Getting ready for 1st casting session, and need some advice.

[lumberjacklurch]

I am about 2 days away from my first casting session (.429 boolits), and am a little confused on how I should approach it. The other day, I scored some pewter from my local Goodwill (probably about 5-10oz worth). I have been reading a lot of the the pewter-related posts and have concerns about just putting this pewter in my casting pot when I don't know exactly what is in it. Now, I have about 100lbs of WW ingots and 125lbs of pure lead ingots (both have been smelted). Even though I have a 44 mag, I am only loading 44 special powered loads (~1000/fps). I guess my question is, should I just use the WW and pure lead 50/50 mix for my first session and see how the boolits do, or go for broke and add the pewter to get them a little harder even though I'm not 100% sure it will be a good thing? (also, I am planning on water quenching when casting)

Thanks!

[lightman]

I would save the pewter and try the ww/pure alloy first. If your bullets fill out well and the edges are sharp, you are good to go. If not you can add the pewter.Start with about 1%. Clean your mold and cast enough to get it up to temperature.

[jsizemore]

It's always best to learn the good and bad of any alloy in the smelting pot then the casting pot and clean it up if necessary. The closer to pure lead you get, the worse your mold fill out will be with out adding tin/pewter or raising the temp. You can get by with 1% tin/pewter added to your 50/50 and see how your boolits are filling out. That little tin/pewter's contribution to hardening the alloy is minimal. So, start with 3 ounces of pewter to 20 lbs of 50/50 and go from there. If you run out of pewter, just raise your temp 30-50 degF and try it again. Don't pour and admire your work. Make 30-50 casting pours and then look at your work and go from there. Personally, I'd air cool instead of water drop to make evaluation easier and because I'm shooting a lower pressure load. If you mess up you can remelt and try again. Good Luck!

[GhostHawk]

A save pewter for a need when you have more knowledge and experience, and when you are pushing the boolit harder/faster.

B Don't sweat the small stuff. Get your lead melted, mold warmed. Have tools you might need near like a pair of pliers, safe place to set a hot mold if the phone rings.

C not all boolits are born perfect. When you cut the sprue, look at the top. If you see a cavity, or incomplete fill something was not warm enough. Lead is endlessly reuseable. Melt em down and try again.

Boolits will be HOT coming out. a nice old cotton towel folded works well for catching them.

After you pour watch the lead on top, it will be shiny at first, then go a more dull flat silver. While you are watching you can swap ladle for sprue tapper, etc. I like to wait 2-3 seconds after that silver shine goes away, then tap sprue cutter with 2-3 small taps vs one hard one.

Close the mold and repeat. For any given mold/pot/temp combination you will soon find a rhythm that works for you. For starters try for 4-6 cycles per minute then listen to what the boolits are telling you.

DON'T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF! This is casting lead boolits not rocket science. Chances are in the first 1/2 hour session you are going to make plenty that are good enough to load and shoot. If you get 20 that is success. As is 1 or 100. Speed and quantity come with time and practice.

Welcome to the addiction. There is a magic place in all this where lead flows, boolits fall, time disappears, and you may find yourself with a big grin on your face. Or just a satisfied feeling deep down inside looking at that pile of silver boolits that you made.

If you can cast your own boolits it is a big step towards being self sufficient.

Relax and try to enjoy the journey! First cast only happens once.

[jabo52521]

And don't forget to post pictures of your efforts. We love to see our obsession taking hold of a nearby.��

[country gent]

Several little things to do before the first casting session. The night before ( this gives time for drying and lube to work in place) clean the mould with dish soap and a toothbrush, dont be stingy on the soap or rinse water after. You want a good sudsy foam on the blocks with hot water. Then when dry ( hot water and blockks warmed to water temp will evaporate pretty quickly) very lightly lube the sprue screw plate joint, The handles hinge pin, The alighnment pins, and I also lube the block screws pins thru the handles. I do this with a drop of oil from a pointed skewer or small wire, just a small amount. alighnment pins mould faces a lightly lubed q-tip works well. Pre heat mould close to temp on a hot plate or on top of the pot to get it close. Once you have an idea of temps you can make good casts first or second pour. As to the pewter hold off on it. Use the 50/50 mix as is or with the addition of 1% tin. Solder can be used for this. This alloy with or with out the tin should be fine air cooled or can be water quenched to harden it more. The big trick is when casting cast when sorting sort trying to do both slows casting down and makes holding mould temps hard. Also remember no matter how pretty and shiney that new bullet is it is still hot. Bullets are soft from the mould dont let them bang drop or bump into each other on the towel untill cooled.

