H4227 or IMR 4227 as used in the 45 colt

[gc45]

Not a new cast boolit shooter, but new to using either of our 4227 powders and specifically in 45 Colt only revolvers.
My question: The Hank Williams load has me wanting to buy this powder but before doing so, I'd like to hear from those who actually shoot this load and why or why not they either continue or have quit. Having shot lots of Unique I remain ok with it but never got 25-50 yard 1 1/2 inch accuracy from any revolver using Unique. Still, Unique is very good and very forgiving for most case designs but like many of us get once in awhile, I just want something with better accuracy and at 900-1000 fps for my Ruger BH's. Not sure I'd shoot these loads in my Smith 25-7 mountain gun though...
Having read every post I can find concerning the Hank Williams Jr load of 20 grains and 255gr Boolits, there seems to be many differences to shooters as to the acceptance of this load or this powder as their "go to load". Many complain about unburned power, or being a dirty powder, or powder jamming up their cylinder if having tight tolerances, what primer is best, LR, LRM or the middle ground WLR. Some complain it is to expensive due to amount used when compared to faster powders that, IMO can be hard on revolvers when loaded with stout charges. Any way, If you like this powder somewhere about 18-20 grains I for one would like to hear about your experiences including what charge and bullet you are loading and what primer you find is proper for this powder. Large powder charge costs don't bother me so much as I won't be shooting 1000's of rounds but more having a woods carry load that is powerful, accurate and with good velocity but not a flame thrower either...I plan to use bullets of 255 grains cast of BH 12 and 15 both.


GC45

[rond]

I started at 18 grains and settled on 20 for a 250 grain RNFP, heavy crimp. Doesn't seem any dirtier than Unique in my Blackhawk.

[Idaho Mule]

gc45, Just go for it. Buy a pound of powder and try it. I have not tried 4227 yet and would be interested in hearing your results. JW

[Grapeshot]

When I first started to reload for my guns, June 1974, I was given a pound of IMR4227 to get me started. I had a copies of the Latest Lyman handbooks, both the Cast Bullet Handbook and Lyman's Reloading Handbook for J-word loads. I was using the IMR4227 in my Colt .45 SAA. I do not remember the load at this time, but I liked the way it shot and the accuracy I experienced. I had no issues with it. YMMV.

[gc45]

Maybe the popularity has dwindled now. I have one pound of this powder, like to use it up along with a couple boxes of Beartooth bullets and in my RBH 45 colt. The 20 grain load seems to be the best from what I can find on internet.
Thanks for reply's.
GC45

[cherokeetracker]

Not a new cast boolit shooter, but new to using either of our 4227 powders and specifically in 45 Colt only revolvers.
My question: The Hank Williams load has me wanting to buy this powder but before doing so, I'd like to hear from those who actually shoot this load and why or why not they either continue or have quit. Having shot lots of Unique I remain ok with it but never got 25-50 yard 1 1/2 inch accuracy from any revolver using Unique. Still, Unique is very good and very forgiving for most case designs but like many of us get once in awhile, I just want something with better accuracy and at 900-1000 fps for my Ruger BH's. Not sure I'd shoot these loads in my Smith 25-7 mountain gun though...
Having read every post I can find concerning the Hank Williams Jr load of 20 grains and 255gr Boolits, there seems to be many differences to shooters as to the acceptance of this load or this powder as their "go to load". Many complain about unburned power, or being a dirty powder, or powder jamming up their cylinder if having tight tolerances, what primer is best, LR, LRM or the middle ground WLR. Some complain it is to expensive due to amount used when compared to faster powders that, IMO can be hard on revolvers when loaded with stout charges. Any way, If you like this powder somewhere about 18-20 grains I for one would like to hear about your experiences including what charge and bullet you are loading and what primer you find is proper for this powder. Large powder charge costs don't bother me so much as I won't be shooting 1000's of rounds but more having a woods carry load that is powerful, accurate and with good velocity but not a flame thrower either...I plan to use bullets of 255 grains cast of BH 12 and 15 both.


