Major leading in new 629

[stillhere]

What I'm getting is full length leading, in big splotches, starting with the first round. I'm using a proven lube that I use in my my 45 Vaquero and my 686 competitor, neither of which have this problem.
My boolits are typically cast in the 9.5 to 10.5 BH, per the Cabine Tree tester. The current load I'm using is 12.5 grains of 800x with a 240 gr boolit and a moderate crimp.

Over the last week, I've fired a couple hundred fire lapping rounds. But there has been no improvement. The gun is accurate, until the leading ruins that, which doesn't take long.

This is PC Smith that I bought new several months ago. From day one, the leading has been atrocious. At about 600 rounds, I requested that Smith take it back due to what I considered an alignment problem. That is, the the forcing cone was taking on an egg shape. The took it back and rebarreled it and replaced the cylinder. The replacement barrel had a noticeably rougher bore. Concentric tooling chatter is clearly visible. But, the leading stayed the same, even with the rougher bore.

As for the dimensions, slugging the cylinder and the bore yielded the following: all throats at .4295. Bore at .4285.
All of my boolits are lubesized to .430. So, those number don't look to shabby to me. In fact, the relationship is very similar to my Vaquero and my 686 PC and neither have this problem.

Could the alignment problem have been with the frame that would not have been cured by replacing teh barrel and cylinder? I'm starting to see similar wear in the forcing cone. More wear toward the top (near the the top strap).

I fire one round, and there is lead all up and down the bore. That ain't right.

[9.3X62AL]

Revolvers don't just "clock" right and left in a circle.......they also need to index vertically, the chambers need to be in line with bore line, and the frame window needs to be square. The egg-shaped wear sounds like a cylinder orientation issue to me.

[stillhere]

Revolvers don't just "clock" right and left in a circle.......they also need to index vertically, the chambers need to be in line with bore line, and the frame window needs to be square. The egg-shaped wear sounds like a cylinder orientation issue to me.

Right. What I was asking in my post regarding that issue is whether the frame could be the problem since they already replaced the cylinder in response to the egg shaped forcing cone.

[Joni Lynn]

I haven't seen this mentioned for several years but S&W uses a crush fit to mate the barrel to the frame. This sometimes results in what used to be called a choke point where the barrel/frame threads are. My 29-9 leads so badly that it has become a safe queen due to this. Given the standards with which they hold their dimensions I would doubt that the issue is an out of size or dimension frame.
Best wishes.

[9.3X62AL]

It seems like a possibility to me, sitting here miles away without benefit of hands-on look-see. One other possibility.......your revolver's internal dimensions sound about as perfect as can be, so you might mic your expander die's spud diameter. I say this because the spud in my RCBS T/C die set in 44 Spec/Mag mics at .424", which is USELESS for case prep on brass meant to seat .431" bullets into. With an undersized spud expanding your brass (or, rather, failing to do so sufficiently) the case mouths can reduce the diameter of the seated bullet. I use a .429" expander spud for my .431" castings, and a .427" spud for the .429" bullets used in my 44-40 WCF.

ETA--Joni's info about the choke point is germane.

[stillhere]

It seems like a possibility to me, sitting here miles away without benefit of hands-on look-see. One other possibility.......your revolver's internal dimensions sound about as perfect as can be, so you might mic your expander die's spud diameter. I say this because the spud in my RCBS T/C die set in 44 Spec/Mag mics at .424", which is USELESS for case prep on brass meant to seat .431" bullets into. With an undersized spud expanding your brass (or, rather, failing to do so sufficiently) the case mouths can reduce the diameter of the seated bullet. I use a .429" expander spud for my .431" castings, and a .427" spud for the .429" bullets used in my 44-40 WCF.
ETA--Joni's info about the choke point is germane.

I just pulled apart one of the rounds. Looks ok at .4295 on the lowest driving band and .430 at the next two diving bands. Or, is sub .430 on the bottom band a potential cause of leading?

[9.3X62AL]

Doesn't seem likely to me. As you know well, never say "never" and never say "always" in this hobby field--but the ammo sounds fine to me. Allegedly, progressive powder burn impulses aren't known to "bump up" harder tri-metal alloy bullets like soft lead or lead-tin alloys can be by black powder, but 15K to 40K PSI hitting a bullet base seems (empirically, to me) to be able to affect diameter a few tenths of thousandths. At least.

That egg-shaped wear pattern on the forcing cone just ain't right.

