Revolver that fits child's hand?

[1989toddm]

I'm thinking of trying to find a revolver that would fit a 4-5 year olds hand to use for safety training and as a cap gun using primers only. Is there such a gun for a decent price that would also be a good starter gun to learn to shoot with later on? My daughter is 2 so I have a while but thought I'd get an idea if possible.

[M-Tecs]

Cases need flash hole drilled out or the primers will back out. Primers are still dangerous. Airsoft would be a much better choice.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

why not just get a cap-gun http://www.capgunstore.com/ or in sp101 in http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/models.html

[blademasterii]

Ruger bearcat in 32mag should fit the bill for a number of years. Was eyeballing one the other day, just dont have a need for it to spend 600 bucks on a new one. After a bit of research it seems the .32 bearcats might have been customs. I guess that leaves nail driver blanks in the standard bearcat. :D

[Artful]

I would suggest getting a regular cap gun - now with the new and improved hi-viz front cap - to avoid any problems with police being called when an adult sees a kid paying with a real gun.

[bedbugbilly]

I'm sorry . . . I'm "old" but still i have a hard time understanding a parent wanting a "real" gun - pistol or rifle . . for a 4 or 5 year old child. This is not to be construed that I am picking on the OP . . . it's just that I see posts on various forms once in a while in regards to this . . . .

In the times we live in now . . . and mind you . . . I'm not a "tree hugging liberal turn the other cheek I'm sorry I offend you" type of guy . . . but in the news far too often are stories about over reaction to actual "play" guns and many times, the fiasco that results. Several years ago, in my area, kids were out playing "war" just like we all did. Someone drove by, saw it, called it in as "kids with guns" and not one, but three police agencies responded - lights and sirens. One ended up flipping his car to avoid another vehicle and went to the hospital. Anyway . . .

A real revolver . . . using it to teach a child gun safety . . . and then empty casings with primers to use as a "cap gun"? Sorry . .. . somethings wrong with all of that. Why are young parents wanting to teach their kids to shoot at the age of 4 or 5? What child that age has the reasoning ability to know the difference between "real" and "play" . . . . we have far too many teenagers and young adults that can't even tell the difference.

If a parent wants to teach their child "gun safety" . . . then start early by conversations with them. If a 4 or 5 year old wants to go with Dad and Mom when the shoot to watch . . fine . . . but what's next? Letting them give the 45/70 a try?

Most states have youth gun safety programs of some sort . . . which have minimum ages for participants . . . for a reason. It's called maturity and ability to reason and have common sense. A 4 or 5 year old doesn't have those abilities when it comes to firearms. What is going to happen when a child is allowed to "play" with "real primed casings" . . . and then they find some "real loaded ammo"? You say you keep that locked up? Good luck with that . . . kids are shot with guns very often which are "locked up". If a parent is going to allow a 4 or 5 year old to "play" with real guns . . . are you going to let the drive your car as well?

I'm sorry . . . . but there is a real lack of "common sense" on the part of some people. A child is a child . . . and guns are not "play things". One of the first rules of gun safety is to treat a weapon with respect, be knowledgeable and to ALWAYS treat it as if it was loaded. Or have they changed gun safety as well to fit what's politically correct?

I have been a shooter, hunter and firearms enthusiast for over 50 years. It's a great hobby. If this post "ruffles a few feathers" . . . then so be it. I worked ambulance, fire and fire rescue for many years. I saw and experienced things that give me nightmares to this day. As a part of those duties, I responded to more than my share of shootings, homicides, suicides and accidents. And yes . . . a number of "accidental shootings" involving children . . . most of which were due to situations which could have been prevented had parents used "common sense". It's a heart wrenching situation to see a child die . . . or to have them pass in your arms . . . due to situations which could have been prevented but their parents were idiots. And trust me . . . you NEVER forget those things and they haunt you.

Let a child be a child. There is plenty of time when they reach 11 or 12 to accompany Dad hunting or shooting so they can begin to learn gun safety and then shoot with their parent's supervision. A properly run gun safety class should be a must as should be a hunter safety class . . . and even after all of that . . . accidents can still happen. But for heaven's sake . . . a you child should NEVER be handed a real handgun and then given the impression that it is also a TOY! Not only is it ridiculous, but if a by-stander were to see such a thing . . . I can't think of a better way for a parent to be charged . . . and convicted of "child endangerment". And justly so . . .

[Uncle Jimbo]

I have to agree with you one this one bedbug billy.

[historicfirearms]

I gave each of my kids a 22 rifle when they were four years old. They do not get to use it alone, and I keep them locked up when we are not shooting together. There is nothing wrong with supervised use when they are that young. My kids have been taught the safety rules from day one, but there is no way I would let them shoot unsupervised until they were older. Giving the kids ownership of their own gun let's them build confidence and satisfies their natural curiosity in a safe manner since they have been taught to respect firearms. Kids that have been raised to avoid guns do not know what to do when they are around a real gun.

[calico]

You said it in the original post. A starter gun, specifically a starter pistol, if you want more of a real gun feel.

