RCBS Pro Chucker 5 Progressive Reloading Press

[terryt]

Hi:

Does any one have a RCBS Pro Chucker 5 Progressive Reloading Press.

What do you think of it?
Thanks,

Terryt

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/446378_Pro_chucker_5_mini_review.html&page=3

Looks like it has one weak link, fairly easy to fix.

[cheese1566]

Unsure if they currently do, but MidwayUSA had a lot of shell plates in "clearance"

[Expat74]

I got me one for xmas but it arrived afterwards since... uhg long story short it's on my bench and has got a good couple 100 rounds through it both pistol and rifle. Once set up and tuned with a bit of grease everything runs smooth and powder spilling is minimal, except.. yes, primer feed. Everybody's gripe it seems. Personally, I broke two of the four (LP, SP) primer bars already, the material is really rubbish. Both of them broke with the first (1st that is) stroke on the lever. I'm following the thread over at ar15.com (https://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=446378&page=1) and just decided for myself I hand prime unless RCBS comes up with a better primer slide bar. Other than that I like it. So with SHOT coming up, my hopes are that in the meantime RCBS found a solution for the priming system on this one.

[jmorris]

Odd that the priming system would be the problem. Switching from the APS strips to the tube upset RCBS fans the most. You would have thought they would at least made a reliable design.

[dragon813gt]

Odd that the priming system would be the problem. Switching from the APS strips to the tube upset RCBS fans the most. You would have at least thought they would at least made a reliable design.

This is what I was thinking. The APS system worked very well and had plenty of fans. To see the fragile system they developed sure isn't helping their sales.

[jmorris]

I figured the lack of a case feeder would have been what would cause slow sales (even more so with the pro 7) have they come out with one yet?

[dragon813gt]

Last I heard it was supposed to be out early this year. And the lack of one combined w/ the priming system is sure to lead to slow sales.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

You gotta wonder about RCBS. Sometimes they are their own worst enemy.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Would a primer bar out of brass or bronze help and solve the problem?

Don't own one, just wondering?

[jmorris]

I don't have one either but they might have designed it to fail instead of breaking a bunch of other stuff on the machine.

They knew the part would fail, that's why they send extras with the press. So they likely had a good reason to not make the part stronger.

Kind of of the same thing as a fuse or circuit breaker.

[seagiant]

I don't have one either but they might have designed it to fail instead of breaking a bunch of other stuff on the machine.

They knew the part would fail, that's why they send extras with the press. So they likely had a good reason to not make the part stronger.

Kind of of the same thing as a fuse or circuit breaker.



Hi,
Then that would tell me it's a more serious problem to fix!

A weak part fix is easy, a design problem, not so much!

[Expat74]

Hi,
Would a primer bar out of brass or bronze help and solve the problem?

Don't own one, just wondering?

That's probably the solution I am going towards.. unless there is some new and improved version coming up at SHOT. Hand priming is fine, after a couple 1000 though..

[seagiant]

That's probably the solution I am going towards.. unless there is some new and improved version coming up at SHOT. Hand priming is fine, after a couple 1000 though..


Hi,
IMO if a Progressive press won't prime, it's not a progressive, it's an expensive turret!

Just sayin!

[W.R.Buchanan]

The New/Current Handloader Mag has an article by Charlie Petty on the 7 Station Machine. He broke the primer feed on the first stroke as well.

A marginal Magazine article will kill sales.

My son got a 5 station one for Christmas and I will be the one to set it up,,, after reading the instructions. I will also be talking to RCBS at the SHOT Show next week and finding out What is going on with these machines.

Putting out a machine that is as complex as these are is no small accomplishment,,, however putting out one that isn't right is a big mistake.

Randy

[jmorris]

I figured the sales killer for the pro 7 would be the lack of case feeder. It can't compete with the cheaper LNL or 650 without one and who knows what that will add to the $850 the press costs.

Guess it doesn't matter either way if the priming system doesn't work.

[W.R.Buchanan]

It blows me away that they would put this thing out with obvious flaws. According to Petty they knew the priming system had problems as they told him so when he called for parts. He also called several other times with problems.

Dillon wouldn't do this.

Randy

[troyboy]

When was the last time Dillion came out with a new progressive press?

[jmorris]

When was the last time Dillion came out with a new progressive press?

Been a few years (2009 IIRC) but the BFR is the last press they put on the market.

[dragon813gt]

Is there a reason to design a new press? Many models leads to having to stock a lot of parts to support your customers. Look at the aftermarket for Dillons. If there really was a need to fix/upgrade it then someone would be making it by now.

