Name a cartridge

[Wolfer]

I'm in the process of building a wildcat cartridge and I haven't decided what to call it.

It started as a 7x57, bored to .338 with a 14" twist.
I ran a 338-06 reamer in till it cleaned up the old shoulder.

Finished case length is 2.233. 56.71 mm

Is it a 34x57. I don't like long names so 338-06 short is out.

Thinking about weighing a case full of black powder and just go with 1800s style. Caliber-powder charge

In cruising different forums I haven't seen where anyone had done this but I'm quite sure someone has. I know of a couple 35x60. 8mm bored to 35 short reamed with 35 Whelen. 8mm case with a long neck.

Come on guys, throw me some ideas.

[Wolfer]

Oddly enough the case held exactly 57 gr of FFFg

[Vann]

338x57 would best describe it. How about 338 Wolf

[M-Tecs]

Money Pit. Unless you can make your own dies you need to be setting down when you price custom dies. Shortened 338-06 dies would be the cheapest.

[Nueces]

May not work for you, but "33 Roberts" or "338 Roberts" immediately came to mind.

[fryboy]

"mine" ( well except i'd say yours but ...lolz )

seeings how many change it just a wee bit AND providing you wanted part of the "old time-y" aspect why not 337-57 ( or 339 etc ) heck if you want your name on it 33 or 34 wolfer ( or whatever your name is , first last middle [shrugz]) and if you really really want brownie points name it after your girl ;)

[Ithaca Gunner]

8.6x57mm.

[swheeler]

.330 Rigby;-) (the .275 Rigby bored to .330)

[Cowboy_Dan]

Or how about .338x2.2"? This formulation has been used before for big game cartridges in imperial units.

[Wolfer]

My last name is Roberts. I'm not sure I can stamp all that on the barrel and keep it straight. I have a B-Square guide but I can do better without it.

Lots of good ideas so far though.

[Hardcast416taylor]

.338 Short Mauser.Robert

[Wolfer]

The reason I picked this combo. I already had 338-06 cases, dies, mold, gas checks, sizer etc. I cast for my 338 win mag so this kept a lot of money out of the money pit. Or rather I could say I had already thrown this money into the pit.

I have a 338-06 but I've put it somewhere safe and now I can't find it.

[Hardcast416taylor]

The reason I picked this combo. I already had 338-06 cases, dies, mold, gas checks, sizer etc. I cast for my 338 win mag so this kept a lot of money out of the money pit. Or rather I could say I had already thrown this money into the pit.

I have a 338-06 but I've put it somewhere safe and now I can't find it.

I`ve made up several .338-06 rifles on the 1917 action. I have one of them, the other I made up and gave to a friend of mine that saved my life once.Robert

[Nueces]

My last name is Roberts. I'm not sure I can stamp all that on the barrel and keep it straight. I have a B-Square guide but I can do better without it.

Lots of good ideas so far though.

Whoa, parallel universe, as Mork might have said. my 338 Roberts idea was in honor of Ned Roberts, who designed the 257 Roberts by necking down the 7 mm Mauser. I think the Universe has spoken!

[Mk42gunner]

.33 Bob, .338 Bob, .34 Bob

It isn't exactly a .257 Roberts or 7x57 case necked up, so it really doesn't need to be linked to those cases for clarity.

A case could be made (bad pun, I know) for it to be named .33x57, there were a few rifles being talked about a few years ago that were the .30-06 and .35 Whelen cut off at x57 case length. Shortening the loading dies and running the reamer in short was basically all that was needed for them.

Robert

[Artful]

I'd either go 338x57 or 338 Roberts

[Bagdadjoe]

34-57 in keeping with BP designations. 30-30, 44-40 etc

[gunarea]

34 mag

[Wolfer]

The little woman is pushing towards the .338 Roberts. I'm not what I call a vain man and don't want anyone to think I'm claiming the glory for it. I'm sure it's been done before. I don't expect this cartridge to do anything that many others won't do. I just didn't have the parts laying around to build those.

Im partial to the black powder designation 34-57, my dads nickname was bob so I like 34 Bob.

If I knew of someone that already had one then I would probably call it what ever they called theirs.
If it won't shoot I'll call it no good.