[dilly]

A child can learn to shoot firearms at ages that young, but it can be done in a way in which the adult has complete control over everything but the trigger. A child can "have their own gun," but it stays locked up with the parents' other guns only to be used under direct supervision.

Maybe I misunderstood, but when you say "and as a cap gun" I cannot recommend any real firearm for that. That, to me, implies running around unsupervised, pointing it at people, and not wearing hearing protection. That's how I utilized a cap gun, and that's everything you are training a child NOT to do with a real firearm.

Any 22 revolver should accept the blanks that are used for nail guns in the hardware store, I believe. These are of course not hearing safe, and might be quite dangerous at point blank ranges, but they are cheap and available. They would be useful for carefully supervised instruction purposes and noise acclimation.

[GhostHawk]

Firearms safety courses are all aimed at young people in the 11-14 yr old age group. Young enough to be influenced, mature enough to take it seriously.

There are toys, and toys should never be able to cause harm. Then there are guns, and you have to assume that they will always cause harm. Truly I believe you do not want to blur those lines.

Airsoft is a fine training tool, but I suspect they are a bit young to take even that seriously.

A long gun under adult supervision and ONLY under supervision is one thing. A potentially lethal gun in the hands of a child without that supervision is truly a scary thing.

How long before they put a marble down the barrel and watch it fly?

[montana_charlie]

I'm sorry . . . I'm "old" but still i have a hard time understanding a parent wanting a "real" gun - pistol or rifle . . for a 4 or 5 year old child.
I'm with you on this ...

[mozeppa]

i shot my first 12 gage at age six....and i knew enough even then to grasp safety issues.

and yes ...it knocked me on my ****...but i never dropped the gun!

[imashooter2]

In 1960 I was 3 years old. Any time I touched a real gun was under close supervision. Gun was an H&R 199. I would suspect that a S&W J frame .22 would fit your child. I would not recommend using it as a cap gun. Real guns need to be carefully segregated and differentiated from toys.

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/Grampa_Paul_Dale_22_1960.jpg

[9.3X62AL]

Real guns need to be carefully segregated and differentiated from toys.

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/pictures/Grampa_Paul_Dale_22_1960.jpg

This is my view also. I began shooting at age 7, under close supervision......which was how I shot ANY firearm until age 16. Driver's license issuance in my Dad's eyes was the litmus test for solo use of firearms--if you can be turned loose with a vehicle, then you should be sensible enough to manage a firearm afield.

[rking22]

I'm with the above posters , that said. I let both my son and daughter shoot my target air pistol at about 5, but I was in control of it and it was a teaching time as well as fun time. I then bought a Cricket for them to shoot (supervised ) about age 6. At 12 they got spring piston air rifles and I bought a Bearcat to heach them to shoot a pistol (SUPERVISED). My son was shooting SCTP trap by age 9 and competing nationally in international skeet by age 13. Daughter also shot SCTP at age 13. They both grew up with guns around the house and learned VERY early , that if they wanted to look at a gun all they had to do was ask. Daught carries a J frame now and my son is a NRA shotgun coach, they are 21 and 22 years old. Get them started right and all will go well, most important they will be safe! Simple answer Ruger Bearcat, but teach them it is a very serious undertaking to pull that trigger with real consequences. Mine had rubberband guns to chase each other arround the house with and drive my wife and cats crazy !

I suspect we missinterpreted your question about cap gun use, but remember many other people will read this thread over the years , and we want no chance of them missinterpreting the situation.

[1989toddm]

Thank you, all for the input. I hesitated to post, and now I'm very glad I did post. I do appreciate the caution, thank you bedbugilly for taking the time to type that[emoji4] While I did not point my cap guns at people; (that was strictly forbidden!), I do see the relation between fake and real. Not to mention the chance of police being called on my child by a passerby who doesn't know what's going on. I did learn to shoot at an early age..and from watching my daughter grow thus far, I have felt that anything I want her to really "get" needs to be started young.
Thanks to the input and valid reasons stated for said input, I do not plan to use real guns as "cap guns". I do think cap guns are a good training aid..don't really like airsoft since you shoot people with them, but I did it too.
Good food for thought. [emoji4]
God Bless!

[1989toddm]

Also, I think different children are able to grasp things at different ages and different parents teach them differently, or not at all!

[TXGunNut]

I have a problem with toy guns, as much as I love guns I would never give a toy gun to a kid as a gift. I feel playing with toy guns may cause a child to lose respect for guns and the damage they can cause. Bedbugbilly pretty much nailed it in his post IMHO. I'm all for teaching a kid to shoot as soon as he shows an interest and will follow instructions and safety rules. Come to think of it, an amazing number of adults would fail that test.

[rking22]

Teaching , in all it's aspects, is one of our most important pleasures as parents (and grandparents), so much neglected nowdays.

[rking22]

My Son worked a sporting clays shoot his weekend. He told me he has never had as many guns pointed at his face in his life, ALL by adults!!! He told me he wished he had been pulling for the kids in the afternoon ! He explained the proper procedure for loading and that all actions had to be open except IN the shooting position, and they just kept doing it and appoligizing ,, Good Grief !!!!

[10sandxs]

I've taught a junior air pistol class at a local indoor range for the past 5 years or so. As background I have a usa shooting coaching certification, nra range safety officer cert, and am a hunters ed instructor.

