Need a little help with .50-95 bullets...

[wymanwinn]

i purchased a Uberti 1876 Centennial 28" bbl in .50-95 and Buffalo Arms said it had a .509 bore....i also bought a Jim510300 bullet mold to cast bullets....the mold puts out a VERY nice .510 bullet BUT the rifle slugs at .514"....!!!! i can send the mold to Eric at HollowPointMold.com to increase the driving band diameter but i would also like a mold that casts about a 350gr RNFP bullet at about .515"....

any of y'all have any ideas...Lyman 515139 looks pretty good except for the lack of a crimp groove....

thanks in advance for any and all help here...:)

wyman

[ndnchf]

If you have not done so, I recommend going to the CASCITY forum and look in the 1876 Winchester sub-forum. There is a ton of good info there.

I will say that I use the Lyman 515139 in my 50-95 with good results. My rifle's groove size is pretty similar to yours. I also use a Rapine 350T mold. It has a huge lube groove which is great for black powder.

[wymanwinn]

thanks ndnchf!!!

where might i find a Rapine 350T....Buffalo Arms has the Lyman 515139...

wyman

[wymanwinn]

If you have not done so, I recommend going to the CASCITY forum and look in the 1876 Winchester sub-forum. There is a ton of good info there.

I will say that I use the Lyman 515139 in my 50-95 with good results. My rifle's groove size is pretty similar to yours. I also use a Rapine 350T mold. It has a huge lube groove which is great for black powder.

i ordered the Lyman and saw your post on CasCity....78gr of 3f under the Lyman....cant wait....do you use a card wad on top of the powder?

thanks again...

wyman

[ndnchf]

Sadly, Ray Rapine retired from the mold business a few years ago. So you'd have keep your eye out for a used one. But Accurate Molds has a wide variety of molds, including some very similar to the Rapine. Check out their online catalog. I generally don't use wads in my 50-95 loads. But I have tried them as mentioned on the other forum. But I haven't seen a noticeable difference in accuracy either way. I do recommend use of a compression die to compress your black powder.

[dubber123]

It is heavier that you are after, but the plain old LEE 450 gr RF shoots very well for me in 50-90. I have several other molds, including a couple LBT's I had cut, but the LEE outshoots them all. I think my copy may even cast as big as you need. Might be worth a shot for the low cash outlay. Good luck.

[quasi]

NOE makes a Hollow Base at .512

[wymanwinn]

If you have not done so, I recommend going to the CASCITY forum and look in the 1876 Winchester sub-forum. There is a ton of good info there.

I will say that I use the Lyman 515139 in my 50-95 with good results. My rifle's groove size is pretty similar to yours. I also use a Rapine 350T mold. It has a huge lube groove which is great for black powder.

ndnchf,

received my Lyman 515139 today.....no crimp groove...where do you roll crimp to that bullet....?

thanks again for your help!!!

wyman

[StrawHat]

ndnchf,

received my Lyman 515139 today.....no crimp groove...where do you roll crimp to that bullet....?

thanks again for your help!!!

wyman

If you are using black powder, the bullet will seat on the powder and a crimp is not needed, the neck tension should be sufficient to keep it from backing out.

Kevin

[wymanwinn]

If you are using black powder, the bullet will seat on the powder and a crimp is not needed, the neck tension should be sufficient to keep it from backing out.

Kevin

not so much worried about the bullet "backing out" but rather the bullet being pushed further into the case while the rounds are in the mag tube....

thanks for the response Kevin...

wyman

[dubber123]

not so much worried about the bullet "backing out" but rather the bullet being pushed further into the case while the rounds are in the mag tube....

thanks for the response Kevin...

wyman

If it doesn't make the cartridge OAL too long, I have often just roll crimped below the top driving band in the upper lube groove on designs without a dedicated crimp groove.

[ndnchf]

I see that Moose Moulds is making what looks like a dead ringer for the old Rapine 350 mold. In my 50-95, this bullet has proven to be the best choice. It holds a ton of lube for black powder use.
https://m.facebook.com/MooseMoulds/photos/pb.126463944160432.-2207520000.1445679570./562948903845265/?type=3&source=54

[wymanwinn]

If it doesn't make the cartridge OAL too long, I have often just roll crimped below the top driving band in the upper lube groove on designs without a dedicated crimp groove.

thanks Dubber....my thoughts as well....

[wymanwinn]

I see that Moose Moulds is making what looks like a dead ringer for the old Rapine 350 mold. In my 50-95, this bullet has proven to be the best choice. It holds a ton of lube for black powder use.
https://m.facebook.com/MooseMoulds/photos/pb.126463944160432.-2207520000.1445679570./562948903845265/?type=3&source=54

now, that's my idea of a big lube bullet......

thanks!!!!

