My new .457 mould is on it's way!

[Beaverhunter2]

My backorder from Midsouth is being packed. I have a Lee .457 405gr mould in the box and was wondering about casting for my .450 Marlin. Would WCWW be hard enough for it to avoid leading? I'm hoping to find or work up some lower velocity loads (1300-1400)fps.

I can't wait for it to get here!! I'm really getting hooked.

John

[grouch]

I get good accuracy with 20 : 1 at near 2000fps in 30 - 30 with a 12" twist and noticeably better accuracy in my 45 - 70 than with ww+2%, no leading in either case. If water dropped ww leads it's unlikely that hardness is to blame. You might have trouble trying to push a plain base bullet to max velocity, but I've had no trouble at 1300 - 1400fps.

Perhaps a more likely problem if you've ordered Lee's hollow point 405gr mold is the curved sprue plate that, if the curve extends over the cavity, leaves you with an out - of - square bullet base.

Hope yours works out for you. Grouch

[35remington]

Grouch, word is that Lee doesn't offer the mould in hollowpoint any more - that's what others here say, anyway. Likely he ordered the standard solid bullet.

Beaverhunter (what a username2!), you have a rather dicey mould choice. The .457 405 flatbase Lee does just what Lee says it does - produces .457-.458" diameter bullets. The downside is that this is verging on or is too small in diameter for nearly any 45 caliber rifle. I know it doesn't sound right that Lee would send these out like this, but that's the way it is. Some rifles may shoot these bullets; others may not.

If, after casting and shooting these bullets, you have poor accuracy or keyholing, you now know why.

To get a usable mould that throws a larger bullet, I have had Lee select one for me that cast larger bullets than their usual production run. To do this, I ordered direct and sent them 25 dollars. My 405 plain base casts a .460-.461" bullet, which is more like it.

Hopefully Lee will upgrade their moulds sometime to make a larger bullet. I'm afraid you're going to have to cast and see what you get for diameter and cross your fingers that your rifle can handle a smaller diameter bullet. After it's used, they probably won't give you a refund but they may swap it for a larger diameter custom selected mould if you mail it back to them and explain the problem.

Good luck.

[Beaverhunter2]

Thanks for the scoop, guys!

I slugged my .450 and it came out at .4575 (groove dia.). It sort of caught me off-guard based on what I'd read about 1895Ms. But that's what it is. That is why I didn't jump right to Ranchdog's .460 400gr. The mould I ordered is flat nose. I am planning to pick up one of RD's 350gr. in the near future, however. One of the things I'm hoping to develop is what I would call a "plinking load" for the 405gr- somewhere around 1300fps. I love to shoot my 450, but it can get a bit punishing with full patch loads. Definitely not something to sit and tear up a backstop with. That's one of the other blessings I see with casting, the powder will be more expensive than the bullet (for the first time in my life!).

Now regarding my username and before you get the wrong idea: It came when from when I was 16 and doing some damage control beaver trapping in the city. One of the ladies in the neighborhood kept calling me "Mr. Beaverhunter". I used "Beaverhunter" on Trapperman.com until I had to reset my username. Since "Beaverhunter" had already been "used", I added the "2". I use the same name on all forums (I get confused easily!) My first love is still trapping (I'm VP of the Michigan Trappers Association) but I have a big heart and room for many "loves". LOL

Thanks for all the help, guys! This is a great forum and everyone's very helpful to us Newbies.

John

[35remington]

Beaverhunter, the problem is in the assumption that barrels need a bullet as large as or slightly larger than the groove diameter and that's all, which is incorrect and not the way to go on leverguns. Especially with how Marlin cuts the throats on these rifles.

Ranchdog's bullet diameter of .460" is much more nearly correct for the lever action Marlin as they currently configure their chambers.

It is a cast bullet truism that the bullet must be sized to the throat and chamber dimensions, not the barrel. Usually this means a somewhat larger bullet with some chambers.

I cannot tell you if your possibly undersized bullet will work, but I can tell you a .460" bullet will definitely work.

