Converting Martini?

[andym79]

Okay so my mind got wandering. What kind of conversions could I do to a 310 BSA Martini cadet?

Cartridges I would like to have are any suitable?

218bee
219zipper
25-35
32-40
35/30-30


I guess 218bee 25-20 and 32-20 are the easiest!

Are these apart from the bee too long or too much for the little cadet?
Would most of these be more suited to a Martini 303 conversion?


I have also been considering 303 martini conversion as suitable candidates for that I came up with

30-30
30-40
7.62-54r
32special
38-55
40-70
405w
44-40
44m
444
45lc
450m

of the two the 30-40 or 40-70 being the most suitable based on rim size, thickness and length. The 40-70 would be interesting and close to my desired 40-65. Brass might be a pain to get though!

All of the suggested cartridges for the 303 martini conversion have similar rims, what needs to be modified apart from a new barrel to accomodate different rim sizes?

[ericp]

I would think that any of those on first list would work just fine. Back in the 50's/early 60's the Cadets were available rechambered to 32 Special. I shot one a few times and they belt you pretty good out of that light rifle. My inclination would be towards one of the short rounds or the 25-35. I've long wanted to find an action for a project like this.
Can't help with the large frame Martini.


Eric

[Mk42gunner]

The Martini Cadets are some awful dainty rifles for anything with the .30-30 case head, which encompasses most of the cartridges on your first list. The barrel shank gets pretty thin from my understanding. Unsafe or not? I don't know, but I don't think I would risk it on a new build.

I have only held a few in my hands, but I think they would be great for most pistol cartridges from the .357 Mag on down. I think the .222 Rimmed will also work in them. From reading I understand the rimless extractors are a sometimes thing, so whether a rimless .222 case would work is kind of iffy.

Large framed ones should be workable for most rimmed cartridges.

Robert

[pietro]

.

G'day, Andy !

Any .32 caliber cartridge, up to the length of the .32 Special, would be the easiest/simplest conversion for a .310 Cadet, because there's no re-boring or rebarreling involved - just a relatively simple rechambering.

The longer .32's, like the .32 Special, would additionally require a reworking/deepening of the loading trough in the top of the breechblock to allow loading the longer cartridge.

And, yes - While it can be a worthwhile conversion, a .32 Special Cadet recoils/kicks like a mule in so light a rifle.


.

[John Taylor]

The actions seem to have plenty of strength for their size but the hoop size will limit the size of cartridge, also the trough in the breach block will limit the rim size. I found out they are not to great for reworking to strait walled long cases like the 357 max or even the 22 mag. On the 357 Max the trough had to be deepened to get the long case to slide in strait. Any case that has a slight taper would be better. The 22 mag had an ejection problem, long strait case stopped about half way out. I made mine in 32 S&W with an octagon barrel. I'm leaning toward guns that don't hurt when you pull the trigger because it take longer to recover at my age (67 today). If you plan on using it for hunting the 32-40 will be fine on deer, 32 special kicks to hard. The bore and groove size are usually not right for the 32, most are around .317". In my case I usually don't mess around with the old barrel because it is easy for me to make up what ever caliber I want.

[Black Beard]

218 bee would be the winner for me. Could this be done within the existing barrel with a sleeve?

If not the if you have a good 310 barrel going then I would be interested.

If you could get it to work, bearing in mind what John said above, .357 mag could be good and you would be able to download to a comfortable recoil level.

On my rifle, 32 S&W cases are too small on the rim to extract with the standard 310 extractor mechanism so they, 32H&R or 327 Mag would be a lot of work.

I think that the barrel-action dimensions and fit are online somewhere. I have found them before. I think they might be a weird tapered fit.

BB

[gnoahhh]

Anything based on a Hornet, .32WCF, or .38 Special head diameter are preferred for a cadet action, IMO. Those choices include a lot of stuff between .17 Hornet and .222 Rimmed.

I always thought that a cartridge based on the .32-20 case shortened, for a .318-or so diameter bullet, would be about ideal for a Cadet action. Oh wait, they did...

[Wayne Smith]

For the large Martini, if my gunsmith ever gets it made, I will have one in 25 Krag AI.

[Jedman]

I have 2 of the small cadet sized Martinis that are waiting for a new barrel. One is a German made Zeller Martini action stocked in a one piece stock, it was a 22 K Hornet when I bought it and my plans are to rebarrel it to 256 Win Mag.
The other is a Greener take- down Martini that's chambered in 310 Cadet but has a worn out bore, My plan for that one is to use a 30 cal. barrel and chamber it to 300 blk. out and add a rim cut. Rimmed black out cases can be formed on 357 Mag. cases with a slightly short neck or formed full length using 360 Dan Wesson brass. There are several handi rifles already shooting this round and it is very versatile.
Both of these are bottle necked rounds based on a rimmed 357 Mag. sized case and would be a good fit for the Cadet sized action.

Jedman

[Bigslug]

Mine's a hybrid .32-20 chamber and it shoots GREAT, but if I had a naked receiver or a totally shot out bore, .357 Magnum would be the no-brainer choice for me.

