357 magnum Deer Bullet

[Wolfgang]

Hello everyone,

I am currently working up loads for deer season in my Ruger 77/357 and have come up with several that are fantastic on the accuracy arena easily holding well within an inch at 50 yards if I do my part on the trigger.

The loads are: 180gr. NOE HP/FP- load produces an average velocity of 1531 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

160gr. Lyman 358156 GC SWC- load produces an average velocity of 1785 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

158gr. J-word HP- load produces an average velocity of 1700 FPS ten feet from the muzzle.

I would like opinions as to what combination would be prefered for whitetail at 100 yards and closer. (In most cases much closer.) Both NOE either HP or FP group the same. Before everyone starts telling me that there are better calibers out there, I know. This is geared toward my 10 year old son and my wife neither of which handle recoil well. I am not really all that enthused with using the jacketed hp's but I ended up with a lot of them and they do shoot well although no any better than my cast bullets which I prefer.

Please offer up opinions as to what you feel would be the best choice and reasons why you think so. I know that the deer aren't bullet proof and any one of these loads will do the job but I would like your thoughts as to which one will do the job best. My last deer was taken at 40 yards with a 45 ACP with a 200gr. bullet loaded to almost 900 FPS and it was through and through. Again, not the best choice but it got the job done and he was DRT. For what it's worth I will be backing up both my son and my wife with either my 45-70 or more likely my 44 magnum Marlin (Just in case):|

Thanks,
Wolfgang

[dilly]

I would think if you got the alloy just right the NOE hollow point would be the deadliest. I'm not a big hunter though so don't overvalue my opinion.

[Hickory]

I would think that the loads you listed would handle any deer here in Ohio.
Your biggest concern would be getting the boolit in the right spot on the deer.

[Blacktail 8541]

All the loads stated will do the job. I would lean to the lyman GC because of not knowing the alloy used for the HP

[harley45]

We have used that 180 gr FP on a few hogs at around 1100 FPS and have had excellent luck as long as shot placement was good! It's a great boolit!

[jhalcott]

You have to get them to practice with the gun and loads to be certain they CAN hit the deers vitals! The practice gets the wife and child used to the gun/load. I believe any of those loads will do. I am not familiar with the legalities of using a .357 in your area, so make sure it IS legal. I'm not saying it can not work as I know of at least one male deer killed with a rimfire rifle.

[Blammer]

I have killed a few with my Win 94 357mag lever gun using NOE 360180 flat point version.

Plenty of bone crushing penetration. :)

[lobogunleather]

I have taken several deer with a .357 revolver and cast bullets out to about 60 yards. The two molds I have used are the Lee 358-150 SWC and 358-150 SWC-HP, cast with wheel weight metal and loaded in the 1100-1200 FPS levels (revolvers 4" and 6" barrels).

Body shots (heart-lung area) will almost always completely penetrate through-and-through. With the hollow points I have recovered a couple of bullets still inside the chest cavities, penetration was nearly all the way through, and the hollow point cavities simply disintegrated leaving a nearly cylindrical bullet body with little expansion.

The loads you have described when fired from your rifle will have about 500 to 600 FPS greater muzzle velocity and correspondingly higher terminal energy than my revolver loads. Unless a large bone is struck, or a shot is taken at an oblique angle, I would expect any of them to completely penetrate a deer, and I doubt that the hollow point bullets would expand much (if at all) unless cast of a very soft alloy, which could cause other challenges at the velocities you are seeking.

Short version, I would concern myself more with shot placement than anything else, and I would not be counting on any serious expansion of the bullets. A .357" diameter hole through the heart, major arteries, or the lungs can be counted on to put a deer down pretty quickly, and those critical areas comprise a target of about 8" to 10" in diameter. Assuming that your wife and son can consistently keep their shots on a pie plate at 100 yards any deer encountered should be enroute to the freezer pretty quickly.

