A rant about gun powder

[snowwolfe]

Powder shortages must be due to the owners of the store not ordering it, or not trying hard enough. Last week I visited Outdoor Junction off I40 (exit 290) next to Cookville TN and as always they had pretty much any handgun powder you wanted. This has been the case for this store for at least the last year every time I made a visit.

Seen a sign for another store north of Cookville named Livingston Pawn so decided to drive up and check it out. Not only did they have an entire rack stuffed with powder they also had AA 5, 7, and 9 on the shelves. I wanted to try some Lil Gun in my new 480 so asked the guy working there and he said how many cans do you want? So I bought two.

If a gun store doesn't have powder they can blame themselves for not trying hard enough to get it.

[gwpercle]

Next time I'm in Tennessee , I'm going powder shopping.
Was in Memphis a few weeks ago, went to Graceland, Sun Records and Central Bar-B-Que. Need to go back now for more Que and powder. Didn't get to see much of Beal Street either, that warrants a return trip for sure.
Gary

[Tackleberry41]

I get up to Outdoor Junction every once in a while. Usually because I am already in Cookeville. I have never found their inventory to be that great. Lots of stuff on the shelf but the stuff nobody wants, and why its still on the shelf. Plus their prices are not very good on alot of things, they have a decent archery department or that occasional thing for one of my muzzle loaders.

I will generally drive the extra distance to go to the Reloaders bench in Mt Juliet. Good prices and try to keep their shelves stocked. Was just in there Sat after a trip to the gun show. The guy who is usually there with powder and such wasn't so was pretty much a wasted trip. Was looking for some H4350, told its just hard to get why there isn't any. So had to settle for an alternative for my 8mm. But had the tight group I wanted, and some 45 colt brass for a good price. Been a while since I got 100 colt cases for $25. Need some more since I bought a 45 lever gun.

[376Steyr]

There is a local store that always has powder, but they adjust their prices up to "all the market can bear" levels. Just down the road there is a bigger store, which prices their powder at their cost with a standard markup. The bigger store is almost always short of powder, as it flies off the shelves. I think there is an Economics lesson in there someplace.

[Buck Neck It]

"We could not keep it on the shelves, so we quit stocking it."

[starmac]

I do not know how the distributers come up with who they ship to. All through the shortage our lgs had a standing order ordered every week, usually got none, sometimes would get 30 or 40 pounds, but all of the same powder, I know one time they got 4 pounds in in one shipment, like that was going to do some good. lol

[oldred]

I stopped at two different gun shops while passing through Lafollette in Eastern Tn and they both had only a meager selection, none that I was looking for, then just a few miles away in Tazewell Tn the shop there had LOADED shelves with just about anything anyone could want! The prices were not cheap, a one lb container of AA4064 cost me over $35 including sales tax but then that seems to be the going price for the area so I can't complain, very nice folks running the place and a huge selection so I plan to stop again next time I am in the area.

So this just seems to be another example of just what the OP is posting, before even reading this thread I too was wondering about the exact same thing after shopping those stores a few days ago. Why did two stores have bare shelves and complained that powder was hard to get while about 20 or so miles away another shop has about any and all a person might want?

[ShooterAZ]

There is no doubt in my mind that some gun stores are much better "connected" than others. I will sometimes drive to a neighboring town to get what I need, because my LGS never has it.

[Maximumbob54]

Had one store tell me the pricing was too volatile. Same with primers. They would pay whatever to stock it and then before they sold it all the price had fallen and they couldn't sell it and make a profit. Worse, they said it was worse with primers ans they had to sell them at a loss several times they ordered them. I would think it's tough for a smaller place with lower volume to make up that difference. But a larger place can eat the loss easier.

[fryboy]

there's alot at play here , i'm sure that some places still have powder on back order ,many places no longer take back orders because of the umm past crush , do the distributors go down the line in order of how those were received ? i'm sure some may take care of there biggest base first , worse in the smaller venues many times what they get is sold before they get it ( if and when they get it that is ) i've had one small shop ask me if i had any to spare ..
there's a nameless burg ( only because i wont name it ) that had a couple three small shops and two LGS's ...one LGS closed just before the mayhem , the other during the mayhem had several powders in stock that were unobtainium for the most part , you see they were at triple prices since the other LGS closed ,i've seen much the same on the web and as noted by many the places with more realistic prices couldnt keep the stuff in stock while the bloated priced place rarely sold any
what's tragic is we havent fully recovered from the snafu and it looks like it's going to hit again [sigh]