[Wolfer]

Well, I got 10 cases made last night after doing a pound cast. I wanted the end of my brass as close to the end of the chamber as I could. The pound cast showed I could be as long as 2.248 so I cut my cutter at 2.241

Using 338 federal data I started at 20 gr of 2400 for 1750 fps. Worked up to 25 gr which got me 2015 fps.
I was just shooting for velocity and to fire form some cases. Target was 30 yds, off the hood of the truck with no sandbags. After adjusting the scope and getting the velocity I wanted the last 4 shots left no paper between them. I'll get the stock bedded and shoot off the bench at 100 and 200 as soon as I get a chance.

My goal was to be able to shoot a soft boolit ( bhn 10 ) to around 2000 fps accurately. I have trouble with this in my 10" twist guns.
This is about all the recoil I want in a light handy rifle. Probably about equal to a 300 savage. I'm not recoil sensitive but I've grown to like shooting my 311041 at 1800 fps.

[oldblinddog]

There is already a .338 X 57. It is the 8 x 57 necked up. It used to be a standard item for Redding (dies) and Clymer (chamber reamer). It also has been known as the .33-50 (the 50 may have been the charge weight, powder not specified) and .33 Mauser. I built one back in the 90's on a Mauser action. Sadly, real life events overtook me and I didn't have it long enough to gain much real experience with it. Now that the .338-06 is a standard cartridge, there isn't much need for that sort of thing. If you are using one of the "intermediate" length Yugoslavian Mausers like I did, it is perfect for that and a better cartridge than the .338 Federal.

[RPRNY]

34 Mauser.

[303Guy]

I like 338 Roberts. 338-57 works for me too and so does 8.6x57 or maybe 8.6 Roberts. What would the smokeless powder capacity be for some arbitrary suitable powder?

And photo's? We need photo's you know! :mrgreen:

[oldblinddog]

I'm putting together another .338-06 (the standard, instead of the a.i. this time) but I seriously considered the .33 Mauser again. May still do it. In the Handloader article about this wildcat, IMR-4064 was the powder on which the author speculated the "50 grs" was the load. This same article can be found in "Wildcat Cartridges" http://www.amazon.com/Wildcat-Cartridges-1-2-Combo/dp/999713480X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445665107&sr=8-1&keywords=Wildcat+cartridges

[Good Cheer]

You're in Missouri.
How about the .33 Showme?

[UBER7MM]

Chuck Hawks has an article on his website on the 338x57. He calls it the 338 O'Connor.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_OConnor.htm

[Wolfer]

The 338 O,Conner uses the standard 7x57 case necked up to .338
If I'm not mistaken the 33 Mauser uses 8x57 case necked up to .338
The shoulder is farther forward on an 8mm than it is on a 7 mm

My cartridge is actually a 338-06 shortened by .259

Against the wishes of my family who all vote for 338 roberts I've pretty much decided to call it a 34-57 or maybe 34-57 Roberts
I find it odd that the case is 57mm long but it also holds exactly 57 gr of FFFg

Ive been making cases and shooting some. Hopefully this weekend I'll get to set the crony up and wring out a few loads. Perhaps even get some pictures. It seems my time is never my own.
Cases for this are pretty easy to make. I've been first time firing them with lighter loads of unique. Mostly 11 gr, I don't know what their running but their very accurate and pleasant to shoot.
25 gr of 2400 or 44 gr of LVR is not so pleasant.
Woody Roberts

[oldblinddog]

If I'm not mistaken the 33 Mauser uses 8x57 case necked up to .338

Woody Roberts

Yep, that's it.


There is already a .338 X 57. It is the 8 x 57 necked up. It used to be a standard item for Redding (dies) and Clymer (chamber reamer). It also has been known as the .33-50 (the 50 may have been the charge weight, powder not specified) and .33 Mauser. I built one back in the 90's on a Mauser action. Sadly, real life events overtook me and I didn't have it long enough to gain much real experience with it. Now that the .338-06 is a standard cartridge, there isn't much need for that sort of thing. If you are using one of the "intermediate" length Yugoslavian Mausers like I did, it is perfect for that and a better cartridge than the .338 Federal.

[mozeppa]

call it a black '57 chevy

[725]

Have you shot this thing yet?

[Wolfer]

I started shooting it before I had the stock completed. I cut a case short, fire formed it and used it to make a pound cast using Goodsteel's method. This told me what the maximum case length could be. I wanted my case to end up as close to the actual end of my chamber or the beginning of the leade as was safe. This keeps lead from compressing back into this crack upon firing.