[Wolfgang]

Thanks for everyones input. As far as my alloy goes, it is around 18 pounds of wheel weight metal with 2 pounds of pure lead added whatever that mix would be. I do know that the bullets expand at least in my berm but that means nothing in an animal. The wife and son will be shooting at an eight inch AR500 steel plate I have hanging on my range and at whatever distance they can consistently go five for five on demand will determine how far away I will allow them to take a crack at a deer. One of my concerns is penetration. I like two holes in them if I can get it as they leak more and faster that way. Penetration on a full on broadside shot would obviously not be any real challenge for the above listed bullets but at less than an optimum angle where larger bones may come into play concerns me. I am working off limited experience with the 357 magnum as I have only shot them with 44 mags, 41 mags, 45 Colts at Ruger loads levels and the 45 ACP mentioned above. These were all handguns and with the exception of the 45 ACP I didn't concern myself too much with shot angles as I was fairly certain that those bullets would reach the vitals no matter what angle shot was presented. With the exception of one deer using a toned down XTP due to a hand injury one year, I have never recovered a bullet. Whatever bullet is chosen, I'm going to load up a bunch and there will be much practice prior to the hunt.

[Lawyerman]

My kids began hunting at the age of 6 with a Marlin 94. They hunted with that rifle killing deer and feral hogs until they were about 13 or so....In that time we killed over a dozen mule deer and DOZENS of feral hogs. Ranges were kept to under 100 yards. Never lost an animal. Never had one go more than 20 yards at most. We used the same load the whole time- the Federal 180 Grain Cast Core. Never recovered a bullet even though on more than one occasion we killed TWO HOGS WITH ONE BULLET. Hogs line up under a feeder side by side....wait.....boom....two flops....So, I can recommend both the .357 magnum and the Federal 180 grain cast core bullet...that combination has put more food on my table over the last 10 years than any other.

[Pumpkinheaver]

My son uses a lever in .357 magnum I load the Lee 158 RNFP over H-110 and it works great. I think any of the loads mentioned will do fine.

[OnHoPr]

I am kinda in a toss up between the 180 & the 160. The jacketed 158 HP at those speeds, while hitting nothing but ribs and lungs should do the job, but from maybe a little buck or doe fever if the harder more meatier shoulder is hit, there might be bullet blowup and very poor penetration. I have a thought in my noodle as to the alloy make up for the speeds of the 160 or cast from both. I am assuming that it is a tougher alloy. The speed of the 160 sounds good and even out to a 100 yds with the metplat should be able to give a good tunnel wound through the lungs even if the shoulder is hit. Same way with the 180 which should give more penetration assurance if more meat and bone are encountered. When getting out to the 100 yd mark the 180 would have slowed down a bit and the HP would help more with expansion to create a somewhat larger tunnel wound. If the shots will be in the average of 40 to 60 yds then the 160 with its speed and metplat may provide a bigger initial smack and a little more disruption of wound channel.

[Lever-man]

I've killed a lot of deer with a Marlin 357 mag using 158 gr JHP bullets. Don't know about velocity never had a chronograph but I was loading max loads of Blue dot. In today's books they are over max! As long as the shots are under 100 yds and in the boiler room or shoulder they will do the job. The cast bullets should do even better but I have not shot one with cast yet, still pretty new at casting.

[white eagle]

I always seem to go towards the heavy side when selecting boolits,bullets for hunting.
Would probably go with the NOE 18 hp alloyed correctly that would seem to me to be ideal
Expansion and mass
my choice of those listed

[43PU]

I have killed a doe at 135 yards with the Lee 358-158grn with 50-50% WW and pure going 1400fps.

I think it's kinda funny on here that people tend to think pistol cal rifles tend to be a little on the light side for hunting, however they have no problems with a 30-30,308,30-06...Etc with a 150-180 grn bullet going 1800fps to kill deer or even elk.

One of my favorite says is..a 30 cal MAY expand but my 357 will never shrink.
43 pu

[Lever-man]

If I ever have to chose only one caliber or one gun it will be my Marlin 357 rifle.

[marshall623]

I believe any of the listed loads will get it done. I can't wait myself to give the NOE -360-180- WFNGC a try have loads for the GP and the 10" Tender. Good luck

[MT Gianni]

The 180 fp will have trouble staying in a deer but if hit correctly they will not go far.

