Taurus Judge and S & W Governor Question

[buckwheatpaul]

I have to admit that I like these two pistols...but the large jump for the 45 Long Colt from the chamber to the forcing cone and the resulting lack of accuracy has raised a question......Is it possible to take 45 basic brass and shorten it in such a way that when the Long Colt bullet is seated that the total length would be just short of the end of the cylinder and hence increase accuracy from the erasing of the long jump of the traditional round....and secondly....not having any 45 basic brass to measure the rim thickness.....do you think that this is a viable project.....if it is ..... I wonder why Taurus and S & W havent thought of it....seems simple to me....but inquiring minds want to know....thanks in advance for your thoughts and ideas....Paul

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I always figured the only real propose for either gun was as gimmick or for snakes , it seems fair that 2 rounds of #9 shot followed by 3 of 45LC wold make the best carry loading as a snake gun that might double for social purposes

I don't think the kind of accuracy people here on the cast boolets expect from a handgun was something they were considering in the design of such a gun as the 410/45 chamber

but it would be interesting to play with some of the 410 magtec 2 1/2 inch all brass cases for what your talking about

[rking22]

I believe the 45 basic is a 4570 head size and will not fit into the chambers. I almost bought a judge several years ago. I had shot a round of skeet with one and it was more fun than a barrel of monkeys! Decided 400$ was a bit much for that and I have other guns that serve other purposes better. I too would not expect much accuracy from the 45 rounds in it, and it is just too big for me to CCW.

[lar45]

For the Judge, the chambers have a step in them that limits case length.
For a longer case, you could use 460S&W brass, or 444, but with a 45 bullet seated in them, they are just too big to go into the cylinder. You could always try a soft hollow base bullet.

I think this has been done before for the TC Contender and it was called the 45 Mongo or something??

I bought one of the BFR 45/454/410 revolvers. The throats on it are something like .464+ish(going off of memory here). I tried some 454 320s in it and actually got some pretty decent groups from it(1.5-2" @ 50 yds). That is a huge jump from the case mouth flying unsupported down the 3" long cylinder. I didn't work up any loads for it, just shot what my Raging Bull likes(320s @ 1350) and what I had on the shelf.
I called Magnum Research about the cylinder throats and they said that it was chambered to primarily fire 410 rounds and that's why the big throats.
I'm sure that I've measured the throats on the judge, but just can't remember at the moment.

[Tackleberry41]

The 410/45 chambered gun I had, the chamber was stepped, and the forward section would not take a 45 cal bullet plus the brass case. 444 was better than 45 colt, but not much better still had a huge jump. It was really only useful as a 410, 45 colt accuracy was minute of barn.

The whole thing is a gimmick, I see them in shops, they disappear so people are buying them. Taurus even came out with a long barreled version of it like it makes any difference.

[billybadmedicine]

What kind of group size are you guys wanting from these things? I love my "ultralite" Judge, and find it to be as accurate at 20 to 25 feet as my DAO SP101, throwing 250 - 300 grainers versus the 158's out of the SP-101, I think for a trail gun, especially in snake country, the 2 shot/shell 3 or 4 45 LC's is a tough combo to beat. YMMV.

[bangerjim]

My Judge works great out to ~40 feet, goo enough for what it was designed for and what I would expect from it. After all it is NOT advertised as a 100 yard accurate revolver!

Besides, who cares about accuracy with 000 buck at 20 feet! If I want to shoot 45LC's with accuracy, I will definitely use another revolver. It is fun to shoot SH ammo from a handgun!!!!!

banger

[Outpost75]

In Brazil they sell the Judge as a smoothbore, .410 shot revolver, which is an AOW weapon here and requires a tax stamp.

They only chambered in .45 Colt and rifled it to meet our import requirements. Using 5 in 1 blank cases to load shot in your .44-40 or .45 Colt revolver is effective with shot at SHORT range within 15-25 feet, and you do not give up normal accuracy with bulleted ammunition. At "snake distance" the .38 Special isn't bad either.