[lumberjacklurch]

Thank you all for the excellent advice! I will try to remember to get pictures (I am somewhat forgetful when it comes to that stuff :D) To be honest, I'm water quenching partly so I can see my results quicker, but also so the alloy is harder in case I use it for hotter loads.

[lumberjacklurch]

Well, I got some pictures. I spent 2.5 hours on my first session, and it was quite a learning experience. I learned that I will likely have to tweak the pour screw on my Lee pot after almost every pour (I guess it'll give the boolits time to cool in between casting), otherwise I'm going to keep getting small burns from the splatter. I also learned that I will likely need to add some pewter, as the alloy didn't fill the mold as nicely as I would've liked (but maybe I'm being a bit of a perfectionist). I did manage to get 47 keepers though, and the pot is almost still full.
I also have a couple concerns though. I noticed that my sprue plate is scoring the mold and the screw the sprue plate stops against is scoring the sprue plate (see picture). Is that normal, or am I doing something wrong?
I also included a pic of my pewter score from goodwill.
151259151260151261151262151263

[Yodogsandman]

You need to lubricate the top of the mold and sprue plate. I sometimes break the edge on the sprue plate and notch for the stop screw.

Pour a bigger puddle on the sprue plate as you mold to keep the plate hot. This will prevent rounded bottoms.

You have plenty of pewter! That looks to be about 2-3 lbs there. Good score!

[bangerjim]

Sb add hardness, not Sn. Sn aids in good mold fill-out.

Get some blue 2 cycle engine oil at Walmart for sprue/pin/joint lube for your mold. That little bottle they sell will last you a lifetime.

Always preheat you molds on an electric hotplate to full casting temp B4 starting to get perfect drops from #1.

Your WW/Pb (+ around 2% Sn) mix will work fine for your light 44SP loads.

You did not say how you plan to lube your boolits.

Once you get the hang of this, check out powder coating to let you shoot softer lead mix, no grease smoke, and no leading (with correctly sized boolits to your barrels).

Enjoy the fun!

bangerjim

[RogerDat]

You need to lubricate the top of the mold and sprue plate. I sometimes break the edge on the sprue plate and notch for the stop screw.
In case the term break the edge is unfamiliar. It means take the sharp corner off by running a file or sandpaper or a trimming tool along the sharp machined edge.


ADD SOME OF THE PEWTER. Whole point of having it is to use it to help the metal cast better. Why would one not use it if one has it? Don't waste it but 1% to 2% is not wasting it, that would be using it as intended. Or did you buy it to decorate the shop with? ;-) You are lucky enough to have some good materials so use them.

Melt that pewter down, pour it into a mold, a little bit in muffin/cupcake tins works well to make pewter coins. Then add some to your lead. Postal scale is able to weigh the pewter coins. If you make them fairly consistent thickness once you know the weight of a coin it is easy to figure out how many to add.

In 20# of WW's .125 of a pound (2 oz.) of pewter will give you 1% .33 of a pound (5 oz.) will give you 2% Have a little candle or bees wax handy, tin tends to oxidize on the surface a tiny piece of wax dropped into the melt reduces the tin back into the melt. The exact amount is not critical, it ain't like you are mixing heart medicine, if you put a bit more pewter than you need in it won't hurt anything. At $10 a lb. even if you add more than needed and waste 1/4 lb. it is like $2.50 so don't sweat it, add some and make your casting easier. It really won't hurt anything.

For lube look into Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL) or 45/45/10 both are homemade tumble lube, you squirt a tiny amount on some bullets in a baggie or cool whip container, then tumble them to get a super thin coat of lubricant on the bullets. Dump out the bullets and let them dry. Size if your going to, then follow with second coat. For ease of making it I would search the site for Ben's liquid lube. Don't get much easier than that for lubing. Powder coating is worth pursuing but tumble lube works and is a more direct and less expensive path to get from cast to loaded. PC takes more equipment and money, and time to get started.

[lumberjacklurch]

As far as lubing, I was planning on pan lubing them and then sizing them. I need to get the ingredients for the lube and the sizer (and press) first though.

[RogerDat]

Might want to post you are looking for a press over in Wanted To Buy. May find a member with a used one at a good price.