[Markbo]

...Concentric tooling chatter is clearly visible....

Why are you surprised there is leading???

[stillhere]

...Concentric tooling chatter is clearly visible....

Why are you surprised there is leading???




I'm not surprised, actually. I don't know, and I don't pretend to know what the actual cause of the leading is. Perhaps it's something else. My 686 has similar markings and it doesn't lead.

[Joni Lynn]

Several of my S&W revolvers have bores that look like they used a broken reamer to make them. I think a Pennsylvania groundhog could have made a smoother bore than what is apparent in my 29-5 Classic.

[Piedmont]

I would like to know what bullet lube is being used and whether it is a tumble lube or one that goes in lube groove. When pushing pressures I much prefer a conventional lube (not tumble).

[MtGun44]

Same as Piedmont. What lube exactly?

[stillhere]

I would like to know what bullet lube is being used and whether it is a tumble lube or one that goes in lube groove. When pushing pressures I much prefer a conventional lube (not tumble).

The lube I am using is one recommended by Glen Fryxell, which is 50% beeswax and 50% Sta-lube extreme pressure moly grease. I use a SAECO Lubrisizer to apply it (and size the boolits).

[Shuz]

Revolvers don't just "clock" right and left in a circle.......they also need to index vertically, the chambers need to be in line with bore line, and the frame window needs to be square. The egg-shaped wear sounds like a cylinder orientation issue to me.

Al nailed this one! I'd call S&W and talk with someone knowledgeable about this issue. Evidently even PC guns have issues!

[stillhere]

I just got an email from SW warranty. They want to know if I've tried different ammo to see if the problem persists? Yes, I replied, I have tried all kinds of stuff....same problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

Either send it back again or fire lap the barrel

[Three44s]

Lloyd,

He has shot a lot of lapping rounds already.

Best regards

Three 44s

[Shuz]

stillhere--Sounds like S&W is about to admit they have a problem with your piece. Hang in there and demand they send you a Fed-Ex call slip to pick up your gun so they "can at least look at it" and check for proper indexing. My guess is you'll end up with a new frame once they look at it.

[Lloyd Smale]

sure glad I bought all the smiths I have back before this kind of junk came from them. Seems theres problems with the early ones and the newest. About every 29 or 629 ive owned or shot came out of the good ones because ive yet to find one that's not an exceptional shooter. My 4 inch 629 would be one of the last guns to leave this house if I had to start selling

[Larry Gibson]

The current load I'm using is 12.5 grains of 800x with a 240 gr boolit and a moderate crimp.

Might be a bit much 800X for that soft a bullet with that lube. I'd suggest a harder alloy or a lighter powder charge. A known load such as 8.5 - 10 gr of Unique under that bullet might be a good test.

Larry Gibson

[Messy bear]

The current load I'm using is 12.5 grains of 800x with a 240 gr boolit and a moderate crimp.

Might be a bit much 800X for that soft a bullet with that lube. I'd suggest a harder alloy or a lighter powder charge. A known load such as 8.5 - 10 gr of Unique under that bullet might be a good test.

Larry Gibson
I wondered about that too. I have had good luck with 8 - 8.5 gr unique in 44 's with 250 to 260 gr.

[stillhere]

The current load I'm using is 12.5 grains of 800x with a 240 gr boolit and a moderate crimp.

Might be a bit much 800X for that soft a bullet with that lube. I'd suggest a harder alloy or a lighter powder charge. A known load such as 8.5 - 10 gr of Unique under that bullet might be a good test.

Larry Gibson

Looks like the the remaining stock of this load is testing closer to 12.5 or a bit higher on the Cabine Tree. I suppose that's the result of age hardening. I last shot these less than a week ago and no change in the leading.

I'm going to make a few batches of 50 rounds using some lighter loads with different powders to look for any difference. One thing I can say for certain is that of the loads I've tried (and there have been several ranging from powder puff to hot), I haven't yet seen anything that didn't leave significant amounts of lead.

All of the fire lapping rounds have made some difference in two areas, though. First, I can feel the bore is smoother when running a tight patch. Second, there used to be a small constriction where it thread to the frame. I would have expected that to make a big difference but it didn't.
I have no complaints about accuracy, and never have....except when the leading sets in.

ps. I hear what you're saying about trying a lighter load, and perhaps that might make things better, but I'm still quite sure there is an unidentified problem.

