'famous' writers- warning RANT

[Littleton Shot Maker]

For you folks in the Industry ( and those casual shooters too) : How ofter are you called by some author of some monthly rag that says , they have a following that sending in a sample or the item you make will go along way to get you exposure to many many folks they talk to, or the readers of their writings or followers of radio show/ blog.

Since we used to do Bullets in a major commercial scale we would send out samples to various mags ( named deleted due to lawyers and the effect they have on me) And I know the bullets got shot and the guy loved them but the minute I asked for some INK on paper or cash to pay for more ""samples"" then it's as if the lights went dark...

We sponsored a couple shooters with our bullets, they jumped ship several thousand bullets later but...- Sponsored does not mean get bullets fro free. Well turned out 'he' was Sponsored by 3 bullets outfits all at the same time...WOW and one Co. was giving him and his dad bullets for free.

Crazy day when two of those bullets co.s where at the same event with said shooter...NO MORE FREE RIDES there...shooter wins class and had to answer to BOTH outfits right then!! Who's bullets?? the 3rd outfit's of course, the Co not there that day cause they are way TOO big to go to Local / regional/ state shoots ....

Ramshot put us in their load data in the 2nd or 3rd edition but that was 2001- 02??
It was very good for us and I have to thank them for that. and Pat Ellinghouse (RIP great guy miss him a TON )

But what's up? Do these guy use their names and mag's names to just get stuff for free?? AND then leave the Co. sending goods out to hang?? Or am I special?? DiD I tap into the wrong group of shooter/ reloader writers ???


They Can't shut up to listen and so full of Bull it shoot out both ears. And they write the same stuff year after year hashing out info the was written 20-30 years ago as if it where THE NEW Gun Gospel>

Sorry, too much Black Tea with tons of raw sugar- late night trying to clear the books and the same names come up over and over...DOUG B.- looking right at YOUR name in my books.

NOW, you can always say I am A #######-****** for sending anything to any one with out payment or contract or some quid pro quo. It's ok I call my self worse as does the wife almost every day.
At least it's a short list - one hand covers the famous guys the second hand with one finger begins the other short list, wanna guess what finger i'd be holding up right now..?

RANT OVER

[Wayne Smith]

So ... you have found out that we are all desperately sinful. Some of us with the Holy Spirit can choose not to be.

Woops, I guess this belongs in the Chapel, but spirtual life shows up in all situations, not just in Church.

[mozeppa]

no good deed goes un-punished.

[wch]

I (sorrowfully) view MOST gun writers as parasites feeding on the public interest and on the industry.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

So ... you have found out that we are all desperately sinful. Some of us with the Holy Spirit can choose not to be.

Woops, I guess this belongs in the Chapel, but spirtual life shows up in all situations, not just in Church.

Possibly he found out that there is competition for media exposure, and journalists don't necessarily write about everything they investigate. Some people (e.g. diamond cutters and car companies) can reasonably expect to get the review item back. Others (authors and bulletmakers) can't.

I don't think sin, let alone the original kind, comes into this. If you gamble on getting a beneficial quid pro quo for very little, you may not get anything beneficial for very little. You could have tried for a firm agreement in advance, but I think you knew that wouldn't work, and the gamble would for some of your competitors some of the time. I

I certainly don't think that justifies naming him in public, and... well, whatever that is meant to accomplish. I have no reason to suspect the value of your products, but he could be staying out of print with opinions, certainly of interest to buyers, which are more adverse than adverse. Or maybe he has laid out a lot of money on items for potential review in the past, and has decided "No more freebies."

It is probably a good idea to assume they can see what you think of them, and work on that.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Hate to admit, this- I sent out a shot maker to have reviewed by a WELL known personality for the one and sole purpose to have them do a full write up and they'd get it back to me...

I think 3 years of waiting is enough?? and since in our last 'talk' he freely admitted he had not even RUN the machine just sitting there. So I asked for him to return it- or pay me for the item he did not review , had not used yet and bosses won't do an article on with out add space 1st- BANG LIGHT OUT AGAIN.

Spoke the Mag, they never heard of him doing this article and they admitted last week they would not do that review for that item because they wanted add space 1st then article....Comedy of errors...they are sportsman mag not reloading shooting mag....??? SO I can place add get some ink but Author can't do the full write up there any way...

Doug B is not the author just a dead beat-

I won;t name the Mag or Author - to give out the name just to give him more exposure, for free.

Just curious if this is the 'HOW it WORKS' now type thing??

Out $425 for this learning experience. Not a handful of lead bullets, stopped sending those out in 2002-03
It's less about money and more about follow through and commitment being a man of character !!