Since the formed cases are a little round in the corners of the shoulder/neck area I shoot them with lite loads to form them out.
I guess I've shot around 50 rds so far. At first the gun was just in the stock. Groups were not anything to talk about. Mild to wild they ran about 4" at 100 yds. I bedded the action but it didn't really help much.

When i bedded the barrel all the way out things seem to improve drastically. But I've only shot 6 shots at 50 yds prone. The wind was blowing pretty hard and I didn't feel I could get reliable info under these conditions.
I can't recall ever having a military barrel in a sporter stock that would shoot good free floated.

I cut my crown on my 1894 Porter machine works lathe. I had my doubts about it but thought I would shoot it before going my usual route of a carriage bolt and valve grinding compound. I've had excellent results with this method but I wanted to change one thing at a time.

[nockhunter]

34 Roberts, 8.58x57, 8.58 Mauser, 8.6x57 are my votes.

Mike

[Wolfer]

Here are a couple pics. The stock just has two coats on and I just wiped cold blue on the barrel. Deer season will be here in two weeks and i dont have time to blue it.

The boolits i had cast are too small and too soft. The target is representive of the way it shoots. Its common to get three shots close but keep shooting and it will open to around 3" or a little smaller. Ill beagle my mold and cast up some 50-50 which should let me push the velocity up.

152310
152309

[nekshot]

I can't open the pics Wolfer but thats ok as I am sure I'll get to see it one of these days! Good to see your dream come complete. You could call it a Billy Long Special!!! lol(a laugh for locals only)

[Wolfer]

First time I'm down that way I'll drop by and show it to you.
I always have a devil of a time with pictures

[Wolfer]

152320152321

Did this work better?

[Wolfer]

It crossed my mind to draw first blood with it a few minutes ago. Looked out the back window and saw a ground hog about 75 yds down in the field. This particular whistle pig lives down by my bee hives and never bothers anything.

Since there wasn't any question that I could close the deal I let him go on about his business.
Now if I have one digging holes in my hayfield its a different story.

[oldblinddog]

I like the cartridge. Is that the Lee 220 gr?

[UBER7MM]

Wolfer,

I like the 1:14" twist and .338" concept. Nice looking rifle too. What is your process for cartridge loading? Did you have custom dies made?

[nekshot]

Very nice!! I have a secret love affair with the 338 and 375 bores but don't have any!

[mr surveyor]

152320152321

Did this work better?


well, having seen a picture now, I think that's the 34 WOLFER ... but I could be mistaken


jd

[Wolfer]

Wolfer,

I like the 1:14" twist and .338" concept. Nice looking rifle too. What is your process for cartridge loading? Did you have custom dies made?

No. I cut about .265 off of a set of 338-06 dies I had. If I had built a 338 O,Connor the dies would never touch the body until at the rear. Hence I cut my chamber with a 338-06 reamer until it just cleaned up the 7x57 shoulder.

After a pound cast I could see that my cases couldn't be longer than 2.248
I coat a 35 Whelen case with Imperial sizing die wax and run it into the shortened 338-06 die.
I have my calipers set a 2.241 With a new sharpie I mark the neck just longer than the calipers.
I cut the excess neck off with a tubing cutter ( about 1/4" ) After this I run them back into the die to open the case back up. The tubing cutter rolls it in.

Using a Lee case length gauge for a 338 win mag. I cut the body off a little shorter and drilled a small hole up the center. Turning the bit around backwards I used JB weld to hold it it the hole.
After getting a pound cast I could now cut the bit off and grind to the proper length.
In this case I cut it at 2.240 Some of the first heavy loads stretched the neck up into the leade so I cut it back a little and fire form with a moderate load and re trim.

I can make a couple cases in the time it takes me to type this. It's not as difficult as I make it sound.

The neck ends up being around .420 long. Case capacity is slightly more than a 338 federal.

Old blind dog
Yes it is the Lee 220 gr. with the gas check very near the bottom of the neck the case just covers the last lube grove and the rifling barely engraves the nose.

My throat mics at .342 My sizer is honed to .340 My boolits I had cast are .339 The gas check will be .340 but the boolit is untouched. My alloy is also very soft. 1 WW- 2 lead bhn of 10
Accuracy up to around 1700 is useable. Faster than that it's not.

Ive mixed up some 50-50+2% and I'll beagle my mold. Maybe tonight.