I have a Henry Big Boy in 45, and I have shot anything and everything from powder puffs to heavy H110 loads with a variety of my cast and commercial (****) cast boolits with lousy lubes, and still no lead.

Am I expecting too much from Smith's finest?

[44man]

Harden the boolits more. Just make sure fit is right. You might be sizing the soft lead when you seat or when it tries to open the crimp.
Moly is not a good lube either.
Light loads are not understood either. pressure is INSTANT, not building as a boolit moves down the bore. I bet you are slumping the boolit. Skid too.
It is possible to have a cylinder too tight on the pin. I see guys fit a new pin so tight there is no motion, not good. Accuracy goes south so they want to make the gun even tighter. Too tight will wear the cone and rifling away and make throats oblong. It is amazing how fast they wear but if you allow the boolit to clock the cylinder, you will never wear out a revolver.

[stillhere]

Harden the boolits more. Just make sure fit is right. You might be sizing the soft lead when you seat or when it tries to open the crimp.
Moly is not a good lube either.
Light loads are not understood either. pressure is INSTANT, not building as a boolit moves down the bore. I bet you are slumping the boolit. Skid too.
It is possible to have a cylinder too tight on the pin. I see guys fit a new pin so tight there is no motion, not good. Accuracy goes south so they want to make the gun even tighter. Too tight will wear the cone and rifling away and make throats oblong. It is amazing how fast they wear but if you allow the boolit to clock the cylinder, you will never wear out a revolver.

Couple questions for you... how much more hardening are you suggesting? I have bullets up in the 20s BH that give the same results.
Can you elaborate a little on the slumping and skidding you refer to?

What "pin" are you referring to? I haven't made any mechanical modifications to the gun and the throats are not oblong. The forcing cone, however is starting to show subtle signs of oblong wear... which was the same problem that presented shortly after I bought the gun new. As a result of that issue, Smith did replace the

As for the moly, what is the problem? What would you recommend instead?

I don't seat bullets until they've aged at least a a week. I pulled a few and tooks some measurements to make sure that they were not getting swaged down while seating them and they were not.
Thanks...

[Bodydoc447]

Brian Pearce wrote an article on the new S&W Model 69 a few months back in which he described leading, especially with plain based bullets. He potentially ascribed it to EDC method of its rifling. Is this a possibility in your 629?
Doc

[44man]

Stillhere, I see no problems with your boolits, Mine are 20-22 bhn. You will not slump or skid where you are.
I refer to the cylinder pin. But it sounds like your gun does not have alignment to the bore. That should be S&W's problem for sure. Even the barrel can be bored a few thousands off. Or the frame.
I tried all kinds of moly lubes and never had any luck. I even seen some that would build the stuff up in the bore and it is a chore to remove. I found Felix to be as good as it gets.
It seems as if your leading is caused by the boolit entering off center and letting gas past.
Some will say to soften the boolit so it seals better and it might just work. But it does not solve the wear.

[stillhere]

Brian Pearce wrote an article on the new S&W Model 69 a few months back in which he described leading, especially with plain based bullets. He potentially ascribed it to EDC method of its rifling. Is this a possibility in your 629?
Doc

I have wondered about that as well but I haven't been able to find anything to support it. Nor have I been able able to locate the article by Pearce. Perhaps it's behind a paywall.

But suppose there is something to that. Then what? Does Smith bear some responsibility in admitting this, much as Glock has warned owners of its polygon-rifled handguns that cast bullets should be avoided?

Frankly, I expect Smith and Wesson revolvers to be able to shoot lead bullets, to the extent, of course, that those bullets are of appropriate hardness, shape, size and are suitably lubed. Moreover, as it's PC gun, I don't have any qualms about holding them to making it right.

I've pretty much concluded that Smith builds into their business model that a good number of their guns are going to leave the factory not up to snuff and that they can surely count on a large majority of those guns never being returned for re-work simply because the owners don't really shoot them enough to know the difference.

I'm not one of those owners. I shoot, and shoot a lot and I don't have any trouble expecting them to fix it right, even if it takes three trips back to the factory as it did with my 686 PC.

[stillhere]

Stillhere, I see no problems with your boolits, Mine are 20-22 bhn. You will not slump or skid where you are.
I refer to the cylinder pin. But it sounds like your gun does not have alignment to the bore. That should be S&W's problem for sure. Even the barrel can be bored a few thousands off. Or the frame.
I tried all kinds of moly lubes and never had any luck. I even seen some that would build the stuff up in the bore and it is a chore to remove. I found Felix to be as good as it gets.
It seems as if your leading is caused by the boolit entering off center and letting gas past.
Some will say to soften the boolit so it seals better and it might just work. But it does not solve the wear.

