Carnauba Red Spots On Target...

[BCB]

Been shooting some NOE 279-124-FP, although I don't think the boolit really matters. Regardless I have been getting tiny red spots of lube on my targets at 100 yards. I don't seem to get any spots with Alox as I suppose it dries and doesn't have a chance to fly off the boolit...

My question: I wonder if the lube being thrown off in flight would affect accuracy much at all?...

Thanks...BCB

[RobS]

This was one of my issues with stiffer and sticky lubes. I had big accuracy changes and problems when lube was coming off of the boolit as you mentioned. This took me a new direction and I started to make my own boolit lube. Now I use my own home brew, a lube that is soft and one that I can use for both low pressure handgun loads and on up to high pressure rifle.

[BCB]

This was one of my issues with stiffer and sticky lubes. I had big accuracy changes and problems when lube was coming off of the boolit as you mentioned. This took me a new direction and I started to make my own boolit lube. Now I use my own home brew, a lube that is soft and one that I can use for both low pressure handgun loads and on up to high pressure rifle.

I thought there could be problems with it spinning off--Alox doesn't and I think I did get better accuracy although I didn't shoot dozens of groups to compare Carnauba to Alox...

What type of soft lube do you use and why do you think it stays on better?...

Thanks...BCB

[RobS]

Actually my lube spins off at the muzzle. I named it Red 10 and the link below has more info. for you.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?26524-Just-the-facts-Lube-recipes&p=3039487&viewfull=1#post3039487

[runfiverun]

yes it will.
think about how much is coming off between the muzzle and the target.
now think about just exactly when it is coming off. [yeah, like it's coming off a little at a time every 5 yds,,not]
now think about it throwing your stability/balance of the boolit off every time some does or does not come off.
it either has to all stay to the target or all go at the muzzle.
both ways have their advantages.
anything else is a disadvantage ,including it coming off unevenly at the muzzle.

we run some paratack tests in 'the quest', and with the tacky flingy lube I could count the lands and grooves in most of the barrels tested by the fling papers we created.
with a less tacky lube [or with control of the paratack] the fling off was a fine pretty evenly disbursed spray, these also tended to be the better groups shot in revolvers and pistols.

[Stoats]

Lube should either come off quickly and evenly after leaving the muzzle, or stay on to the target. Either way, doesn't matter which.

It's stuff that comes off wonky that causes unbalance problems.

[Stoats]

This has got me thinking... And the mould would be a bitch to make to do it, and the effect would be marginal compared to just using appropriate lube.... So not worth it except as an experiment...

What about providing lube purge channels from the lube groove to the base of the bullet such that, as the front driving band clears the muzzle, the lube is purged by propellant gas while the bullet is still supported in the bore by the rear driving band?

[BCB]

I thought the lube leaving the boolit near the target could be a problem…

As I mentioned in my original post, I thought the Alox lubed ones might have been more accurate. This is throughout my entire career, for the most part, seemed to be the case…

BUT, I always thought it was because the boolits were left “as cast” and the Alox applied. No need to run them into a sizer to apply lube with the Alox. I may have been partially wrong in my thoughts that “as cast” seemed more accurate than LAM2 sized boolits. Could have actually been no lube flying from the boolit as Alox is like painting them…

I have notice red spots on many of my targets are really never gave it a thought. As experience builds—I have only been casting for a dozen years, one begins to see a pattern. Red spots sometimes equates to 2 nice close impacts and 1 proportionally away from the other 2. Maybe the lube leaving the boolit could have been partially the cause…

Now then, I do have quite a large supply of the Carnauba for my LAM2. Is there any way this stuff could be softened and applied in an effort to see if the lube purges immediately after boolit exits, will this help accuracy…

I like Alox, but it is simply so dang messy…

Thanks…BCB

[dragon813gt]

You can mix CR w/ the softer lubes that White Label sells. Lots of people cut it w/ BAC. I cut it stick for stick w/ 2500+ but haven't gotten around to testing it yet......well honestly it's stuck in the tube and I can't get it out :laugh:

[RobS]

You can add Vaseline until you get the consistency you desire.

[Char-Gar]

In recent times, it has become popular to use a lube that requires a heater to get it soft enough to fill the grooves. It is not uncommon for these hard lubes to come off in chunks with the bullet in flight.