Im quite comfortable going deer hunting with this setup as is but I know it's capable of doing better.

Ive pushed these boolits to around 2300 fps with LVR but all of them won't be on the target.
Im not sure what this little gun weighs but it's not enough for these loads.
I have some 180 noslers and some 200 gr Speer around here somewhere but I may never try them. I have a 338 win mag if I need more power.

NOE has a 201 gr that I would like to try but their showing 0 in stock. I'm keeping my eyes open for a 200 gr ranch dog mold also.

My buddy shot a coyote with these Lee boolits at this same velocity with my 338 mag. I'm completely confident they will work on a deer.

Sorry about the rambling.
Woody Roberts

[exile]

No. I cut about .265 off of a set of 338-06 dies I had. If I had built a 338 O,Connor the dies would never touch the body until at the rear. Hence I cut my chamber with a 338-06 reamer until it just cleaned up the 7x57 shoulder.

After a pound cast I could see that my cases couldn't be longer than 2.248
I coat a 35 Whelen case with Imperial sizing die wax and run it into the shortened 338-06 die.
I have my calipers set a 2.241 With a new sharpie I mark the neck just longer than the calipers.
I cut the excess neck off with a tubing cutter ( about 1/4" ) After this I run them back into the die to open the case back up. The tubing cutter rolls it in.

Using a Lee case length gauge for a 338 win mag. I cut the body off a little shorter and drilled a small hole up the center. Turning the bit around backwards I used JB weld to hold it it the hole.
After getting a pound cast I could now cut the bit off and grind to the proper length.
In this case I cut it at 2.240 Some of the first heavy loads stretched the neck up into the leade so I cut it back a little and fire form with a moderate load and re trim.

I can make a couple cases in the time it takes me to type this. It's not as difficult as I make it sound.

The neck ends up being around .420 long. Case capacity is slightly more than a 338 federal.

Old blind dog
Yes it is the Lee 220 gr. with the gas check very near the bottom of the neck the case just covers the last lube grove and the rifling barely engraves the nose.

My throat mics at .342 My sizer is honed to .340 My boolits I had cast are .339 The gas check will be .340 but the boolit is untouched. My alloy is also very soft. 1 WW- 2 lead bhn of 10
Accuracy up to around 1700 is useable. Faster than that it's not.

Ive mixed up some 50-50+2% and I'll beagle my mold. Maybe tonight.

Im quite comfortable going deer hunting with this setup as is but I know it's capable of doing better.

Ive pushed these boolits to around 2300 fps with LVR but all of them won't be on the target.
Im not sure what this little gun weighs but it's not enough for these loads.
I have some 180 noslers and some 200 gr Speer around here somewhere but I may never try them. I have a 338 win mag if I need more power.

NOE has a 201 gr that I would like to try but their showing 0 in stock. I'm keeping my eyes open for a 200 gr ranch dog mold also.

My buddy shot a coyote with these Lee boolits at this same velocity with my 338 mag. I'm completely confident they will work on a deer.

Sorry about the rambling.
Woody Roberts

How about ".338 Lykos". Lykos being Greek for wolf.

[exile]

No. I cut about .265 off of a set of 338-06 dies I had. If I had built a 338 O,Connor the dies would never touch the body until at the rear. Hence I cut my chamber with a 338-06 reamer until it just cleaned up the 7x57 shoulder.

After a pound cast I could see that my cases couldn't be longer than 2.248
I coat a 35 Whelen case with Imperial sizing die wax and run it into the shortened 338-06 die.
I have my calipers set a 2.241 With a new sharpie I mark the neck just longer than the calipers.
I cut the excess neck off with a tubing cutter ( about 1/4" ) After this I run them back into the die to open the case back up. The tubing cutter rolls it in.

Using a Lee case length gauge for a 338 win mag. I cut the body off a little shorter and drilled a small hole up the center. Turning the bit around backwards I used JB weld to hold it it the hole.
After getting a pound cast I could now cut the bit off and grind to the proper length.
In this case I cut it at 2.240 Some of the first heavy loads stretched the neck up into the leade so I cut it back a little and fire form with a moderate load and re trim.

I can make a couple cases in the time it takes me to type this. It's not as difficult as I make it sound.

The neck ends up being around .420 long. Case capacity is slightly more than a 338 federal.

Old blind dog
Yes it is the Lee 220 gr. with the gas check very near the bottom of the neck the case just covers the last lube grove and the rifling barely engraves the nose.