The kids in the airgun program are as young as 6 years old, but this is a very controlled environment with several other instructors present. Parents are a critical component on class and often learn a few things as well.

One of the questions I ask is who's shot a gun? One or two raise thier hand. Who's shot an air soft gun? One or two more. Who's shot a nerd gun? All the hands shot up. At that point I say, you've all pressed a trigger trying to hit a target, so you've all fired a gun. Perhaps a bit more strict interpretation than most, but it really gets kids in a different mindset. It eases apprehension about shooting a "real"gun, but also helps make the connection that even toy guns can injure when used in appropriately. (That's why many nerf guns come with "cool glasses" the kids want to wear).

A few things I've learned over this time

1) girls are almost always better at handeling guns and hitting thier targets than boys of the same age.

2) every child is different. I've had 6 year old kids do excellent and asked 10 year old kids to sit at the vack of the room for unsafe handeling. You Need to be aware of your child's limitation.

For my own kids, I introduce shooting with. A red Ryder bb gun and move up from there. They were 4 or 5 and I saw how it went and we go from there. My oldest is very comfortable with guns but likes air pistol. My middle h

[10sandxs]

Sorry, hit send accidentally.

My middle one took to it immediatly. She hates air pistol but wants to master the biggest guns I allow her to shoot (full power 44 mag)

My youngest is still on the fence about the whole shooting thing so I take it slow.

My kids are 15, 12, 9. Listen to what they are telling you and go from there. I wouldn't worry about finding a gun to fit small hands. A ruger single six or heritage revolver in 22 lr will work just fine for the introduction. Thier hands will figure it out just fine, and they won't stay small for very long at all.

[Texantothecore]

I'm sorry . . . I'm "old" but still i have a hard time understanding a parent wanting a "real" gun - pistol or rifle . . for a 4 or 5 year old child. This is not to be construed that I am picking on the OP . . . it's just that I see posts on various forms once in a while in regards to this . . . .

In the times we live in now . . . and mind you . . . I'm not a "tree hugging liberal turn the other cheek I'm sorry I offend you" type of guy . . . but in the news far too often are stories about over reaction to actual "play" guns and many times, the fiasco that results. Several years ago, in my area, kids were out playing "war" just like we all did. Someone drove by, saw it, called it in as "kids with guns" and not one, but three police agencies responded - lights and sirens. One ended up flipping his car to avoid another vehicle and went to the hospital. Anyway . . .

A real revolver . . . using it to teach a child gun safety . . . and then empty casings with primers to use as a "cap gun"? Sorry . .. . somethings wrong with all of that. Why are young parents wanting to teach their kids to shoot at the age of 4 or 5? What child that age has the reasoning ability to know the difference between "real" and "play" . . . . we have far too many teenagers and young adults that can't even tell the difference.

If a parent wants to teach their child "gun safety" . . . then start early by conversations with them. If a 4 or 5 year old wants to go with Dad and Mom when the shoot to watch . . fine . . . but what's next? Letting them give the 45/70 a try?

Most states have youth gun safety programs of some sort . . . which have minimum ages for participants . . . for a reason. It's called maturity and ability to reason and have common sense. A 4 or 5 year old doesn't have those abilities when it comes to firearms. What is going to happen when a child is allowed to "play" with "real primed casings" . . . and then they find some "real loaded ammo"? You say you keep that locked up? Good luck with that . . . kids are shot with guns very often which are "locked up". If a parent is going to allow a 4 or 5 year old to "play" with real guns . . . are you going to let the drive your car as well?

I'm sorry . . . . but there is a real lack of "common sense" on the part of some people. A child is a child . . . and guns are not "play things". One of the first rules of gun safety is to treat a weapon with respect, be knowledgeable and to ALWAYS treat it as if it was loaded. Or have they changed gun safety as well to fit what's politically correct?

I have been a shooter, hunter and firearms enthusiast for over 50 years. It's a great hobby. If this post "ruffles a few feathers" . . . then so be it. I worked ambulance, fire and fire rescue for many years. I saw and experienced things that give me nightmares to this day. As a part of those duties, I responded to more than my share of shootings, homicides, suicides and accidents. And yes . . . a number of "accidental shootings" involving children . . . most of which were due to situations which could have been prevented had parents used "common sense". It's a heart wrenching situation to see a child die . . . or to have them pass in your arms . . . due to situations which could have been prevented but their parents were idiots. And trust me . . . you NEVER forget those things and they haunt you.

Let a child be a child. There is plenty of time when they reach 11 or 12 to accompany Dad hunting or shooting so they can begin to learn gun safety and then shoot with their parent's supervision. A properly run gun safety class should be a must as should be a hunter safety class . . . and even after all of that . . . accidents can still happen. But for heaven's sake . . . a you child should NEVER be handed a real handgun and then given the impression that it is also a TOY! Not only is it ridiculous, but if a by-stander were to see such a thing . . . I can't think of a better way for a parent to be charged . . . and convicted of "child endangerment". And justly so . . .

4 or 5 years old in Texas is not unusual. Three years old is also common. Difference in culture I guess.