[WILCO]

Alan,

I'd go back to square one.
Review your wants and needs.
List your options.
Chart a new course.

Life is short. Even shorter in business. Fail fast and move to next venture.

Best wishes,

WILCO

[Tackleberry41]

I guess people actually read gunmag reviews? Everything I have ever read on the reviews in gunmags is their all pretty much a scam. I have never seen one in a gunmag that wasn't glowing. No matter how big a *** the product is.

As to competitors, always going to be some who will scam everybody for free stuff. Worlds just full of those kinds of people.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

I am moving on- soon-- love to clear out MY books too- have a bad taste for the Industry Establishment- it's hard for any small Co. to get ahead in these type of business and so I have now learned another lesson and paid for it too-

It's always nice when some one reaches and WANTS to help out the small guys but ...BIG BUT...not at the expense of that person / Co.

I have met SO many folks that go into making bullets because the tons of 'MONEY' they can make HA- I know guys that got auto loaders , orders, etc just to have to close door because they can not get powder or primers etc when needed...

'Selling off ALL the commercial gear we have' - trying to reduce my personal footprint and become lighter weight and more mobile , all the casters - swaggers all of that needs space I just can;t afford to heat- cool - keep roof over. Selling the Property off, buildings etc.

Trying to get down to a package that fits into motor home/ rv or truck and 5th wheel. WANT to go shoot more, load more, hunt more meet some of the great shooters face to face that I have met online - go on safari in South .Africa ?? do a run to Australia and N.Z. see the world and shoot some feral pigs , goats , etc...would love to go to Puerto Rico go shoot Iguanas all day long.. etc etc- this running a co. is for some one more cut throat than my-self. getting soft in my Middle age- want to get back to the motto - travel light freeze at night...Move up to N. Az or extreme S.E. Az up in the hills, Mt.s...take up water colors and picture taking and drop out a couple years from today.

Take care Wilco-
I like that fail fast move on- It's sorta like kill fast find the next target , stay low use cover- concealment , wait I forgot we're talking Business

[Bent Ramrod]

You may have gotten off relatively easy. Get a copy of The Last Book--Confessions of a Gun Editor by Jack O'Connor, and read the chapter "Goodies for Gun Writers."

Some of the practices he noted down were enough to destroy one's faith in humanity. One writer kept all the guns he reviewed as his "retirement fund." Another went on a freebie hunt on the understanding that he was to write something nice about the outfitter. At the end of the hunt, the writer told the outfitter that he wanted a cut of the season's hunting fees, presumably as his "end" of the enhanced business the outfitter was to get by all the good publicity the writer would garner him. If the outfitter didn't agree to this, the writer told him he would do a writeup that would ensure that no client would ever consider the outfitter again, ever.

Another writer griped to Jack that he had sent a gun to a prominent gunstocker and hadn't heard back in a couple years. Jack told him to forward the poor guy a few bucks and see what happened. The gun came back promptly. The stockmaker had had enough of freeloading writers and used the technique of tabling their requests indefinitely as a defense. The writer in question was not one of those; he was waiting on an estimate after sending in the rifle and wondering what was up.

Jack said that as a reviewer himself, he only kept consumables, like ammunition, reloading components, cleaning stuff and so forth. He paid the standard retailer's discount for any guns he reviewed and wanted to keep, and packed the rest up every few months and sent them back.

Writers, of course, have their own problems dealing with suppliers, advertisers and others, but that's another category.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

OK
I got traction, it took being a royal prick and sending emails every day for about 2-3 weeks, with some harsh - not so nice words-

NOW I do feel bad to find out the guy is NOT well. Not at all but I kept seeing the name and assumed he was up and running, not so.

I am sorry but it did not have to go so far, NOW they want to charge me for air time? never heard the peice, did not get a copy of piece etc...

SO do I feel bad - yes and no- this would just have been another in a short list of writers that got black listed for the stuff I know they pull or pulled on others.
It's like they think we don't talk to each other on some level ....
an email 1- 2 years ago would have been nice, or send me audio of said piece BUT...
I would have dropped the issue long ago and wrote if off as doing business. - "trust , but always confirm" get it writing- exactly what both parties expect from the other. So another lesson learned. If I had know it was going to cost me to get publicity I'd have just put another add into XYZZ mag and rolled the dice there.

[MaryB]

I was asked for a sample of one of my gun cleaning mats... told them NO I do not need the extra work. Have to much going on right now as it is...

