Staging primer pockets

[fritoguy]

May be a dumb question but I have a bucket full of military brass that I can't prime. I have tried several ways to remove the crimp with no luck. Any suggestions on a primer pocket swagger for a Lee single stage press to make this brass work? Any advice would be helpful.

[jmort]

I use and like the CH4D swager. It uses standard dies holes like you Lee Press has. Only other options are the bench mounted tools from Dillon and RCBS, the press mounted "dies" from RCBS, or cutting the crimp.

[cainttype]

If your press uses standard 7/8x14 die threads RCBS makes a swaging set that will work.

[Ickisrulz]

I cut them out with a powered deburring tool. I find it easier if I am using mixed brass.

[Cowboy_Dan]

I use the RCBS tool on my Lee Challenger. Only problem is that the primer catch bin blocks the nock-off collar from landing flush on the press. I can live with it because it just knocks the brass off at an angle. Someday I think I will file some notches to solve it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Just use a countersink in a cordless drill. Much faster and easier than actually swaging with any tool available.

I have them all. I use the drill.

Randy

[Kilroy08]

I tried the RCBS press mounted swage tool and didn't care much for it. I felt it was too slow and tedious.

I now have the CH4D tool a bit and I'm fairly pleased with it. Just make sure to set it up properly so you don't have the swage rod travel past where a primer pocket ends. That will end up tearing the rims off of cases.

[petroid]

Just use a countersink in a cordless drill. Much faster and easier than actually swaging with any tool available.

I have them all. I use the drill.

Randy

Easy, cheap, effective. Its what I do

[Garyshome]

Dillon super swage, it may be expensive but it works really well and very fast to swage primer pockets.

[farmerjim]

I cut them out with a powered deburring tool. I find it easier if I am using mixed brass.
+1
I chuck my RCBS deburing tool in my harbor freight mini lathe. It does about 20 per minute.

[JSnover]

I bought the Lyman hand-operated tools for tight/crimped primer pockets. A little tedious but I don't process a lot of milsurp brass.

[dragon813gt]

Dillon super swage, it may be expensive but it works really well and very fast to swage primer pockets.

This, I've had all the other ones and they were just a waste of money. Ripped to many case heads off w/ the press mounted variety. Should have bought the Dillon from the start. I don't like cutting the brass.

[alamogunr]

Are you sure it is a crimp? I bought some surplus military .45ACP brass several years ago and had a terrible time seating primers. It was a wonder that some of them didn't go off. Someone informed me that some of the military brass had smaller primer pockets than normal. Not small primer size but enough undersize to make priming an iffy thing. That brass now resides in my scrap brass bucket.

NOTE: It was also brittle and many necks split on firing first time. Made the decision to scrap easy.

[jmort]

"I've had all the other ones and they were just a waste of money."

The CH4D works just fine, never "ripped the head off" a single case. I don't doubt the Dillon Super Swage works great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFD3jJ9AEXk

[jmorris]

:coffee:The fastest manual method is the 1050 it will also load your ammunition while it swages. It's only draw back is price.

It swages on station #3 as part of the load process.
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/swager.jpg

This is how fast it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

There are also swage dies (top left) that fit in a SS or turret press that do a good job or the Dillon SS (on the right) as well as manual or hex shaped (for powder tools) cutters as well. Out of them I would pick the RCBS dies for a bucket full, if I didn't already have a few 1050's.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20150120_102721_411-1_zps5ce96744.jpg

[jmort]

BTW, if you watch the video in my post #14, you can see how the CD4D die set-up blows the doors off the Dillon Super Swage speed-wise. I will never own a 1050 so that is not an option for me. Too each their own.

[williamwaco]

Just use a countersink in a cordless drill. Much faster and easier than actually swaging with any tool available.

I have them all. I use the drill.

Randy

ditto. If you dont have one a 3/8 inch drill bit works well too.

[mdi]

Put me in the "cut 'em out" group. I'm kinda a simple guy (lifelong machinist/mechanic) and on my first encounter with military brass crimps I immediately thought of a countersink. I grabbed a 60 degree high speed steel countersink and cut the crimp out of mebbe 150 cases. 13 years later and it still works great. Sometimes powered, sometimes by hand. And, never had a problem with "over chamfered" primer pockets (9mm, 45 ACP, 30-06, 7.62x51)...

K.I.S.S.

[jmort]

"K.I.S.S."