[ndnchf]

Just for comparison, from left to right is the Lyman 515139, Rapine 350T and Lee 515-450. I think the Lee is a bit heavy for the 1-48 twist Uberti 1876. But it works well in my Trapdoors. The Rapine bullet works great in my 1876 50-95 and 1871 Springfield Spencer rifle.

[dubber123]

If I needed a lighter boolit, I might be tempted to buy the $20 LEE and have the bottom lube groove and drive band milled off. That would still leave 2 fairly substantial lube grooves.

[wymanwinn]

update...

did some more measuring and figuring....i know, dangerous...LOL

first, slugged my barrel....measured .5140-.5145"...NOT .510" as advertised

my CH4D neck expander measured as stamped....509" way too small for for the ideal bullet size of .516" for this gun

ordered the Moose .50-95 Spencer in dual cavity....REALLY, really nice folks to boot...:)

will order a sizing die to .516"....

sent an email to Buffalo Arms explaining, not complaining, about the lack of proper info on the gun...response was... "as a current production rifle, there should be no need to slug the bore. I’d be inquiring about getting the barrel replaced, as the diameter you measured is nowhere near what the importer lists."

WHAT i say??? no need to slug the bore...i slug the bore of EVERY firearm i take in....

point is, i ordered the necessary moulds (JIM510300) and reloading dies only to have a perfectly good die paper weight and a worthless expander.....

i will say that this is mostly my fault for ordering the reloading gear BEFORE receiving and slugging the rifle.....but still.....

Buffalo Arms will still get my business as stuff happens....

can't wait for the new gear to arrive....

wyman

ps...anyone in the market for a perfect, with handles, JIM510300 single cavity bullet mould....:)

w

[ndnchf]

My Uberti runs 513" groove size. Just about everyone I've heard from say theirs run 513-514". CH4D can send you a larger expander plug.

[wymanwinn]

My Uberti runs 513" groove size. Just about everyone I've heard from say theirs run 513-514". CH4D can send you a larger expander plug.

ordered!!!

really appreciate all the help ndnchf!!!

looking forward to getting this round on paper.....:)

wyman

[ndnchf]

Glad to help. Please share your experience here and on the 1876 Winchester board on cascity.

[wymanwinn]

Glad to help. Please share your experience here and on the 1876 Winchester board on cascity.

My Uberti 1876 Winchester Centennial Story

In early 2013 I had a hankering for a new rifle and the Uberti 1876 Centenial, 28”bbl in .50-95 caught my eye at Buffalo Arms….i got in touch and by April 2013 the order was placed.

I waited patiently (ok impatiently) for over 2-1/2 years, calling nearly every month to determine its delivery date…..finally in June of 2015 the call came in….my rifle had arrived…”did I still want it”….OF COURSE!!! I said….the transaction was complete and my ’76 was headed to my FFL….
In the mean time I ordered .50-95 brass, CH4D .50-95Uberti reloading dies (.519” expander), JIM 510300 bullet mould (delayed) and JIM510300 bullets to hold me over….all of these were ordered at the recommendation of Buffalo Arms as the rifle was to have had a bore of .509”

Upon receipt of the reloading supplies I promptly set to loading up some black powder rounds….happy with my new stash of .50-95 cartridges I headed to the range to put the gun on paper….ok, no consistant groups, but just OK….shrugged it off to a fresh bore and my reloads….

Took the rifle home, gave it a good cleaning, tidied up the action a bit and thought…”what IS the bore size?”….slugged the bore only to find that the actual groove diameter was much bigger than advertises at .5140-.5145”….way too big for the beautifully cast JIM510300-.510” bullets….heck, the bullets hardly engaged the inside diameter of the rifling! The .510 bullets were probably tumbling down the bore…kidding of course!

Trying to make this rifle work, I searched the internet high and low….found a mould maker, Moose Moulds (thanks to the tip from ndnchf of the Cast Boolits and CasCity forums) that make a wonderful 375 grain, big lube bullet in .516 and got in touch with the wonderful folks at CH4D to send me a .514” expander….life is good now, just waiting on the new gear…

I did send a note to Buffalo Arms indicating my disappointment in the recommendations and advised them to advise customers purchasing this rifle to slug the barrel before ordering reloading gear and the response was curious to say the least….

“Hello, as a current production rifle, there should be no need to slug the bore. I’d be inquiring about getting the barrel replaced, as the diameter you measured is nowhere near what the importer lists. Thanks…”

WHAT!!! In every black powder firearm I have ever purchased I have slugged the bore to determine the groove diameter to be better equipped to purchase the correct bullet mould size and reloading dies…..EVERY firearm!!!