I'm a Marlin shooter too, and the Ranchdog moulds were designed by the guys here specifically for Marlin rifles. They know what works.

Given all that, here's hoping your mould choice might work correctly. It may, or it may not.

A bullet that is even very slightly - a half thou - undersized will shoot poorly or keyhole with many loads, especially with hard cast bullets.

[Leftoverdj]

Far as I know, Lee is still making the 459-405-HB, and that one is a shooter. Using WW should not be an issue. That's plenty hard for Level I loads if the bullet is a good fit.

[Beaverhunter2]

I don't know if you saw my gas check post, but I ordered both of RanchDog's .460 moulds. Unfortunately, RD's out of .460 sizing dies so I'm not sure how I'll get my gas checks crimped in. I do have a .457 die coming with my Lee .457 405gr mold but obviously don't want to squish RD's bullets down that far. Thanks for the help!

John

[35remington]

Don't use that .457 sizer for anything - it's worthlessly small.

Either hone the sizer to .460" or have someone do it for you. Buckshot might help you out if you're hesitant about doing it yourself.

Alternatively, send Lee 25 bucks and they'll custom make one for you in .460 but it will take a few weeks. That's how I got my .460" sizer.

Also, I think Buckshot still makes sizers and does a very good job at a very competitive price. Send him a PM and ask him. He'll fix what you've got most easily if you want to go that route.

[Beaverhunter2]

The mould arrived! And of course, I lit the pot, cleaned the mould, and casted up a few boolits.

I guess I got lucky- my bullets miked .461 one way and rotated 90 degrees they miked .4615 They weigh 410gr with my WW+2%. (It's about 2%.) It took a dozen and a half tries to get good boolits but I thought the metal was likely a little cold. I'm not really patient when it comes to things like this! LOL

I also got a Lyman ladle in the shipment. That thing's going to take a little getting used to. I'm used to using a modified soup ladle that will fill a 1 lb. ingot.

BTW What does water quenching do to cast sizes? I was planning to WC my rifle boolits for sure and maybe my .476's as well.

Thanks for all the help, guys!

John

[35remington]

You'd better believe you were lucky. I would suggest trying the slugs as cast - don't use the sizer!

Check for easy chambering. You're right in the ballpark of where the bullets need to be - around .460-.461."

What does quenching do for bullet diameter? Not much. It just hardens the bullet, and how hard it gets depends upon how quickly you drop it out of the mould into the water.

Try some with and without hardening and compare.

ACWW's need 2-3 weeks to return to near the hardness they had before casting, which is around 12 BHN. Water dropped wheelweights can range from 18-25 or so, at least for me. Oven hardening does a little better due to more exact temperature control.

[Beaverhunter2]

Thanks, 35'

I will try them both ways (AC & WC). I'm looking forward to trying RD's boolits as well. I will shoot the boolits as cast to try them out. When I can get a .460 size die, can I expect accuracy to improve?

One last question (for now :oops:), do AC boolits lead to better expansion when hunting than WC or does the difference in hardness not matter that much?

Thanks! This is a lot of fun!

John

[35remington]

A wheelweight bullet will expand, but only on impact velocities greater than 1300 fps or more.

A heat treated bullet usually fractures the nose at the higher impact velocities, but that is beyond the range of velocities we're discussing.

For all practical purposes a heat treated bullet in the velocity range you desire is a non expanding bullet. The flat point is what does the killing.

[DLCTEX]

WCWW from my 45acp are hard enough to not distort in dirt, if they encounter a rock they break. ACWW will mushroom some. So if expansion is desired, air cool. For penetration, water drop. DALE

[Beaverhunter2]

Gotcha! Thanks, guys!

John

[Beaverhunter2]

I loaded a boolit into a case and tried it through 1895M. Smooth as greased goose .... I got my order in for a .460 sizer from RD. If I had waited a few days in ordering the molds, I would have saved $8.15 in shipping!.

Oh well, I already knew that impatience is expensive! :lol:

John