The powder in corrosive 7.62x54r ammunution

[bigjake]

I asked pirate69 this question; In the 7.62x54r ammo from Russia or Europe, the primers are corrosive, but is the powder corrosive?
He seems to be a knowledgeable guy and he said; no.

I want to buy one of those 440 rd. cans of 7.62x54, pull the bullet, size it down to .308 and use the powder to work up a load for the 300 blackout. I will pitch the garbage steel case and evil primer.

You can get one of those cans for around $100, used to be around $75
I figure that's a pretty good deal for 440 rounds.

What do y'all think? good idea? bad?

[Boolseye]

I will be blunt, since you ask: bad idea, in my opinion, for several reasons.
1: it's an unknown powder, so you're basically guessing for your blackout loads.
2: I don't see how you're saving any money, and you're certainly spending whatever you're saving
on the work involved.
3: It's likely a slow burning powder, anyway, and the blackout like a fast burning rifle powder.
And last, but not least: it's risky! There are several ways that you can get into trouble here, which I won't enumerate except to say: Don't do it!
-BE

[petroid]

If you were loading for a similarly sized cartridge the powder could work but way too slow for 300BLK. Now if you came across some surplus WC680...

And the bullets will be .311 and steel core. Pretty tough to size down

[Outpost75]

That seems like a really expensive way to buy powder.

440 rounds with an average charge of 45 grains is not quite 3 pounds of unknown powder for $33/pound, if you don't figure your time in pulling down the ammo.

But if you insist on this fool's errand, I agree that the usual stick powder in 7.62x54 burns in a range similar to Varget, 4064 or RL15 and is slower than optimum for your blackout...

[bigjake]

boolseye, you are right about the powder, its too slow for blackout. I don't know what I was thinking. I would be shooting it out of my bolt gun or the AR10 when I can save my pennies for one. As far as the work, I LIKE it! its a labor of love.

I would work up a load. those rounds have between 47-50 grains of powder. the powder looks and burns like powder I pulled from 30-06 rds or some 4350 I checked out. Im totally not afraid to experiment with my bullbarrel buddy.


petroid, I sized some of those down with the help of my old wrinkle painted RockChucker and some DCL lube. It was easy pushing them through the Lee .308 size die. piece of cake.

[runfiverun]

I dunno about fools errand the 400 bullets would be @ 100$ if you bought them at the store now-day's.
I do agree that the powder would be too slow for your application though.

if I wanted a slower powder or whatever I think the H-322 or AA-2230 area would be as slow as I would try in the 300.
I have had good luck with AA-2230 in some places it was never intended to be used [357 max/25-20]
i'll get around to trying AA-2230 in my 300 b.o. at some point.

[runfiverun]

oh I forgot to answer the question.
the primers are corrosive the only time a powder is 'corrosive' is if the fouling retains moisture. [think black powder]

[Wayne Smith]

And, to add insult to injury, when you swage down a condom bullet the lead compresses and does not spring back, the jacket sizes down and springs back. You no longer have reliable contact between core and jacket.

Size down (lead), swage up (making condom bullets)

[Outpost75]

I dunno about fools errand the 400 bullets would be @ 100$ if you bought them at the store now-day's.....

The Type PS Ball bullets are of poor quality and not very accurate. They are OK in a PK machinegun, which they are intended for, but do no better than 3-4 moa. They are of the wrong diameter for his Blackout, and if you try to swage them down, the cores will be loose in the steel jackets and the 3-4 moa .311 bullets will become 8-10 moa .309 bullets after springback.

Expensive way to get powder and to make bad bullets even worse.

[runfiverun]

if they are that bad I wouldn't bother.
steel jackets are not easy to size down, neither are copper wrapped.[or partially copper wrapped]
you can size down copper wrapped by running them through a .304 size die then swage/point form them back up to 308.
I would recommend an anneal before the size down.
and a strong press with good leverage.
for about 600$ [dies] you could make decent 308 bullets from decent 311 bullets.
for another 6-800$ you could just make about a life-time supply of good 308 bullets.

[Eddie2002]

Mic the bullets first, most of the 7.62x54r light ball that I have used measured out to .308. Haven't found any at .311. I was pulling down some 54r ammo and reloading it for 30-06 with a 10% reduction from the orignial load. Worked out ok but ended up with a bunch of steel cases with live primers. Found that light weight plinkers don't develope enough pressure to expand the steel cases and got some blowback. Glad I was wearing safety glasses. It was an unexpected result and a bit of a surprise. Just be careful

[hatti]

hi :) my first post..here goes..

cannot answer about 7.62x54,but powder used in military rooskie 5.45x39 cartridges definitely is corrosive and has distinctive ammonia smell when fired.

nasty stuff.

[Shiloh]

What makes the powder corrosive?? I've fired AR-15's and surplus 8mm Turk that smelled of ammonia. Must be the nitrates breaking down when fired.

Shiloh

[hatti]

it is weird because it is possible to manufacture a powder that doesn't smell and is non corrosive...

i don't know,but
maybe it is solvent incorporated in powder in order to reduce copper fouling?

sounds stupid,but i have no other ideas. :)

[Ola]

I have shot many hundreds of Russian surplus "steel core, steel jacket" bullets in .308 Win. They mic something like .310 but it is not a problem: There is a layer of soft lead between the core and the jacket so the bullet is not as hard one might think. It goes through the .308 barrel nicely.

The most important thing here is: I got the bullets for FREE. Wouldn't pay anything for them. The "steel" core is not always at the center of the bullet, so the accuracy is not very good.

(the "steel" is actually very soft. Not steel as I understand it. Iron?)

[Scharfschuetze]

Hatti,

First, welcome to the forum!

What makes much of the older surplus ammo corrosive is the priming compound. After ignition the chemical compounds left over are usually potassium chloride or sodium chloride. Sodium chloride is just common table salt and as you know, it is hygroscopic and is the agent responsible for breaking down steel into iron oxide or rust when combined with moisture or high humidity.

I have used reclaimed Warsaw Pact powders for years with non-corrosive primers without any hint of rust or without any special cleaning other than the normal solvents we all use for non-corrosive ammo. Smokeless powder often has a smell of solvent which is used in its manufacture and can often be rather strong to the nose, but is not offensive. When powder starts to decompose it has a horrible smell that is akin to ammonia. If this is what you are smelling I'd be careful of using such powder. Decomposing powder will also have a reddish tinge or powder on it. Fortunately powder is pretty stable and has a long shelf life.

[Motor]

Mic the bullets first, most of the 7.62x54r light ball that I have used measured out to .308. Haven't found any at .311. I was pulling down some 54r ammo and reloading it for 30-06 with a 10% reduction from the orignial load. Worked out ok but ended up with a bunch of steel cases with live primers. Found that light weight plinkers don't develope enough pressure to expand the steel cases and got some blowback. Glad I was wearing safety glasses. It was an unexpected result and a bit of a surprise. Just be careful

Eddie. I think you better find a more accurate measuring device. Russian steel core and most all other formerly com-bloc bullets are .310-.3105 in diameter.

They are not only steel core but most have mild steel jackets too. While I personally would not shoot them from a quality .300" bore with .308" groove diameter barrel it's very likely not a safety issue to do so.

I have directly transfered powder from surplus ammo into boxer primed brass casings basically just creating the same load in a brass case with non-corrosive primer. This creates non-corrosive ammo. I have also found it creates more consistant / more accurate ammo at least with the milsurp that I was working with which was 1965 Czech silver tip.

Motor