Rust Blue Action/Barrel Prep

[gliebegott]

Ok, I have not had much luck finding help in the net when it comes to prepping a barreled action for the slow rust blue process. I have watched Larry Potterfields video dealing with the barrel but no one has anything on a barreled action.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
George

[LAGS]

I just happen to be Rust bluing a Springfield Shotgun Barreled action Today.
I buffed and filed out all of the rust pits, polished out all the scrarches, then sand blasted the areas where I want more of a matt finish like the top of the receiver, and Bead Blasted the rest.
Then I will Boil it in distilled water for a half hour.
Then degrease it inside and out with Acetone, and degreased Steel wool.
Boil it one more time in Clean Distilled Water then apply the rust bluing liquid, applied with a cotton ball, wet and then Wrung out with the bluing solution.
You want it to go on, and dry almost instantly.
You do not WET the metal with the Acid.
But formost.
Wear Latex Gloves, and once the metal is degreased, dont touch the metal with anything, especially you bare hands.

[gliebegott]

What sort of finish does the bead blasted areas produce? I am looking for a few different finish textures.

[LAGS]

Bead blasting gives it a very slight Matt finish, but it comes out more even then I have found on a polished surface.
You will never get a true Reflective Polished blue with Slow Rust, because if done right, it is actually etching into the surface of the metal when it is rusting.
Plus, I have found that if I polish to a mirror finish, the acid does not want to go on evenly.
It beads up like water on glass even though you are putting it on almost dry.
Bead Blasting also results in rusting faster and speeds up the process by two or three cycles.
Sand blasting gives a little more of a Matt finish.
But to retain that, you have to Card Off those areas more carefully, because the rough surface rusts extremly fast, and the High points rust faster. Thus Knock off when you card the surface.

[LAGS]

One Big mistake guys make is, to keep wearing the same pair if gloves .
Get a New Clean Pair of disposable gloves every time you do a cycle.
And dont touch your skin or anything else with the gloves.
I saw a guy scratch his nose while wearing the latex gloves, then pick up his barrel.
When it rusted, you could see the fingerprints where the oil then on the outside of the glove prevented the metal from rusting as much or not at all.
Oil and Grease are NOT your friend.
And also, wash your hands before you put on the gloves.
You will be touching the outside of the glove with your bare hands to put them on.

[LAGS]

This is the shotgun after an hour of rusting.
I got sidetracked yesterday, so I finally got started today.
Sorry, but I forgot to send pic's of the bead blast finish before I started bluing the gun.

And before you ask.
Yes, I am Rusting it in the shower of my spare Bathroom.
I am not married, so I can get away with that kind of stuff.
It makes a perfect Humid rusting Chamber if you turn on the hot shower for a while.

[LAGS]

Parts at 3 1/2 hours
And this is what it looked like when I started.
It is a Springfield 67 that was Bubba'ed to the max.
That is why I call it Bubba Springfield

[rking22]

Lags, Looking good. I use Laurel Mountain Forge and am down to the bottom 1/8 bottle. Does this stuff loose it's "vigor" after a while? Been using this bottle for 6 years at least, and it sure dosen't want to get a bite after the 3rd cycle. I am doing a Iver Johnson "Hammer Forged" SxS in 20ga., Still working on getting the last of he pits out of the barrels but the foreend iron came out good, trigger guard just wouldn't coperate after 3rd cycle. May get another bottle before starting the barrels if you think it may be weak. Thanks for any insight.

[LAGS]

I am using a bottle of Pilkingtons American Rust Blue that I opened two years ago.
We will see if it works on the rest of the Go rounds.
But so far, so good.
But I think it is going to loose some punch once opened, just because of the larger amount of air that is in the bottle as you use it up, even if it it closed tightly.

[Charley]

I use and like LMF better than other choices. not really much to rust bluing, polish to taste, then degrease. degrease it again, to be sure. then swab on your solution and let it work.

[LAGS]

Years ago, I rust blued / semi Browned a Muzzleloader barrel with Vinegar.
But I didn't card it off between coats. just Boiled and washed it, then another coat of Vinegar, and wait about a week to boil it.
It took forever , but it works and gave a more fine Aged Patina finish like it was 100 years old.

I also did one using Naval Jelly to get the rust going.
But it came out more like Parkerizing.
I guess you could use just about any kind of Acid, and just learn to work with it at the speed it will etch the metal.

[Geezer in NH]

Do not polish to high that is the worst mistake that is made.