[omgb]

If one were going to buy a progressive press, only the 7 hole will really do. When I was in my late 30s I "had" to have a progressive press. So I bought a LNL and a case feeder. Then I had to have another so that one would remain set up for rifle and one for pistol. Then I had to have a bullet feeder and then I had to have the new shell plate ejector system and then the new powder drop and expander system and ...... It just goes on and on. My go to press? My Redding T7. Simple, never breaks, always works and is fast enough for runs of 250 or so. If I had it to do over I would rather have not spent all the money. Too much tinkering and not enough pleasure. My guess is the RCBS unit will be good but it will be something one has to tinker with to get right. Let me point something out. Progressive reloaders are really off shoots of the canning industry. There automation "loads" cans and moves them along the line. A progressive press does the same thing. Now Budweiser is a company I am familiar with having family members who work there. No doubt, they have highly progressive "reloader" in their beer bottling machine. To keep it running, they employ a team of electricians and mechanics 24/7 to fix, adjut and generally keep running that assembly line. Now if a billion dollar company like AB recognizes that all automated assembly lines require constant tweaking, then what should the home reloader expect? Exactly. So no matter who designs it, it's gonna require constant adjusting and maintenance to keep running. That's why my T7 is my favorite press. No hassle, no fuss, just good functional ammo.

[W.R.Buchanan]

When was the last time Dillion came out with a new progressive press?

Why would they need to? Dillon has all the bases covered and all of their products work very well.

The only reason why RCBS came out with these machines is because they are trying to compete with Dillon and Hornady and their existing products don't.

Their new products will take some more development and I'm sure they'll get there eventually. They've got too much invested in this line to simply drop it. However if they don't fix it fast and word gets around they won't have a choice but to drop it as the sales won't support the costs to manufacture.

RCBS is owned by ATK which is part of the Freedom Group and ultimately owned by Cerberus.

Cerberus only cares about profitability,,, Period!

Randy

[troyboy]

Dillion isnt any better then the others, they just get the accolades. My ammomaster is everything the 550 is and more. I need to stop because this isnt about that topic. It is about the new RCBS progressive.

[troyboy]

I agree that RCBS needs to address this issue. The press should have never have been released because there is an oblivious deficiency in the priming system. It is bad buisness.

[jmorris]

Dillion isnt any better then the others, they just get the accolades.

You have to ask yourself why the Yugo didn't receive "the accolades". It was a ***, having or have had Dillon, Hornady, RCBS and Lee progressives IMO the Dillon's are better at keeping you loading but some are closer than others.

[Expat74]

Well I guess it's the fate of early adopting..

I like mine. I guess it all boils down to which brand you like more. They all spit out a loaded round at the end, whether they are blue, green, or red.

[VHoward]

I already have a Dillon XL650 so did not consider buying the Pro Chucker. But I am curious what the part that is snapping looks like. I guess I just don't understand why they would abandon a system that was working and go to a design they didn't perfect before putting it on a production machine?

[Expat74]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160117/75fed5b1196ad33254c8947152caf71f.jpg

Left good, right with pin snapped off

[W.R.Buchanan]

Seems like a guy could drill a hole where that pin broke off and push in a 1/8 dowel pin? just thinkin' ?

What exactly does that pin do?

Randy

[Expat74]

The pin acts as the guide pulling the primer feed backwards under the primer feed tube. And.. no, drilling this part is futile.. it runs on a small rail and thus is hollow underneath. Read all about it on the ar15.com...

This part's shape should be good if the material wasn't the problem.

[VHoward]

Maybe machine a part out of plastic that isn't as brittle? Delrin? I hope RCBS is going to fix this. I know RCBS will send out free replacement parts, but it is annoying. If the part is inexpensive, I would just buy them by the dozen if they are that fragile.

[Expat74]

Old thread I know.. thought I'd give an update from my side. I processed a couple thousand 9mm, about a 1k .45 ACP, some .357/.38, .40, and 10mm through it. I got the press beginning of this year. Overall, the press is sturdy however some parts are definitely under-engineered.

Worked flawlessly for me except the issue with the primer system and primer feed bars which in the meantime are all broken. Still handpriming. There is a case feeder available for it now but whatever. Have no need.

On a positive note, I found a neat solution for an adapter to link a Lee system to a Hornady bullet feed die which works awesome. Bully adapter or something. That's not the press though.

