44 rem mag and trail boss

[tdoyka]

i have a ruger super redhawk(7 1/2" barrel) in 44 mag. i have a can of win296 but i want to try trail boss. i have either 265gr hornady fn or 280gr ranch dogs. heres the kicker. i had a stroke a couple of years ago and the right half of my body is like around 25% good. i shot a couple of 265gr hornady fn with trail boss and i really liked it. this was one handed and no rest, i didn't expect it to hit anything. but i was wondering if i took the redhawk hunting for deer and i use it for less than 50 yards(more like 25-30 yards) will the trail boss work? or should i just use a lighter kicking load? the only thing i've used before(and now) is win296.

i've been wanting to try 2400 but i can't find it.

thanks.

[Bullwolf]

i have a ruger super redhawk(7 1/2" barrel) in 44 mag. i have a can of win296 but i want to try trail boss. i have either 265gr hornady fn or 280gr ranch dogs. heres the kicker. i had a stroke a couple of years ago and the right half of my body is like around 25% good. i shot a couple of 265gr hornady fn with trail boss and i really liked it. this was one handed and no rest, i didn't expect it to hit anything. but i was wondering if i took the redhawk hunting for deer and i use it for less than 50 yards(more like 25-30 yards) will the trail boss work? or should i just use a lighter kicking load? the only thing i've used before(and now) is win296.

i've been wanting to try 2400 but i can't find it.

thanks.

Poke a hole in the deer (in the right place) and you should be able to make venison.

Looking at IMR -Hodgdon reloading data center for some numbers with Trail Boss and the 44 Magnum.
http://www.imrpowder.com/

----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR Data Center
Bullet Weight: 240 grain LSWC Cast
Powder: IMR Trail Boss
Cartridge OAL: 1.620"
Barrel Length: 8.275"
6.0 grains of Trail Boss = 828 FPS - 19,100 PSI
7.3 grains of Trail Boss = 917 FPS - 21,600 PSI
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Or alternatively from the Lyman Cast Handbook 4th Edition...
A starting load of 2400

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lyman Cast 4th Edition
Saeco(Redding) #430
Bullet Weight: 265 grain Cast
Powder: Alliant 2400
Cartridge OAL: 1.670"
Barrel Length: 4 inch
18.0 grains of 2400 (Start) = 998 FPS - 30,800 C.U.P.
19.8 grains of 2400 (Maximum) = 1181 FPS - 39,600 C.U.P.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Sure the 44 Magnum can be loaded to higher performance levels than this, but if you can shoot these loads accurately after your stroke at 25-35 yards I don't see much of a problem with the Trail Boss or the 2400 load for penetration as long as you do your part.

I imagine that many deer have successfully been harvested through the years with milder loads than those in the recipes above.

I shoot many 44 loads in this velocity range as well.
(I'm quite fond of 9-10 grains of Unique in the 44 Magnum)
The milder loads are much more fun for long practice, or extended range sessions.

I certainly wouldn't want to stand downrange and try to catch one.

I'm old enough now to realize that not every boolit I put downrange needs to be a MAGNUM, loaded to the maximum velocity with W296 or H110. Paper targets can't tell the difference and 200-300 FPS rarely makes anything more dead.

I have more fun with the mid range loads in my revolvers, and I save the heavier W296/H110 loads for my 44 magnum rifle or carbine use.

That's my opinion anyways, for what it's worth.



- Bullwolf

[NSB]

Tdoyka, as stated above, put the bullet in the vitals and you'll have a dead deer. They aren't that hard to kill and don't require magnum loads to do it. A 900fps 240+ grain bullet will do it every time. If you like shooting the TrailBoss, go for it. Good luck.

[Shuz]

tdoyka--I recently started shooting Trail Boss in my .44 mag rifles and handguns and I like it! I shoot nothing but cast boolits and I have found Trail Boss to be very accurate in my Winnie 20" AE. I define accuracy for my lever guns as anything around 2" at 50 meters.
7g of Trail Boss and a 225g MP-432-640L gives me consistent 10 shot groups of 2"@50 meters, and this past Friday, I had one 5 shot group of 1.13" @50 meters! Velocity is around 1050 fps and Sd is 11.
Another thing I like about Trail Boss is that revolver cast boolit diameter is not as crucial as say Unique, or Green Dot to prevent minor leading. All that bulky powder acts like a buffer and perhaps those donuts act like scrapers, but anyway, my revolver bbls are never as clean after shooting as they are with Trail Boss. NO GAS CHECKS NEEDED!
I would love to trade my 8 lb jug of Green Dot for an equal amount of Trail Boss,and I've been using Green Dot for about 20 years in the .44 mag revolvers.

