30-30 to 375 Win - 1.8" case - Quickload info needed

[garandsrus]

Hi,

i am blowing out 30-30 brass to 38-55 or 375 Win cases. Yes, they are a little short. I am shortening them even more. Michigan requires a case length max of 1.80" in a straight wall case for deer hunting in Southern Mi so I am trimming them to 1.795.

i would like to get someone with Quickload to run a check to see what the expected pressure and velocity is for a couple powders. I am thinking 2400 and IMR-4227. Both ar listed for the .375 Win and 38-55. Without the Quickload data, I will start several grains below min and work up. I am using the Lyman 375449 boolit, seated to the crimp groove.

i have a Stevens 30-30 bolt action with a bulged barrel at JES reboring. He is going to chamber it for the shorter case.

Thank you!

[rking22]

Sounds interesting. I am working with a full length 375 Win BB94 recently. there are some threads here on using slow powders with cast and I have been doing just that. A good friend has had very good results in a 3030 with 4831 so I am experimenting. I am using a 100% load of AA4064 with the Lee375255 and seeing 1475fps. Thats all I am looking for with the PB boolit. Next will be 100% density with 4895 or 3031(asuming it is within listed max) and the NOE copy of 375449. Obviously workup is needed, but it is reasuring to know you can't get enough powder in there to cause problems! If you work with traditional rifle powders (4895 ,3031, maybe 4198) you may find happiness with low pressure. Start on the slow end and work toward faster powders till you get what you want, or pressure signs. Not knowing your velocity goal this may not work out for you. Watcing this thread with interest !

[Skipper]

Take a look at the published data for the .375 Super Mag

[Artful]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-12941.html

[petroid]

give me your bullet weight, barrel length, and OAL and I'll try and run it for you

[garandsrus]

Thank you!

Case length:1.795
boolet length: 1.039
lenght of boolet in case: .600
weight: 275gr
barrel length: 20"

[OnHoPr]

Just a reminder, if case length 1.795 before firing and you have a heavy crimp with a heavy load it might stretch pass that 1.800 requirement. So, depending on the CO, there are some Officer Reeds out there, they might construe that as being over regardless of before of after the shot.

[petroid]

Hope this helps. Have fun, be safe!

38-55

Cartridge : .38-55 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : Alliant 2400

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 47 14.40 1315 1056 16803 2202 98.2 1.995
-18.0 48 14.76 1340 1097 17693 2252 98.6 1.948
-16.0 50 15.12 1365 1138 18613 2300 99.0 1.903
-14.0 51 15.48 1390 1179 19565 2346 99.3 1.860
-12.0 52 15.84 1414 1221 20548 2390 99.6 1.819
-10.0 53 16.20 1438 1262 21563 2432 99.8 1.780
-08.0 54 16.56 1461 1304 22612 2472 99.9 1.743
-06.0 55 16.92 1484 1345 23694 2509 100.0 1.707
-04.0 57 17.28 1507 1387 24811 2544 100.0 1.673
-02.0 58 17.64 1529 1428 25963 2578 100.0 1.640
+00.0 59 18.00 1551 1470 27151 2611 100.0 1.609
+02.0 60 18.36 1573 1511 28376 2645 100.0 1.578
+04.0 61 18.72 1595 1553 29639 2678 100.0 1.549 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 63 19.08 1616 1594 30940 2711 100.0 1.521 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 64 19.44 1637 1636 32281 2744 100.0 1.494 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 65 19.80 1657 1677 33662 2777 100.0 1.468 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 59 18.00 1591 1546 31515 2512 100.0 1.522 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 59 18.00 1490 1356 22796 2703 98.8 1.726