[OnHoPr]

I have killed a doe at 135 yards with the Lee 358-158grn with 50-50% WW and pure going 1400fps.

I think it's kinda funny on here that people tend to think pistol cal rifles tend to be a little on the lig ht side for hunting, however they have no problems with a 30-30,308,30-06...Etc with a 150-180 grn bullet going 1800fps to kill deer or even elk.

One of my favorite says is..a 30 cal MAY expand but my 357 will never shrink.
43 pu

As to your first statement I have seen deer killed with 22s, but I have also seen deer escape with 357s.

As to your second statement I tend to agree with you. If your are pushing the 357 160 gr SWC pert near 1800 fps in a rifle it should be just as effective or more so as the similar boolits in the 30 cals at the same speeds within reasonable distance. The SWC will slow down fast though with its lower BC. The 30 cals though when getting out to the 100 yd mark will have better BC and SD and may work a touch better properly alloyed and possibly HP.

As to your third statement it sounds like it makes good sense to me.lol

[quilbilly]

Several years ago during muzzleloading hunts I used a 45 caliber rifle with 358 cast boolits in sabots. The 125 gr boolits were extraordinarily accurate out to 200 yards and I used them for both coyotes and black tail deer. The several deer I got with them were either DRT or went less than 20 yards (all shots were within 90 yards). The estimated muzzle velocity of that load was about 1700 fps.

[Lonegun1894]

I have taken deer and hogs with the .357 in revolvers of 4-6", a Contender 10", and rifles of 16-20", and the boolits used were initially the Lee 158gr SWCGC and then the Lyman 358156, which work exactly the same both in my guns and on the animals I have taken. Put that boolit where it counts an you will have no problems taking deer.

[Wolfgang]

Well, first off I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts on this matter. I think I'm going to go with the 180's. While shooting I noticed that the 160's printed only about 3 inches higher than the loads with the 180's so once sighted in at 100 yards I can check how each load prints at different distances. If the hunting gods smile upon us and the wife and boy get one, then I can switch loads and try it with the 160's. I have ruled out the JHP's only because I would rather do the job with bullets that I've made myself :bigsmyl2:. I have loads for the 44's that out of the Marlin are clocking at an average of 1939 fps with the 215gr Thompson GC bullet and at 1809 fps with the good old 429421 with healthy doses of H110. The 45-70 is sighted with Lyman's old 457122 HP over top of enough 3031 to sling it along at just under 1400 fps. All of these loads shoot really well so I don't anticipate any real troubles unless the loose screws behind the triggers don't do their part. It will be interesting hunting with a rifle here in sunny Ohio and I suspect that once I take one or two with the rifles I will probably go back to the handguns as I enjoy shooting them more and to be honest, I'm getting really lazy and they are just easier to tote around. Most of the areas that I hunt are thick so long range shots are few and far between.

Wolfgang

[MarkP]

I have loaded the NOE 180 HP's in my 350 Rem Mag's with Trailboss at 357 Mag Rifle velocities and would use these loads on deer without reservation.

[MaLar]

If I ever have to chose only one caliber or one gun it will be my Marlin 357 rifle.
I feel the same about my B92

[Mica_Hiebert]

180 flat point will hit like a hammer and would be my choice out of all the bullets listed but with the lowest velocity of your loads will have the most arc in its trajectory so your poi between 100 and 150 yards may be very sever so I recommend a range finder. do you mind pm'ing me your 180 gn load? I have one of those molds on the way and its being shot out of a 77/357 and gp100.

[Wolfgang]

PM on the way.

[cattleskinner]

I think you are on the right track using the 180 gr. bullet in the rifle. I have used that same bullet exclusively out of a rifle, with no complaints, and it was used in my 357 Max last year to down 5 deer. I have shot one deer in Michigan a few years back with the 357 Marlin and the heavy bullet, but I do not really count it because it was a head shot. My Marlin was also used last year by a co-worker's daughter to down a doe using 125 gr. JSP bullets.

