top notch and very accurate. The first guns are approaching their fortieth birthday and they're still taking game and winning matches around the world. That's a testament to it's good design, which the Lyman Great Plains Rifle owes its heritage to.

Yes, some MRs fetch high dollars, especially those with curly maple stocks. Several of ours have beautifully figured wood while the one I regularly shoot is fairly plain. Sorry to hear that you had two lemons.

[johnson1942]

the mountain rifles i was talking about back in the first page had barrels made by deer island or deer creek, something like that. he used hard maple for the stocks and cva triggers and locks and breech plugs. they were set up for double wedges. those barrels were cut very very good and very very accurate. very good guns