Which single shot?

[andym79]

Hi guys, you might have seen from my other post that I am very keen on getting a Uberti 1885 (in 40-65). I am a big lever gun fan and often compete in matches shooting paper target animals and silhouette. I also sometimes go to single shot matches, these are to be conducted benchrest and prone with a single shot lever action e.g. Ruger 1, 1885, Martini etc. The guys have been letting me use my 1894 in 38-55 as a single shot.

The two matches they do are 1 30 rounds at 300 yards benchrest and 30 rounds at 200 yards prone
the other match is 30 rounds at 200 yards benchrest and 30 rounds at 100 yards off hand.

I want to get an appropriate single shot as I am sure that better benchrest and prone accuracy cant be got out of an 1885 than an 1894 and its not strictly a match acceptable gun should I want to go to state titles in the future!

I would consider something like a Ruger 1 in 22-250 or 220 swift,l but I want a rifle that can also be used for Silhouette and maybe black powder. A lot of the accurate HV rounds that might be great benchrest prone cartridges are not any goof for silhouette and certainly not BP.

Of these three cartridges which do you think would best fill the criteria 38-55, 40-65 or 45-70. I am a fairly small guy so I am a bit reluctant to go for a 45-70 (also I might be wrong, but I think they have the least flat trajectory of the three).

Thanks

[M-Tecs]

That must be a local match since most of the BPCR types matches don't allow hammerless actions.

BPCR rules http://bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/NRA_rules_for_BPCR.htm

3.4 Black Powder Cartridge Rifle - A hunting or military style rifle, single shot, originally made for black powder cartridges, of United States manufacture prior to 1896 and being typical of the era. Replicas thereof, regardless of origin of manufacture, are permitted. Hammer must be exposed. If replacement barrels, stocks, or other parts are used, they must be as original. No Schuetzen-style rifles permitted. One rifle will be used during all phases of the match. Examples of permissible rifles are: Ballard, Buck, Bullard, Cole, Farrow, Maynard, Peabody, Redfield, Remington Hepburn, Remington Rolling Block, Sharps, Springfield Trapdoor, Stevens Tip-up, Stevens No. 44, Wesson Falling Block, Wesson (hinged barrel), Whitney Phoenix, Whitney Rolling Block, Winchester 1885, and Wurfflein. While the following single shot actions may not conform to the exact criteria of Rule 3.4, they are allowed because they conform to the spirit of the competition in forth and function, provided the firearms conform to all other configurations of Rule 3.4: Browning Model 1878, Browning Model 1885, C. Sharps '75, Falling Block Works, Stevens 44 1/2 and Wickliff '76. Replicas other than exact reproductions of pre-1896 Black Powder actions as described above and shooting equipment as described herein, must be passed by the Silhouette Committee with the advice of the Black Powder Committee. It shall be the competitor's responsibility to provide any documentation which may be required to establish that all Black Powder Cartridge Rifle equipment conforms to these rules.

Bullet must be lead also.



I want to get an appropriate single shot as I am sure that better benchrest and prone accuracy cant be got out of an 1885 than an 1894 and its not strictly a match acceptable gun should I want to go to state titles in the future!


I am reading the "can't" as a typo. The 1885 normally will be more accurate the 1894's by a wide margin.


Hi guys, you might have seen from my other post that I am very keen on getting a Uberti 1885 (in 40-65).

Both mine are rebarreled orginals but the Petersoli's seem to hold an accurcy edge over the Uberti's

[andym79]

Hi yes well spotted it should read I am sure better accuracy can be got out of an 1885, the 1894 is a great gun but not renown for the best accuracy!

Yes it is a local match, it doesn't even have to be shot using BP.

I want to get an 1885 and an old BP cartridge so that I can use it in Silhouette and other BP matches as well as this local oddity!

As to lead bullets, yes all the guys use home grown cast. I use cast in everything I have except the 223.

[stubbicatt]

I don't know as there is a pat answer. Presently I'm using a 1905 vintage 32-40 for our club's 200 yard silhouette match. It works just fine under the rules used there, but a little anemic otherwise. I haven't tried to shoot black in it.

Of the cartridges you have listed there, the 38-55 strikes me as one of the better choices. IME, while recoil is not severe in the 45-70, the 40-65 is pretty close in perceived recoil to the 45-70, and the cumulative effect of recoil can be enough to induce a flinch after several rounds. The 38-55 is pretty mild in comparison, and may delay the flinch effect for several rounds.

Additionally, the 38-55 can be loaded to darned good accuracy in a good barrel, whether smokeless or BP. It would be a versatile choice.

In the last few years some BP competitors have determined that a faster twist in the 38-55 will allow you to shoot heavy for caliber bullets and have a greater effect on the 500m rams in BP competitions. The consensus is that it is harder to load for a fast twist barrel, but if that appeals to you, the Pedersoli high wall comes with a fast twist barrel that is regarded by many as an exceptional barrel. It is also ~$1000 more expensive than the Uberti.

Be advised that the DST option on the Uberti is a unique setup. Unique in that one cannot use the front trigger to release the hammer unless one first "sets" the trigger. I see this as a deal breaker, but it might be ok for you.

The single example of the Pedersoli High Wall I have examined in person left much to be desired in terms of fit and finish. The wood of the fore end did not touch the front of the receiver on the port side, and the wood of the buttstock stood proud of the receiver by a noticeable amount. The wood had an orange hue. It was disappointing. The single set trigger had a really wide shoe, and the curve seemed odd in comparison to the SST on my 1888 vintage 45-70. It had a schuetzen style trigger guard/lever which just didn't look right or feel right on that rifle. Together, these issues put me off from buying this example. Other examples might be nicer, or better finished. -If there is a lesson here, be sure to handle and closely examine the example you wish to buy.

Another option worth exploring is a Browning or Winchester (Miroku) rifle, as they have a consistent quality between examples and perform very well. Some say to hold out for a BPCR Browning with the Badger barrel, if you can find one, as it will perform better with black. I don't know about that. Often a trigger job is desired on the Miroku models, and I understand Lee Shaver does a good job with that trigger.

Hope this helps you make a good decision.

ETA Afterthought: If you have a little patience, you can get a Shuttleworth Stevens for not a whole lot more money than the Pedersoli, and they are really sweet rifles. http://singleshotrifles.com

ETA2: Here's one that might interest you. I have no interest in this rifle nor do I know the seller, but thought it might help. http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1442332166

[andym79]

To add another dimension, what twist rate is need for each to stabilise the big bullets?

38-55 1:16?
40-65 1:18?
45-70 1:20?

[NSB]

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64191 Outstanding buy and the sights have to be worth at least half the cost of the asking price. If I didn't have more 45-70s than I need already, I'd jump all over this deal.

[M-Tecs]

I am using 1-16 in my 45-70. I would not go slower than 1-18 in the 45/70. This seems to be the most used but the 16 & 17 twist are coming on strong. For lead bullets only 50/50 land and groove seems to do better than 70/30's.

[andym79]

The Uberti 1885 in 40-65 has a 1:18 twist is that too slow?

[M-Tecs]

I have never fired a round of 40-65 so I cannot comment. If you post this question in the BPCR forum here I believe you will get a better response.

The choice of boolits is based on the distance you are shooting. The longer the range the heavier boolit. The longer the boolit the quicker the twist. If you are not shooting 1000 yard or further the standard twists may be fine.

Some other forums to get got info. from:

http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/Technical_Information.htm

http://www.bpcr.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=22