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[35 shooter]

I can get the 444 brass to chamber in my Bond Arms derringer, but before i started to test accuracy with that i tried a hollow base boolit in my 45 cases.
The one i'm using is the Lee .454 298 gr. hollow base minie ball. The base seems to do a good job of flaring out and sealing the 410 portion of the chamber.

My derringer is the Snake Slayer version with 3 1/2" bbls. and is holding 2 to 3" groups at 20 and 25 yds. with the rounded off fixed sights.

I made a video today shooting at a milk jug at 100 yds. from a bench rest and dug about a 10" hole in the ground just high and right of the jug. This gun has about a 10 pound trigger pull...gotta do something about that.
It's a new to me camera, so we spent some time learning to run it and didn't have a tripod, but it has a 36x zoom so you can clearly see the impacts.(Just have to learn how to download to Yahoo and back to the sight.) My son is going to try to do it tommorrow night for me.

With the right boolit the 45/410's can produce at least combat type accuracy.
Lol my brother was running the camera and was turning it on and off between shots. I wound up with about 6 different videos with one to two shots on each.
I want to make another video of it with the camera on a tripod and running for the whole sequence of shots.

Since this boolit has a very large and thin hollow base i was a bit leary of shooting it through a revolver because of shearing the hollow base in the boolit cylinder gap?
My brother has since fired some with light loads of unique through his 3" bbl. Taurus with no problems.
He was getting 4 and 5" groups from a rest at about 40 yds. on a 12" gong. Not bad for the sights that come on the Taurus and is on par with about what my derringer does at 50 yds.

Considering i only have about 1/2" of rifling in the end of my bbl. i was pleased with the results with the regular 45 colt brass!!

Btw the boolits were lubed with Ben's new BLL lube...had a very clean bbl. after swabbing out.

[victorfox]

please details on the minie loads?! how i lmissed this thread? i have a smoothore judge and dimensions are scrambled. like stepped cylnders, 460 throats and 447 bore. I,m experimenting round balls, but am thinking about some sort of 455 webley hollow base style slug or a minie ball provided it has enough weigth forward to insure stabilization. Or I can try to stick something as a tail in the cavity

[35 shooter]

please details on the minie loads?! how i lmissed this thread? i have a smoothore judge and dimensions are scrambled. like stepped cylnders, 460 throats and 447 bore. I,m experimenting round balls, but am thinking about some sort of 455 webley hollow base style slug or a minie ball provided it has enough weigth forward to insure stabilization. Or I can try to stick something as a tail in the cavity
If you were asking about the Lee minie ball boolit i was referring to...PM sent.

[victorfox]

35 yes that is it. Thank you.

[slughammer]

but it would be interesting to play with some of the 410 magtec 2 1/2 inch all brass cases for what your talking about

I have used the 2-1/2" Magtech Brass in a 45/410 contender super 14 barrel. They do work and they take regular primers. I just never got that far on the project to remember the results of the testing. (only had 230rn and 200swc around at the time).

[Walkingwolf]

Honestly I do not carry snake loads. Snakes strike fast, and if you are close they have you. I have been struck once by a copperhead on the heel of my shoe. He was gone before I could get my hand on the gun, like lightening fast. Most snakes will give a warning or avoid you, I find situational awareness much better than shot. I can easily hit a snake with a bullet at 10 feet, which puts the snake out of striking distance. IMO if you have time to draw you have time to back away.

[victorfox]

SlugHammer how is the chamber in that barrel? What were the size of your boolits? The throat in my smoothbore judge is .460 if I mic it right and bore is 447. A ball fit to to the bore won't enter the case fired in my chambers. Thanks.

[slughammer]

Victorfox, take a look at lar45's response above for some specifics on the throat in a Judge.

As far as the contender, I don't remember if I measured for max size, but I had no problems with .452 boolits chambering and releasing. (most likely I could have used even more). Some day I'll get back to the experiment...

[victorfox]

Yes, but I was thinking the chamber in the contender would be straight/tapered, not having a throat like the judge.

I mic'ed mine at .460 and .410 brass case mouth is .440 (and outer diameter too is .458-60), I was wondering how to fit a .452 ball/boolit inside such case without reaming the cylinder (which I won't do anyway).

Thanks.