The basic operation of the press is as intuitive as any other progressive. Powder measure works as advertised. If you don't load 5k pistol rounds at once, the hopper volume is sufficient too. If you read the manual and follow the indications, cases will line up correctly under the die. Some people on other forums complained about that.. there's even a video from RCBS now showing the assembly.

This week I started working on a batch of .223 when the shellholder plate suddenly started acting funny and not indexing any more. I couldn't see why at first and upon close examination it turned out that the lever rotating the shellplate until the index point had a hair crack and flexed under load. Mind you, this thing is metal. The root cause for this seems to be the little L-shaped wire that is supposed to move the round out of the shellplate once it went up in the last die. Sometimes a case gets stuck on this wire and then the index lever is overflexed if you don't realize the problem immediately. Careful tweaking of the angle of the wire might prevent the indexer breaking from occuring in the future.

Replacement parts are on the way from RCBS, however the press is inoperable at the moment due to the missing indexer and I take the opportunity to give it a good cleaning. I haven't heard of any improvements regarding the primer feed bars. If they made them from a tougher material a huge issue would be solved right away. But that's nothing new.

Later.

[jmorris]

Thats too bad. The beauty of a progressive is to speed up the process.

Looks like a step back from the Pro 2000 if you are having to resort to hand priming.

[VHoward]

Thanks for the update. I agree with JMorris. The purpose of a progressive press is lost if you can't prime on it. I think I would be tempted to take the original part to a metal shop and see if they could fabricate a replacement out of aluminium. But then that might break some other part of the press.

[omgb]

I cant tell you how crappy that is. To make a part so prone to breakage is bad business. Im sad for RCBS. This is shades of the Green Machine; good in theory but flawed in execution

[Expat74]

With the indexer, replacement bars, and spring still in the mail I got bored and thought let's have another look at the primer bar. I remembered the mini review I read on ar15.com, people started polishing and deburring and what not. Lazy individual that I am, refused to do RCBS' work so I did nothing other than rubbing the plastic on the hardwood of my reloading bench until it shined (5 seconds). Another thing mentioned was the spring being too strong so I looked for a replacement. You know the latex single use gloves that you throw away a ton of every year (if you use them for reloading and everything else)? On the top there's a collar, which I ripped off a used one, tied a knot in the middle and used one of the loops as spring. That plus "polishing" = flawless operation. And I have ton of spares already.

176741 176742

For now, that seems to work.

[omgb]

It's sad that you have to resort to such a Micky Mouse work around. My LNL has a similar problem with the primer slide. There are a whole lot of fixes on the internet but here's what I did. First, I put a very slight champfer on the pick-up side of the slide's primer hole. This makes it easier for a slightly tipped primer to drop into the shuttle. Second, I made sure that I adjusted the drop tube to be exactly over the center of the pick up hole when the slide was cycled full back. Finally, I burnished the bottom of the slide to remove all burs and I make sure I blow off the slide guide when any excess powder falls on the platen. Since doing that, my machine has become almost flawless. I recently invested in a heavy-duty plastic guide holder. On the LNL, there is a steel guide wire that runs from the top of the press to the base plate. The primer shuttle has a wheel on the side that follows that wire causing the slide to move fore and abaft. The factory part is designed to release that wire if the slide becomes jammed. Unfortunately, it often does so by breaking. I found a guy on the web who makes a much sturdier plastic holder that is designed to cleanly release the wire should it get snagged. The part is made with a plastic printer and t's very low cost. So far I haven't needed it but if/when I do, I have no reason to doubt that it will be an improvement. FWIW, it looks like your "hack" is an improvement too. RCBS, are you listening?

[Expat74]

I don't mind Mickey Mouse, as long as it works and I can finally do some priming on the press. Question is for how long until the next slider bites the dust. Things do look much smoother now. A courtesy bag of sliders, 50 each of small and large primers would be in order. That way I wouldn't have to send an email or call each time.

Sorry for your troubles omgb, it seems they only do real QC on the machines for exhibitions. The LnL has already it's user crowd coming up with real improvements and putting them out on the net while I guess for the Pro Chucker that'll be some more waiting time until that happens.

[Randy C]

Hi,
IMO if a Progressive press won't prime, it's not a progressive, it's an expensive turret!

Just sayin!
I use my pro2000 as a Turret Die plates were affordable, it primes good for me now but I'm not in a hurry any more.

