M1

[tbierley]

I have just started back shooting CMP matches. I have a question I getting ready to get a new M1. It is going to be a Special Service grade should it in 30 06 or 308.

[tigweldit]

tbierley, I've owned 4 M1's so far. Three were '06 and one 308. All the '06's out shot the 308,with the H&R being the most accurate. But this is just my experience. One CMP shooting buddy swore by the 308, and he was hard to beat at the matches. I like the Garands better in '06 because you don't need a spacer block in the action, just one more part to go wrong. Congrats on shooting the CMP matches,good times with good people and great guns.

[goryshaw]

.30-06, you can't shoot .308 in as issued matches. Local matches probably won't care, but if you go to CMP games you'll be out of competition.

[tbierley]

I have been thinking and I am going to get it in 308. So I can shoot as-issue matches.

[Ken in Iowa]

My dad used a 308 for many years. No spacer block was needed.

[merlin101]

I have been thinking and I am going to get it in 308. So I can shoot as-issue matches.

I think you missed this post
".30-06, you can't shoot .308 in as issued matches. Local matches probably won't care, but if you go to CMP games you'll be out of competition."

[country gent]

The garand matches require a rack grade gun, this means 30-06 caliber standard wood and pieces parts. Alot will buy the criterion service rifle barrel and fit it then mix and match parts for what they want. Last I knew in the garand matches bedding wasnt allowed either, stocks and actions are mated for fit also. I have a 308 garand ( douglas medium heavy barrel 1-10 twist 4 groove) It feeds and functions fine without the spacer block. The spacer block does keep a clip of 30-06 from being inserted and wedged into the 308 chamber though. I would get the 30-06 work up a service rifle match duplication load and not look back. It will allow the most number of matches for the rifle to be used in. Get good solid zeros for 100-600 yds and let the rifle do the work.

[Gunor]

I wish I keep the 308 case I fire formed to 30'06 in a M-1.

[Gtek]

One BIG thing to remember if you have a 308 with no block. If you/someone were to load a clip of 30-06 in a 308 chambered rifle your life could change forever. The 06 cartridge will shoulder before the forward returning bolt reaches the firing pin retraction bridge in receiver. THE WEAPON WILL BE OUT OF BATTERY AND POTENTIAL FOR AN INERTIA FIRE! Twenty dollars seems very cheap to avoid this possibility, also it is a block and it does nothing but block. Over the years I have seen a few that were a little fat and needed some light fitting, other than that fit and done.

[Mauser48]

If you want to shoot in the service rifle category get the 30-06. If you want to shoot in the match category get the 308. The problem with the match category is that you are competing against guys with some wicked AR's that just cant be beat with a garand. So if you really want to compete get the 30-06. Its also nice to have the gun in the original caliber.

[georgerkahn]

Mauser48's words could not have been said better, imho! I have a very few M1's -- all in '06; one addendum which may be germane is you're not shooting "'30-'06" ammunition, necessarily, in the M1! The M1 Garand needs ammunition specifically loaded for this firearm. (A friend, retired police, put some brand new factory '06 ammo in his brand new to him WWII vintage Garand, and his fourth shot was all she wrote! The op-rod got bent so badly a replacement was needed to restore function. And, he was lucky! Just a friendly note, should you go for the M1 '06 -- a great choice -- make sure your ammo is appropriate for it.)
geo

[OptimusPanda]

For me half the charm of owning an M1 is that long '06 case. Since you'd be loading specific ammo for it anyway, you might as well do it in the original chambering.

[tbierley]

Well I went to the South Store last week and got a Service Grade. Its a Springfield with a 3-55 SA barrel with 2TE and 0+MW it came in a CMP stock. I installed a set of NM sights on it and 7 coats of True-oil on it.

[bob208]

why can a 308 not be used in as issued matches? after all the navy used them in 308. after the army went to the m14.

[rondog]

IMO, an M1 in .308 is sacrilege, kinda like an Enfield in .308. Just because they were made and issued doesn't make it OK to me. Just MY opinion only! M1's should be .30-06, Enfield's should be .303. Yet I own a 9mm 1911..... What the hell's wrong with me.....

[tbierley]

My is in 30/06.

[VintageRifle]

The US Rifle Cal 30 M1 was not originally chambered in 308. It was chambered in 30-06. 308 is not allowed in as-issued Garand matches.

National match sights are not legal for as-issued Garand matches.

4.2.2 As-Issued M1 Garand

The rifle must be a Caliber .30 U. S. M1 Garand rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces and be in as-issued condition. A Caliber .30 M1941 Johnson rifle or a U.S. Carbine Caliber .30 M1 may be fired in matches designated as M1 Garand matches.

x Rifles must be as issued by the U.S. Armed Forces, with standard stock and sights.

x Trigger pulls may not be less than 4.5 lbs., except that the M1941 Johnson may have a trigger pull of not less than 3.5 lbs.

x National Match (NM) Garands with synthetic bedding or NM sights may not be used. NM rifles with no synthetic bedding or no NM sights or other rifles with NM operating rods or NM gas cylinders may be used.

x The use of shims made of any material in the action and barrel bedding areas of the stock is prohibited.

x As-issued M1 Garands must be chambered for the .30-06 cartridge. No rifles chambered for the 7.62mm NATO (.308) cartridge may be used.

x M1C and M1D Garands, with telescopes detached, are considered as-issued M1 Garands, provided that they comply with other requirements for As-Issued M1 Garands. Cheek pads may not be used on these or other M1 Garands.

x M1 Garand or M1941 Johnson rifles may not weigh more than 9.75 lbs. M1 Carbines may not weigh more than 6.1 lbs.

[nekshot]

that is a nice looking rifle. My son in his heart wants one sooo bad but he is in college and will have to continue to dream!