[oldred]

we havent fully recovered from the snafu and it looks like it's going to hit again [sigh]



Unfortunately I think you may be right, I had thought that maybe there was a sense of "normal" times setting in for our sport with the (somewhat anyway) easing of powder shortages and even the better availability of RF cartridges lately, even if prices are higher on both. However I am beginning to think it's never going to return to even close to what we once knew because even if we don't see any more "events" that encourage panic the anti's are not going to stop and they have gained a lot of steam in the last couple of years. Even at the rate it's going now with the ammo producers still working three shifts making 22RF ammo it would take several more years for current demand to be satisfied to the point where supply would exceed demand and a LOT could (is) going to happen during that time. The upcoming Presidential election could easily seal our doom and start a panic that will make the last one look good times! It doesn't even have to go the wrong way, just the fact that we don't know how it will turn out is going to be reason enough for a lot of folks to "stock up" just in case and that in fact has already started! The point is that what we see right now may be as good as it's going to get unless we get some relief at the voting booth, that could very well change things a lot but that's still a really big "IF" at the moment!

[Tackleberry41]

Not sure about the idea that they will get stiffed when the value of their inventory goes down. I can't remember a time when I went to a gunshop and a lbs of powder had suddenly dropped several bucks, where they would have to sell it at a loss. I could understand if it was clothes, your summer stuff has to go to make way for winter. But gunpowder is generally always in demand and not going down in price.

What I see on the shelves is the same stuff. Stop at 3 shops they all have the same powders on the shelf, the stuff I guess nobody really uses. So then I guess some say we wont order anymore until we sell what we have. Thats great unless nobody wants it. And it seems the makers of powder don't make it according to demand. They pump out 10lbs of the unpopular stuff and 10lbs of the very popular stuff, vs making more of the stuff that flies out of shops. Like Varget its really popular, but can rarely find it, if it goes on a shelf its gone. While they add to the existing stock of stuff nobody wants.

I see alot of inventory issues with gun shops I go to. A whole hook full of sling swivels for some obscure rifle, but none for anything you actually want. I guess they might buy such things in a package, and after a while end up with a weird selection of stuff nobody wants.

[jsizemore]

A good friend has a gun shop that has reloading supplies. He buys from only 1 distributor that also supplies Bass Pro Shops and Cabelas. Both those get priority when it comes to handing out whatever supplies come in to the distributor.

[Bad Water Bill]

I visited the gun show at Pecatonica Il (pop 2750) this past weekend.

How about a FIFTY POUND keg of Red Dot?

Powder was everywhere and at reasonable (for today) prices.

Yes even the V V powders in several sizes.

One place runs a LAWN CARE business but he still had a 8' table FULL of popular powders in quantity.

From what I saw on Sunday it looks like the shortage is definitely easing up.

Then someone from another site told me that I missed out because there was XXX more powder there on Saturday.

[William Yanda]

A friend who reloads told me last night that he was informed at the lgs the powder shortage is a result of changes in the regulations covering how powder is transported by ship. He was looking for Clays-he reloads shotgun- was offered Red Dot-which he considers dirty. Asking about a substitute they steered him to Clay Dot, and he will try a couple of pounds.

[10x]

Part of the reason there was a powder shortage is the "explosion" at PB Clermont - a large Belgium gun powder manufacturer in early 2014.

[RED333]

I live in middle TN, Reloaders Bench is 5 mins from the house, prices are fair.
Teds in Columbia has some powder, priced fair.
Outdoor Junction has a reputation of high prices among the locales.
Outpost in Murfreesboro has supplies as well and fair.
I buy from a whole seller that supplies gun shows, great prices.
We did stocked up some time back on supplies I needed at the time
and have not bought much since.
As most know the supply is out there for what you need, finding what you want is something a bit different.

ETA: Midsouth in Clarksville has supplies, shipping is always a "got ya".

[myg30]

I stopped in that outdoor junction for the first time last November on my way home from S.Carolina. They must have just got in a big order as the shelves were full and excess boxes of same powders were on the top shelf and floor. The prices then were very good and I made a few calls to friends in Nashville and asked what they needed.

I figure a store like them and selling reloading products is done as a side item like auto zone selling sodas. If they don't have a dedicated employee who is "up on reloading", then you get the general once a year order of parts,Bullets,powder and loading products.
A store like reloaders bench main income is from firearms and reloading.