[omgb]

I imagine that much of the trouble with progressives comes from poor finishing. Some, like the LNL and I guess the RCBS machine, have close tolerance parts that need better finishing to work reliably. Doing that at the factory would be cost prohibitive. (If you have ever worked with a Spolar shotshell reloader you know what factory fit and finish could be if you were willing to spend the $$$) I think Lee works because they have designed in slop and make no pretenses about fine fitting and machining. They limit the close work to critical areas like die dimensions etc. Dillon's basic design is simple and less costly to make. In the key areas that require close work, Dillon spends some time fitting and testing before release or so it seems anyway. Being one of the first to make an automated press gives them some advantage in patents etc. ( A look at Dillon's design especially the powder measure shows that the basis of their platform shares key elements with the old Star reloader but....The Star was a painstakingly hand fitted machine whereas the Dillon does away with a lot of that through better engineering practices available today verses the 1930s when Star of San Diego opened its doors) The rest have to find work around designs that don't infringe on Dillon. Some are good, others not so much. The RCBS priming is the latter. Too bad. A ratchet driven strip primer would have solved everyone's problem area, even Dillon's. RCBS, you screwed the pooch on this one.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Polish it, put in a peice of drill rod (carbon steel) with red loctite and call it good????

[omgb]

I would love it if somebody designed a press with the following features:

The Hornady LNL advancing mechanism with the ability to shut off auto advance and click it around manually like a Dillon

A positive primer feed using RCBS primer strips in lengths of 100. This would be a ratchet advance that always put a primer in play with every pull of the handle.

A cutoff for above said feed for use in set up etc.

8 die stations for those times when you want to use cast bullets and have flairing seating and crimping all separate while maintaining a powder cop station too.

A positive case retention mechanism like Ponsness Warren uses on the PW375 only better and easier to remove from the shell plate for inspection etc.

The current Hornady powder system would be good IF it could be strictly case activated.

A reliable and adjustable case feeder.

A reliable bullet feeder that will positively feed cast-lubed bullets.

A positive case ejector that did not interfere with the final die station.

A reliable low primer warning that did not interfere with any die stations.

A reliable low powder warning.

A finished round counter that was not tied to press strokes, only finished rounds.

A good used primer containment system

A shell plate that is immune to clogging due to powder spills.

A system that would disconnect fragile parts IF a jam occurred...like the LNL

A shovel handle with ergonomically designed linkage.

Add your $.02 here.....

Reece Talley

[Expat74]

Took almost three weeks until they arrived in my part of the world, but here they are.. replacement parts from RCBS. Kudos to them!

3 of each small and large primer bars plus the other parts that broke. I note the primer sliders have a new design too.. let's get to work.

178556

Top - new; bottom - old

[OS OK]

Dang good discussion of the progressives, one of the first ones where it didn't turn into insults for having the wrong color.
Omgb's analogy, post #21 of having tradesmen around the equipment to constantly adjust the process is 'spot on'...believe me, I was a machine control electrician and played that part sometimes for weeks as we would get a new line going and then turn it over to the maintenance dept. Luckily our presses are about 1,000% more simple than a can line is...just requires patience and on the spot engineering at times...it's really too bad that the press companies don't sponsor a forum where their customers work hand and hand with the engineers to improve their press to the point where their brand would become the most desirable.
Unfortunately most engineers have a problem letting some cowboy from somewhere tell him what is wrong with his approach...too bad. I once told an engineer that I thought it was too bad they didn't have to serve at least a years apprenticeship in their particular trade in the manufacturing and maintenance shops so they could get a better understanding of how things go from paper drawings to actual application in the plants...he just looked at me with no comment, didn't have a clue as to what I was implying, oh well.
After looking over the different presses and running a few I finally chose the LnL because I thought it afforded me the most room between parts and dies for my large paws to manipulate things. I also polished the slide track and the primer shuttle with 1,200 grit wet sand paper and made them slide like glass on glass and that went miles in the right direction right off the bat...but, you still have to keep that area clean, no two ways around that.
Good thread, I'm glad to see someone revived it for a while...

[Expat74]

Add your $.02 here.....

Reece Talley


.. a long enough beta test phase to work out all the quirks.

Yes, they broke again.

[jmorris]

Yes, they broke again.

From 6:54 to 9:28 you broke your new parts?

[OS OK]

Expat74...Sorry to hear of you dilemma...especially being so far from the manufacturer. If you have a boat, at least you've got a spare anchor now.

An alternative though, to pull this one out of the fire is to work out an expedient process in cleaning/de-priming/re-priming where you always approach the press with clean primed brass beforehand...it seems to be the only out for you at this point. Make the most out of a bad situation and you can still hear them going ker-plunk, ker-plunk into the finished cartridge tray.
The cleaning/de-priming/re-priming becomes a separate and distinct process that doesn't happen right before a reloading session, it's done on days that you have set aside to prepare for the run...it's not that bad and on the plus side...it affords you better inspection of the cases, clean primer pockets and 100% assurance that the primers are set perfectly. So that's the 'bright side' so to speak.