[Scharfschuetze]

Having taught marksmanship and gun safety to cub scouts, boy scouts and hunter safety students for more years than I care to remember, I can only say that every child matures differently. Good parenting is often the key here, but I do think that an early exposure (under supervision) is good for a growing child's concept of responsibility. I have often failed hunter safety students due to their lack of readiness to carry a firearm in the field. You ought to see egotistical dad's come unglued when that happens!

Having used wax bullets in police training I resorted to those when starting my kid's shooting programs. They were just fine in the back yard, forest behind the house or in the garage in the winter.

My son is now often deployed as an Army Ranger and is usually top gun in his company with both the M4A1 carbine and the M9 pistol due to his early training. That's about as good a life insurance policy that you can ever give your children.

Now to answer the original question. Here is the J frame 32 S&W Model 32 that my kids learned to shoot a hand gun with. It was just perfect for them.

[ddixie884]

Bearcat....................

[Blackwater]

When you say "child," I'm assuming they're under 12? If so, there's one answer that stands out IMO, and that's the Ruger Bearcat or Super Bearcat. The SA grip is tapered for a reason. Sam Colt originally knew that his guns would inevitably used by folks with dainty little hands, like my DIL's, and huge mitts, like a friend of mine, who curls his little finger under the grip because he's run out of room with his other three on the grip. It was therefore tapered so that everybody could get at least a half decent purchase on the grip.

If the children are small, the grip will be small enough at the top for them to hold it at least relatively solidly, and the trigger, being a SA, should be reachable to good effect. The SA is a significant safety factory for the young. They weren't called "horse pistols" for no reason! They were MUCH safer and less liable to go off "accidentally" while on horse back because they had to be manually cocked before being fired - good for young ones as well!

One of my life long best friends' Dad joined the cavalry back when they were still trained on horseback. One of the guys in his boot camp was being taught to shoot the .45 auto from horseback, and was instructed to fire to one side while galloping along, then raise the gun high in the air and over to the other side for the following shot. He didn't follow instrustions and instead of raising the gun up and over the horse's head, he simply brought it straight across, and the horse apparently hit something, jarring the rider, and just at the moment he'd gotten the gun half way around, and he inadvertently pulled the trigger, shooting his own mount right in the back of the head!!! Mr. Poss said that man was STILL having deductions taken out of his check to pay for that horse when he was mustered out!

Single actions don't have that problem. No amount of trigger pulling can fire them UNLESS they're cocked, and it's assumed they'll at least be smart enough not to do that unless and until they're about to fire. Even that sometimes proves a bit too much of an assumption, though, but SA's will always be the very best tools with which to teach the very young, AFTER of course, some good, very firm instruction, a smile, and significant dry firing to practice and get it right when you load the pistol.

That's my take on it, anyway. FWIW?

[justashooter]

into the 1930's S&W made revolvers on the I frame that are even smaller than J frame detective specials. the most commonly found examples are hand ejector 1903 in 32 S&W long, which can shoot 32 S&W, also, and do well with mild handloads. they tend to run 3-400 for a nice example, but can be as cheap as $200.

[1989toddm]

I'm really enjoying everyone's input, and experience. Good stuff.

[snglstack]

When my youngest son (26 now) was three he had one of those toy tool belts with a toy cordless drill. He always carried it drill bit down with his finger off the trigger, just like his big brothers do. I bought pistols for my sons the day they were born. A Bearcat, a Browning Hi-power, and a Colt New Frontier .45. And they've done the same with their sons, leaning more toward Rugers. And now, finally, after fifty years or more, the Bearcat has adjustable sights if desired, thanks to Lipsy's. I got one in stainless and it is a literal jewel. Looks like a mini Super Blackhawk.

[Geezer in NH]

I have to agree with you one this one bedbug billy.Yep until at least the age of reason.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I like to start them on rifles , as much as I like pistols , with youth instruction the rifle just gives so much more to grab if they do have a muzzle control issue

the program I teach for starts at age 8 , while some of the kids have already been shooting for a few years it is about the age I can reasonably find equipment for.

we start air rifle , teach prone , sitting , kneeling , and standing once they have that and are showing responsible handling with air rifles they may participate in air pistol , and I know they understand muzzle control a pump air gun is a fair amount of weight for them so it is mainly from the bench till they get stronger.

my youngest was shooting 22 rifle about 4 the older kids were about 5-6 , at that time I didn't have any air rifle so it was a 22 rifle by the time my son was about 8 he was shooting 22 pistol , at 9-10 he was doing quite well with 9mm