GC45

Didn't see this earlier,,,, I have used the Hank Williams load and never had a problem. I also used 19 grains of IMR 4227. The 19 grain is fine for a relatively mild load. I did drop down to 18 grain just for grins and giggles and did not care for it. Yes, I could tell that it was a little milder, but I felt that 19 grains was needed to give that better performance. Moving to the 20 grains, gave me a little better group as far as accuracy was concerned. The primer I used was the WLP which is being touted as a regular or magnum primer. Excuse my being such a Cynic but it either is, or isn't.. I prefer the magnum primers such as CCI 350. About 8 grains of W231 is a good starting point if none of the above worked. You can and should go back to a regular primer.
You have a 25-7 and if I may suggest, You can even shoot a 260 grain with 8 grains of W231 . This is a very good load for that Gun. If you do not have any, or don't cast, or just don't have a mold to fit the bill, Cast Performance makes some that have a Gas check and I have used them, with no leading. A 4" barrel should give you around 900 FPS with this load. One of the reasons I suggest this load is that you said it would be a carry load for the woods. W231 does have a low flash. Remember to go back to a regular primer.

What ever load you end up with, and I hope you try all of them,,, That way you find out what works best for you . But what ever load you choose, shoot it at 25, 50, and even try it at 100 yards. Good luck

[Char-Gar]

I have fired several thousand 45 Colt loads with 20/4227 under cast SWC bullets of 245 to 260 grains and have had excellent results. Yes, there is a little unburned powder, but it has never caused a problems. Accuracy has been first rate.

I no longer use this powder because I can get the same great results with 6.5/Bulleye. In these days of expensive, hard to find powders, I see no reason to use 20 grains when 6.5 will do.

Bulleye is also hard to find but 8 to 8.5 Unique or 8.5 to 9 AA5 will also get the job done well.

Any of these loads will allow a man standing on his hind legs shooting a revolver to hit his target every time, if he and the revolver are up to the challenge. Any difference between them is splitting meaningless hairs. Now if a fellow thinks a revolver is a bench rest gun, then that is a different game.

[BigAl52]

Ive used 231, Red Dot, 4227, Unique, and HS6. There all good but my favorite of the 5 is HS6. I have had the best luck with accuracy with that powder and you use a little more than the 231,Red dot, and Unique but not near as much as the 4227. I save my 4227 for the 475 linebaugh. Al

[gc45]

Great info, thanks for sharing the past and present. Have 5 or 6 powders to try so looking forward to it all.

GC45

[GhostHawk]

I am with Char-Gar.

I have loaded .357 mag with IMR 4227 and it does very well in my H&R Handi rifle.
But for punching paper it is no more accurate than 4-6 grains of Red Dot. And I can shoot 4x as much for the same cost.

Good loads, consistent, with good accuracy. If I was still hunting I might load 20 of those for that purpose.
And I would go buy a bottle of purple or green nail polish. My Red Dot loads all get a little red dot on the primer.

[gc45]

Sound advice for sure. Not having tried many powders due to using Unique for years, figured I might as well try all the powders I have setting around, see what I can learn. Today in the loading room, my Bear Cave the Wife calls it, I made 25 more of these using Missouri coated bullets in BH12. I like casting my own mostly but wanted to try these coated bullets to see if they lead the barrel; there was none I could see after 10 rds in the 4 inch Smith MG.
GC45

153362

[RPRNY]

20 grs IMR 4227 and 250 grs soft cast is a great combo but 4227 leaves a lot of residue. Tight crimp is best.

[ironhead7544]

IMR4227 was designed for pistol sized rifle cartridges like the 44-40 and 38-40.

It is very easy on firearms IME. Very little leading and burns cooler than some.

It does leave some residue but wont effect your single actions. The only problem I have had is with S&W revolvers getting some of it under the extractor star. That is also true of WW296/H110 and 2400. OT, but AA#9 burns clean in Magnum loads and wont cause problems with the S&W.
I would try the Hank Williams load and see how it works in your revolvers

IMR4227 is very low flash, if that makes a difference.