[Expat74]

From 6:54 to 9:28 you broke your new parts?

Not trying to break records here, so only the small primer transfer bars have bitten the dust ;)

[Expat74]

OS OK, thanks! I will fall back on the workaround I did before .. run primed and sized brass from station 1. But as someone said before, it kinda makes it an expensive turret. It was good as long as it lasted. Asked for another set of bars though.

[jmorris]

Wow, I didn't realize the problem was that major. I guess I thought it was an "every now and then" issue.

[Expat74]

It's a good press, and RCBS customer service is as well. BUT... it obviously leaves room for improvement.

Why they changed the shape of the transfer bar is beyond me. If they don't change the spring strength, the material remains a problem. The old one worked flawless if you polished/removed the burrs and used a weaker spring (or rubber band as replacement). A slight deburring of the bottom of the primer tube fixture solved a binding primer issue. Could have been done after production.

The new transfer bars have a step or shelf in the front section that intends to push the primer stack upward out of the way when it moves forward, which does work but is not as smooth as the old entirely flat one which held the primer stack level. My guess is that it's supposed to help feeding the primers to the bar, so they drop into the hole easier. I never had real snagging issues with the old one. The new shape does cause the front of the transfer bar to hang up easier on the edge of the shell plate. From a video I found on youtube, the LnL AP primer system has a similar shape than the "improved" one from RCBS ... hm.

Unfortunately nowadays companies save on R&D by outsourcing the beta testing to the customer. See Samsung's recent phone ka-booms..

[Expat74]

I just found this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTQhUVIqzS8)video on youtube

[jmorris]

I don't think that's going to help you much. Those are the parts they just sent you that already broke.

One thing I did notice is that his mount allowed the press to move, that would exacerbate the primer flipping sideways problem.

I wonder what the bottom of the tube looks like?

Seems like making the slide out of aluminum or steel so it wouldn't break and then using a plastic oraface tip on the tube would be a better route , even though I have never liked them on the Dillon's, at least your not breaking primer slides.

[OS OK]

Something I noticed on that press is the abrupt knee in the primer slide bolted to the press's side...would you think that a little more radius on the curve there would allow the tension on the spring to flex easier. the post that keeps breaking has to do that corner and the way it is it allows the spring tension to hit the slide quickly and that translates to the post...I dunnoh, just a thought.
The other thing is that all those slide pieces ought be dressed carefully with 1,200 grit wet paper and polished...then I'd coat the track with a dry lube like Hornady one shot or a swiping with some dry graphite on a Q-tip...?
That's a close engineering copy to the LnL's guide track but the LnL has a bearing on the slide post...prolly lot's less friction to the slide aspect.
They did put some thought into the post though...when they radiused the edge joining area they did that to remove stress in the transition of that joint.
I suppose the stepped front of the slide allows the primer to drop in a little slower with less tendency to tip sideways, maybe there is too much slop in the ID of that prime tube support just above the slide.

[jmorris]

That's a close engineering copy to the LnL's guide track but the LnL has a bearing on the slide post

Also not a little plastic pin its riding on, you can tell they were influenced by the 550 quite a bit when they designed the LNL priming system.

[No Blue]

Guy on Arfcom thread thinned the slider until it was just a little thicker than the primer he was using; like a couple of thousanths thicker. Might be something to try.

Not having any of the high dollar progressive presses, I don't know exactly how the slider functions. Guessing it slides an inch or so from the tube to under the shell plate and back again. Doesn't seem like a lot of opportunity for all the grief I'm reading about.

OP, what's your best guess as to the point in the cycle where it breaks? Another guy on Arfcom managed to break a slider while cycling it with his finger before he even got the press bolted down! He did mention in the instruction manual there is a section about 'tuning' the slider??? Way in the back.

Always thought that hammer finish green was pretty....

[omgb]

Hornady recognized the potential for the slide to hang up and designed the guide rod with a disconnect at the top JIC the system jams. Also, LNL slides are metal with some built-in lubricity and a roller that guides the slide up the guide rod. The RCBS has neither of these features. I don't think any amount of tweaking will rectify this design flaw. But hope and human ingenuity spring eternal so who knows? I won't be tempted to go green any time soon.
Reece

[jmorris]

I don't think any amount of tweaking will rectify this design flaw.