MY WORD OF CAUTION - NEVER EVER LOAD UP ANY FIRST TIME PISTOL SHOOTER WITH A FULL MAGAZINE - load one round then even if they give the gun a toss that round has already left the barrel down range and you can safely catch the gun or let it hit the dirt with no fear of the second round this is mostly for center fire handguns but not a bad idea for 22 also when they have it all well controlled and demonstrated they are hitting the target , load 2 when my son was 11 he had a 9mm that he had a fair number of rounds through that he was getting towards the end of a 3 stage match and he was getting weak it was late in the day and he was tired from other activities besides just shooting and started to squeeze his hole hand to keep the gun under control from the recoil , it started causing the gun to fire every time the slide dropped and started coming back down his finger would squeeze he had been around pistols long enough and shot in a few matches already that he had the good sense to keep the gun pointed at the backstop and ride through it he got his control back that took 4 rounds and he finished the match after getting his grip back. he was almost 12 when this happened and had about 3 to 3 1/2 years behind a pistol about 2 behind a 9mm you never want to put a brand new shooter in that position he handled it very well some of those 4 rounds that were fired very rapidly even hit the target


daisy 853 are a great tool to teach marksmanship youth groups can get them from the CMP for about a hundrd dollars used an rebuilt , they will shoot one ragged hole
the stocks are wood and come with spacers so I have a few program guns we took a saw to and put the but plate back on to get them the right length for smaller 8 year olds

air guns and not spring guns allow you to form a good basis of stance and grip that carries over to 22 and then center-fire without the goofy bi directional recoil of a spring gun

for air pistols the 717 or 747 Daisy pistols are a great value and easily rebuilt for about 7-8 dollars

[Half Dog]

I am so glad to hear of your time investment. Spending time with the kids and giving them fundamentals is very respectable.

I did the same with my kiddos but used snap caps, BB guns, .22's, and then 38's. I was there and we had fun.

[Blackwater]

As to how old kids need to be before they get instruction, here's a little story that pretty well illustrates a point I never hear mentioned about this subject.

When my son was 3 yrs. old, I was out shooting a Ruger Blackhawk .357. He wanted to watch, so I let him. I fired several cylinders full, and he just watched silently. When I was through, he asked, "Can I shoot it, Daddy?" Of course I started to tell him he was to young, but then I thought. He'd been watching me so intently, I wondered what he'd learned from what he saw. So .... I very cautiously started to question him. "Are you SURE you want to shoot this? It's loud, you know." "Yes, Daddy, I do." "It's heavy, do you think you can hold it up?" "I think I can, Daddy." "What about the kick. You don't think that scares you?" "No, Daddy, it just jumps when you shoot it." (I was shooting +P .38's). So I sat there a moment thinking, and couldn't help but wonder what he knew. I needed to know. Didn't want him finding it some time and making a mistake with it, and if he could load and fire it by himself, without any instruction, then I needed to know he had that ability FAR more than I needed to think myself into a corner and possibly let him get hurt. So, I sat down on the porch steps, put him in my lap, and handed him the empty gun and 6 ctgs. It was a New Model, so there wasn't much way he could have fired it without my hands, which were very near on either side, from preventing that.

I then told him, "Let's see if you can load it." He beamed at me like a noon day sun, and dutifully and methodically opened the loading gate, and turned one empty cylinder in line, stuck a ctg. in, turned the cylinder to align the next empty hole, filled it, and went all the way around until the gun was fully loaded with 6 ctgs. Then he looked up at me, beaming again, and asked, "Did I do good, Daddy?" All I could do was raise my eyebrows to my hair line, and affirm that he had indeed done very well. Then I unloaded the gun, and with an empty cylinder, just asked him, "OK, show me you you'll shoot it if I let you." He knew it wasn't loaded, and just beamed again, picked it up with both hands, somewhat like he'd seen me doing, and held it out in front of him with bent elbows, as I always shoot with, and pointed it at the can I'd been shooting at. The barrel wavered a bit, but never too badly, and with great deliberation, he pulled the trigger. The hammer fell, and when the trigger released, he let the muzzle drop a bit. At 3, he did extremely well to have done what he did!

I'd told him that if he showed me he could do it carefully and well, I'd let him shoot it, so .... it was time to hold to my word, now. I took him out in the yard, set him about 25 ft. from an old coffee can I'd been plinking at, and loaded the cylinder with a single round, and aligned it so it'd come up under the hammer when cocked again. Then I squatted down, with him between my outstretched arms, my hands about 4" from his as he held the gun out at near full length for his shorter arms, and he aimed, wavered a bit as would have been expected, and pulled the trigger. The gun fired, and he missed the can by only about 1"!

This was a VERY humbling experience for me. I knew he was always smart, and observant, and too much like his old man in that he was curious about everything, and wanted to "play with" everything he saw. This told me that it was time for me to get a different gun, and very shortly thereafter, I got a .45 ACP 1911. Kept a loaded magazine and empty chamber in my dresser drawer. Tried him on that unloaded gun to see if he could load one in the chamber (dummy round I'd made up just for the occasion), and he couldn't, no matter how hard he tried or what I offered as motivation to ensure if he could, I'd know it.

I loved that old Bhk, and it was a good shooter, but I just didn't want him having access to a gun he could operate at that age, so I sold it off. As a vet in college on the GI bill with a wife and kid, that money really helped us for a while, plus helped pay for the .45 too.