Ok..I understand.

I'm sort of thinking an alignment problem as well. The throats seem ok and the bore seems ok, at least dimensionally. Still rougher than I think it should be. But the leading starts immediately past the forcing cone.

The type (splotchiness) and extent (equally through the length of the barrel) would seem to indicate that the seal is being breached very early in the bullet's travel. But then throats are slugging at .4295, and the bore at .4285. My bullets are sized to .430.

What else could it be? Rough forcing cone?

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Sounds like a flaw in their build. They should fix or replace it. If S&W won't fix it, you're looking at "fire lapping". I have "fire lapped" a couple of revolvers with extremely rough bores that leaded terribly. I have been successful in correcting them all. I use a quite soft bullet. BHN 12 is too hard I believe. You can embed the abrasive easier on a softer bullet, and I believe it will squish around some to do it's job. It might take 50 or so embedded with valve grinding compound to get the "choke" out if the barrel constriction is where it screws into the frame.

[stillhere]

Sounds like a flaw in their build. They should fix or replace it. If S&W won't fix it, you're looking at "fire lapping". I have "fire lapped" a couple of revolvers with extremely rough bores that leaded terribly. I have been successful in correcting them all. I use a quite soft bullet. BHN 12 is too hard I believe. You can embed the abrasive easier on a softer bullet, and I believe it will squish around some to do it's job. It might take 50 or so embedded with valve grinding compound to get the "choke" out if the barrel constriction is where it screws into the frame.

Already did a bunch of firelapping using soft lead bullets backwards in the case with no real crimp. It smoothed the bore (not perfectly, but it was really rough before) but the leading is almost exactly as it was.

I can't perceive any constriction in the bore. Certainly not like my New Vaquero 45 has which doesn't lead at all and has commendable accuracy.

[44man]

Lacking a range rod, you can see a problem sometimes. Make sure the gun is empty of course. Shine a very strong light at the gap or back of the cylinder, whatever works best. White paper behind the cylinder will help.
Look down the center of the barrel, you should not see any edge of a throat protruding.
Yes, you can actually see it if it is off.
If there is some at the sides and you turn the cylinder against the stop with your thumb and finger, it should go away and is OK. The boolit will steer the cylinder. Top or bottom with a tight pin and it will not move.

[Maximumbob54]

This sounds like way more BS has been put up with than needed. Number one, it's a top shelf brand with a lifetime warranty. If it doesn't shoot perfect from the get go then demand it be taken in for repair. Number two, Tooling chatter? Seriously? Upon first inspection it should have gone back. Number three, this is already a top shelf brand with a price to match and being a PC gun means even more was paid for it. Call them up and demand satisfaction. You paid for it, they claim it, so make it happen.

Jeeze, if this had been a Taurus gun then there would be laughter and lamentations in this thread. This is a S&W PC gun. MAKE THEM FIX IT.

[stillhere]

This sounds like way more BS has been put up with than needed. Number one, it's a top shelf brand with a lifetime warranty. If it doesn't shoot perfect from the get go then demand it be taken in for repair. Number two, Tooling chatter? Seriously? Upon first inspection it should have gone back. Number three, this is already a top shelf brand with a price to match and being a PC gun means even more was paid for it. Call them up and demand satisfaction. You paid for it, they claim it, so make it happen.

Jeeze, if this had been a Taurus gun then there would be laughter and lamentations in this thread. This is a S&W PC gun. MAKE THEM FIX IT.

Agreed; and it's shipping out today.

[Maximumbob54]

Outstanding. Now here's hoping S&W does what they should have done in the first place. It's one thing when a lego style of construction gun rolls off the production line with problems but it's just ridiculous this is a PC gun that is supposed to be getting all this hands-on time and testing and still has this many issues.

[stillhere]

Outstanding. Now here's hoping S&W does what they should have done in the first place. It's one thing when a lego style of construction gun rolls off the production line with problems but it's just ridiculous this is a PC gun that is supposed to be getting all this hands-on time and testing and still has this many issues.