[tdoyka]

thanks everyone!

would a 250gr hp be alright or should i go with a 240-265gr wide flat nose?

[NSB]

tdoyka, I've shot over fifty whitetails with a .357mag and a dozen or so with other calibers including the .44mag. I can assure you that any bullet that shoots well enough out of your gun to end up in the heart/lung area will kill any whitetail you shoot with it. It's a non-issue with a well placed shot. Pick what ever shoots the best out of your gun. Good luck.

[Bullwolf]

thanks everyone!

would a 250gr hp be alright or should i go with a 240-265gr wide flat nose?

Selection of a hunting boolit is a very personal decision. Myself, I would go with the 240-260 wide flat nose boolit.

I look at things like this.

Hollow Points - While they can be extremely effective, are something of an art form. They require both the correct size and design HP cavity pin, and a well balanced malleable alloy to perform.

Balanced as in soft enough to still expand, and hard enough to still work, with just enough percentage of tin blended in to hold it all together. If the boolit massively over expands, or fragments apart you lose penetration, and can destroy a lot of meat.

Some folks have great HP results using alloys like 20-1. (Lead-Tin) Others can make a HP alloy from the correct ratio of stick on and clip on wheel weights with some added tin, that will expand reliably at the correct velocity widow, and not come apart.

Me, well I'm a big a fan of two holes, an entrance and an exit would for fast bleed outs and an easy blood trail to follow using a hard large meplat boolit with plenty of penetration.

To be fair, most of my 44 caliber Hollow Point boolits are fired at either paper targets or water jugs for fun. I have simply not put in the time to blend an accurate alloy that holds together for hunting with HP's. Just finding an accurate combonation is work enough for me.

A hard, or somewhat soft Flat Nose boolit tends to work well over a wide variety of conditions, and penetrates just fine. Heck they often over penetrate, and are much less alloy sensitive. So it's easier for me to cast a hard WFN boolit. They work well at both lower and higher velocities as long as I place my shots well.

This means I can often use the same alloy and boolit design across a wider velocity range as well. From mild subsonic loads, to full blown Magnum loads in my revolver and even my lever action rifles.

I like to keep things simple. Why fix it, if it isn't broken?



- Bullwolf

[9.3X62AL]

BruceB Soft Points.

[tdoyka]

just for kicks i found a few 200gr xtp(win296 27.5gr) and winchester 265gr factory loads. i took 2 of each and i shot them at my 50 yards target(shooting for recoil, not accuracy). i soon discovered what the right hand is forhttps://www.shootersforum.com/images/smilies/eek.gif. i shot the target with my left hand, unsupported, and felt what the recoil was like. the 200gr and the 265gr shot about roughly the same. recoil, well lets say i wouldn't shoot more than 5 or 6 with them at a target.
i think the trail boss will work for me, it may be a 44 mag but i ain't able to use it. i just say its a 44 without the maghttps://www.shootersforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif. i think i'm going to go with montana's bullet, either the 220gr wadcutter or 240gr wide flat nose.

what do you think?

[Groo]

Groo here
A full to the base of Trail boss , medium to heavy crimp and mag primers should give you a 44spec hunting level load.
Use a boolet with a fair flat nose [Keith size or bigger] of 200gr or more and you are good to go,
PS in my 41, I have found the heavy crimp and full [ or almost like 90%] loading to work the best.
Trail boss is a faster powder but is donut shaped and takes up much space, a hotter primer gets it going better.

[jonp]

Groo: by a hotter primer are you talking brands or mag? I have not noticed trailboss being that sensitive to type of primer in the 45lc which has more powder than 44Mag

[ReloaderFred]

I use standard Federal or MagTech LP primers in the .45 Colt with TrailBoss and have never had a problem igniting it. For the slow velocities you get with it, I've found the accuracy to be very good.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[9.3X62AL]

Ease of recoil in the 44 Magnum has a lot of appeal for me as I start my sixth decade. Trail Boss has worked very well as a Magnum Tamer in 357 and 44 Magnum with cast Keith SWCs loaded at 100% density. In my loads these standard weight SWCs get around 900-1000 FPS depending on barrel length. They are accurate, fairly docile, and thoroughly enjoyable. The 44 caliber variants do a fine imitation of the 44 Special "Skeeter's Load", FWIW. I think Mr. Skelton would approve of this practice in a 44 Magnum.

