.45 cowboy special

[ddixie884]

Anyone know what the deal is with this brass?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Nope, I use Schofield Starline.

[Vann]

It's just like 45 colt brass except it's o.a.l. is the same as a 45 acp. Schofield brass does just fine in pistols but can't be run in most rifles. The 45 cowboy special can be used in short stroked 73's and 66's.

[ddixie884]

I'm asking about the supply. The last I knew it was supposed to be available soon..

[Ickisrulz]

This is the company that has the "rights" presently. I sent them an e-mail asking about cases and was told right now they are only offering loaded ammo, which of course is reloadable.

http://www.acammo.com/index.php/new1

http://www.acammo.com/index.php/products

[Larry Gibson]

As mentioned it is the same OAL as 45 ACP but has a rim with the 45 Colt rim dimensions. It is designed to be used n SAAs with 45 ACP cylinders and M1873 with the 2nd and 3rd gen linkage. Benefit is smaller amount of powder needed under light weight 165 - 200 gr cast bullets in the smaller case capacity (than either the Schofield or Colt cartridges) for a more efficient burn while keeping the velocity down close to the minimum SASS allowable of 400 fps.

Larry Gibson

[Vann]

Anyone ever try 45 auto rim brass? The rim dia. Is very close to the same as 45 colt, the only major difference is the rim thickness. Just a thought, at least one person doesn't have a monopoly on it.

[Larry Gibson]

Only certain cartridges are allowed in SASS competition, the 45 AR isn't one of them. Besides the rim is indeed too thick.

Larry Gibson

[Nueces]

Auto Rim brass has a substantial chamfer on the bottom end, which would make for a thin rim if the front was trimmed to make a 45 Colt rim out of it. Double plus ungood for loading and extraction reliability, though you might get a few firings out of a rod ejector single action.

[scattershot]

I made a few from .45 Colt brass, and they worked in .45 Colt and ACP cylinders, but it still seems like a solution in search of a problem to me.

[Char-Gar]

I load the 45 Cowboy Special for 45 ACP cylinder in my U.S.Ptd. F.A. single action. It works quite well for that purpose. However, I see no purpose in using it in the longer 45 Colt cylinders.

My load is 452423 (sized .452) over 4.5/Bulleye with the case crimped in the crimp groove. It doesn't take overcrimp and cause chambering issues. I have found the Redding Profile Crimp die ideal for this use.

My pistol is one of the very early USFA single actions with parts made by Urberti and finished up here at the old Colt factory in Hartford. It is a beautiful handgun, but the cylinder throats are a generous .457 in the 45 Colt cylinder, but a much more usable .453 in the 45 ACP cylinder. Could I have done the same thing with 45 ACP brass? Well close but not quite. Using a crimp on the ACP brass would cause headspace issues. With the rimmed 45 Cowboy Special, it headspaces on the rim. I am also convinced I get a smidge better accuracy with the CS cases as opposed to the ACP cases.

[Nueces]

The case was developed for CAS shooting by those who want to burn The Holy Black, but also want light recoil for competition. So, a small case that functions with a small BP charge at 100% loading density and a light bullet.

Some of us have found that it make a useful smokeless case, as Char-Gar tells above. It remains a boutique round, though. But, what the hell, it's fun!

[bedbugbilly]

Nueces . . not questioning what you say or the advantages of the 45 Cowboy Special brass. I ask because I'm new to the 45 Colt and so far have only loaded smokeless with Ideal 545-190. I have both 45 Colt and Schofield brass and am looking at getting a mold for a lighter weight boolit - possibly the RCBS 230 gr. "cowboy" RNFP.

In regards to loading the Cowboy Special with BP for lighter recoil, etc. . . could you not just load a Schofield case with less and seat the boolit deeper in the casings (to compress) and achieve the same thing? I've only been neck sizing the cases of my 45 Colt brass because the chambers on my Uberti Cattleman 7 1/2" are so generous in size. If a Schofield casing were FL sized and a expander plug used that wouldn't flare the mouth . . would the case tension hold the boolit in place without any "jump" . . . even if seated with the nose of the boolit flush with the case mouth and no crimp?

[Nueces]

In regards to loading the Cowboy Special with BP for lighter recoil, etc. . . . would the case tension hold the boolit in place without any "jump" . . . even if seated with the nose of the boolit flush with the case mouth and no crimp?

bbb, it would work for one round anyway, but I would not trust it to work with all 5 in a cylinder. And it would make the occasional reload a bit of a fumble. I've heard of CAS competitors charging 45 Colt or Schofield cases with the desired reduced BP amount, then using a filler such as cream of wheat. I haven't tried this, but it bears looking into.

[Larry Gibson]

With light loads and lighter weight bullets a crimp isn't needed at all, actually it's not even needed with top end +P 45 ACP loads used in revolvers. I've shot thousands of my practice load of 5 gr BE under a 195 - 205 gr cast bullet in M1917s and in SAAs with 45 ACP cylinders. I've also shot a lot of top end loads with the H&Gs #68 under 7.5 gr Unique. Never had any bullet move out of the case in the cylinder from recoil. I use a Taper crimp die to just remove the case mouth bell and straighten it out.