There is always a fix but RCBS does have a history of ditching a design and going with something else.

[OS OK]

Dragging that little slide from the center on the side is also torquing it sideways in the slot...that's where a little polishing and some dry lube would go a long ways to keeping that fragile little pin on the slide and not on the bench...me thinks?

[dragon813gt]

There is always a fix but RCBS does have a history of ditching a design and going with something else.

You mean like ditching the APS system that worked flawlessly for the current one that breaks constantly? Companies don't need to constantly reinvent the wheel. Especially w/ reloading presses. Dillon is proof of this.

[Expat74]

dragon, that depends on your management.. there are is an endless stream of examples from the business world. For the sake of their bonusses, they call it "innovation". But that's another topic ;)

RCBS sent me an email last night with a troubleshooting guide for the press. They will also send the spare sliders. It would be helpful to others who seek information, but so far, it's not on their website. It covers the breaking bars, breaking/bending indexer, primer seating depth issues. I experienced the first two. They also give a few primer bar tuning tips that can be found in the manual also. It's good they re-emphasize those few points though.

Primer thickness issue: I think they solved this with the step in the slider bar. However, that has never been a problem for me.

There is really no exact spot as to when the pins break, it really can depend on a couple of factors. There's a wire that ejects the cases in station 5, get a case stuck there and apply too much force.. nasty noise. I personally think the primer return spring power also is a factor. I replaced it by a rubber band, which makes the priming system work fine (had to sacrifice two sliders to come to this conclusion) and I won't go back to the spring. It's just a softer cycle with less stress on the part and it still works. Additionally, I saw someone on youtube bring the slider guide, the one that forces the slider back and forth, a bit closer to the channel in which the slider rides by putting thin washers under it. I think I'll try that too to mitigate torque.

Yes, the primer slider guide on the LnL has less abrupt angles. It's shorter too I understand, metal, and the roller helps mitigating stress I assume. It also travels far less distance (back and forth) than the Pro Chucker's comparing the two guides.

[AbitNutz]

This is really a sad state of affairs for all of us. I would have liked to have had a choice between half a dozen great presses...right now, I have a Dillon 550B and a XL650. When I was looking to add to my capacity I looked really hard at a LnL but then took a breath and bought the 650. Then I kicked myself when I saw the 7-station RCBS.

I really hope they get this all ironed out and it ends up being a legendary press...in a good way.

The LnL now has a really strong fan base now doesn't it?

[OS OK]

LnL does...what sold me was how spread out the top die area was, I can actually get my mitts in and around them to adjust the powder dispenser and also like the quick die install. I converted the Rock Chucker too...now a BHN test or installing the push through sizers is sooo dang quick. It's nice too that the shell plate advances in 1/2 step increments and does not try to sling a loose projectile out of the case.
I just don't like the powder throw, I'd rather have the Uniflow up there.

[AbitNutz]

There are definitely a couple of things that I like about the LnL compared to the 650. As you say, there is more room around the die area. The 650 is too crowded. I would also like the option of replacing the entire toolhead or use LnL type bushings and quickly be able to replace each individual die. It would be ideal if the dillon toolhead took LnL bushings.

I also like the idea that the LnL advanced in 1/2 steps and seems to be less abrupt when moving.

Another thing I think I like about the LnL over the 650 is the use of the spring that retains the cartridges instead of brass buttons. I have managed to drop those brass buttons more than I care to remember.

My ideal progressive press would combine the best features of the all these top end presses. I really like the RCBS Projector 7's many die stations.

[omgb]

Interesting comments. The slide spring on the LNL is much whimpier than that spring on the RCBS machine. That may be an issue right there. Nobody does it perfectly for everyone but hey, if i were at RCBS I would have done just about anything to avoid using the primer systems that Dillon and Hornady use. Here's the deal, any gravity fed system will have issues. Any system that utilized an open slide will have contamination issues. We mitigate the gravity issue by using a light weight follower rod that drops down as the primers are used. This rod is also part of the low primer warning system. The weight of the rod does much to ensure primers drop down the tube. The open slide is a tough nut to crack. I keep a can of compressed air next to the loader and all spills are cleared immediately. The trouble is a short stroke or an overly rapid stroke can case primers to flip, jam or otherwise be AWOL when you need them. That results in a stoppage and possibly leaked powder all over the platen.

I actually prefer the Hornady powder measure with built in expander over all of the others brands. I converted an RCBS measure by adding the Hornady drop system. I too have big hands rendered all the more clumsy by arthritis and neuropathy. So I like the more open platform of the LNL.