I am NOT here to bitch and whine about Buffalo Arms, I still think that they, Dave Gullo and staff, are great folks, have great products and outstanding service….and here is the BUT…

They shrugged me off with regard to a supplies for a GREAT rifle with a less than stellar reply….not really what I expected….
So, in closing….if you want a Gorgeous Uberti replica of the 1876 Winchester Centennial in .50-95, by all means buy one, buy it from Buffalo Arms and when you receive it slug the barrel then buy the reloading gear…

wyman

[ndnchf]

Good summary, thanks for sharing. BACO's reply is a bit puzzling and not up to the standards I expect from them. But I also wonder if there could have been a misunderstanding. Your statement: "….all of these were ordered at the recommendation of Buffalo Arms as the rifle was to have had a bore of .509” does sound correct. The bore probably is close to 509", it's the groove diameter that you wanted to know. Did you ask them about the bore diameter or groove diameter? Maybe there was a misunderstanding of what exact measurement you were asking about? Regardless, you are on your way to success and a lot of fun.

[wymanwinn]

Good summary, thanks for sharing. BACO's reply is a bit puzzling and not up to the standards I expect from them. But I also wonder if there could have been a misunderstanding. Your statement: "….all of these were ordered at the recommendation of Buffalo Arms as the rifle was to have had a bore of .509” does sound correct. The bore probably is close to 509", it's the groove diameter that you wanted to know. Did you ask them about the bore diameter or groove diameter? Maybe there was a misunderstanding of what exact measurement you were asking about? Regardless, you are on your way to success and a lot of fun.

it appears that, after a lengthy conversation with Brandon at Buffalo Arms, Cimarron has remove all info regarding the "bore" size and twist rate from their website....AND that Brandon recalls that the bore of these rifles should be in the range of .500-.507"....now whether that is bore or groove, i do not know, but he agrees that a .510": bullet is NOT proper in a .514" groove....

i asked him if he had any more of these rifles in stock to slug the bores and get back to me or at the least Cimarron....

all will be well when i receive the new expander and bullet mould.....just hope the cartridge chambers.....

[dubber123]

it appears that, after a lengthy conversation with Brandon at Buffalo Arms, Cimarron has remove all info regarding the "bore" size and twist rate from their website....AND that Brandon recalls that the bore of these rifles should be in the range of .500-.507"....now whether that is bore or groove, i do not know, but he agrees that a .510": bullet is NOT proper in a .514" groove....

i asked him if he had any more of these rifles in stock to slug the bores and get back to me or at the least Cimarron....

all will be well when i receive the new expander and bullet mould.....just hope the cartridge chambers.....

Of course there are no guarantees, but I have a 6.5" shorty Contender pistol barrel in 50-70 made by a reputable manufacturer. It does have a .510" groove barrel, but will readily chamber a .516" boolit. I'm betting you will be fine. Sorry for the run around though.

[ndnchf]

Well, just glad you are getting it sorted out. Just too bad you had spend more money money than you should have.

Do you have a compression plug or die? For shooting black powder efficiently, you'll need to compress your powder. Using the bullet for this is not a good idea.

[wymanwinn]

Well, just glad you are getting it sorted out. Just too bad you had spend more money money than you should have.

Do you have a compression plug or die? For shooting black powder efficiently, you'll need to compress your powder. Using the bullet for this is not a good idea.

done this rodeo......500 compression die on the way.....:)

:)

[wymanwinn]

Of course there are no guarantees, but I have a 6.5" shorty Contender pistol barrel in 50-70 made by a reputable manufacturer. It does have a .510" groove barrel, but will readily chamber a .516" boolit. I'm betting you will be fine. Sorry for the run around though.

it may be a couple of weeks before the Moose Mould 516375 shows and the .514 expander arrived yesterday....made a "dummy' copper bullet in .516 today at work...will full length size, expand the neck to .514 and seat the "dummy" bullet to see if the cartridge case chambers....hoping the crimp groove to meplat dimension on the MM 516375 is the same/or close as the JIM510300 so i dont have to trim the cases too much....

more later....

update, 6pm, 10/31

well, i full length sized an empty .50-95 case, expanded the ID of the neck to the new CH4D .514" expander plug and seated my "dummy" .516" "bullet"....understand that i only made a short/neck length copper plug to measure the OD of the neck and to see if it chambered in my rifle....the OD of the neck is, with the .516" dummy is .5335" AND...wait for it....

it chambers beautifully in my rifle....

now waiting for the Moose 516375 mold for the "acid test".....

oh yeah...the original .509" CH4D expander was modified to now be a powder compression die.....:)

wyman