Given SASS loads in the 45 Cowboy Special keeping 165 - 185 gr cast bullets in the 400 - 500 fps range there is even less of a need for any crimp.

Larry Gibson

[bedbugbilly]

Nueces - I've heard some who use filler/wads to take up space as well. I have shot BP C & B for many, many years but have never used a filler in that circumstance as my loads have always been consistent with chamber volume and maximum ball seating depth to get compressed load.

Right now, the only molds I have ae the 454-190 and the 452-460 which is a 200 gr.. I may order a lighter weight in a Lee mold to play with (for $20 for the mold, an inexpensive way to try a different boolit). I could use Schofield brass, get my powder volume (BP) figured out for a compressed load and seat the 200 grain so the nose is flush with the mouth of the casing (like in a WC load) and give it a try. Load 5 - fire one and inspect unfired cartridges for "jump" - if none - continue to the next - re-check, etc. I'd FL size the brass first to keep everything consistent and just see what the results would be. Might be an interesting little experiment. I'm guessing that the case tension on the boolit seated that deep might react as Larry states and there not be a problem? Only one way to find out!

Larry - My fist batch of loads out of my 7 1/2" Cattleman were the 454-190 over 8.0 grains of Unique. I'm loading with a "hodge podge" of dies - Lyman carbide FL, Lyman expanding die, RCBS seating die and a CH (I believe) 45 ACP taper crimp die. I was doing just as you stated - using the taper crimp to remove the very slight "bell". I was using Starline 45 Colt - new - and I only neck sized it the length of the boolit seating depth as my chambers are pretty generous as far as ID. My mold is dropping them at .453 - 454 so I loaded them as dropped. My throats are .4525. I loaded 40 and had one "boolit jump" - not much but enough to lock up the cylinder. I was able to push the boolit back in. I think what happened is that I may have missed neck sizing a casing. (I'm loading them on a single stage). My taper crimp was not much more than ironing out the bell. At least that's what I'm attributing it to as I had no problems with the other cartridges. I located a used Lee seating die which should give me the option of either a taper or rolled crimp. And, I seat and crimp in two different operations.

For a lighter boolit - I'm looking at the RCBS 454 RNFP "cowboy" mold that I believe is a 230 gr. mold. Anybody have any other suggestions for a mold? Or, a different weight that would work equally well out of a 45 Colt and 45 Schofield casing? I'm not shooting competition or CAS - just plinking. I'd like to stick to the "traditional" RNFP boolit if I could but am unsure as to just how low of a bullet weight to go to before shooting at 25 yards or so (either smokeless or BP) that a person would start to have real problems with hitting cans, paper, etc.?

Interesting thread - at some point I hope the special casings become available as they would be nice to try. Sort of like what I do with my 38s - I like the 38 spl. but I still play a lot with 38 Colt Short & Long just for fun.

Thanks for the experience you are all willing to share.

[Larry Gibson]

The 454190 at 250 gr has a lot more inertia than a 200 - 230 gr bullet in the 45 ACP. Using that bullet poses the potential of bullet jump if a crimp isn't used, especially with heavier loads.

If I was going to shoot much SASS CBA competition I would use a 165 - 185 gr cast bullet in the 45 Cowboy Special at about 425 fps out of my Evil Roy SAA. If those did not feed in my M1873 Carbine I'd switch to the Lee 452-200-RF which does feed. I'd also load that bullet at 425 fps out of the ER SAA and at SASS shooting distances with the rifle (usually not more than 25 yards) accuracy will be quite sufficient for the steel targets used. Recoil will then be as low as possible with a 45 caliber and I should still be pretty fast in my age category.

However, I also don't compete much anymore either. Thus I use the Lee 454-200-RF over 7.2 gr Bullseye in 45 Colt cases. That runs 950 fps in my revolvers and 1200 fps in the M1873 Carbine. Accuracy is excellent. I also shoot a lot of my standard Practice 45 ACP rounds in the ER SAA with the 45 ACP cylinder. That load is 5 gr Bullseye under 195 - 205 gr SWCs. That runs about 875 fps out of the ER. I have the sights regulated on the ER so the 45 ACP load is dead on at 25 yards and the 45 Colt load is dead on at 50 yards (about 1 1/2 - 2" high at 25 yds> With the 200 gr .45 Colt load in the M1873 Carbine I have it zeroed at 50 yards with the elevation slide all the way down. With the elevation slide at different steps I am zeroed from 50 to 200 yards. Very deadly on all the "hostile" rocks we have in these parts..........

Larry Gibson

150229

[HABCAN]

bbb, by all means go for the LEE 200 gr. RF......it is very popular here with the CASS shooters.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks fellas - greatly appreciate the information. I have to get an order around for Titan for a few things and will add one of the 200 gr. FN to the order.