A pawn shop in Alabama I stopped at has everything reloading. Powders galore ! And at the prices on their bottles they can keep them, and will have them till all life ends on earth in my opinion. Kind of like the $75 box of .22 LR. Keep-um !!

Go figure, Mike

[Lance Boyle]

Not sure about the idea that they will get stiffed when the value of their inventory goes down. I can't remember a time when I went to a gunshop and a lbs of powder had suddenly dropped several bucks, where they would have to sell it at a loss. I could understand if it was clothes, your summer stuff has to go to make way for winter. But gunpowder is generally always in demand and not going down in price.

What I see on the shelves is the same stuff. Stop at 3 shops they all have the same powders on the shelf, the stuff I guess nobody really uses. So then I guess some say we wont order anymore until we sell what we have. Thats great unless nobody wants it. And it seems the makers of powder don't make it according to demand. They pump out 10lbs of the unpopular stuff and 10lbs of the very popular stuff, vs making more of the stuff that flies out of shops. Like Varget its really popular, but can rarely find it, if it goes on a shelf its gone. While they add to the existing stock of stuff nobody wants.

I see alot of inventory issues with gun shops I go to. A whole hook full of sling swivels for some obscure rifle, but none for anything you actually want. I guess they might buy such things in a package, and after a while end up with a weird selection of stuff nobody wants.


Exactly right, big stores toss that stuff in the blow out bin at 50% off.

[gpidaho]

Powder supplies here in Idaho are better than I've seen in quite awhile. I'm stocked up on my NEEDS. I haven't found Unique or Blue Dot yet but when I do I'll buy what I can afford. I suspect hard times coming as supply goes and powder I buy now will last as long as I will so best to just have it on hand. As a side here,Tackleberry41 was pleased to find some 45 Colt so I'll give our friend and fellow Booliteer Four-Sixty a plug, he keeps a lot of brass in stock at a very good price ( $21 a hundred last 45 Colt I bought from Chris) Look for his offers here at Boolits. Last shipment I ordered from him on a Thursday was to my door on Saturday (almost beat the paypal payment) which he accepts at no extra charge. Gp

[irishtoo]

i live in southwest pa. i cant say always but most times my lgs has powder and primers. i suggest a reasonable stocking of supplies to cover needs through lean times. not hoarding, but an amount that allows for range time and hunting for several years. irishtoo

[mac1911]

Powder is still spotty especially the common stuff, 4064,4895,Varget, bulls eye, RL 15?
I used to buy 6 8# jugs mail order. Now I can't find 2 out of 6 jugs of what I want from any vendor and some are still 1 8lb jug limit.

[RogerDat]

CTD with high priced ammo was always the last place to sell out. Places that only charged normal or replacement cost prices sold out first. If replacement costs rise for say primers a store can "lose" money because selling current inventory won't allow purchase of more stock and a profit. If distributor prices shoot up they can lose on the original investment. After overhead most retail is only clearing 3-5 percent profit. Replacement stock price increase of 10% wipes out the profit from the prior sales of the item just to keep it on the shelves.

There was also the ADI powder facility fire that impacted supply. They make a lot of powder sold under a couple of US company labels. Then you have the situation described in post #18 where someone finds stock available and buys more than normal to stock up and help out friends. Nothing wrong with doing that (not criticizing at all) but it reduces the available stock for that stores regular clients, so they in turn not finding something available will tend to purchase more when they find it available. Normal human and market response to difficult to obtain and desirable commodity.

I would love to be able to just stop by the chain LGS and pick up a lb. or two of powder and box of primers at a decent price when I want to load with it but clearly that "just in time" supply chain is not reliable. I fairly regularly go to Mason Fairgrounds Gun & Knife show. I have a fair idea of availability and price at that venue over time. Supply is up both in terms of amount and variety. Prices for powder are fairly stable now, it helps that there is now enough competition that as a customer can just walk away from the overpriced stuff and give my money to a different more reasonable vendor. I think brass prices may be rising, more powders encourage more brass demand.

9 months ago the guy I normally hit first for reloading supplies was having a problem with other vendors buying his stock of reasonably priced powder at the start of the show, then adding $10 to the price and selling it during the show. Now there are at least a couple of vendors with a decent supply of powder, and a few others with a little of this or that. Might not see bullseye but there is titegroup so you are not doing without. I will not buy from price gouging vendors, I'll put the dang lead bullet in a slingshot to send it down range before I'll pay $35 for a $25 pound of powder or purchase $75 box of .22 LR. Besides just as easy to light load something else for a plinking round for a reasonable price.