[No Blue]

Expat74, you gotta come to the USA. Fly to NYC, buy a car, don't rent, and head for the sunset. The expat thang is a little confusing, expat from what?

It'll blow your mind. You'll drive for days, and 'Stalingrad' will always be over the horizon. It really is like that, you just drive for hours and hours and it's still the same state. Or country, like in Europe.

Eventually you'll end up in Oroville, California, home of RCBS, and you'll understand why they can't make a progressive press to save their life. I've been around here for 40 years, and Oroville has always been a cattle town and ag deal; like in almonds, walnuts, other left wing fruits and nuts.

So the Stanford or Cal Berkeley engineer looks at living in cow town, bugs out. They can't get top class guys to live in Oroville, not gonna happen.

So they can get community college guys like Aaron Rogers (inside joke) to work there, but the heavy hitters are not to be seen. Expat, without a web search, you have no idea who Aaron Rogers is, right?

So do the cross country trip, it's something everybody should at least once. I've done most of it 3 times, and looking to full time RV it next year. God Bless Donald Trump!

[Expat74]

So after roughly two years I sum up my experience with the press.

The concept seems a good one. The press overall does what it's supposed to do. I don't know if there were shortcuts taken during the development, it was rushed on the market for SHOT or simply needed to save on production cost. Whatever the case, the end user has to pay for the shortcuts. RCBS did a step in the right direction issuing a troubleshooting guide a year after release, but that's only half the way they actually needed to go.

The big achilles heel of the press is the priming system. There is a cam that actuates a slider that picks primers up from the primer tube (pics posted earlier in this thread I think). The sliders are made of plastic, and break sometimes only by looking at them. Way too delicate. These are by far the parts I ordered most as replacements and lost count of how many actually broke. Nothing for a press that is advertised as 600rd an hour machine. The channel for the sliders needs to be squeaky clean as well. Grains of powder in there are devastating and cause, you probably guessed it, primer slider breaking. As does any other kind of debris, brass shavings and the like.

Additional parts I had to order:

- replacement spring for primer slider
- actuator assembly for automatic indexing
- a metric ton of replacment sliders

Actually, quite ok if you don't count the sliders which btw RCBS does replace as anything else free of charge, but unfortunately only 2 for large and 2 for small primers at a time. Maybe I have to buy two primers at a time then as well.

Imagine you sit in your man cave, setup done, boolits in the feeder, powder in the hopper, primers filled, first case in the shell plate. Pull handle, hear snapping sound. And you know you just broke another slider. Your last. Did I mention I live in Switzerland and it takes a good 3 weeks for the parts to arrive after ordering. I will not become tired asking them for replacement and to please send more than just 2 each every time, no one ever cared to comment on that from their side. I went so far to ask them the price for a bag of 100. No reply. It's just super-frustrating..

Up to now I have not found anyone that produces them as aftermarket, working, replacement. Another material would do the trick. Or RCBS selling them by weight..

[dogdoc]

I too like the prospect of 7 die stations but at the end of the day, with all those issues, I will stay with Dillons. The thing about the Dillons is they just plain work without as much fiddle factor as the others I have tried. There is a reason the vast majority of high volume competition shooters use dillon loaders.

[omgb]

I have managed to run over 1500 round through my LNL with only one primer stoppage...caused by powder on the slid base

[dogdoc]

Cannot argue with that record. I don’t think I can claim that on my Dillons

[omgb]

Well, I worked quadruple hard at not having a stopage. The amazing thing is that each pick up was so smooth. I was able to fill 5 primer pick up tubes and run through them 3 times with just that one hitch

[Kenstone]

So after roughly two years I sum up my experience with the press.

The concept seems a good one. The press overall does what it's supposed to do. I don't know if there were shortcuts taken during the development, it was rushed on the market for SHOT or simply needed to save on production cost. Whatever the case, the end user has to pay for the shortcuts. RCBS did a step in the right direction issuing a troubleshooting guide a year after release, but that's only half the way they actually needed to go.

The big achilles heel of the press is the priming system. There is a cam that actuates a slider that picks primers up from the primer tube (pics posted earlier in this thread I think). The sliders are made of plastic, and break sometimes only by looking at them. Way too delicate. These are by far the parts I ordered most as replacements and lost count of how many actually broke. Nothing for a press that is advertised as 600rd an hour machine. The channel for the sliders needs to be squeaky clean as well. Grains of powder in there are devastating and cause, you probably guessed it, primer slider breaking. As does any other kind of debris, brass shavings and the like.