[Outpost75]

Most gun writers are simply whores for the industry who cater to their advertisers. Gone are the days when American Rifleman Ken Warner bought stuff through normal commercial channels at local gunshops to test production guns, rather than specially prepped writer samples. They all lie!

[TXGunNut]

Many years ago at a bar in Des Moines, IA I was told that most gunwriters are journalistic whores (the speaker and other gun writers at the table pointed fingers elsewhere, lol) but I finally gave up on gun rags when I found myself thinking I could write better articles than most I read. Face it, most gunwriters provide great info for the low information gun consumer. A few truly gifted writers still grind out material for the experienced enthusiast.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Dr. Goebbels said that you should always aim propaganda at the stupidest people, because (I paraphrase) there are more of them, and the smart ones probably have their minds made up already. It isn't purely a gun phenomenon. How often do you see a photographic article on seeing a picture when one wanders by, or a car magazine article on enjoying the open road? They make their money on ads, not the cover price.

$425 is an amount worth establishing a clear understanding in advance. If he undertakes to return it and doesn't, you have got him for something pretty serious. If he says "Can't do it unless I get to keep it", you can make your own choice about whether to take a chance on seeing it in print.

I don't think he has a hope in a very hot place of enforcing a debt for air time, unless you have made a deal in writing for air time. I am sure he would lose a court case, and doesn't want to stand up there with a legally quotable "But everybody knows our on-air mentions are paid for."

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Thanks, I feel bad , he's sick and I was just hounding him to the point he had to have 3rd party call because he's in a bad way.
BUT you are right NO more dealings of the sort woth out line of words on paper for both parties to see and speak clearly to the point what we both want and expect the results to be- One spot mention- ONE time for what a minute or was it an hour show what?? No idea with that info I could better steel my self to what I would have said and how I would have dealt with this and the next time if ever.

[jcwit]

I see you used the word "assumed", well you see where that got you.

[waksupi]

I had a request from a knife magazine some years ago for samples. Only got a very short mention, no return of the products, and no business generated.

[farmerjim]

I put an add in a local magazine. They said they would do a feature article on my farm. It never came.

[Rick Hodges]

My understanding is the Cabela's catalog works the same way...buy add space to sell your product...while Cabela's reverse engineers it and has it made overseas...and puts your item across from a full page add of their copy selling for 20% less.

[RogerDat]

Just proves the old adage - Written agreement avoids problems, even between people of integrity or good intentions.

Not to say that some are not out to miss-represent or deceive but there are times where I really want dear wife to "put that in writing" and she probably wants the same when she asks me about when I'll get "a round tuit".

Especially useful when dealing with folks of less sterling reputation, those are often best avoided. Generally does not work out well dealing with those folks.

[StolzerandSons]

Maybe youguys that have had a bad experience with gun writers are just going about it the wrong way. I've had my Guns written about in numerous magazines in several countries and I've never given a gun to any writer or publicaion nor have I ever had to pay for advertising in any of the magazines that published articles about my firearms.

Probably the best article/free advertising I've ever gotten I didn't even know one of my rifles was being reviewed until Craig Boddington contacted me to get some background information on me and clarify a few things about the rifle for his article. My customer had contacted Craig and ask him if he would like to shoot the rifle and possibly write about it. Craig Bodddington wrote 3 pages on my rifle and it was published in Guns and Ammo May 2011 Gun Notes Section.

The point is that my customers have been the ones to promote my products to the writers and magazines, I've never had to get involved with getting my stuff reviewed. Maybe you guys should try that approach instead of being upset when you don't get the review after sending them stuff or paying for advertising.

The other thing you can do is write your own articles and submit them to magazines. I wrote a short article on one of my rifles, mostly focusing on the build aspects and it was published in Muzzleblasts(NMLRA publication) and they paid me $175.00 for writing the article. You still get the free exposure without paying for advertising and even better you get paid for the article.

If what you are doing isn't working...try doing something else.

[jcwit]

My understanding is the Cabela's catalog works the same way...buy add space to sell your product...while Cabela's reverse engineers it and has it made overseas...and puts your item across from a full page add of their copy selling for 20% less.

Never have seen that.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

My best reps are the current and former users of my gear!!! BAR NONE

I don't know how to spell ***-u-me - don;t use the word, won't use the word 4 years getting that pounded out of me I will never OUT loud or Writing USE THAT WORD- for me it worst that the word A*(*&& or ##%$@^ worse than any 4 letter word or racial slur...BUT yes never do that get it writing

ALL MY BAD. every day a new lesson right!!