Cartridge : .38-55 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4198

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 69 20.00 1307 1043 15035 2498 83.0 2.035
-18.0 71 20.50 1337 1092 15917 2587 84.3 1.981
-16.0 73 21.00 1368 1142 16843 2676 85.5 1.929
-14.0 75 21.50 1398 1193 17812 2763 86.7 1.880
-12.0 76 22.00 1428 1246 18827 2849 87.8 1.832
-10.0 78 22.50 1459 1299 19886 2933 88.9 1.787
-08.0 80 23.00 1489 1353 21003 3016 89.9 1.743
-06.0 82 23.50 1519 1409 22169 3097 90.9 1.701
-04.0 83 24.00 1549 1465 23391 3175 91.8 1.660
-02.0 85 24.50 1579 1522 24669 3252 92.7 1.621
+00.0 87 25.00 1608 1580 26010 3326 93.5 1.584
+02.0 88 25.50 1638 1638 27414 3398 94.3 1.547
+04.0 90 26.00 1667 1698 28884 3468 95.0 1.513
+06.0 92 26.50 1697 1758 30426 3534 95.7 1.479 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 94 27.00 1726 1818 32035 3598 96.3 1.446 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 95 27.50 1755 1880 33736 3659 96.9 1.415 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 87 25.00 1695 1754 30806 3379 98.4 1.473 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 87 25.00 1500 1374 21581 3117 85.2 1.725


375 Win

Cartridge : .375 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : Alliant 2400

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 59 16.00 1473 1324 25076 2430 100.0 1.686
-18.0 60 16.40 1499 1372 26492 2469 100.0 1.646
-16.0 61 16.80 1525 1421 27963 2507 100.0 1.608
-14.0 63 17.20 1551 1469 29489 2545 100.0 1.572
-12.0 64 17.60 1577 1518 31074 2583 100.0 1.538
-10.0 66 18.00 1601 1566 32718 2621 100.0 1.505
-08.0 67 18.40 1626 1615 34424 2659 100.0 1.473
-06.0 69 18.80 1650 1663 36193 2696 100.0 1.443
-04.0 70 19.20 1674 1712 38029 2733 100.0 1.414
-02.0 72 19.60 1698 1761 39932 2770 100.0 1.387
+00.0 73 20.00 1722 1810 41905 2807 100.0 1.360
+02.0 75 20.40 1745 1859 43951 2843 100.0 1.335
+04.0 76 20.80 1768 1908 46072 2879 100.0 1.310
+06.0 78 21.20 1791 1958 48271 2915 100.0 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 79 21.60 1813 2007 50551 2950 100.0 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 81 22.00 1835 2057 52915 2985 100.0 1.242 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 73 20.00 1753 1877 48422 2716 100.0 1.299 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 73 20.00 1673 1710 35313 2941 100.0 1.445

Cartridge : .375 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 8208 XBR

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 25.20 1384 1169 18508 2818 72.4 1.870
-18.0 90 25.83 1421 1233 19843 2931 73.9 1.811
-16.0 92 26.46 1459 1300 21271 3044 75.4 1.754
-14.0 94 27.09 1497 1368 22798 3157 76.8 1.700
-12.0 96 27.72 1535 1439 24444 3268 78.2 1.648
-10.0 98 28.35 1574 1512 26203 3379 79.6 1.598
-08.0 101 28.98 1612 1587 28096 3487 81.0 1.550
-06.0 103 29.61 1651 1665 30130 3594 82.3 1.504
-04.0 105 30.24 1690 1744 32318 3699 83.5 1.459
-02.0 107 30.87 1729 1826 34680 3801 84.8 1.416
+00.0 109 31.50 1769 1911 37228 3901 85.9 1.375
+02.0 112 32.13 1809 1997 39984 3998 87.1 1.335
+04.0 114 32.76 1848 2086 42970 4091 88.2 1.296
+06.0 116 33.39 1888 2178 46211 4181 89.3 1.259
+08.0 118 34.02 1929 2272 49735 4267 90.3 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 120 34.65 1969 2368 53576 4349 91.3 1.187 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 31.50 1886 2172 45216 4103 93.3 1.267
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 31.50 1629 1621 30164 3544 76.0 1.513

[OnHoPr]

Petroid, That looks like an interesting program. Does that program have an intuitive calculation process for lets say Hard Cast or Soft Cast? Another point, issue, question is given some of these rifle types. For instance the 94 winny is not as strong as the Marlin 336, so rebores to the 94 in lets say 375 win would have to be kept in the 94 cup pressure range to where as the 336 might be able to handle a little more pressure. Same as the rifle mentioned in this thread. Is the stevens 30-30 capable of handling more pressure than the 30-30 like in the 308 win range for said 375 win pressures. I know it will handle more pressure than what loads are designated for the 38-55. Said that barring premature case rupture the 38-55 rounds could handle pressures up to the actual rating of the action its self, correct.