I guess we have different definitions of KISS. Cutting away material by hand or by power equipment, as opposed to using your press with a die that forms the material in less than a second. Take your pick, but using the CH4D dies is just as fast and simpler and requires little attention comparatively.

[country gent]

Have seen some that were 3 point stakes to crimp primers alog with the more standard ring crimp. The 3 point stake will want to chatter cutting it at the start. The ring crimp cuts evenly and isnt a big problem. There are reamers made to true primer pockets and a small radious, swagers for presses of various desighns and styles. Dedicated machines for swaging pockets. I watched one old timer use a center punch and hammer. He had a little stand made up and set case on it then the center punc in the pocket and a couple light taps. Crimpt was pushed back into place and a nice chamfer formed. Deburring tools chamfering or counter sinks a drill sharpened to desired angle, even dremil burrs with tapered nose work for this. I have used a 3/8" single cut 90* grinder burr and it made a very smooth nice cut and was quick. Cutting these a dull tool does better in brass cases, less chatter and or grab.

[gwpercle]

CH4D swag die, then use a primer pocket reamer and a primer pocket uniformer tool to finish the job up. The reamer and uniformer tools I happen to have are Lyman...any will work.
This method gives me the best results.
I have also just used my pen knife blade to remove a good part of the crimp, then the reamer and uniformer to finish up. This works too.
Just using a swaging tool doesn't always get the crimp totally removed, the reamer and uniformer cut excess metal away.
Gary

[bigjake]

I bought the Dillon super swage and I don't like it. I get it to swage just right so the primers go in just a little stiff, after I do a few, either the pockets are too tight or the primers practically fall in. I don't want to call it junk, but im gonna since I paid over $100.00 dollars for it and that gives me the right :twisted: no but really, it works ok in a pinch but I wished I spent the money on something else.
I'm going to go back to my old way using the Hornady primer pocket cutter and my small lathe. I chuck up the cutter in the tailstock drill chuck and leave the tail stock loose so it can slide and back and forth. Then I lightly tighten each case in the 3 jaw chuck, flip the power on and slide the tailstock cutter into the primer pocket for a second or two and pull it out. If you try and use a hand drill with this cutter you will go in cocked no matter how hard you try and gouge out way too much brass. It takes twice as long as the super swage. but the pockets are perfect. not too tight. not too loose. and it works on mixed cases without a problem.

[waltherboy4040]

I use the RCBS tool on my Lee Challenger. Only problem is that the primer catch bin blocks the nock-off collar from landing flush on the press. I can live with it because it just knocks the brass off at an angle. Someday I think I will file some notches to solve it.

A 3/4 inch copper pipe coupler over the ram will fix that problem. I tried the c4hd tool and could never get it to work right with mixed brass. Now I use the rcbs press mounted die swager and couldn't be happier.

[rbuck351]

Counter sink and a mini lathe for me although I usually set aside crimped cases until i run out of no crimped which hasn't happened yet.

[toallmy]

I went through about 1500 9mm this weak past with my case mouth chaffer. Chucked it in my drill press .my fingers are still sore. I helped a buddy sort some mixed range brass . I usually just do a 100 or so at a time .

[6bg6ga]

I purchased the Hornady case prep center ( the small one that holds 3 tools) and it does a great job. Unfortunately with a thread like this if 100 people post your going to have a variety of answers and each guys way of doing it is the "Correct Way" Tried the swager and found a lot of pockets still needing excessive force to seat the primer. I did probably 1000 of the staked primer pocket .223's and found the Hornady countersink tool removes the stakes and makes primer installation an easy process. Some would comment it takes too much time and yes it does take some effort but that effort is not needed when the cases are re-loaded time and time again. It woul be nice to have something that would trim the brass, deburr it inside and outside and ream the primer pockets all at the same time. Until then I will settle for the little Hornady Lock-N-Load Case Prep Center and my Giraud case trimmer.

[toallmy]

I have used a hornady set up before it was a pretty smooth operation. The primer pocket cleaner and case mouth cutter made prepping brass pretty quick. But around 300 bucks. I'm cheap I use my drill press but some times I go to my shooting buddy's to get some brass and will work his hornady while there. Works out well I take hem lot's of cast bullets, and he sends me home with lots of brass . I have a couple brothers with Sem auto that chew up brass that is whear the crimped 9 s go.