My only advice is to use Lil Gun, in your 357 rifle, it is extremely accurate in mine, and seems to eek the last bit of speed possible. I have used 2400 which worked well, and this year hope to try 300MP powder, as I have read good reports of people having luck with it in straight walled casings.

[Wolfgang]

I have a Handi-Rifle that I reamed to Max but I can't seem to get it to shoot well with anything I try. The 180's out of it were just north of 2100 fps but not grouping nearly as well. I would like to use it but I need a load that will shoot like a rifle should shoot.:cry:

[cattleskinner]

The max that I have is a reamed handi rifle too. It shoots right around an inch group, but always has a pesky flier that makes it an inch and a half for five shots. With jacketed it is always under an inch. I use AA1680 in it right now, with MML lube and it seems to keep consistent groups with that. I have a few more powders I would like to try if I could ever find the time but did not have much luck using Lil Gun like the Marlin did, and would keep the groups at two inches or more.

[Cornbread]

I'd go for the 180grn personally but I have killed a deer with a 2" snub nose .357 shooting 158gr SWC with one shot when out fishing once during deer season. That was all I had on me and you have to dance with the one you brought I guess. Anyway it's all about putting the bullet in the right spot. They do that with any of the loads in that first post and you'll be eating venison. In your situation I'd go with the one they can shoot the best.

[outdoorfan]

Like a few here have already mentioned, my .357 lever gun would be the last to go.

I realize that it's probably too late in the game now to cast some flat points with that NOE mold, but that is the best option, imo. I have tested the hp's from that mold (50/50 alloy, ht'ed to 20-22 bhn), and the results were never quite as good (in 1 gallon water jugs) as the solid configuration with softish alloy. Both the bursting of the multiple jugs and penetration were in favor of the solid configuration when the solid boolit could expand well with the softish alloy (50/50 ac'ed for 9 bhn). I drive these hard to approaching 1800 fps with a full dose of Lil'gun.

Edit: I have never used the NOE mold, but I have the MP version, which I think is the same thing. My testing of the HP's was mainly with the large HP configuration. I get around 180 grains with the HP and 190 grains with the solid configuration per the 50/50 alloy that I use (clip-on ww's/soft lead).

[lak]

I don't want to get off subject, but you mentioned the 357 Max. Handy Rifles have 1-18 twist. The Max I have is 1-14 and is picky about what you shoot out of it. Best groups are with RCBS 200 and 1680. Doesn't seem to like the RCBS 180 Sil as well. Lil Gun has great velocity, but my experience it is extremely hot, and some have posted it has eroded the throat in their Max. Lak

[missionary5155]

Greetings
You will not be unhappy using the 180's. Every deer I have helped track down and too many were never found that were shot with a caliber .357 was hit with a bullet that weighed less than 165 grains. Most were hit with 158's. No exits. Very little blood trails.
180's seem to be that threshold weight in .357 that have enough inertia to get through completely. Exit wounds leak and leave trails.
Those 180's will do a good job.
Mike in Peru

[GabbyM]

There is my 357 magnum rifle and revolver bullet. It's a custom mold from Mountain Molds. 170 grain with gas check. I cast it BHN #9 and drive it with a 80 to 90% power load of Alliant 2400 powder. Any velocity over 900 fps will give expansion. I use the same principle with 44 magnum. Casting a 240gr SWC-gas check RCBS bullet with soft alloy for expansion. Just take your velocity divided by 100. Then make your alloy BHN a few numbers under that.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50640&d=1250353529

[Wolfgang]

Outdoorfan,
"I realize that it's probably too late in the game now to cast some flat points with that NOE mold, but that is the best option, imo."​

Not too late at all! I still have a supply of the flat points cast and sized but they are not as soft as the alloy you mentioned.
[COLOR=#333333]I will be casting up some more in the very near future and will soft the alloy up a bit. I did shoot a little today and recovered a few from the berm and the noses were flattened out a bit but it was also hitting dirt not flesh and bone. I have to cast up some more 457122's for the 45-70 so cranking out some more of the 180's will not be a problem.

lak,
While on the subject, I did manage to go out back today and test a few loads out of the 357 Maximum Handi Rifle this morning and I had the same 180's grouping into about 2- 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards. Not bad but should be a bit better IMO. This load was using H110 and Remington 7 1/2 primers and the bullet seated out and crimped into the first grease groove. According to the chronograph these were averaging 2045 fps. I would like it to be a tad more accurate but that's minute of deer out to any range I'd be comfortable using the rifle.I also tried out the last few XTP 180gr. J-word bullets I had as well. They grouped well too but were a tad slower.