[Yodogsandman]

Bens Liquid Lube (BLL) is quickly becoming my "go to" lube. So easy to mix, just 60% Lee Liquid Alox and 40% Johnsons Liquid Floor Wax. I've shot it with bullets coated 3 times up to about 2500 FPS. Accuracy is MUCH better than powder coated bullets and tumble lubing is MUCH less time consuming.

I suggest a Lee push thru sizer/luber kit for about $25 per caliber. Then your press becomes your lubrisizer. Pan lubing is do-able but, slow! Also requires large amounts of lube just to fill the pan. Homemade Bens Red or commercial NRA 50/50 alox lubes can be smeared on the bullet with your finger and sized fairly quickly, too and work well..

[lumberjacklurch]

I was definitely looking to buy the Lee sizer. It seems to be the best for the money. I looked at tumble lubing, but it seems very messy and some people say it smokes more. I was going with pan lubing because the end results are more pleasing to the eye. Plus, you don't have to wipe the lube off the top of your boolits either. If there was a way to tumble lube without getting the tip of the boolit covered with lube, then I would try that.

As far as the press, I was going to go with the cheapest single Lee press (I think it's on Amazon for $30). I'd really like the RCBS turret press, but that's $240.

[Yodogsandman]

As far as messy, just put the bullets in a zip lock bag with a few drops of BLL and squish them around, then dump them on wax paper or hardware cloth mounted on a frame. Wait about 2 hours for them to dry. Wipe the lube from the noses... nah, never.

If the Lee press is what you can afford, then get it. Otherwise, think of basic reloading equipment as a lifetime investment and get the best you can afford. The press is the most basic tool that you will use all the time, get a good one. I suggest starting with a good used RCBS press, it has a lifetime warrantee. Others are good too but, don't come with the guarantee.

[lumberjacklurch]

I just remembered a question I forgot to ask, post casting session. Do the bottoms of the boolits HAVE to be smooth to be usable, or can they be slightly pitted? If the former, that lessens my "keepers" from my session. :)

[Yodogsandman]

It will probably only matter if you're already a champion shooter at distance over 50 yards. Just try to improve as you go and and have fun shooting em up!

[Schrag4]

I'm pretty new but it's my understanding that the shape of the bottom doesn't matter except for the edge. It needs to be uniform all the way around. As someone on this site put it, the edge around the base can be thought of as a muzzle crown. If gas can escape on one side before it can escape on the other, it will throw things off.

[RogerDat]

Those Lee "C" presses are certainly a good buy. And you will find a use for it even if you later get a more expensive press. However I don't think you can beet the Lee Classic Cast Turret press at less than $100. http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/lee-turret-press/lee-classic-cast-turret-press

Can do very long rifle cartridges, you can slip the index rod out in a few seconds and use as a single stage press. With the rod out the turret does not rotate and stays locked where you turn it to. The primers drop through the ram and into a tube for disposal. A very nice feature. I consider it a lifetime purchase, I really doubt I will live long enough to wear it out.

I think it is more than 3 times the press that the Lee $30 "C" Press is for $90, significantly less cost than the RCBS turret.

Tumble lube is just easy and effective. Low cost too. Not going to look any different when it is time to shoot it because the lube grooves are inside the brass once loaded. I don't think I have noticed any excessive smoke. It's a gun so it makes noise and smoke if it is working correctly. I also like the way one can have a big coffee can full under the bench ready to load with no worries about the lube melting off, or sticking to each other and pulling the lube out.

[lumberjacklurch]

I looked at the Lee C press, and thought about it as a possibility. However, I think that if I'm going to forego the cheapy Lee press, I'd rather get the Hornady Classic press ($130). I already have the Hornady progressive press, and I really like the bushing setup they have where you can set your dies in the bushing and interchange them within seconds. I think it would be a nicer alternative from a turret press if I was going to use a single stage press. Just my noobie opinion though.

[hutch18414]

You really should think about trying Ben's liquid lube. I just ran 30 full house .44 magnum loads, no leading, no smoke, and a clean bore with just a dry patch. Quick, simple and easy,no mess and no fuss. And lubed boolits store well with a hard finish. No sticking together or lube melting in hot weather.

[Nose Dive]

lumbrejacklurch: Those are some spiffy looking boolits buddy! Wish my first castings had looked that good!

I feel too a bit of the pewter may help the overall 'shinnyness' of the product. You got some, dump it in the smelt pot! But, save the boolits you have...those are dandy boolits!

