How much does copper strengthen?

[mattd]

A few years ago I bought a bunch of CCWW from a member and he said the alloy and been treated with copper to eliminate any zinc, and it also made the WW tougher.

I shot a deer front to back with the Lee 170g a couple years ago and no noticeable expansion from the entrance to exit at ~1900fps w the WW air cooled.

Last year I switched to the NOE 311299 with the deep HP, and softened it up with a 75% WW/25% pure mix. 1 deer, at ~1850fps, the bullet deflected off the shoulder and I recovered a perfectly expanded bullet from the rear quarter.

Fast forward to today. We're building a house, and all my stuff is in storage. I managed to dig out my pot and some pure. Just bought some Lino in S&S. So, a few weeks before deer season, I can refill my stocks.

My questions is, how much did that copper harden my WW lead? If I was using my copper WWs, and a non-HP bullet, I'd prolly go with 50/50 based on my past experience. But if I mix my pure and lino to equal typical 50/50 it might be much softer then my copper 50/50.

Normally, I'd test and figure it out, but time is limited and conditions arent great.

[bangerjim]

Copper SULFATE will combine with Zn (and Sn!) to remove it. But not really worth the hassle.

Copper in very small amounts will combine with alloy and add "toughness" not hardness.

I have a sweetening alloy I use that has 2% Cu. Diluted, the content ends up <.5%.

banger

[runfiverun]

the copper binds more with the antimony in the alloy and makes it harder for their crystals to break down and allow the alloy to flow under pressure.
that's the toughness part.

just mix your lead/lino 4 to1 and you'll have your basic ww plus soft alloy, it will re-act a little differently on impact but it will have plenty of malleability to be able to flow without breaking apart at normal cast boolit speeds.

[popper]

how much did that copper harden my WW lead? Unless you know the Cu content, you won't know until you BHN test it. If AC, it doesn't add much MEASUREABLE BHN. WD is completely different. I'd go with R5R's recommendation as you don't have testing time. 4/1/0.25 (WW/Cu) might keep the deep HP from breaking up.

[mattd]

Thanks guys! Planning on leaving the 3006 in the cabin for the first time ever, and the 311299 HP. Instead going with the 303 Brit and a 316 lovern bullet that's not HPed. I had a handful of the loverns with me, made 50/50 with my copper WW and pure. It's shot well at around 1800fps.

Sounds like if if I mix the Lino to equal normal 50/50 I'll be pretty close to what I had.

[runfiverun]

the trick is in the Tin amount.
antimony alone in the 3% range will not add brittleness, as soon as you get your tin content over 1% it changes the whole matrix inside the alloy.
the antimony will actually encourage the lead to be more malleable since it's 'crystals' will break down under pressure and allow the lead to slide over itself easier.
Tin is not flexible nor does it tear apart easily, that is why you hear popping and creaking noises when you bend a tin bearing bar of lead.
and why Tin alloys are discouraged when swaging.

[303Guy]

I wanted to use copper in the absence of antimony since I didn't have any. I had plenty of tin, so, I mixed up some alloy and dissolved copper in it. It was fairly tough and very ductile, but not hard at all. A great alloy for low velocity boolits. The things would turn inside out without losing mass!

Now I seem to have too much antimony. :-?

[mattd]

I mixed up a pound of the Lino w 7 pounds of pure. According to the calculator that brought me to 10.3 bhn, w just enough tin to get it close to 2%. According to the calculator that is really close to what normal 50/50 would be.

My lino mix is a lot softer then My original copper 50/50. I can gouge it w my finger nail really easy. The original I have to press real hard to get a finger nail to make a small mark. Dosent bother me much as long as it dosent lead the barrel. I like expansion.

I have 9 of my copper 50/50 bullets left, and almost honed in on a decent load. If I can do 2" at 50y I'll be good. Got 4 loaded up to confirm, and will have 5 for season. So these new ones might not get any use for awhile.