Lead at the indoor range.

[bullpen7979]

Well, joined an indoor range, and one of the guys casually told me that I should not be shooting lead. Already paid my range fee for the year, so I am currently exploring was to cut down the risk to myself and of course to others.

I have heard of powder coating and I'm not sure if this would cut down on the smoke and see about keeping my chosen projectile and it's after effects on the down low and as safe as possible. I have done enough research to at least surmise that the smoke emitted has a lot to do with the lube.

I would appreciate any wisdom on the matter of how to make the boolits I plan to continue using as safe as possible.

Thanks CB crew, and sorry for the multiple posts today.

Many regards for your sharing you experience;
Bull

[tazman]

By going with powder coating you would eliminate almost all your smoke. I think you would also eliminate the possibility of getting lead in the air at the range, at least if you completely coat the boolit bases.
It should be worth the try.

[NavyVet1959]

The smoke is from the powder and the lube. There's not really any risk shooting lead. The people who make these rules don't understand that though. They also don't realize that some jacketed bullets have an exposed lead base, so if they are so concerned with the flame hitting the base of the bullet, those also would not be allowed. Of course, you won't know if the ammo that you use has that sort of bullet in it unless you disassemble the ammo. Are they going to disassemble ever piece of ammo that walks through their door?

If they want to be a pain about it, then powder coat it one of the copper colors so that if they happen to glance at it, they'll think that it is jacketed. :)

[Love Life]

Was it just some random shooter, or was it somebody with authority? Is it an actual rule of the range?

[JSnover]

As I understood the problem of airborne lead at indoor ranges, most if not all of it was caused by lead styphnate priming compound.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

+1 JS
plus not eating while shooting or smoking so you don;t take your nasty hands and touch something that will then go INTO you belly , then blood, !!! That is way faster than trying to suck DUST into your lungs!!!

60's-mid 80's the rule for how air was moved inside those building was an issue there should be like a vacuum to suck that stuff out from the shooters stations.

[osteodoc08]

While lead concerns are valid, the source is the primer, not the boolit. The smoke you see is more from powder and lube, but since it is "different", people automatically assume you are a "danger". Most indoor ranges I've seen typically only allow factory ammo. YMMV.

[tazman]

The indoor range I frequent allows shooters to use anything except magnum, shotgun shells, black powder, or steel core loads. They even allow rifles there in pistol calibers(9mm,38 special, 40s&w, 22lr).
I have been shooting cast there for a couple of years with no issues. I have had comments about smokey loads(alox coated), but no one has suggested I shouldn't shoot them there.
Nice friendly place.

[stu1ritter]

Sounds like a range without proper air handling equipment in place. As mentioned above, it's the primer mainly.
Stu

[dudel]

Don't know about old indoor ranges; but I know of new three ranges in Atlanta area that took over a year to open due to EPA requirements. There were airflow and filtration issues, that required air to be filtered to a specific point, and the volume of clean air had to replenish the area every x minutes. The backstop needed a water misting system to keep dust down from projectile impact on the backstop. The projectiles in the backstop had to be recovered with automated machinery (In one case, a small conveyor belt moved lead out of the building into a 55 gallon drum just outside the building).

I also remember an old range, that had poor lighting and air handling. It was always smoky inside, you could watch laser traces all the time. You'd get splash back from the target hangers. After a few minutes you'd get a strange taste in your mouth. Left that place and never returned. Two headed shooters should have been a clue!

That said, I much prefer an open air range. If I end up shooting indoors, I use one that has an EPA certification or I shoot when the crowds aren't there. I tend to use mostly plated projectiles when indoors for full lead coverage. There is still the issue of primer residue; but anything I can do to reduce lead exposure is worth while (to me).

[w30wcf]

Hmmmm.....they must not allow .22's to be used either?!In addition to the good info already mentioned, the most toxic levels of lead at an indoor range is what goes into the air when cleaning out the backstop.

[bedbugbilly]

The indoor ranges that I shoot at it has never been a problem - but they have excellent ventilation systems. I'm not downplaying "lead poisoning" but some folks carry it way too far IMHO. But then I grew up in an era of when we drank from garden hoses and ran barefoot through cow pies in the barnyard.

First . . I'd be checking just what the range rules are. if the person who spoke to you is in charge . . then I'd be questioning him more. If he isn't, then I'd certainly "by-pass" him and find out from whoever is in charge. Like most ranges, there are always those who are "self-appointed authorities".

Tazman has a great suggestion on the coating. I don't do it and probably never will but it might be the solution for you.

[RedHawk357Mag]

I think I would get the range rules and go from there. Surprised that wasn't explained in painful detail before they allowed you to shoot. Most ranges really frown on the steel core stuff and make zero bones about letting you know that. I use to shoot at a range in Puyallup WA that throughly briefed no steel or exposed lead. Once you get the owners rules than you can implement whatever changes you need. My beef with the indoor ranges is some folks that cross the threshold of the ranges shouldn't be allowed to procreate nor handle sharp objects. It won't take long before you see something that will cause your scrotum to pull up inside for cover.

[dudel]

My beef with the indoor ranges is some folks that cross the threshold of the ranges shouldn't be allowed to procreate nor handle sharp objects. It won't take long before you see something that will cause your scrotum to pull up inside for cover.

+1! I was at one range that wisely had installed bulletproof glass as dividers between the lane stations. Went there one day, and one of the dividers was all cracked and crazed. Someone had an AD into the divider. They ejected her from the range and charged her for the divider replacement. It stayed around for a while as a reminder to be safe. I leave when the crazies show up.