Mike,

I think the the 180's should work out well although the 160's would work as well I think. There is about a 28 grain difference in weight with my alloy and lubed and checked. If I were going to be the one on the trigger and picking my shots then I might consider using them but with the boy and the wife I want to give them as much of a "fudge" factor as I can. Not that I'll let them take any old shot but I want them to have the best chance of reaching the vitals from less than perfect angles.

Wolfgang

[Blackwater]

Wolfgang, if it were me, I think I'd use the 358156. There's no doubt that any of them will kill well, but in comparison, I think that one might have an edge due to the velocity (increases radial damage in flesh usually, the flat is big enough to produce significant "shock" on initial impact, and it'll almost surely go clean through and give you two holes to leak blood. If it's not cast really hard, it'll also likely expand to at least a significant degree.

But really, it's more about exactly where you hit them than what you hit them with, and I'd feel confident with any of the loads you mention. The 180 should go through most whitetails lengthwise, if you take rear end shots. I don't, but that's an elective decision, and some do if they have the right bullet (and a few who just don't know any better, of course).

Personally, I won't worry about you or your loads, and with the accuracy you're getting, it should be no biggie to place those bullets really well. I think you'll be eating venison soon.

[outdoorfan]

Actually, even a 180 grainer at full velocity can stop inside a deer shot broadside if it smashes into enough bone. That is, if it's a softer alloy that expands a lot.

Wolfgang,

You don't need to soften the alloy, I don't think. If you are primarily using coww's, then the bhn (I assume your boolits are air-cooled) shouldn't be more than about 12ish, right? That's not too hard, especially if the muzzle velocity is up there at 1600+ fps. And, you said that shots would probably be within 100 yards (most likely way under that). So, if you have 1600 or so fps at the muzzle; that's about 1300-1350 fps at 100 yards & 1400 fps at 50 yards. You will need about 1300 fps to make 12 bhn expand any appreciable amount.

Now, if you get closer to 1800 fps at the muzzle, which is the true potential of a 180-190 grainer in a .357 magnum case, then you will have good expansion with your 12 bhn boolit to about 100 yards, and some expansion to about 125-150 yards. The 50/50 alloy at 9 bhn will expand as well at 1400 fps as it does at 1800 fps impact velocity. Weird, I know. It still expands okay at 1100-1200 fps impact. Below that, not much expansion at all.

Hope this helps.

[Wolfgang]

outdoorfan,

I do have Lil Gun but I was not getting nearly the accuracy as I did with H110 so I didn't drag the chronograph out to check the velocities I was getting with those loads. I have to cast more bullets up anyway so I can run a batch that is somewhat softer without any real problem and see how they work out. Are you testing expansion using water filled jugs or some other type of media? I have no real problem with large caliber bullets that don't expand much if at all as they already start out making a big hole but some expansion in the smaller bore is desirable I think. I had thought of using the hollow point version of this bullet as they print to the same area and weigh in at about ten grains less than the flat point but I am not sure how well they hold up or if my alloy is at a point of being too hard to expand and rather than expanding the front of the bullet would just fragment. You are correct in that the alloy is for the most part COWW metal. I had even thought of trying BruceB's method of creating soft points to try out but it's getting a little late in the game to try out all of the possible combinations possible.

[outdoorfan]

You're doing just fine, and what you have will work well. Although if you want to cast some more out of 50/50, go ahead. That's a great alloy.

The .28 meplat on that bullet will work well on game, even without much expansion, as long as impact velocities are kept above about 1,300 fps.