Right now, I'm drafting a short but pointed note discussing the problem and my expectations. I don't necessarily expect the gunsmith (or whatever they are now) to pay it any attention, and that's fine. If they do, they do. However, if I can figure out how to, I would like to escalate this beyond the shop floor. I actually shoot my guns, and I shoot them a lot, so I need them work and work well. I don't want to allow them to apply the same standard to this gun as they might to the large majority of their guns which will be shot so infrequently that the shooters wouldn't know if there was a problem.

I understand that big organizations can be creaky and backwards in their operations despite their best intentions. I like Smith a lot and I'm willing to work with them if they are with me.

Anyway, off to FedEx.

[dubber123]

Lacking a range rod, you can see a problem sometimes. Make sure the gun is empty of course. Shine a very strong light at the gap or back of the cylinder, whatever works best. White paper behind the cylinder will help.
Look down the center of the barrel, you should not see any edge of a throat protruding.
Yes, you can actually see it if it is off.
If there is some at the sides and you turn the cylinder against the stop with your thumb and finger, it should go away and is OK. The boolit will steer the cylinder. Top or bottom with a tight pin and it will not move.

This really does work, if you have a reasonably sharp eye. I have done this on suspect guns where nothing seemed to help, and it is surprising what you see some times. The worst was a Ruger Security Six. It had 3 very visibly off line chambers, and nothing I did was going to fix that. It shot terribly. Down the road it went to guy who was happy with 4" 25 yard groups.

[Shuz]

Agreed; and it's shipping out today.
I hope you keep us posted concerning this issue.

[stillhere]

I hope you keep us posted concerning this issue.

You can count on that.

[9.3X62AL]

Best of luck......S&W is usually pretty accommodating in these matters. Once I'm settled from the move, I have a pre-27 N-frame 357 Magnum that needs some TLC.

[stillhere]

Best of luck......S&W is usually pretty accommodating in these matters. Once I'm settled from the move, I have a pre-27 N-frame 357 Magnum that needs some TLC.

Agreed, although they sometimes rush things, in my experience. My 686 had to go back three times, and one of those times was a due to a really careless and obvious mistake they made during trip number two.

But, in the end, all was well.

[johnson1942]

im going to mention something but you guys and gals have to know i know nothing about alignment and such and all that stuff. in the last year i aquired a ROA and put a conversion cylinder in it and i also aquired a 1871 uberti open top 38 special. i shoot what ever lead i have in a primitive slug of a certain with and swage it to a bullet for the 45 long colt. it is hollow base and has a very short nose. i use blackhorn 209 powder and this in my mind is how i prevent leading is i put a 60thousands thick hard fiber wad between the bullets base and the powder. i use no lube and my barrel in the long colt is very clean and shiny. the 38 is shot with a .38 round ball of pure lead reduced to .357. a 60 thousands hard fiber wad is also place between the bullet and powder. the wads in both guns are slightly over sized so they are very very tight in barrel behind the bullet. the 38 also uses no lube and i use both black horn 209 powder and reloader 7 compressed and both shoot very very well in that gun. no leading at all of any kind. i used to have a real colt ssa and when i shot it with out the wad it leaded and when i use the wad it didnt lead. i use the same wads used in 45/70, i mean the same 60 thousands hard fiber material. years ago i bought 3 or 4 wad cutter that make perfect wads on a loading press. was pricey but woth it. that is my only thing i can say from experience from the real colt to the ROA and the 1871. shot some 30 to 1 to day swaged for the long colt. all i had to do was clean the small amount of dry soot out of the barrel, again no lead at all. you never know, it may help you also. i would never dare to shoot mine with out the wads. another thing i remember from a patient of mine who was a big time rancher and shoot a lot of guns was this. he solved the problem by buying a couple of firm sticks of a real good lube and boiling some water in a pie makeing plate and then melting the two stick of lube in the water. it forms a thin sheet of lube on the water. you let that cool and then turn slightly and let the water drain out. then turn over carefully to keep the sheet of lube intact and palce on a paper towel. when you load take the case with powder in it and press through this sheet and form a firm dry wafer of lube between the powder and the bullet. he said when the powder went off it pushed the lube forward with the bullet and turned to a lube vapor. it stopped fouling and leading for him and the barrel was always lubed for the next shot. i never used that method but he swore by it. for me hard fiber wads work just fine. never know it may help also.