[Shuz]

In my not so humble opinion, Using Trail Boss in the .44 magnum case, obviates the need for using .44 Special cases to "tame the .44 magnum revolver". Yes Al, Skeeter would approve.

[Mal Paso]

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lyman Cast 4th Edition
Saeco(Redding) #430
Bullet Weight: 265 grain Cast
Powder: Alliant 2400
Cartridge OAL: 1.670"
Barrel Length: 4 inch
18.0 grains of 2400 (Start) = 998 FPS - 30,800 C.U.P.
19.8 grains of 2400 (Maximum) = 1181 FPS - 39,600 C.U.P.
------------------------------------------------------------------
- Bullwolf

Only if you size .429" and have other problems.

Both loads are supersonic out of a 4" Colt and a 4" Redhawk.

Such a disappointment after waiting 2 years for the Fourth Cast Bullet Handbook.

[Markbo]

Large lead projectiles at moderate velocities (under 1000 fps) are absolutely deadly up to and ncluding Elk.I put in the boiler room a white tail doesnt stand a chance. Dont overthink it. Just make a few up of different ones and see which one you shoot best. It will do. ;)

[9.3X62AL]

Something that gets lost in the hype and harp music of ad copy concerning the 44 Magnum is its father's recommendations for its load intensity. Mr. Keith repeatedly stated that "1200 FPS is all you need" to impart to his #429421 bullet to harvest elk and other large game. The claimed 1450 FPS of 240 grain factory loads is a bit optimistic, in real-world barrels of 4" to 6" a figure of 1275 FPS to 1350 FPS is more like it. In Mr. Keith's view these were still too much of a good thing, esp. in the S&W Model 29-series revolvers. These loads are unpleasant in a 4" M-29, to be plain. 240 grainers at 1100-1200 FPS are a good fit to the N-frame's weight and strength, and those same 240s at 900-1000 FPS are downright tractable. Just my take on the matter.

[monge]

At 50 yards 800-900fps is all you need 240gr to 280gr killed many deer at that range with a 44sp!

[Maven]

"Something that gets lost in the hype and harp music of ad copy concerning the 44 Magnum is its father's recommendations for its load intensity. Mr. Keith repeatedly stated that "1200 FPS is all you need" to impart to his #429421 bullet to harvest elk and other large game." ...9.3X62AL


1,200fps with #429421 will also get your attention, or more properly the web and knuckle of your hand if using a Ruger SBH with its square backed trigger guard. 11.9gr. of Blue Dot gives me that velocity [with that CB] from my 10.5" bbl'ed. SBH and a sore hand to boot!

[Ric-san]

Good load-out ideas here.. Thanks to all who posted

[tdoyka]

well i order up some 220gr wadcutters from montana bullets works. if i can get 3" at 50 yards with trail boss, i'll be more than happy.


https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/KJs16e3tgVvd53D-gQ-261HaUC94boo8cgm3B6MIEE6muSYpfDWd4oXXFsr0vjEumUHx7 UHVf-M7TUojBLt3PGhi-t3S-IHzSo5X2bcOcKhFPT7z4MA=s0-d-e1-ft#http://montanabulletworks.com/images/p44m_220_lbt_wc_105x105.jpg
LBT
(N/A)
220
(15)
.429 - .432
Wadcutter
(air cooled)
0.240
(0.400)

[Markbo]

I foresee venison in your near future. :D

[Groo]

jonp
Groo here
I use winchesters,
Ps you could think of Trailboss as black powder, you need more to get more and bigger the case the better.
BUT, unlike black powder you DON'T compress it.
BP lights easy ,BUT, the old corrosive primers were hotter than modern ones.[ [secret for the BP shooters , use hot mag primers , cleaner burning]
Same with Trailboss.
Full or near full case works best , same as Trailboss.
Bullet needs to stay in place to get a good fire going [ tight case and crimp] Same with trasilboss.
Bullet speeds are limited [as is pressure] same/same.....
Are you seeing a trend here???????
PS for you 41 shooters, 215gr cast swc, win primers,good tight case and crimp,6gr Trailboss...
Police load level and accurate!!!!!!!!!!!!!