[mdi]

Have seen some that were 3 point stakes to crimp primers alog with the more standard ring crimp. The 3 point stake will want to chatter cutting it at the start. The ring crimp cuts evenly and isnt a big problem. There are reamers made to true primer pockets and a small radious, swagers for presses of various desighns and styles. Dedicated machines for swaging pockets. I watched one old timer use a center punch and hammer. He had a little stand made up and set case on it then the center punc in the pocket and a couple light taps. Crimpt was pushed back into place and a nice chamfer formed. Deburring tools chamfering or counter sinks a drill sharpened to desired angle, even dremil burrs with tapered nose work for this. I have used a 3/8" single cut 90* grinder burr and it made a very smooth nice cut and was quick. Cutting these a dull tool does better in brass cases, less chatter and or grab.
Oddly (?) I have de-crimped about 300 HXP 30-06 cases with my trusty 60 degree countersink tool and narry a chatter (mebbe it's because I've worked with metal since I was 12?)

OP, as you can see, the personal preferences dealing with primer pocket crimps vary with the mindset of the user. I prefer a simple inexpensive tool that removes the crimp, and others like to use an expensive tool mounted in their press. I know how to work with hand tools and metal and have no problems keeping it simple...

[Idz]

I use the RCBS swager and it works great. Only suggestion I would add is to occasionally wipe a little lube on the swaging pin. Otherwise it gets a brass coating and begins to stick.

[jmort]

"narry (sic) a chatter (mebbe (sic) it's because I've worked with metal since I was 12?)...others like to use an expensive tool mounted in their press."

The $35 CH4D Swage Kit is crazy expensive. It took me a few years to save up for it, but it was worth it. Nary a problem, probably because I have been working with my hands since I was born.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Are you sure it is a crimp? I bought some surplus military .45ACP brass several years ago and had a terrible time seating primers. It was a wonder that some of them didn't go off. Someone informed me that some of the military brass had smaller primer pockets than normal. Not small primer size but enough undersize to make priming an iffy thing. That brass now resides in my scrap brass bucket.


Now this is a place where a Dillon Swager would pay for itself. If the pockets are indeed smaller then swaging them would bring them to size. You could also ream them but that really takes too much time and especially for pistol brass you may only load once and then never see again.

I bought an RCBS tool to process some .30-06 military Brass I bought a long time ago. The tool sucked! and that is the pleasant version of my feeling towards it. It is a poor design, and is cumbersome to use.

I started using a countersink shortly there after and have been doing that ever since.

I got a Dillon Swager a few years ago in a trade and have used it a little but it is not as fast as the cordless drill with a small 6 flute countersink. I can do that as fast as I can handle the brass.

Randy

[Love Life]

I bought the Dillon super swage and I don't like it. I get it to swage just right so the primers go in just a little stiff, after I do a few, either the pockets are too tight or the primers practically fall in. I don't want to call it junk, but im gonna since I paid over $100.00 dollars for it and that gives me the right :twisted: no but really, it works ok in a pinch but I wished I spent the money on something else.
I'm going to go back to my old way using the Hornady primer pocket cutter and my small lathe. I chuck up the cutter in the tailstock drill chuck and leave the tail stock loose so it can slide and back and forth. Then I lightly tighten each case in the 3 jaw chuck, flip the power on and slide the tailstock cutter into the primer pocket for a second or two and pull it out. If you try and use a hand drill with this cutter you will go in cocked no matter how hard you try and gouge out way too much brass. It takes twice as long as the super swage. but the pockets are perfect. not too tight. not too loose. and it works on mixed cases without a problem.

Sort by headstamp.

[David2011]

The only method I haven't tried is the CH4D. I have the RCBS, Dillon, countersinks and the Hornady primer pocket chamfering tools. They all work; some better than others. IMO the Hornady chamfering tools are the best primer pocket cutting tools available. They're tool steel made to very high standards and are not capable of cutting too deeply. They bottom out in the primer pocket with a flat surface that controls the maximum depth. I mount them on a Lyman case prep station and they do their job in about 3 revolutions. The Lyman station seems to run at about 100 RPM. If you crush a lot of primers they are almost a cure to that problem.

After watching the video I don't see that the CH is faster than the Dillon Super Swage. If you're really after speed the Dillon can be rigged with springs or rubber bands to go even faster. It looks goofy but it works - ~2 seconds per case. Plenty of videos on YouTube.