[gc45]

Great info, thanks for all the encouragement! Just today, a friend at church gave me another pound of unopened 4227 that had belonged to his Father so now have two lbs. to shoot, or about 700 rds if not spilling any! I won't be using it in the Smith as it likes 231 so well but in both Ruger BH's, 5.5 and 7.5 inch barrels. Our range is closed until Dec 1st for repairs so I'll let you all know my results soon after that.

GC45

[dakota]

The S&W 25-15 45 Colt found my home a few months ago. I've used IMR4227. But so far the accuracy isn't what I'd hoped for 4-5" at 40 yards, but I have not given up. I've also tried 5744. I was going to Unique...

[cowboy4evr]

I had a Smith 25-10 , 45 Colt with the 6" barrel . The accuracy was marginal . After slugging the barrel and taking 2 measurements , first at the muzzle and the 2nd after pushing the lead slug ( should say pounding ) all the way through the barrel I found I had a tight spot where the barrel threaded onto the frame . It was over 4 thousandths choke (tight spot) . I had to fire lap the barrel and have a taller front sight installed . The cylinder throats were a bit undersize as well . Regards, Paul

[cwlongshot]

Wish I could get some more H4227...

CW

[cowboy4evr]

When using IMR - 4227 , H-110 / W296 and HS-6 , I always , I mean always use a full magnum primer " CCI 350 " for large cases and " CCI 550 " for my 357 loads . I have shot 22 grs of 4227 using a 255 gr cast bullet , but found I liked 8.0 grs of 231 and Ramshot Zip more . The above loads were shot out of a modern revolver , large frame . Regards, Paul

[USSR]

Wish I could get some more H4227...

CW

CW,

The old H4227 is the new IMR4227. When Hodgdon got the rights to IMR powder, they found that the IMR name outsold the H name powder, and since they didn't need both, they renamed their H4227 powder to IMR4227 and dropped the original IMR4227 powder. So their old H4227 is now sold as IMR4227.

Don

[tomme boy]

Yep SAME powder.

[cwlongshot]

Odd because I cannot replicate accuracy I HAD with H4227. Using IMR MARKED 4227... NOT even close!!

CW

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I did NOT know that 20 grains of IMR4227 and a 250 gr bullet was the 'Hank Williams Jr' load. I started using 20 grs of IMR4227 over a Lyman 454424, .454 WW bullet in 1968 in a Hawes .45 Colt. It was/is a very accurate combination.

[Martin Luber]

Is it (HWjr load) safe for Colts SAA and Ubertis? Thanks

[rondog]

Is it (HWjr load) safe for Colts SAA and Ubertis? Thanks

Um, I'm no expert, but I'd be REAL careful about that! I use 21gr if IMR4227 under a 255 in my Rossi rifle, and it's a thumper. NWIH I'd use it in my Uberti Cattleman 6-gun.

[rondog]

I used 21gr IMR4227 under a Lee 255 LRN to take a doe at 250 yards. I wouldn't recommend that load in Colt SAA's, Uberti's, or any other light revolvers.

[cwlongshot]

Agreed!! Unique (like powders) is all ill shoot outta mine!

CW

[dakota]

I had a Smith 25-10 , 45 Colt with the 6" barrel . The accuracy was marginal . After slugging the barrel and taking 2 measurements , first at the muzzle and the 2nd after pushing the lead slug ( should say pounding ) all the way through the barrel I found I had a tight spot where the barrel threaded onto the frame . It was over 4 thousandths choke (tight spot) . I had to fire lap the barrel and have a taller front sight installed . The cylinder throats were a bit undersize as well . Regards, Paul

I've heard elsewhere that when S&W changed from pin and recessed this was an issue. I was hoping that they learned how to not do this.
How did you measure the muzzle diameter? I'd like to do the same.

[dakota]

I've heard elsewhere that when S&W changed from pin and recessed this was an issue. I was hoping that they learned how to not do this.
How did you measure the muzzle diameter? I'd like to do the same.

I just pounded a lead ball through the barrel. The tightest spot DEFINITELY was where the barrel threaded to the frame. My 25 is a 25-15. So fire lapping here I come. Question, How many rounds did it take for your revolver?