[Mauser48]

Well I went to the South Store last week and got a Service Grade. Its a Springfield with a 3-55 SA barrel with 2TE and 0+MW it came in a CMP stock. I installed a set of NM sights on it and 7 coats of True-oil on it.

Very nice. Perfect to compete with. Yes the sights will need to be replaced for the service rifle category but not a big deal.

[georgerkahn]

VintageRifle's quote (Post #17) (thank you!) piqued my curiosity, 'specially with words, "as issued". I have an M! Garand made by Petrro Beretta in Rome, Italy. So, this is "legal" for as-issued Garand matches? (It is 100% original, not modified at all.)
geo

[tbierley]

I put the sights on it to are how it shoots. I am using JBweld to make my issue more like the NM sights. I still have to file down the front sight it shoots high at 200 yards. 23 clicks is to much.

[lefty o]

bottom the rear sight out, click it up about 10 clicks. try 200yds again. raising the rear sight makes the rifle shoot higher, as will filing down the front sight.

[tbierley]

Yes you are right but my other rifle you use 12 clicks for 200 yards. This rifle I had to use 23 clicks to zero at 200 yards. I checked the height of the front sights the one is taller by 008 than the other. So I am going to file it down to match the other.

[rondog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't assume my Garand's sights were correct when I got it. So I shot it and adjusted the elevation until it was dead on at 100 yds, then loosened the screw on the elevation knob and set it to 100, then tightened the screw. Shoots great now.

[tbierley]

Yes sir you are right you set your sights at any range you would. Myself I count the clicks from bottom. I have index card taped to the stock with clicks for any given range and type of loads I am shooting.

[NuJudge]

Get a cleaning rod guide for it, a combination tool and a chamber brush. Some of the combination tools have a brush on them. Various surplus vendors can supply these things:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/cleaningrodmuzzleguidedeweym1.aspx
http://www.fulton-armory.com/combotoolwchamberbrushm3a1.aspx

Consider getting a gas cylinder wrench or at least clamp the rifle in a non-marring vise if you are going to take the gas plug out. Not doing so risks loosening the gas cylinder on its splines, which will make it shoot a lot worse:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/gascylinderwrenchgarand.aspx

Beware of the loose-ammo-in-a-can that CMP has been selling, as there frequently are a few rounds of ancient and/or foreign corrosive in it. If you shoot any corrosive rounds, you'll have to do a much more detailed cleaning using a water-based solvent, or you'll have rust.
http://estore.thecmp.org/store/catalog/catalog.aspx?pg=product&ID=4C3006X000-200P&item=&sfv=&cat=AMC&desc=&udc=&mct=&vndr=&ba=&pmin=&pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=

Don't take your rifle out of the stock unless you have to. Doing such puts wear on the wood bedding and on the clamping mechanism in the trigger group. If you have the Devil's own time closing the trigger guard, that's better for accuracy.

People are sometimes paying over $1 for a Garand clip these days. Don't pay that. Ask around. Someone at your club will have a mess of them. People at my club used to throw them away. I used to dig them out.

[Scharfschuetze]

Good points by NuJudge.

Some accessories and combo tools that will make cleaning your Garand a snap. The blue bar on the right is a gas cylinder bar that unifies the barrel to the gas cylinder when unscrewing the gas cylinder plug with the combo tool on the left that is attached to the cleaning rod segment. The black device in the center is a rod guide that centers the cleaning rod in the bore to prevent wear to the crown of the barrel. The other devices are combo tools and a broken case extractor of different designs that were issued throughout the service life of the Garand.

[mac1911]

I bet your new cmp wood stock does not fit correctly. Needing 23 clicks up I not good.

There is a accuracy and targeting test for the M1.
Simple version.
Target: 3.5" wide x 5" tall rectangle , with a 1.5" half bull centered.
Distance 1000"
Sight setting: Front centered. Rear 10 clicks up, rear windage centered.
AIM at the half bull with front sight on bottom flat portion of the bull.
The process is 3 warm up shots...then 5 consecutive shots. Must fall with in the 3x5 rectangle and those 5 shots must be inside a 1.77" group. Process allows 2 clicks +/- for elevation correction and front sight for windage to get the group inside the box. No filing of the sights are allowed to get the rifle to pass. It goes back through the arsenal to find other problems.


You put the national match front sight on? It may indeed be taller.
NM sights are a no go for as issued match. Small local match most likely will not care.

I'm not sure but .008" is about 1moa change with the M1 sight radius @ 100 yards..... so if you file down your front sight .008" you will effectively change your point of impact 1" @ 100 yards 2" @ 200 yards and so on.

I would go to 100 yards and reconfirm your sight setting. From your 23+ clicks for 200 -2 clicks should get you close at 100. If not try again.
100 yards 10 clicks up and see where you are hitting.
Every rifle and shooter is different. I have 6 M1s 100 yard zero ranges from 5 - 12 clicks all are very close @ 200 just coming up 2 clicks.
Lighting and eye condition dictate more elevation for me.


Now your new production cmp stock is made by boyds it's a 130$ stock retail.
All 3 of my cmp new production stocks needed the barrel channel widened.
Relief for open rod travel and some heavy sanding to get the metal/handguard fitting nice.
Since your rifle needs so much adjustment in elevation I will assume it's not sitting correctly in the bed of the receiver....effectively pushing the muzzle end down. Try putting your new rifle in your old rifles stock . Take 10 shots to help settle the action and test your zero again.

[tbierley]

The rifle was in extra stock I had in the shop. In had to work on the new stock for a good bit.

[mac1911]

The rifle was in extra stock I had in the shop. In had to work on the new stock for a good bit.
Maybe rifle just needs to settle in the stock.