How dirty should these be?

[c1skout]

I loaded up 10 Gould express boolits in 45-70 to try. I used a load from an older Lyman manual..... 4227 with a Dacron filler. They worked well, but the 9th empty stuck in the chamber. It tapped right out when I got home. Is the Dacron making all that mess? Should I bump up the charge?

[Scharfschuetze]

Rifle model?

Powder charge?

Boolit weight and style?

Hard to answer without a bit more info.

That said or asked, I've never noticed any fouling due to Dacron as a filler although I don't bother with Dacron fillers much anymore.

[c1skout]

Sorry, should have said more.
45-70 Handi rifle, 320gn hollow point plain base boolit sized .458 lubed with "simple lube" and powered by 22.1gn of IMR 4221 with a .5gn Dacron filler.
The bore cleaned easily with a brush followed by 2 patches, no leading. The chamber was no problem to clean either. The fouling that hung the empty was near the case mouth and was a slightly tacky black substance. I've never had fouling like this before even with light loads, but this is my first venture into using a filler.
I've never had an empty hang in this rifle either and I usually shoot more than 10 rounds in a sitting.

[Scharfschuetze]

I just looked at the Lyman CBH #3 and see that you are using the minimum load for the mid strength rifles and I also see that Lyman used the filler with this load.

I think that I'd first try the same load without the filler and compare the results for not only accuracy but for that fouling also.

I'm unfamiliar with the Handi Rifle's strength so I can't comment on upping the charge, but it does sound like more pressure would solve that fouling issue with the filler. Higher pressures generally lead to cleaner burning. Of course there is a point of no return, but your load seems mild enough at 21.5 grains of 4227. Lyman lists the pressure of this load at 13,800 units, although I'm not sure if this is copper units or psi. Given the age of CBH #3 my guess is copper units of pressure.

I do think that of all the rifles out there for the 45/70, the Handi Rifle has the least extraction power for a fouled chamber. If I recall the design properly, its extractor is dependent on only a strong spring unlike the mechanical camming action of other designs.

Please keep us posted.

[popper]

Never had fouling problems using Dacron, I suspect it's powder fouling.

[olafhardt]

My handi is chambered for 500 S&W which had a SAAMI pressure rating of 60,000 lbs when I looked it up. The big Smith also has a fat head. This combination of high head area and high pressure means that rifle caliber frame Handis must really be strong so much higher pressures are OK in yours. I personally don't care to do over 50k in mine to avoid recoil. These little guns were made in some high pressure rifle rounds. I don't think I would rule out the Ruger # 1 and Mauser conversion loads in the 45-70 on the rifle receiver.

[c1skout]

I know for a fact the gun will handle heavier loads than I want to shoot in it! The load I used for years was a ruger #1 load, but I discovered the old trapdoor level loads kill deer just as well, and are much more pleasant to shoot from a 5 1/2lb gun.

I'll bump the charge up a bit on my next set of test rounds and see how that works out.

[olafhardt]

c1, I agree about the trapdoor loads being easily sufficent. Dead is dead. I bought my 500 handi to play around with and try out stuff because it is so strong I would have to really goof up to break it. It is light, cheap, strong, accurate, cute, handy and no longer made.

[c1skout]

Update:
I finally got around to trying these again. I stepped up to 23gn of powder along with the Dacron filler and that fixed the fouling at the case mouth. They made about a 3.5" group at 100yds, and that's about all the better I can hold these peep sights so I'm happy enough. I doubt I'll get time to try any other work-up with this one before rifle season begins here.

[Scharfschuetze]

Glad to hear that you've got the problem solved!

Good luck with your upcoming deer hunt. If successful, tell us all about it.

[rr2241tx]

Anneal your cases and your chamber fouling woes will go away.