Kids tend to usually know a lot more than we "moderns" give them credit for, and THIS can lead us to assume MUCH bad info, and that can lead to tragic accidents. We have to KNOW what our kids can and can't do, not just assume or guess. A single action Ruger is a great gun to check out your young kids with, and see what they know. It's also, if you play your cards right, the safest choice for this. As someone above stated, don't ever load an auto with more than one, or at the utmost, two rounds. DA revolvers should be shot SA mode because of the trigger reach and their short fingers. But we MUST know and not ASSUME what they do or don't know. This is just how I found that out, and quite by accident, at that. Once I knew, though, what he could do, I could THEN deal with the issues it presented, which is why I got the .45.

I have nothing against teaching SOME kids very young. It all really depends on the kid, and not on some magic age they may reach. Some NEVER mature enough to warrant using a pistol well! Some are good to go at age 6, or even 5. These are simply the decisions we have to make on a very individual basis. And idiot laws mandating specific ages are dunderheaded attempts to classify people as all being alike, which is obviously false on the face of it. But that's politics, and we don't need to get into that here.

FWIW, I think the more they know, at the point where they can be trusted, tends to make them more responsible when they're older. This goes against the grain of what we're taught by all the egg headed psycho-somethings today, but it works, and not much that the psycho-somethings propose seems to work very well at all. As always, good judgment is required, and that requires real, serious knowledge of yourself, your kid, and what most likely lies ahead for the two of you. It requires care and much caution, but if those are applied, along with good judgment and knowledge, I see no reason why young kids couldn't or shouldn't be taught to shoot at very tender edges. For best effect, you need to set it up right, as I tried to do. I was just wining through this, step by incremental step, and just made it up as I went. it worked. He became about as fine a shot as I've ever seen, and becoming a very responsible and respected member of the community. If it gets any better than that, I don't know how it could be done.

Entrust kids with responsibility when they're young, and they'll likely take responsibility seriously during their critical teen years. That ain't no small thing. It takes some good talk before trusting them with such power and responsibility, but if they show an ability and willingness to measure up, and grow, why NOT let them? Treating them like little children until they're 25 doesnt' seem to work very well. Treating them with, and teaching them responsibility, does. It's really just that simple. The only real variable, as I said to begin with, is the child his or her own self. Knowing when they're ready is up to you and your own good judgment. Never say, "No," though. Always say, "Pretty soon, when I think you're ready." That makes the try to measure up, which is a powerful motivator.

FWIW?

[FergusonTO35]

My dad started me shooting when I was 5 with his .22 rifle, and moved me into shotguns and centerfires as I got big enough to do so. I never even touched a handgun of any sort until I was 12 or 13 when his wife at the time let me try her ancient S&W hand ejector .32. I think this was the right way to do it. The smaller a gun is, the easier it is to absent-mindedly point it at yourself or place a body part in front of the muzzle. Moreover, a person under 18 cannot legally own or possess a handgun anywhere in the USA except under limited circumstances. If you want to get your high school age kid started on handgun marksmanship in preparation for them having one of their own in a few years that's fine but I don't really see a need or purpose in teaching a kindergartener how to shoot one.

As an aside, my dad was pretty much against people owning handguns back then. He has since softened up and now owns a Ruger Blackhawk and Browning Buckmark. He even espoused his belief in the reason for Second Amendment to me the other day.

[gray wolf]

that would fit a 4-5 year olds hand to use for safety training and as a cap gun using primers only. Is there such a gun for a decent price that would also be a good starter gun to learn to shoot with later on? My daughter is 2 so I have a while but thought I'd get an idea if possible.


Some good in this--some not so good.
As I see it you have a 2 or 3 years to figure it out.
By that time you should have a handle on your own mind set
and a good perspective about your child.

Keep in mind kids today are not your dads kids or yesterday.

[bangerjim]

I would NEVER give a child that young a real gun! Even with just primers! Way too dangerous.

I grew up with my western six shooter cap guns and that was fine, Later a Red Rider BB gun, you know the one with the compass and this thing that tells time in the stock.

Plenty good enough for young folks. Even in Texas!

Airsoft stuff is still too dangerous for someone that young. I have a lot of them and several are at 500+ FPS!

Do what you want, but my kids sure would never have REAL guns at that young age!!!!

banger

[1989toddm]

Some good in this--some not so good.
As I see it you have a 2 or 3 years to figure it out.
By that time you should have a handle on your own mind set
and a good perspective about your child.

Keep in mind kids today are not your dads kids or yesterday.

Thank you Gray Wolf, for good solid encouraging advice. I appreciate you noticing that I'm NOT giving my child a gun at 2 years old and that every child is different.
Some seem to throw all kids in the same box which is not what I want to do.
God Bless.

[Texantothecore]

Look at the full line of Bond firearms. North American Firearms also some very small but personable pistols.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have a problem with toy guns, as much as I love guns I would never give a toy gun to a kid as a gift. I feel playing with toy guns may cause a child to lose respect for guns and the damage they can cause. Bedbugbilly pretty much nailed it in his post IMHO. I'm all for teaching a kid to shoot as soon as he shows an interest and will follow instructions and safety rules. Come to think of it, an amazing number of adults would fail that test.

I agreed with this, and with Bedbugbilly. I wouldn't even give a cap gun as a cap gun, to a child I intended to use real firearms later. A, child has to know that firearms are different, and must be treated differently, from anything else he will ever handle. Even teaching him never to point a cap gun at anyone isn't good enough. He needs to know - really know - from the time he first handles a gun-shaped object, that not pointing it at someone, even accidentally, is far more imperative than not being seen at it by a parent.