H110 is a great powder. It's true that Lilgun seems to get a bit more velocity out of it, but H110 is just fine. A tried and true maximum powder charge, with H110, with a bullet in the 180-190 weight class with the profile this one has is right around 16 grains. I would work up to that 16 from about 15 grains just to be careful. Primers can also have an effect on velocity and accuracy, but I would go for accuracy first as long as you're getting decent velocity over 1600 at the muzzle. The cool thing about the .357 magnum is that it still doesn't really bark at all even with a full rompin' stompin' charge. In a carbine, that is.

Yes, I was testing in water-filled one gallon milk jugs.

If I were you, I would ditch the HP's for the FP's in this bullet, along as you keep impact velocities above 1300 fps and a bhn no more than about 12ish.

[Cornbread]

I get great expansion on game with 45-70 bullets with air cooled 50/50 going 1,000fps at impact(150 yards). I've never tested them on water jugs but they expand just fine on deer. I know weight wise it is an apples to oranges comparison because one is 405grn and the other is 180grn but I didn't realize it made such a difference if you guys aren't seeing expansion until you hit 1,300fps. My 45-70 bullets don't even leave the muzzle of the revolver going that fast.

[DougGuy]

There is my 357 magnum rifle and revolver bullet. It's a custom mold from Mountain Molds. 170 grain with gas check. I cast it BHN #9 and drive it with a 80 to 90% power load of Alliant 2400 powder. Any velocity over 900 fps will give expansion. I use the same principle with 44 magnum. Casting a 240gr SWC-gas check RCBS bullet with soft alloy for expansion. Just take your velocity divided by 100. Then make your alloy BHN a few numbers under that.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50640&d=1250353529

^^^^ Excellent hunting boolit profile. Any heavy for caliber boolit with large meplat like this will bring home deer and bigger game. You really do not need expansion. Punching through BOTH sides of the animal is better than stopping the boolit on the far side. Expansion should be secondary. Shot placement should be PRIMARY goal.


Most of the areas that I hunt are thick so long range shots are few and far between.

Wolfgang

Yeah buddy! I get in where it is thick and pick a tree that has trails intersecting close by, put my climbing stand on it and rarely go home without meat. You can have the best and most accurate arms and the most effective boolits but without an effective hunting strategy, you won't even fire a shot.

[Wolfgang]

I am looking at the manuals that I have and they are showing a maximum load at 13.5gr. of H110 with 180's but that's jacketed bullets. I did notice that Marshall Stanton of Beartooth listed a load at 16gr. on their site using his bullet. I have not pushed mine that hard.

[outdoorfan]

I get great expansion on game with 45-70 bullets with air cooled 50/50 going 1,000fps at impact(150 yards). I've never tested them on water jugs but they expand just fine on deer. I know weight wise it is an apples to oranges comparison because one is 405grn and the other is 180grn but I didn't realize it made such a difference if you guys aren't seeing expansion until you hit 1,300fps. My 45-70 bullets don't even leave the muzzle of the revolver going that fast.

Testing media can sure bring different results. I've shot the RCBS 45-270-SAA (.325 meplat) at 900 fps impact velocity and got zero deformation of any kind in gallon milk jugs with water. That's with 50/50 alloy for 8.5-9 bhn. Water tends to bring on more resistance than the flesh of a deer, but bone can deform a chunk of lead, for sure.

Personally, if I am looking for expansion, then I don't just want to see the bullet deform a tad. I want to see it expand a considerable amount. I have found that, apart from hitting bone, it takes roughly 1300 fps impact velocity with roughly 12-14 bhn hardness to safely make that thing expand and create enough shock to quickly put down an animal with the bone density of a deer. A more dense animal, like a hog (I haven't shot one, but read others reports), provides more resistance and therefore impact velocity can be less to make the lead bullet work more.

I'm not saying that sub-1300 fps impact with the .35 bore won't kill deer. I'm saying that I believe it is a more reliable quick killer above that threshold when it comes to deer.