[garandsrus]

Petrie,

Thank you! It is amazing how fast the pressure goes up with a small powder charge difference at the top end of the spectrum. Needless to say, I don't want to go there!

It looks like 1600 fps is about the top of what I will be able to achieve.

Is IMR 8208 XBR the same as IMR-4227, or did Quickload not have that powder? Did Quickload recommend a powder for maximum velocity for a given pressure?

OnHoPr, I don't think the Stevens will handle the .375 Win pressure. At least I am not going to try it! I plan to keep the top end loads near 30-30 pressure since that's what the rifle started as, which is why I was hoping to get Quickload data. I would think that the guy doing the reboring (JES Reboring) wouldn't chamber a rifle in an unsafe caliber for that make of rifle. I don't know how much pressure testing he has done.

John

[petroid]

I didn't look for 8208xbr. didn't know you were considering it. Will try later.

Quickload hhas preloaded bullet profiles both jacketed and lead and seems to know the difference. If it doesn't have your particular bullet you can try and match it up as best you can with something close and adjust length, weight, seating depth accordingly

[petroid]

I see my error. I accidentally put IMR 8208xbr instead of IMR 4198

Here is the 4198 data for 375 Win

Cartridge : .375 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4198

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 84 21.60 1472 1324 22027 2916 89.7 1.726
-18.0 86 22.14 1507 1387 23468 3007 90.8 1.677
-16.0 88 22.68 1542 1451 24991 3094 91.9 1.631
-14.0 90 23.22 1576 1517 26602 3179 92.8 1.586
-12.0 92 23.76 1610 1583 28306 3261 93.8 1.544
-10.0 94 24.30 1644 1651 30108 3340 94.6 1.503
-08.0 96 24.84 1678 1720 32015 3415 95.4 1.464
-06.0 98 25.38 1712 1790 34035 3487 96.2 1.426
-04.0 100 25.92 1746 1861 36174 3555 96.8 1.390
-02.0 102 26.46 1779 1932 38442 3619 97.4 1.355
+00.0 105 27.00 1812 2005 40846 3678 98.0 1.322
+02.0 107 27.54 1845 2079 43397 3734 98.4 1.290
+04.0 109 28.08 1878 2153 46108 3785 98.8 1.259
+06.0 111 28.62 1910 2229 48988 3832 99.2 1.229 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 113 29.16 1943 2305 52052 3874 99.5 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 115 29.70 1975 2382 55302 3911 99.7 1.172 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 105 27.00 1890 2181 48509 3574 100.0 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 105 27.00 1706 1777 33760 3595 91.9 1.433

[petroid]

Geez, I'm such a dufus. You wanted IMR 4227 and I ran everything but that. Here is the 4227 data for 38-55 and 375Win

38-55 with IMR 4227

Cartridge : .38-55 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 63 18.40 1322 1068 16070 2433 88.3 1.988
-18.0 64 18.86 1351 1115 17008 2510 89.3 1.936
-16.0 66 19.32 1381 1164 17989 2586 90.3 1.888
-14.0 67 19.78 1410 1213 19015 2661 91.3 1.841
-12.0 69 20.24 1438 1263 20090 2734 92.2 1.795
-10.0 70 20.70 1467 1314 21210 2806 93.0 1.752
-08.0 72 21.16 1495 1365 22386 2875 93.8 1.711
-06.0 73 21.62 1524 1418 23616 2943 94.5 1.671
-04.0 75 22.08 1552 1470 24885 3009 95.2 1.633
-02.0 77 22.54 1580 1524 26243 3073 95.9 1.596
+00.0 78 23.00 1607 1577 27648 3134 96.5 1.561
+02.0 80 23.46 1635 1632 29117 3193 97.0 1.526
+04.0 81 23.92 1662 1687 30653 3250 97.5 1.494 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 83 24.38 1689 1742 32260 3305 98.0 1.462 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 84 24.84 1716 1798 33933 3357 98.4 1.431 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 86 25.30 1743 1855 35678 3406 98.7 1.402 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 78 23.00 1679 1720 32693 3119 99.6 1.461 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 78 23.00 1514 1401 22891 3016 90.0 1.690