[jmoore]

Brian Pearce wrote an article on the new S&W Model 69 a few months back in which he described leading, especially with plain based bullets. He potentially ascribed it to EDC method of its rifling. Is this a possibility in your 629?
Doc

Have had no dramas out of a 69 nor two ECM'ed rifling 629-6s with lead projectiles. In fact, they've been quite good, better than most of my older .44s. Have been using the 629s for IHMSA, so long range accuracy with the ability to run a number of rounds without leading is paramount! Turkeys are the smallest MOA-wise, and you don't shoot those until you've 25 rounds downrange. But I generally don't scrub bores unless absolutely required. Takes some time for things to settle down again, sometimes. Have gone well over a year without cleaning the bore of one, so far, and it gets nothing but bare lead boolits. (with lube, of course!)

[Mal Paso]

I looked up ECM: http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/05/rifling-manufacturing-electro-chemical.html

I have a Colt with an EDM barrel. It is like a mirror, no machine marks.

I don't think it's the process but Quality Control.

I had a MIM firing pin fail, the tip cratered. I was complaining here about MIM and someone here pointed out that when a machined firing pin fails it snaps and you're done shooting. I touched up the MIM pin with a file to keep it from hanging in the primer and kept shooting until the new ones arrived. I put MIM back in, the machined one in the grip for luck.

[Bodydoc447]

Have had no dramas out of a 69 nor two ECM'ed rifling 629-6s with lead projectiles. In fact, they've been quite good, better than most of my older .44s. Have been using the 629s for IHMSA, so long range accuracy with the ability to run a number of rounds without leading is paramount! Turkeys are the smallest MOA-wise, and you don't shoot those until you've 25 rounds downrange. But I generally don't scrub bores unless absolutely required. Takes some time for things to settle down again, sometimes. Have gone well over a year without cleaning the bore of one, so far, and it gets nothing but bare lead boolits. (with lube, of course!)


That's good information. Maybe the bore was a little rougher on his (Mr. Pearce's) example than others.

[stillhere]

Update:
I got the gun back from Smith. They say everything is "in spec", whatever that means. However, somebody tried to polish the forcing cone. I say "tried" because it looks far worse than before. That reamer looks like it had a serrated cutting edge, and the transition to rifling is anything but square and clean. Looks like he took a reamer with chipped cutting edges and attacked the forcing cone from an angle, not head on. Basically, it looks like hell.

I sent them an email reply noting my observations. A reply came shortly, with an offer for a shipping label so they could "take another look at it". I replied that I what I really wanted was for them to find the problem(s) and then fix or replace accordingly. Haven't heard back, nor have I received the promised shipping label. Not sure I'd even bother at this point.

No, I have not yet shot it, but I will be doing so shortly. I'm also trying to get some good pictures, which is hard to do. I've seen lousy forcing cone jobs but this really top them all. The gunsmith or whatever he is took something that at least looked decent (not great) and made it truly terrible.

[Shuz]

stillhere--I'd call Smith if I were you and demand a call slip to send it back.

[stillhere]

What should the throats be on a 44 ? I slugged them again today, and they all come out at .430 on the dot. The bullets I used are all sized to .430. I then took one of those bullets I used to check the throats and slugged the bore, but since they use 5 lands, measuring was not really possible with calipers. I did note, however, that the bullet was quite snug. So, it seems that the dimensional relationships are appropriate. Yet, I'm getting leading like crazy. What's funny is that with my Ruger 45 Colt Vaquero, I couldn't get that gun to lead if I tried. And it has an obvious constriction where the barrel threads in.

If I send it back to Smith, what are they going to do? If the dimension are right, what can the problem be? Alignment is all I can come up with, but that's just speculation on my part.

[dkf]

Throats can vary quite a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer and gun to gun. The throats on my 84' Redhawk are .432" and within .0003" of each other which is pretty darn good. My dad has a Redhawk that was built around the same time in the 80's and the throats are between .432" and .4325". I lucked out in that I can share my cast loads with his Redhawk as they gauge the same. I measure throats with gauge pins.

I hope you eventually get the gun shooting good without leading but I do suspect they will tell you throat size is within spec and won't touch them. The **** forcing cone job though, they should fix. Frankly you may be best off getting the forcing cone fixed up, sell the gun to a jacketed only shooter and buy another gun.

[Mal Paso]

SAAMI Spec for 44Mag throats is .4325".

Late model 629s have .4285 throats like your pin gauges said. Don't use a caliper. A cheap Micrometer will do better. http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html Then check it against your pin gauges.