[MT Gianni]

I am looking at the manuals that I have and they are showing a maximum load at 13.5gr. of H110 with 180's but that's jacketed bullets. I did notice that Marshall Stanton of Beartooth listed a load at 16gr. on their site using his bullet. I have not pushed mine that hard.


15 years ago that was listed as a Ruger Blackhawk only load. I have shot it in mine and would reserve it for those.

[Lonegun1894]

Amazing how the loads listed in manuals keep getting lighter and lighter, isn't it? Reminds me of how the original loads for the .357 Mag were a bit higher pressured than modern factory offerings.

Speer 13, dated 2001, pg 530 under .357 Magnum (Silhouette Loads) lists a 180gr jacketed bullet pushed by H-110 as going 1396fps when pushed by a starting load of 14.5grs out of a 10" TC Contender, and a max of 16.1gr for 1528fps with the same bullet. Now the write-up says to only use this load in single-shot pistols and heavy framed revolvers, but doesn't give any brands or models for said heavy frame revolver, soI'm betting they aren't saying so if it damages you and your gun, regardless of what you used, it wasn't heavy framed enough so they aren't responsible.

[outdoorfan]

Yes, I have referenced Marshall Stanton's loads many times. I probably wouldn't load up my 686 with a steady diet of those, but a Blackhawk or GP100 would be easy. The Rossi 92 is also easily strong enough to handle those loads. And I would be shocked if the Ruger 77 is any different. But do whatever pleases you within whatever you're comfortable with.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Maybe the loads are getting lighter because certain big name revolvers are not able to take the internal forces being applied to the aging designs. There are certain commonly available revolvers that will not hold together if fed max loads that Rugers and Dan Wessons digest with little fuss. The 296 load with 180 gc that I shot silly steel targets with in my caliber .357 DW 10 inch would not have been kind to a S&W. Those little notes "Only safe in ..." do not help profits if your name is something else.

Then there are powder variances. Is the 296 / H110 of today the same that we were shooting 20 years ago ? Are the "band-aides" made of a tougher but cheaper metal on "j" words ? Are primers "hotter" ? Lots of variables can be in the mix.
Mike in Peru

[Wolfgang]

Mike, This was my thought too. I sometimes worry a little too much possibly and I'm sure lawsuits have a bearing on the loads shown in most of the modern loading manuals the same as they had their effect on triggers that are absolutely horrible anymore but over time things do change as do the powder formulations and pressure testing equipment gets better. 2400 was always seen in old manuals as using a magnum primers and now they recommend against using them. That being said, I stopped just before reaching max loads and at that level I noted no outward signs of excessive pressure and I'm sure there is room for a little more experimentation but right now I'm running out of time to do so.

Wolfgang

[GabbyM]

I have very little faith in old data which was developed with C.U.P. methods. It's a well published fact many of the old loads. When tested with more modern electronic gages showed to be over pressure.

I own a 44 magnum so figure why stretch the frame on my old Colt Trooper III. 12.0 grains of 2400 under that 170 gr bullet is plenty.

Bullet I posted a photo of is a bit specialized. Designed it for Marlin lever guns so it has the .300" long nose copied from an RCBS Cowboy 158 RNFP. Band on nose is reduced size so it drops right in the throats. Body cast .360+ inches. It works very well in my Colt however as out of the six chambers it has three sizes. Revolver leads up two of the oversized throats badly with my standard .358" bullets in this caliber. So I use this GC bullet sized .360" and it runs OK. Since the nose cast a loose fit the bullets still drop right into the tighter chambers. Even when sized large. Trick I can't pull with my Lyman 358429. Velocity over a chrony is all over the place as you run through tight then loose cylinders. I'd have it reamed out but it's not actually my revolver.

[220]

I would be using the NOE, I used the same boolit in HP to take a very young sambar this year. 100lbs would of pulled it up, boolit was 2:2:96, 1500fps, at 70y I hit it a little further back than I would have liked just clipping the lungs, broke ribs on the way in ribs on the way out left a little doughnut of lead under the skin at the exit wound where the expanded nose was shed as the shank exited. Despite the poor placement it only went 10y.