My throat mics at .342 My sizer is honed to .340 My boolits I had cast are .339 The gas check will be .340 but the boolit is untouched. My alloy is also very soft. 1 WW- 2 lead bhn of 10
Accuracy up to around 1700 is useable. Faster than that it's not.

Ive mixed up some 50-50+2% and I'll beagle my mold. Maybe tonight.

Im quite comfortable going deer hunting with this setup as is but I know it's capable of doing better.

Ive pushed these boolits to around 2300 fps with LVR but all of them won't be on the target.
Im not sure what this little gun weighs but it's not enough for these loads.
I have some 180 noslers and some 200 gr Speer around here somewhere but I may never try them. I have a 338 win mag if I need more power.

NOE has a 201 gr that I would like to try but their showing 0 in stock. I'm keeping my eyes open for a 200 gr ranch dog mold also.

My buddy shot a coyote with these Lee boolits at this same velocity with my 338 mag. I'm completely confident they will work on a deer.

Sorry about the rambling.
Woody Roberts

How about ".338 Lykos" Lykos being Greek for wolf.

[exile]

Sorry about the correction. So, I think "Lycos" is correct, but you could look it up.

exile

[exile]

No. I cut about .265 off of a set of 338-06 dies I had. If I had built a 338 O,Connor the dies would never touch the body until at the rear. Hence I cut my chamber with a 338-06 reamer until it just cleaned up the 7x57 shoulder.

After a pound cast I could see that my cases couldn't be longer than 2.248
I coat a 35 Whelen case with Imperial sizing die wax and run it into the shortened 338-06 die.
I have my calipers set a 2.241 With a new sharpie I mark the neck just longer than the calipers.
I cut the excess neck off with a tubing cutter ( about 1/4" ) After this I run them back into the die to open the case back up. The tubing cutter rolls it in.

Using a Lee case length gauge for a 338 win mag. I cut the body off a little shorter and drilled a small hole up the center. Turning the bit around backwards I used JB weld to hold it it the hole.
After getting a pound cast I could now cut the bit off and grind to the proper length.
In this case I cut it at 2.240 Some of the first heavy loads stretched the neck up into the leade so I cut it back a little and fire form with a moderate load and re trim.

I can make a couple cases in the time it takes me to type this. It's not as difficult as I make it sound.

The neck ends up being around .420 long. Case capacity is slightly more than a 338 federal.

Old blind dog
Yes it is the Lee 220 gr. with the gas check very near the bottom of the neck the case just covers the last lube grove and the rifling barely engraves the nose.

My throat mics at .342 My sizer is honed to .340 My boolits I had cast are .339 The gas check will be .340 but the boolit is untouched. My alloy is also very soft. 1 WW- 2 lead bhn of 10
Accuracy up to around 1700 is useable. Faster than that it's not.

Ive mixed up some 50-50+2% and I'll beagle my mold. Maybe tonight.

Im quite comfortable going deer hunting with this setup as is but I know it's capable of doing better.

Ive pushed these boolits to around 2300 fps with LVR but all of them won't be on the target.
Im not sure what this little gun weighs but it's not enough for these loads.
I have some 180 noslers and some 200 gr Speer around here somewhere but I may never try them. I have a 338 win mag if I need more power.

NOE has a 201 gr that I would like to try but their showing 0 in stock. I'm keeping my eyes open for a 200 gr ranch dog mold also.

My buddy shot a coyote with these Lee boolits at this same velocity with my 338 mag. I'm completely confident they will work on a deer.

Sorry about the rambling.
Woody Roberts

How about ".338 Lykos" Lykos being Greek for wolf.

[UBER7MM]

".338 Lykos" Plus one!

[oldblinddog]

Accurate will make that same 200 gr if it's the copy of the Lyman. I have the 250 gr version, 33889.

Off topic but a good deer load in your .338 WM is 45 gr of IMR 4198 under that Speer bullet ( which is made for deer, btw) for about 2400 fps. I got this load right out of a DuPont handout years ago. Max is 47 gr. It absolutely hammers deer. Every one has been DRT!

[Wolfer]

For whatever reason I just discovered the 30XCB and 35XCB threads in the special projects section.
I was aware of the XCB line but didn't know much about them.

It appears to me that what I have is very close to a 34XCB as a cartridge but my rifle is certainly not in the same class.