There is also the possibility that your child will become disturbed. It happens occasionally in the best of families. For this reason I wouldn't give a child round the clock control of his own firearm, even though it would be an extremely healthy responsibility for the great majority of fourteen-year-olds. If a time came when you had to take his gun away from him, it would be "You're not normal" time, and thinking about things sometimes makes them happen.

As to primed cases and nail-gun blanks they can seem real to passers-by who wouldn't have looked twice at an ordinary cap-gun, and they are both potentially dangerous. Remember the rule of thumb with all those bits of other technologies which we adapt to shooting and reloading: things bear a guarantee or product liability for the use which can reasonably be imputed to them. Primer debris usually follows an even more destructive bullet, and nail-gun cartridges are meant to be fired fully enclosed, and pointing at a wall.

Col. La Garde, of the Chicago stockyard and cadaver tests which led to the adoption of the .45 ACP, wrote of his experiments with bullets infected with anthrax, although there appears to be no suggestion that anything more sinister than improved therapy was envisaged. He found that the disease was fatally communicated to test animals in the majority of cases, with a variety of hand weapons at ranges up to 500 yards. There was an understandable lack of human test subjects, but there seemed to be some doubt as to whether humans would be as readily infected. No such uncertainty seems to apply with tetanus, since around 35% of the U.S. total of up to 400 deaths per annum used to result from injuries inflicted by black powder blank-firing pistols, mostly around the fourth of July. This seems consistent with the 65.5% fatalities La Garde produced in animals by infecting the powder, wads, barrel, "garments" or skin. Tests showed, however, that no such contamination of the cartridges existed, suggesting that the contamination was on the victims' clothing or body, and was therefore very slight. Of course a lot of the dust even in cities, in those days, was contributed by animal manure, which is a major vector of the disease. But you do not want anybody firing blank cartridges from close range at you.

[Texantothecore]

I have a one year old grand daughter and I am going to start her shooting with a Savage Rascal. Her subsequent guns will move to centerfire and she will be taught to reload. Any pistol she operates until the age of 10 or eleven will be air pistols of various types.
One of the reasons for the restriction to rifles is that accidents with rifles happen much more slowly than with pistols. Can you be sure that she will always point the pistol down range if someone engages her in conversation from behind or from the side? Most likely the answer is no.

She will have an airsoft pistol useful for plinking crackers in the backyard and we will move on after I determine that all of her safety techniques are good and consistent.
She will also spend a lot of time with black powder. Hopefully she will be attracted to the smoke and muzzle blast of the old rifles.

[Texantothecore]

The air soft pisto will be treated like anu other firearm: locked in a case with the instruction that the only time she handle it is when an adult hands it to her.

A good method of teaching responsibility.

[jmorris]

4 or 5 years old in Texas is not unusual. Three years old is also common. Difference in culture I guess.

Mine started at two and a half but had/has no realistic looking toy guns. She has a rubber band gun somewhere but other than that has to be with an adult with all the proper safety equipment even if she just wants to watch.

When she started that would last about 5 shots before she was ready to go back to playing in the sand, she will be 4 soon and you might get 30 min out of her now.

Also only do rifles, she will have plenty of time it's pistols and machine guns when she is bigger, if she wants to shoot them.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20140329_145554_298_zps60605f82.jpg

[Love Life]

Sheeoooot. No cap guns? Heck, I wonder how any of us made it out alive...

[BCRider]

First off let me say that I've been one of the two supervisors at my club's Jr .22 program held weekly during the school year. So I've had my fair share of young and younger kids show up to shoot the guns.

Someone a few posts back mentioned that some will do great at a very tender age while others at 10 can't be trusted to not have a constant stream of attention lapses. So true, so true. I've had a 5 to 6 year old that handled the responsibility in a way that would serve as a good example to some adults. I've also had 12 to 14 year olds that simply did not get it at all and had to have the gun taken away and miss the rest of that turn to think on what they did. I've even had to yell a time or two when some kid finished early and started to make a break and run to see the target while the others were still shooting. My vocal chords just about jumped out of my throat and hit them in back of the head! ! ! ! That made the young boy cry. But with the parent's permission I took the boy aside and explained a few things. He's been gold since that one time. Not the best way to do it though.

Anyway, I've also seen a few parents with a good amount of "little league parent" syndrome. The worst only came out two times and then we never saw the parent or kid again. Please don't be one of those. It was brutal to watch how he talked to the poor kid. No name calling or anything. Just constantly pushing to be better. Took the fun right out of it for the poor boy.

So I'll echo the idea that somewhere between 4 and 8 is a good time to start them out. But I'd start with a rifle instead of a handgun. It's just too easy to spin around or drop it or find it otherwise pointed in the wrong direction. A rifle used on a shooting table with a front rest makes it a lot easier on the kids. It's also easier on the parent to catch any lapse of control and judgement before it becomes dangerous.