And for 375 Win

Cartridge : .375 Win.
Bullet : .375, 264, LYM LFN GC 375449
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.235 inch or 56.77 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch or 508.0 mm
Powder : IMR 4227

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 74 19.60 1469 1282 22132 2719 92.3 1.716
-18.0 76 20.09 1502 1340 23546 2796 93.2 1.669
-16.0 78 20.58 1534 1398 25037 2871 94.1 1.625
-14.0 80 21.07 1567 1458 26608 2944 94.9 1.583
-12.0 82 21.56 1599 1518 28265 3014 95.6 1.542
-10.0 84 22.05 1631 1579 30013 3082 96.3 1.503
-08.0 86 22.54 1662 1641 31856 3146 96.9 1.466
-06.0 87 23.03 1694 1704 33800 3208 97.5 1.430
-04.0 89 23.52 1725 1767 35853 3266 98.0 1.396
-02.0 91 24.01 1756 1831 38018 3322 98.4 1.363
+00.0 93 24.50 1786 1896 40305 3373 98.8 1.331
+02.0 95 24.99 1817 1961 42710 3422 99.1 1.301
+04.0 97 25.48 1847 2027 45248 3467 99.4 1.271
+06.0 99 25.97 1877 2093 47929 3508 99.6 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 100 26.46 1907 2160 50763 3546 99.8 1.216 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 102 26.95 1936 2227 53759 3579 99.9 1.189 ! Near Maximum !

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 93 24.50 1852 2037 47650 3258 100.0 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 93 24.50 1695 1706 33259 3340 94.1 1.435

[garandsrus]

Thanks! It looks like I might be able to get an extra 150fps with IMR-4198 over the other powders I was looking at. Hopefully 100% load density doesn't mean that the case is full of powder, without the boolit seated. I would guess it's with the boolit seated. I will know soon enough when I fill up some cases with powder.

Thanks again!

John

[git_dr1]

A good friend contacted me 2 weeks ago as he was having trouble finding ammo for the 375 Winchester.
His father had stopped by and gave his son (@ 12 yrs of age) a Marlin 375 Winchester.

Of course, having received his first rifle, he had his heart set on carrying it for the first day of buck season which starts tomorrow.

This was a cartridge I wasn't familiar with so I told him to let me see what I could find out. I had no idea what I was in for.

Thanks to you guys and your willingness to share your knowledge on this site I was able to work up a load that performed quite nicely.

I obtained a set of pacific reloading dies and the lee .379 250gr mold of ebay and began the journey.

First, I annealed and formed some cases from 30-30 brass.

Second, I cast and powder coated the bullets. The alloy was 50/50 wheel weights and soft lead.

Third, I installed some pb gas checks. Seeing as I didn't have any to this caliber and was limited on time, I tried something that worked out quite well. I used a .5" (harbor freight) hole punch and cut discs out. I then super glued the pc'd bullet to it and ran it through a (homemade) push through sizing die. I was impressed with the results.
154443154444

After reviewing the quickload information provided previously in this post, I stuffed the bullets into a charge of H-4227 and found I had quite an acceptable load.
154445

I didn't think to snap a picture of the target but the boy was able to hold a 1" group at 70 yards.

Just a note, I did try the same load without gas checks and the performance was acceptable but adding the gas checks really tightened them up.

So, on behalf of the boy (and me) I want to express my gratitude to all of you, and this site, for your willingness to share your knowledge.

I told him this was the best I could do and the rest was up to him. He was on cloud nine when he left here with the gun and ammo.

If he has a successful hunt I'll post a picture.

Sincerely,

git

[EDG]

The .375 Super Magnum is a 1.6 long version of the .375 Win
there is loading data in the 4th Edition Hornady Manual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_magnum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_magnum)

[BAGTIC]

Load density is the percentage of the case that is filled by powder when the bullet is seated. Higher LD usually results in more uniform velocities. When the shortened case is used how does one adjust bullet crimp as the case length is too short for standard dies?