[NavyVet1959]

+1! I was at one range that wisely had installed bulletproof glass as dividers between the lane stations. Went there one day, and one of the dividers was all cracked and crazed. Someone had an AD into the divider. They ejected her from the range and charged her for the divider replacement. It stayed around for a while as a reminder to be safe. I leave when the crazies show up.

Seems like an overly expensive divider. Concrete or steel would have been a LOT cheaper and would have withstood damage with only minimal cosmetic damage in most cases.

[EMC45]

I've seen where indoor ranges will post "No Cast Ammo" for fear of lead, but will have rimfire matches through the week. That makes sense.......

[NavyVet1959]

Kind of makes you want to lube up some jacketed rounds and use blackpowder. http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/evil-grin-64w.gif

[dudel]

I've seen where indoor ranges will post "No Cast Ammo" for fear of lead, but will have rimfire matches through the week. That makes sense.......

Tell them it's swaged! :bigsmyl2:

Don

[Echo]

+1 JS
plus not eating while shooting or smoking so you don;t take your nasty hands and touch something that will then go INTO you belly , then blood, !!! That is way faster than trying to suck DUST into your lungs!!!

60's-mid 80's the rule for how air was moved inside those building was an issue there should be like a vacuum to suck that stuff out from the shooters stations.
Air flow should be from shooting station to target. A big exhaust fan back in there will handle all the lead styphanate in the air.

[bullpen7979]

Good info all; the .22 question did cross my mind as I left. I think one of the newer guys was the one who let me know. I went the very next day and shot same as I always have and no one had an issue with it. I might have to try the powder coating thing just as a backup plan.

Thanks to all of you folks. This forum rocks.

[DocSavage]

One range I go to allows anything short of 50 BMG,their air circulation system is quite good as you can see the smoke being pulled out of the range. Filters are changed every 90 days I believe.

[ohshooter]

For a fun night one time we did BP pistol poker shoot, that filled the place up with smoke quick. We produced more smoke then the fan could suck out.

[sharpshooter3040]

The biggest danger in an indoor range is the lead caused by the priming compound not the boolit. A lot of research has gone into this.

[sharpshooter3040]

I powder coat mine with mica dust to aid in handling while reloading. Jacketed bullet loads still create lead vapor. Proper ventilation is the only safer alternative

[mongoose33]

I bought some powder from Smoke which is copper-colored. One reason was to emulate a FMJ bullet.

I originally started PC'ing because of the smoke from the lube which, in certain conditions, was significant--so much so in one case that it obscured the target in a timed event. Harder to hit a target you cannot see, and I was unable to summon the Force to help. ;)

PC means no more smoke than FMJ.

Here's what the PC looks like:

151547151548

In the left pic, the 3rd and 5th boolits from left are PC'd; the rest are FMJ. You can see the boolits by themselves in the second pic.

[NavyVet1959]

I'm thinking a bit of cayenne powder added to the bullet lube to make it a bit irritating for those who complain... :)

[flyingmonkey35]

Powder coating has no more smoke then any other plated bullet.

My indoor range loves my pc loads. They don't see a difference.

I save my Smokeys for out door shooting or for kids.

I keep a few 45 colt cowboy loads just for the kids who show up.

230 grain round nose cast / lubed on 35 grains of fff black powder.

Now that's a smoker.

[Leadmelter]

Is there some documentation about the source of lead as being the primer?
So much misinformation about lead and the exposure while shooting.
Leadmelter
MI

[lwknight]

I'm thinking a bit of cayenne powder added to the bullet lube to make it a bit irritating for those who complain... :)
That is just demented and I love it!! LOL!

[NavyVet1959]

That is just demented and I love it!! LOL!

Maybe go with a lard based lube so it will smell really good. Cajun shooting?

[stu1ritter]

I bought some powder from Smoke which is copper-colored. One reason was to emulate a FMJ bullet.

I originally started PC'ing because of the smoke from the lube which, in certain conditions, was significant--so much so in one case that it obscured the target in a timed event. Harder to hit a target you cannot see, and I was unable to summon the Force to help. ;)

SNIP


One of the skills of the outdoor bullseye shooter when shooting the distinguished leg match, back in the day of the 1911, when using military ball ammo, was the ability to shoot through the smoke. Unless there was a good breeze the firing line would be a cloud of smoke after the first round in either timed or rapid fire and you counted on being able to put the 1911 back on your "table" (muscle memory where the gun belonged at your aim point) and continue looking at the sights and pull the trigger. It is really something else to shoot a 100 5X through a cloud of smoke in timed and rapid never really seeing the target after the 1st round.

Stu

[dondiego]

The indoor range that I shot at last winter didn't allow jacketed bullets due to the possibility of jacket pieces flying back to the firing line.

[tazman]

The indoor range that I shot at last winter didn't allow jacketed bullets due to the possibility of jacket pieces flying back to the firing line.

I have actually been struck by rebounding bullet pieces a couple of times. Small pieces that didn't leave a mark but they still reached me.

I agree about the source of the lead at indoor ranges being mostly from primers. There still may be some from gas cutting from poorly fitting boolits. This info doesn't solve the OP's problem unless the range managers buy into it. They may not ever change their minds.
Powder coating to hide the lead either as a disguise or just as a cover/sealant would do the job for him as well as eliminate the lube smoke.

[lwknight]

I'm inclined toward the don't ask don't tell mindset. However you can't hide the smoke from the lube and they will know. Powder coating seems like a good idea if it does not give smoke signals to give away your position.
Not very likely that someone will actually examine you ammo unless they are just super weird.
If I can find the article I read about testing the lead base with magicians flash paper attached I will post it.
Basically, the flash paper did not ignite meaning that there is not enough heat on the bullet to vaporize any lead.