S&W 1917 load thoughts, please!

[makicjf]

I picked up a good condition 1917 manufactured in May, 1917 that locks up, bore shines, but is missing the "US property" stamp and lanyard ring. Got it cheap given what others are going for I want to use it to shoot a version of "Wild Bunch' ( this also allows my wild bunch shooting to be practice for my IPSC shooting). The throats are odd. the RCBS 225 cav at .454 will just pass through the front with a slight push, but will not pass from the other side. I'm guessing the trhoats were bored from the front and have a slight taper. The 230 cm which drops at .452 and roll crimped into the crimp groove will drop in and seat well. I only need minute of steel accuracy out to 25 yards, but I'd hate to have to scrub a ton of lead from the old lady. If I seat the 225 cav to the shoulder and taper crimp it seats , but I'm pretty sure the FCD is squeezing the bullet to .452 anyway when I seat that way. Will fitting the back of the throat work "good 'enuff"?
Jason

[Outpost75]

If your bullets are no harder than wheelweights, and you are using a fast-burning powder like Bullseye, they will slug up.
I wouldn't worry about the .452 if they are well lubricated.

[makicjf]

I shot six of the cav 225 seated deep over 4.0 of red dot last night and did not see any crud, so you may be right. I'll cast some 230 cm's tonight and give them a go. I'm only going o load hot enough to make the 165 pf which is 717 fps.... I'll be happy if I get decent accuracy anywhere from there to 750 fps. I can't shoot it much until the presentation grips come in on Friday. I have a bone callous on the inside of my thumb exactly where the frame sits/hits from 22 years of swinging a hammer... even the powder puff loads kill me when steel hits bone. The presentation grips have worked for my 625, redhawk in 45 colt.... they should work for the grand old war horse as well!
Jason

[Outpost75]

I shot six of the cav 225 seated deep over 4.0 of red dot last night and did not see any crud, so you may be right. I'll cast some 230 cm's tonight and give them a go. I'm only going o load hot enough to make the 165 pf which is 717 fps.... I'll be happy if I get decent accuracy anywhere from there to 750 fps. I can't shoot it much until the presentation grips come in on Friday. I have a bone callous on the inside of my thumb exactly where the frame sits/hits from 22 years of swinging a hammer... even the powder puff loads kill me when steel hits bone. The presentation grips have worked for my 625, redhawk in 45 colt.... they should work for the grand old war horse as well!
Jason

Some chronograph data from my S&W .45 Hand Ejector Model of 1950 Military which may save you some legwork:

Saeco #954 230-gr. FN "Cowboy" bullet, similar to your RCBS 45-230CM

4.0 Bullseye 693 fps, 10 Sd
4.5 Bullseye 742 fps, 12 Sd
5.0 Bullseye 816 fps, 9 Sd
4.0 WST 610 fps, 15 Sd
4.5 WST 698 fps, 9 Sd
TW55 Ball 807 fps, 10 Sd
151061

[flint45]

The three I have love ww alloy and 4.5 gr. red dot. with 200-250 gr. .454 boolit.

[makicjf]

Thanks guys. I must have a fast barrel or the roll crimp in the rcbs 230 cm built pressure...4.5 red dot under the 230 cm sized to .452, lubed with lla, with a modest roll crimp at an oal of 1.20 got me a consistent 880+ fps. I had to drop well below the DNR level to get 810 fps. 3.6 of red dot was 720-780 and 3.8 settled in to 808-820 with a tidy ES . I also tried the same load with the lee 230 tc taper crimped to .469 and an oal 1.170 and got the same results. If they don't walk out I think I'll use the lee 230 tc as it will also work in my 1911's.
Jason

[Outpost75]

Cylinder gap plays a big factor. With cartridges such as the .38 Special, .44 Special or .45 ACP, using fast-burning powders such as Bullseye or 231, firing lead bullets in standard pressure, not +P loads, you can expect a Delta-V of about 10 fps for each 0.001" change in cylinder gap from the Mean Assembly Tolerance. This means that a revolver having a minimum cylinder gap of 0.003" will shoot about 30 fps faster than an identical revolver at Mean Assembly Tolerance having 0.006" cylinder gap, and about 50 fps faster than one at Maximum tolerance of 0.008". This means that it entirely possible for a "tight" 2" or 2-1/2" gun to shoot faster than a "loose" 4-inch gun.

My .45 Hand Ejector has 0.008" cylinder gap, which is normal for the era, and shoots about 30-40 fps slower than an M1911 pistol with nearly new barrel, firing the same lot of ammo. My Ruger Convertible Blackhawk 4-5/8" has 0.003" cylinder gap and shoots on average about 10-20 fps faster with the same ammo than my M1911 because you gain more velocity for the added expansion ratio over the length of the cylinder than you lose through the cylinder gap, thanks to its snug cylinder throats which don't experience gas blow-by with jacketed bullets, as does the S&W .45 HE with .455 throats!

[376Steyr]

Don't be afraid to try a rock-hard bullet with some fast burning powder. See here for some more discussion on the idea: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?288801-452190-GC-SWC-for-45-Auto-Rim

[Le Loup Solitaire]

In my S&W 1917 I have always used the RCBS 225 grain or the H&G #34 with 4.1 grains of Red Dot. It groups well, burns clean with moderate recoil. Bullets are sized .451 with NRA old formula 50/50 and a slight taper crimp. LLS