You don't have a lot of capacity for cartridge diameter or cartridge length, but you DO have a lot of action strength. There are few problems inside 200 yards that cannot be solved by a 200~ grain .358 propelled by slow powder out of a long barrel.

[rollmyown]

I like the 218 bee and 25/20. Efficient end economic rounds.

[jumbeaux]

I would really love one chambered in 38 special...I passed on buying one in 357 magnum many years ago because I didn't have the extra money...

[Goatwhiskers]

I have a large action with a 26" Ackley barrel chambered in 30/40AI, money couldn't buy it. Also have a Cadet that I acquired that had the original barrel bored to .35 cal and chambered for the .357Mag. I opened it out to Max, found that a fat nosed RD175gr boolit was a little tricky to chamber whereas the long nosed 190gr version works well as long as I hold the lever down when loading. Love it shooting PP pushed by a charge of 1680. GW

[downunderrunner]

personally, .327 federal, .44mag CAN be done, but it's a bomb waiting to explode, as for the rounds you listed, .218 bee, utter winner! unless your open to a .222 rimmed, just be aware that your looking to keep your chamber pressures to .357mag levels to be safe!

[swamp]

I have been thinking of a 32 mag for a long time.

[country gent]

I have one done up in 218 bee with a shilen 20" sporter barrel 1-14 twist. A great little rifle and its light easy to carry very accurate and just all around fun. Lever was re formed for a pistol gripped stock. New walnut was fitted to it. They are great little rifles and fun. I wouldnt hesitate on 218 bee again

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd agree that cases of the .25-20 family or with the .357 Magnum rim diameter are the best way to go. I have heard of rifles for the .44 Magnum rim giving rise to swollen barrel threads, which probably isn't dangerous, but leads to hard or impossible extraction. I don't know if that diameter requires breechblock work, too. Expansion with the .30-30 head size seems less likely, but perhaps not totally impossible, and I would fancy neither the recoil nor the breechblock work of the .32 Winchester Special, which would surely be weakening. You just might get out of the breechblock work with the .32-40, but that is a complex geometric problem, and I am really only up to geometry on things that don't move.

In the UK some of our most interesting hunting is for the greyhound-sized roe deer, for which the .222 Remington is by far the most popular factory cartridge unless the hunter needs to make one rifle cover larger species too. But I positively (or should it be negatively?) dislike rimless extractors in the Cadet action. It can be done, at quite a cost in trouble or money, and I doubt their reliability. In the 1990s I fed .222 dies with .357 Maximum cases, and got very good results. There was high brass wastage, since I just used the loading dies, but those that didn't crumple were fine. Later Sellier and Bellot cases for the German 5.6x50R became available, with top-end .223 or .222 Magnum performance before the limited extractive effort of the Cadet became a problem. For someone who wants to use cast bullets, .25 or more in the same case would surely be better, and give away little in practice to the .32 Winchester Special. I will eventually get around to a fast-twist, heavy-bullet version of the 5.6x50R.

I don't believe you would go wrong with the pressure of the .327 Federal, but the rim is narrower than I would like in this rifle, and a case with a tapering body, even slightly, would probably eject better.

[barrabruce]

I seem to have a dream of a 25 hornet or 270 hornet straight case.
30 badger sounds awfully inviting as well.
What ever you choose I would be thinking of the reamer for a nice cast bullet throat and leade.
Some of those sammi specs for the older cases are just ...well...chasing **** up hill to find accuracy from the start.
Or so I am lead to believe.
I'd like a multi calibre take down martini...
I'd like a Ferrari for a paddock basher too but that aint gunna happen either.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The principle version of the .270 Hornet is the .270 REN, which would be an excellent choice, well suited to cast and jacketed bullets alike.

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/reloading-manual-data/270%20REN.pdf

If you have access to a lathe you could make a chamber reamer by drilling an ordinary 19/64in. engineering reamer with a carbide drill to insert a pilot, and a rim recess cutter from a 9mm. or 23/64 one. You could polish the chamber to the very slight taper to ensure clean extraction. The only snag with .270 would be getting a barrel blank with a slow enough twist, expecially with cast, but Shilen make them in 11in. People used 8in. in pistols, but I doubt if there was any good reason to do so fast.

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

Here's one of my Cadet's, this one is a 30-30 Wesson, and a very nice cartridge for a Martini.
Brass is easily made from 222 Rimmed, just blown out with a gentle taper.
You can make brass from 357 Maximum, but it comes up a bit short.

151816

And a couple of loaded rounds.

151817

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is an extremely good-looking rifle. If it was in the US I would say a nice-looking piece of maple too, but is it anything Australian?

Not many people reverse the natural order of things by going for a cartridge that was probably at least very thin on the market before the Cadet rifles were made. But the .30-30 Wesson seems about as good for the purpose as they get. My preference would be for the lower bullet. You don't need the full powder space and a very heavy bullet with this light rifle, and a longer bearing surface inside the case is best with cast.

The brass mould you made for me, quite a few years ago, gave excellent results in my Army and Navy rook rifle, which is very like a shortened .25-20. Indeed that is exactly what the dies are.

151818