Got a local gun smith? A few minutes might clear things up.

[Ramjet-SS]

I haven't seen this mentioned for several years but S&W uses a crush fit to mate the barrel to the frame. This sometimes results in what used to be called a choke point where the barrel/frame threads are. My 29-9 leads so badly that it has become a safe queen due to this. Given the standards with which they hold their dimensions I would doubt that the issue is an out of size or dimension frame.
Best wishes.

Absolutely same issue with my model 29 nickel plated Classic. But I refuse to make it a safe queen it shoots the half jacket 240 grain HP very accurately so it is relegated to that but shoot the heck out of that gun.

Something else you may consider is a 11 deg forcing cone. That's one thing I am going to try.

[Ramjet-SS]

SAAMI Spec for 44Mag throats is .4325".

Late model 629s have .4285 throats like your pin gauges said. Don't use a caliper. A cheap Micrometer will do better. http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html Then check it against your pin gauges.

Got a local gun smith? A few minutes might clear things up.

All good except the Habor Freight.......they have gun buster signs in everyone I ever gone too those commie &?$!()?&$ will not get one penny of mine..........NOT ONE.

[MtGun44]

Not here in KS. Carry in HF all the time.

[c1skout]

No signs in my local one either.

[stillhere]

Somebody else reminded me of that SAAMI spec as well. I had to wonder what happens to that .430 cast boolit in a .4325 throat? Gas cutting or obturation? Or something else? Hell, if reaming the throats out to the SAAMI spec would fix the problem, I'd be all over that, and on my own dime, too.

But, yeah, time with a pistolsmith is probably a good idea. Otherwise, I'm just spinning my wheels with S&W, it seems.


SAAMI Spec for 44Mag throats is .4325".

Late model 629s have .4285 throats like your pin gauges said. Don't use a caliper. A cheap Micrometer will do better. http://www.harborfreight.com/0-to-1-inch-range-digital-micrometer-895.html Then check it against your pin gauges.

Got a local gun smith? A few minutes might clear things up.

[Mal Paso]

My Redhawk has .4325" throats (.429" groove) and it shoots .431" Boolits just fine. The Colt and the 629 throats were reamed to .4313" over .430" and .429" grooves respectively.

S&W intends the throats to be tight for jackets and has said so. The barrel is another matter. I would nail down the barrel measurements before I did anything else. It can help your position if you have the smith find a problem send it in. Then if you wish have Doug Guy ream the throats.

When I bought my 6" half lug 629 used and the barrel was leaded was so bad you couldn't see the rifling. I didn't do much better with commercial lead bullets and hard blue lube. I started casting my own and improved the fit and lube. The final step was reaming the cylinder throats. Now after 200 rounds it's a couple strokes with a bronze brush and a dry patch. And clean the lube from the Cylinder Yoke and Frame. Good lube goes everywhere with none on a recovered bullet.

[stillhere]

Thanks for the information. I had not heard that Smith intended the throats to be optimized for jacketed bullets by being a little tight.


My Redhawk has .4325" throats (.429" groove) and it shoots .431" Boolits just fine. The Colt and the 629 throats were reamed to .4313" over .430" and .429" grooves respectively.

S&W intends the throats to be tight for jackets and has said so. The barrel is another matter. I would nail down the barrel measurements before I did anything else. It can help your position if you have the smith find a problem send it in. Then if you wish have Doug Guy ream the throats.

When I bought my 6" half lug 629 used and the barrel was leaded was so bad you couldn't see the rifling. I didn't do much better with commercial lead bullets and hard blue lube. I started casting my own and improved the fit and lube. The final step was reaming the cylinder throats. Now after 200 rounds it's a couple strokes with a bronze brush and a dry patch. And clean the lube from the Cylinder Yoke and Frame. Good lube goes everywhere with none on a recovered bullet.

[44man]

Somebody else reminded me of that SAAMI spec as well. I had to wonder what happens to that .430 cast boolit in a .4325 throat? Gas cutting or obturation? Or something else? Hell, if reaming the throats out to the SAAMI spec would fix the problem, I'd be all over that, and on my own dime, too.

But, yeah, time with a pistolsmith is probably a good idea. Otherwise, I'm just spinning my wheels with S&W, it seems.
Not much of anything if it is tough enough. My throats are .4324" with a .430" groove and shoots anything from .430" to .432".
Yes the ideal would be throats .0005" over groove but hard to come by.