Like Gwpercle said, swaging plus chamfering is the best way to go even thought it's more labor. It's also the kind of activity where you can carry on quality conversation with a child or a friend. Chamfering a swaged pocket lets the primers slide smooth as butter and removed very little metal that would contact the primer. I've had a lot of crushing of some brands of primers and this pretty well eliminates the problem.

I have also decided that 3,000 rounds of used military 5.56 even at the old price of $80 for all 3,000 wasn't that much of a bargain when the amount of labor to get it ready to load is considered. I have invested more hours than I care to count turning it into useable brass.

David

[dragon813gt]

Sort by headstamp.

Was going to say the same thing. The issues you had w/ the Dillon would lead to ripped case heads w/ one of the press mounted tools. That's why I got rid of it. The Dillon is a lot more forgiving w/ mixed brass but it still has it's limitations. As long as the tool you're using works for you that's all that matters.

[alamogunr]

I had to remove the crimp from approx. 2500 5.56mm military cases. I had a Wilson trimmer and was given a primer pocket reamer by a friend so I used it. I wouldn't recommend this method to anyone without a lot of time. I sort of enjoyed doing it when I got into the rhythm. Very accurate once set and stays that way. I happen to like using the Wilson tool for trimming but I only use it on rifle cases that benefit from the accuracy.

[6bg6ga]

Unfortunately I am unable to attach any photos. I have deleted the prior photos and I'm not anywhere close to being tapped out. What gives?

[Hueyville]

Have at least a dozen different devices have used for this issue over the years. Have the press mount RCBS primer pocket swaging set and the Dillon swager. I don't like swaging as if having to handle the case feel may as well cut to square and uniform depth along with deburring and uniforming flash hole while handling. My preferred method is to size/deprime, trim to length with power trimmer then use an RCBS power case prep center to uniform the primer pocket so all are same depth and crimp is removed by cutter while uniforming. Follow this up with a Lyman flash hole uniforming and deburring tool. Only have to do all of these operations once and if process all brass in same manner even with mixed case range ammo accuracy will improve.

The pictured PMA primer pocket squaring tool can be chucked in a hand drill or drill press. I used a 12 volt Bosh screw gun when using these but in timing, wear on body and such the case prep center is faster and less tiring after several hundred or thousand cases. You also get a nice clean primer pocket in the process. For $35 the PMA Primer Pocket Tools do a fine job of removing crimp, cleaning primer pocket and cutting it to a proper, square and uniform primer pockets which will help with consistent ignition. Follow link below to their website. Most of the big companies offer a manual version of similar tool and an attachment to uniform and square primer pockets for each of their power case prep centers but by time you buy power center and attachments it can be expensive if on a budget. Why am recommending the PSA units here due to inexpensive price if you already own a drill. If have the money, my RCBS case prep center has run a decade and likely uniformed primer pockets, champhered necks and more on over a million cases. Use it five days a week on average and sometimes on days off will run the machine for 8 to 10 hours prepping large lot of brass.

http://www.pmatool.com/primer-pocket-tools/

http://cdn6.bigcommerce.com/s-kefrxvu/products/345/images/528/DSCN1372web__31372.1420222490.500.659.jpg?c=2

[lightman]

The thing is, not all crimps are equal. What works perfect on one case may need adjusted or tuned for another. The ones that I dislike the most are the stab crimps. If I'm not hurting for cases, I won't even mess with them. And I have the Dillon tool, the RCBS tool and a few different hand tools!

[mdi]

"narry (sic) a chatter (mebbe (sic) it's because I've worked with metal since I was 12?)...others like to use an expensive tool mounted in their press."

The $35 CH4D Swage Kit is crazy expensive (sic). It took me a few years to save up for it (sic), but it was worth it. Nary (sic) a problem, probably because I have been working with my hands since I was born (sic).
I wonder what you have really been doing with your hands:wink:. I can get a very good countersink for $8.00 to $15.00 and that's about 1/3 the cost of a dedicated press mounted primer tool, so as a description it, the dedicated tool, would be "expensive". I stated I know how to use hand tools because many reloaders don't. I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and have made my living using hand tools and I know how to use tools as they are designed and have seen/heard many that don't. Just because one can pick up a tool and cobble their way through a task, doesn't mean they know how to use it (ever see a claw hammer being used on a punch? How about a screwdriver used as a pry bar, or a chisel? Or a drill used as a reamer?).

I'm not real good at snarky answers, but I'm learning from the pros...

For those that don't know what a countersink is; http://www.mcmaster.com/#countersinks/=z9jj63