Additional parts I had to order:

- replacement spring for primer slider
- actuator assembly for automatic indexing
- a metric ton of replacment sliders

Actually, quite ok if you don't count the sliders which btw RCBS does replace as anything else free of charge, but unfortunately only 2 for large and 2 for small primers at a time. Maybe I have to buy two primers at a time then as well.

Imagine you sit in your man cave, setup done, boolits in the feeder, powder in the hopper, primers filled, first case in the shell plate. Pull handle, hear snapping sound. And you know you just broke another slider. Your last. Did I mention I live in Switzerland and it takes a good 3 weeks for the parts to arrive after ordering. I will not become tired asking them for replacement and to please send more than just 2 each every time, no one ever cared to comment on that from their side. I went so far to ask them the price for a bag of 100. No reply. It's just super-frustrating..

Up to now I have not found anyone that produces them as aftermarket, working, replacement. Another material would do the trick. Or RCBS selling them by weight..
Thanks for the update, I've wondered if that primer slide problem has been resolved by RCBS or anyone else.
It seems like someone or a user would have come up with a work-around or fix by now.
I haven't looked lately on ebay, but there's a lot of 3D printed parts for loaders out there for sale...maybe some-one's selling a re-engineered printed part.
Kind of glad I bought a Pro 1000 instead, and waiting for Lee to release the new Breech Lock Pro 4000.
:-|

[Taterhead]

Thanks for the update Expat. Sorry that you continue to have trouble.

Us Pro 2000 fans are collectively scratching our heads. APS priming has been extremely trouble-free for me, as has been the entire Pro 2000 press. It just works and I don't fiddle with anything. Unfortunately, the Pro 2000 is obsolete. Thankfully I've accumulated a bunch of spare parts, thanks to RCBS, so it should keep me going for a long time. Thankfully I've only replaced a "return spring plate" so far. Very simple, robust design.

[Mike67]

I'm with you Taterhead. Owned the Pro 2000 since they were first available. Upgraded to auto index three years ago and I use it now more than ever. Still haven't broke anything knock on wood, and intend on using this press until I'm too old to safely reload anymore. RCBS screwed up going away from APS priming in the Pro Chuckers in my opinion. It's the fastest and safest progressive priming system so far designed. I would suspect they will have service parts for the Pro 2000 for several decades.

[GT1]

:(
RCBS has a history of designing progressives that aren't winners, and then trying to sweep them under the rug and forget they ever existed. I expect that to happen with this one also. The Pro 2000 wasn't bad, but the cost killed it from being a total success. No one wanted to buy one for a couple hundred dollars more than a 650, and own a slower more expensive to operate press(If you wanted to run APS).

[Taterhead]

:(
RCBS has a history of designing progressives that aren't winners, and then trying to sweep them under the rug and forget they ever existed. I expect that to happen with this one also. The Pro 2000 wasn't bad, but the cost killed it from being a total success. No one wanted to buy one for a couple hundred dollars more than a 650, and own a slower more expensive to operate press(If you wanted to run APS).

It is no more expensive to prime the Pro 2000 than any other press unless you pony up for pre-loaded strips. Otherwise use any primer and load the strips with the included strip loader. Simpler and quicker than pecking them into primer tubes. Mine fully outfitted for 9 cartridges cost less than a similarly-outfitted 550. Not sure where it is concluded that it was a couple hundred more than a 650.

Caliber conversions are inexpensive since all that's needed is a $20 die plate and, if needed, a $30 shell plate. No need to buy extra powder measures/funnels since it is designed to use the same one in its fixed station 3. Micrometer adjustment is standard.

In recent history, an auto-index machine was about $450 setup for the first caliber after the perpetual RCBS rebates.

[Taterhead]

I'm with you Taterhead. Owned the Pro 2000 since they were first available. Upgraded to auto index three years ago and I use it now more than ever. Still haven't broke anything knock on wood, and intend on using this press until I'm too old to safely reload anymore. RCBS screwed up going away from APS priming in the Pro Chuckers in my opinion. It's the fastest and safest progressive priming system so far designed. I would suspect they will have service parts for the Pro 2000 for several decades.

Mine is auto-index too. Wouldn't have it any other way. Priming has been extremely reliable. In fact, it has retired my hand priming tool. When loading bolt rifle ammo on the single stage, I prime on the Pro 2000. As you know, swapping the shell plate and primer plug assemblies are so quick (another huge advantage to this press: changing over anything leads the league in time and ease). With the die plate removed. I load insert a case in station 1, prime in 2, and let them index around to the bin.