Did you spend the time on this site, in this section, LEAD-LEAD Alloys" and read all of the stickies? Budget some time, but, there is a wealth of information, technical data, 'custom' smelting and casting techniqes in there that you cannot, cannot, cannot dig out of 20 other information locations. Also, there is some good 'cheat sheets' that tell you how to save time, money, heartache, and tricks to get good boolits out of some not so good smelt materials. And some darn good safety steps while smelting and casting. Again, it will take some TIME, but TIME SPENT LEARNING is not wasted time.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
http://ww1.pewtertankardsflagons.com/

Above are two other sites and info sheets that are jam packed with casting and smelting steps.

You mentioned you were going to water drop. I do that too! Yep...from the mould into a bucket of cold water! I cheat down on my WW and lead mix...by weight I use about 35 to 40% WW and a bit of pewter and water drop. This makes me feel like I am conserving my WW's smelt 'bisquits' and still get my brinnel that I target. But, who knows? And since my smelts are the 'bad news bears' on what is in there, sometimes things come out OK,,,sometimes I have to resmelt to get the desired fill out and appearance I like.

Be sure to read in the stickies about smelting. You can get into trouble and get hurt without know why, how or how come. It is all in there. Just read all you can and learn from the fellas who have been casting boolits for a few years.

Again, Good Work! I want to see your loaded boolits and maybe a few pics of your targets after sending those little honies down range.

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

PS..be sure to read the info about how to make your own lube in Ingot to Target data above. ND

[RogerDat]

....I really like the bushing setup they have where you can set your dies in the bushing and interchange them within seconds. I think it would be a nicer alternative from a turret press if I was going to use a single stage press. Just my noobie opinion though.

Those bushings are nice, they fit in some other presses. I have sort of been considering a Lee Classic single stage and with the stock threaded bushing removed it can take the quick change bushing adapter instead. Hornady makes a good press, Lee does too, as does RCBS. I'm not sure how much price is or should be a factor. It is a tool, has to be comfortable to your hand, suit what you desire to see sitting on your bench.

That hollow ram spent primer collection was the feature that really made the lower price Lee presses stand out for me. Other people have different criteria. I also do use a couple of older C presses just not for primer removal. I do take some enjoyment from how solid a tool they are.

[lumberjacklurch]

Just a quick update, I decided to buy the Redding T-7 turret press. Brownell's has it on sale right now for $270!

[popper]

50/50 COWW/pure will do fine, WD if you want. Reduce the pure for hotter loads. Works for 40SW which is much higher pressure than 44 special. Get some ECO 100 AC oil, wipe it on the top of the mould (it sure is vented nice on top), then wipe off with paper towel when mould is up to temp. Debur the sprue plate on that mould.

[jsizemore]

Did all your thrift store finds have PEWTER stamped into the bottom?

[lumberjacklurch]

Yes, they did. However, I don't think all of them were actually pewter. In the pic I posted, there is a heart-shaped dish. Even though it has "Pewter" stamped on the bottom, when I went to smelt them, it didn't melt. I even let the pot sit longer than necessary for the other pewter to melt. Not sure what it's made of, but it doesn't seem to be pewter.

[lumberjacklurch]

Popper, thanks for the tips. Where can I find that oil?

[Hickok]

Lumberjack, what brand of .44 are you casting/reloading for? Different makes have different needs when shooting cast.

[jsizemore]

The heart shaped piece looks to be Wilton which is an aluminum alloy. If the others melted about the same time as the mug/flagon then they probably are pewter. I treat it as pure tin and start by adding 1-2% and check my boolit fillout. Higher percentage lead requires either more casting alloy temp or tin/pewter to get complete fillout. Higher percentage lead alloys will shrink more the higher the temp. If your mold casts a borderline boolit size wise, then you can drop your temp and add a little tin to get the size and fillout you need.

[popper]

ester 100 (viscosity - medium) ice32 AC oil (no dye), local auto parts store for $6/pint. It will last for your grand kids kids. I smear the sprue plate, top of the mould and pins with a 'Q' tip when cold, heat on the hot plate and wipe off with a paper towel when the mould is up to temp. I quit using 2 stroke oil after I tried this stuff, thanks to Gearnasher. Cast several hundred from a 2x mould before needing to relube.

[lumberjacklurch]

Hickok, I am reloading for a Taurus 44 Mag Tracker. Not my first choice in a revolver, but the price was right at the time.