[dakota]

Fire lapping seemed to help some. The bore sure seems polished too. I'm thinking my revolver may need the cylinder/chambers opened???

[USSR]

I'm thinking my revolver may need the cylinder/chambers opened???

Easy to check your throats. Take a jacketed .45 ACP bullet (.451") and try to push it thru each throat. If it doesn't want to pass thru relatively easy, you have tight throats that should be opened up.

Don

[AlaskaMike]

This thread is an old one from 2015 that got resurrected. I don't care for relatively light loads of 4227 in the .45 Colt. When I tested 20 and 21 grains of older IMR-4227 with the 45-270-SAA in my 7.5" .45 Colt Redhawk, after firing just 12 rounds the bench I was firing over looked like I'd take a full pepper shaker and dumped it on the bench there was so much unburned powder. The loads were accurate enough, just seemed way too light for the powder. I've never tried H4227, and maybe that works much better. Since I was using the Redhawk, I also tested 24 grains with the same bullet, and of course it cleaned up but was basically a magnum load at that level.

I much prefer either 8 grains of 231 or 10 grains of Power Pistol with a 250-270 grain SWC. Just as accurate, far lower standard deviation, and much, much cleaner.

[USSR]

Yep, 4227 is too slow a powder for light loads.

Don

[dakota]

Easy to check your throats. Take a jacketed .45 ACP bullet (.451") and try to push it thru each throat. If it doesn't want to pass thru relatively easy, you have tight throats that should be opened up.

Don

I did that thanks!

It is a tight fit! I miked the Jacketed bullet - .451

The lead balls I pounded through were ~~ .453.

Shouldn't the cylinder be larger than the bore for best accuracy?

[USSR]

I did that thanks!

It is a tight fit! I miked the Jacketed bullet - .451

The lead balls I pounded through were ~~ .453.

Shouldn't the cylinder be larger than the bore for best accuracy?

If the .451" jacketed bullets were a tight fit in your throats and you intend to use lead bullets, I would have your throats opened up a thou or two. There is a guy on this site that does it.

Don

[dakota]

If the .451" jacketed bullets were a tight fit in your throats and you intend to use lead bullets, I would have your throats opened up a thou or two. There is a guy on this site that does it.

Don

Cylinder sent to Doug

[cowboy4evr]

I have used 4227 in the past but have decided it's just too slow of a burn rate powder for such a low pressure round and it used way too much powder . The slowest powder I use these days is Blue Dot in 45 Colt using current Alliant load data . Most of my loads use either Red Dot , Ramshot Zip , WSF or Accurate #2 . I recently tried some BE-86 and liked it , but want some more testing before it becomes one of the favorites . OMG , I almost forgot . I tried recently some Ramshot True Blue . That shot very well . I"m very happy with my results using it . I will be keeping that one in stock . I use the original Keith swc , HG 501 , 255gr . I have a 4 cav mold , complete with handles I bought from an estate . Regards, Paul

[1bluehorse]

CW,

The old H4227 is the new IMR4227. When Hodgdon got the rights to IMR powder, they found that the IMR name outsold the H name powder, and since they didn't need both, they renamed their H4227 powder to IMR4227 and dropped the original IMR4227 powder. So their old H4227 is now sold as IMR4227.

Don

There still seems to be a "bit" of confusion between these two. Without getting into "used to be" and "now is", the easy way to tell which you have is look at the label on the container. If it's from Australia it is H4227 period. If it's from Canada it is IMR 4227. If it says it's IMR 4227 AND IT'S MADE IN AUSTRALIA it's H4227. The "originals" were close to each other but not the same with H4227 being just a bit slower and said to be one of their extreme powders.

[cwlongshot]

There still seems to be a "bit" of confusion between these two. Without getting into "used to be" and "now is", the easy way to tell which you have is look at the label on the container. If it's from Australia it is H4227 period. If it's from Canada it is IMR 4227. If it says it's IMR 4227 AND IT'S MADE IN AUSTRALIA it's H4227. The "originals" were close to each other but not the same with H4227 being just a bit slower and said to be one of their extreme powders.

Thank you!

CW