I have always used a soft lube (beeswax and Vaseline) for rifle loads and it requires no heat of any kind. It comes off shortly after the bullet leave the muzzle as a fine mist/spray. I have determined this by putting a piece of 8 X 10 card stock about a foot from the muzzle and every foot thereafter for two more feet. This lube always works great for handgun loads as well.

As far as accuracy goes, it gives as good as the rifle has to give. I can shoot ten shot sub-MOA with it IF the bullet and rifle can produce these kinds of groups. Oh yes, the shooter has to have had a good nights sleep and not to much hooch the night before or coffee the morning of. :-)

I started shooting cast bullets decades before anybody came up with the notion of a lube heater or a lube that needed one. I am slow to change, when something works.

[runfiverun]

Vaseline would work.
carnuba red is 7 different waxes blended together.
they are a mineral oil based wax and so is Vaseline.
some of your alox would also cut the carnuba since it's a cousin to Vaseline in base make-up.
I wouldn't add more than about 15% of the alox however and then trim the red out with some vaseline.
about a tsp to start with would soften the lube up and add some feathering to the lube, you'll probably end up in the tbs area [per stick].
this will also lower the heat needed for the lube to flow in your sizer about 10-f
simply melt the lube stick and stir in the vasoline/alox and let it cool and sit for a day or two.
lube will change over that time and your initial assessment could be wrong.
you won't need more than 150-f to melt the lube sticks. [and 105-f will melt the vasoline]

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned you want the lube to spin of immediately on exit from the muzzle or not at all. I also have always found the softer NRA 50/50 lube to provide the best accuracy from 300 - 2500+ fps. I recently ran a lube test pushing to 2600 fps and Javelina (NRA 50/50 lube) lube proved as accurate as any tested. The harder wax lubes do not spin off the bullet evenly, even at high RPM. This is proven to imbalance the bullet and decrease accuracy.

Have a look at my Oehler Sky Screens. The front screen was 15' from the muzzle. Note the red, blue and other colors of the different lubes. The hard wax lubes also left splatters and marks on the 100 yard target revealing those lubes were purging all the way to the target. A soft lube that purges instantly is all I will use on my own bullets.

Larry Gibson

150356

[kryogen]

never though about this. thanks.

[MT Chambers]

I use Carnauba red on my benchrest bullets just like it comes from the maker, and often shoot very small groups(not always), I don't see red on the target, and I get no leading. I like the lube and it would be the last thing that I would worry about when looking for an accurate load.

[Geezer in NH]

Been shooting some NOE 279-124-FP, although I don't think the boolit really matters. Regardless I have been getting tiny red spots of lube on my targets at 100 yards. I don't seem to get any spots with Alox as I suppose it dries and doesn't have a chance to fly off the boolit...

My question: I wonder if the lube being thrown off in flight would affect accuracy much at all?...

Thanks...BCB

Size of groups as none shown??

[BCB]

Size of groups as none shown??

I tried to take a pic of a couple of the groups/spots but the spots are small and didn’t really show up well. I put arrows pointing to the dots, but they didn’t show up well either!!!...

The spots are SMALL—maybe 1/16” in diameter…

The groups are from my Model 700 chamber in 270 Winchester using 20 grains of XMP-5744 at a velocity of 1714 fps (chronographed). They measure from 1.25” to a bit around 1.5” at 100 yards…

Not bad, but I am always looking to improve slightly. If the lube is causing small amount of accuracy problems, resolving it could lead to an occasional M.O.A. shooter…

Most likely, I should just accept it as one can drive himself crazy/mad being to insane over extreme accuracy…

Good-luck…BCB

[BCB]

I'll try the pics again...

BCB

[gwpercle]

While sorting some range lead I kept finding boolits with half filled hard red lube in one side the of the lube groove , they were mostly 44 and 45 cal., I only found one that had all the lube still on it. At handgun range that might not be a problem but at rifle distance that lube on one side has to have some effect. Hard lube may be better for handling lubed boolits but I've always used soft and this thread is a good example of why I should just stay with it.
Gary

[CHeatermk3]

I'm new to this game but it seems to me that lube should come off the boolit inside the barrel?

[Stoats]

I'm new to this game but it seems to me that lube should come off the boolit inside the barrel?

This can happen and causes leading towards the muzzle.