As for primers or broke apart rimfire rounds used as caps? I feel like the rest that this is a bad idea. The primers are still surprisingly powerful gas producers. And the construction gun blanks are even worse. There's been two actors that I know of that hurt or killed themselves just from the gas impact from "playing around" with a movie set blank gun after all. So blanks or bullets BOTH require supervision anyway you look at them. And if you're right there already then they may as well be putting lead onto a target.

And above all else be honest with your self about your child's ability to focus on the safety aspects. If they don't get it right away that's fine. It just means you need to be there. But don't do what I saw one parent doing. They basically told the teenage daughter what and when to do everything to the point that the girl relied on the father to tell her everything from soup to nuts. As a result I saw the girl get a stage DQ in a cowboy action match for the silliest thing going. Namely forgetting to lower the hammer on the rifle before loading the magazine and then bringing it cocked (on an empty chamber mind you) to the stage. A bit of trust on the part of the father and making the girl think on her own would likely have done a lot to aid her in thinking for herself. So if you see something after the first session or two don't tell them to correct it. Instead ask if they are missing something. Make them LOOK and THINK and they'll quickly be a better and safer handler of firearms on their own.

For starting out that young by all means pick up one of the youth rifles so they fit the small frame kids that much better. I've seen a few young'uns that could not cock the bolt on the manual cocking style guns such as the Cricket and Henry Mini Bolt. So I'm more a fan of the Savage Rascal. Even the smallest can rack the bolt on the club's Rascals just fine.

[1989toddm]

First off let me say that I've been one of the two supervisors at my club's Jr .22 program held weekly during the school year. So I've had my fair share of young and younger kids show up to shoot the guns.

Someone a few posts back mentioned that some will do great at a very tender age while others at 10 can't be trusted to not have a constant stream of attention lapses. So true, so true. I've had a 5 to 6 year old that handled the responsibility in a way that would serve as a good example to some adults. I've also had 12 to 14 year olds that simply did not get it at all and had to have the gun taken away and miss the rest of that turn to think on what they did. I've even had to yell a time or two when some kid finished early and started to make a break and run to see the target while the others were still shooting. My vocal chords just about jumped out of my throat and hit them in back of the head! ! ! ! That made the young boy cry. But with the parent's permission I took the boy aside and explained a few things. He's been gold since that one time. Not the best way to do it though.

Anyway, I've also seen a few parents with a good amount of "little league parent" syndrome. The worst only came out two times and then we never saw the parent or kid again. Please don't be one of those. It was brutal to watch how he talked to the poor kid. No name calling or anything. Just constantly pushing to be better. Took the fun right out of it for the poor boy.

So I'll echo the idea that somewhere between 4 and 8 is a good time to start them out. But I'd start with a rifle instead of a handgun. It's just too easy to spin around or drop it or find it otherwise pointed in the wrong direction. A rifle used on a shooting table with a front rest makes it a lot easier on the kids. It's also easier on the parent to catch any lapse of control and judgement before it becomes dangerous.

As for primers or broke apart rimfire rounds used as caps? I feel like the rest that this is a bad idea. The primers are still surprisingly powerful gas producers. And the construction gun blanks are even worse. There's been two actors that I know of that hurt or killed themselves just from the gas impact from "playing around" with a movie set blank gun after all. So blanks or bullets BOTH require supervision anyway you look at them. And if you're right there already then they may as well be putting lead onto a target.

And above all else be honest with your self about your child's ability to focus on the safety aspects. If they don't get it right away that's fine. It just means you need to be there. But don't do what I saw one parent doing. They basically told the teenage daughter what and when to do everything to the point that the girl relied on the father to tell her everything from soup to nuts. As a result I saw the girl get a stage DQ in a cowboy action match for the silliest thing going. Namely forgetting to lower the hammer on the rifle before loading the magazine and then bringing it cocked (on an empty chamber mind you) to the stage. A bit of trust on the part of the father and making the girl think on her own would likely have done a lot to aid her in thinking for herself. So if you see something after the first session or two don't tell them to correct it. Instead ask if they are missing something. Make them LOOK and THINK and they'll quickly be a better and safer handler of firearms on their own.

For starting out that young by all means pick up one of the youth rifles so they fit the small frame kids that much better. I've seen a few young'uns that could not cock the bolt on the manual cocking style guns such as the Cricket and Henry Mini Bolt. So I'm more a fan of the Savage Rascal. Even the smallest can rack the bolt on the club's Rascals just fine.

Great, Great advise!! I appreciate all that was said and it gives me many things to think on so I can do the best for my children and their safety and confidence. We are currently on the hospital with baby #2 - a boy! Had some bad bleeding from mama but it's is cooperating so far since last night. Praise God! My mom gets here tomorrow from IN, be glad to see her and have some help once we get home.

[7br]

You might consider a used Dan Wesson Model 15. There is very little grip frame and you could get a set of wood grips and sand the heck out of them to fit. Later on, put full size grips back on.

[Lloyd Smale]

get them a bearcat. I had one for each of my grandkids. They loved carrying them in a holster so what I do is put a tie wrap through the trigger guard and around the gun under the hammer. 7 year old kid sure cant break a tie wrap. Hard to teach a kid respect for and what a gun can do if your shooting caps.