Rick- I knew a guy, worked for Ca""""s and he told me before he knew what I did exactly who I was: HIS #1 job- find cool new gear , get them to sell it to them dirt cheap and then have it taken to China to copy and do just what you said- over the last 14 years doing the shot maker I Had 2-3 customer that USED to sell their stuff through them just to get ripped off or closed down from collapse of sales. Rest assured the catalog guys where right there close you out at fire sale pricing 'doing you a favor'.

I work with one Catalog Co. 1- Brownell's they are great- have supported us since 2002 and I get items from them also. funny I pay full rate retail and cut them a dealer discount but UUMMPH not a big deal in the end.

[jcwit]

Actually reverse engineering and skirting copyrights is just part of doing business.

You folks should get into the RV Industry to see just how cutthroat it really can be.

Believe me I know.

Even with it in writing, it's not hard to skirt a copyright. Really it's not hard to skirt a patent, either, just need to know how and what you can get away with.

[StolzerandSons]

I don't know about the RV industry but years ago I worked for a Stock/Horse trailer manufacturer. You might as well send the prints to your competitors because 30 days after a new design hit the first dealer, 10 other manufacturers would be making the same thing.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

yep!! had a co. IN china call me, wanting buy our gear- TOLD me over the phone they where going to copy and build them for "a customer" sure- go ahead the demand is so low for these that tooling up and cost will eat you up and you still need to sell them in mass to get a break with those guys-

Did not sell them the machine of course and the Co. that wanted to do it- never did- too expensive not enough customer base-
Not the same for the other things out the there like trailers- bike- toasters - stoves- food- tons of customers lots of competition -
Our track record and name has done much to carry that PLUS most not all most my customers still want to BUY AMERICAN

[shooter93]

A number of years ago a new magazine started up....I can't remember the name but I do have some back issues.....on the premise that they were going to be the No Bull magazine. Any review they did would be fair and honest and they were. Now they didn't call something junk but would point out any shortcomings in the product. They took reader articles if they fit in and I managed to get a couple printed by them. The end result....they died quickly. The advertisers who made good products and the writers even contributed huge dollars to keep them afloat but to no avail. Manufactures simply would not support them or send products for review or advertise with them. To bad...it was a good magazine and refreshing to see honest in print.

[jonp]

There are only a couple that I would believe when they tell me something. Col Boddington because he is a Marine, Mike Venturino and maybe Tom Gresham as I've actually heard him give a gun a bad review.

Col Boddington had a nice write up once on this subject. He said that the reason you don't see bad reviews in the magazine on stuff is that it makes for bad reading. He has had plenty of bad gear, bad trips, bad guides etc but instead of a bad review he doesn't mention them at all and moves on. He said he might have got a bad gun for some reason, a guide might have been having a bad day etc so he won't spike the whole shebang over one experience.

Want good, un-biased gun reviews? Gun Tests is one I've subscribed to for years. They rate guns and if there are malfunctions or just plain suck they tell you so and pull no punches.

[Big Boomer]

Sometime about 2000 or so I corresponded via the internet with a fella down in Texas regarding some boolits from a mould I purchased from LBT ... a 340 gr. WLN (wide long nose) gas check boolit that gave great accuracy from my custom .45 Colt 5-shooter built by Hamilton Bowen. He ran a hog-hunting outfit down there and was looking for some boolits that would get the job done. Just casually mentioned the boolits I cast and shot and the guy said he really wished he had some to try out and would give credit where credit was due. Well, I never really expected to get any contracts or anything for those boolits, just acknowledgement that he had received them and whether they shot well for him. He was gong to use them in a .454 Casull if I recall correctly. So I weighed a sizeable box of them (weighed each boolit for uniformity), put gas checks on them, sized them and sent them at my expense. No expectation except acknowledgement. Never heard from him. He sure enough got some good boolits and I lost some very good alloy. Lesson learned. Big Boomer

[LUBEDUDE]

I know a 1911 Mechanic and Pistol Maker that was contacted by a gun mag to use his 1911 as the Pistol of the Month write up.

Now I had always held this Magazine in high esteem due to it's writers and the fact that negatives are pointed out.

I lost all believability in gun magazines when I found out that this particular mag would not do the write up unless they were provided with a FREE pistol, $3500 value!

Needless to say this Maker told them what he thought about that and he was never featured.

[markshere2]

Not unique to gun industry. Lookit the magazine rack at the supermarket.
Bicycles, cars, pets, motorcycles, ....all those magazines exits to sell ads which sell products to enthusiasts.

If you read all those articles and reviews, you'll be lucky to find 1% that accurately describe the limitations of the products.

And people are not all good honest ethical folks, including writers and publishers.

Evil exists. It's all over. Assume nothing please..