My son does rust blue for several Double gun shops, Blackening barrels can range from $400 to $800 barrels only depending on their condition. He is busy year round and takes on nothing except from the dealers. He makes a good second income from this.

He learned in my old shop and he has the patients and skill for it. (way better than I could)

[rking22]

2nd that, I polished a belgian browning SA22 action up to 1200 on the sides aith a beedblasted top. It would not take on the sides but the top was SO easy! Wound up redoing the sides at 400. Now I stop at 340 and it comes out very well. Patience required, of course! I have always heard you can bare hand the parts when using LMF due to the detergent. Just can't bring myself to do it, gloves, more gloves and the detergent in it is just an insurance policy.

[LAGS]

First Boiling after rusting over night

[LAGS]

Let's look at it this way.
The Bluing Solution is a acid, and other Chemicals.
Those chemicals will be absorbed into your skin, and into your blood stream.
Will those chemicals cause Cancer after repeated exposure.
I aint going to wait and find out in 10 years that they do.
Gloves protect you as much as they do the finish on your gun.

[Buck Neck It]

I know that you plug the barrel, but what do you do with the inside of the action?

[gnoahhh]

Hit the areas that are visible and don't worry about the rest other than to thoroughly degrease them.

[gnoahhh]

Hit the areas that are visible and don't worry about the rest other than to thoroughly degrease them.

I plug barrels mainly to keep the bluing solution (rust) out of them, and don't worry about it when said plugs pop out in the boiling water which they sometimes do. (Heat expands the trapped air inside and sometimes pops the plugs, for me anyway.)

[LAGS]

Second Rust.
I had it hanging in the bathroom , and forgot I left the shower running for a half hour.
This is just after an hour of rusting.

[Mk42gunner]

What a timely thread, I have a new to me saltwood era Browning T-bolt to restock and re-reblue, (it has been done once already). Plus I just found a full unopened bottle of Pilkington's Rust blue solution that I forgot I had.

Robert

[LAGS]

Well let's get too it.
It is, Better to Rust, than to Fade Away.

[LAGS]

Because the action and barrel rusted so fast, and faster than my liking due to my mistake, I decided to what I call Short Cycle it.
I boiled it after three hours, just in case it was too agressive, and might end up pitting the receiver.
Better to be safe than sorry.

[seagiant]

Hi,
You guys might want to build a "Damp Box" to make your process faster!

I live in humid Florida and still use one!

I can get three GOOD rust cycles a day, so in 2 days I am done and the better rust produced the better the job!!!

[LAGS]

A Rust Box is nice, and if I blued rifles more often, then i would make one.
I had mentioned the shower, because MOST everyone has a shower, and Most are not going to be bluing on some production Level.
I am Also Old School.
It is called Slow Rust Bluing for a reason.
I have no desire to get more Cycles per day, I am not on any major Deadline , time being Money is not a factor since I am not doing it Professionally.
But , I Just pulled the action and barrel out of the final Boiling.
I Do Not Card Off after the final Boiling
I will let it Cool Down, then I always apply a Liberal Coat of 3 in 1 oil to all the metal with an old tooth brush and let it Cure overnight.
Then tomorrow, I wipe it all down with an old Clean T Shirt and reassemble the gun.

If you want things done Fast, the Slow Rust Bluing is not for you.
Yes, you can Speed things Up, but WHY ?
I will be posting pictures later, when I apply the oil, and tomorrow when it is wiped down.

[seagiant]

Hi,
You took me the wrong way it seems?

You do NOT want ANY water to get on a slow rust blue job.

That will spot it and messit up.

You do not want to rust overly fast in a rich humidity as that will pit as you might of already found out!

A well made Damp Box has a heat/water/humid source and this is regulated at the top of the box by a light bulb.

You also use a temp/humidity scale to keep yourself in the right enviroment.

Usually 85temp with 80% humidity works best for me.

Speed is not the main objective, BUT, controlled/regulated conditions, will give best results with less time/labor wasted!

[LAGS]

You are correct, and that is why , when I forgot and left the shower running, I Short Cycled it and boiled it right away.
Too much humidity, causes water to bead ul on the metal, and is Very Bad.
I had a Damp cabinet before and I just used an Electric Humidifier to up the humidity.
It is Very Dry here in Arizona, so sometimes nature needs a little help.
We have a Dry Heat, and we also have a Dry rain.
But with working and all, I am down to bluing a gun about three times a year if I am lucky.
The shower works fine for me right now, and could be of help for those who only do one gun a year.
Less expense, and less set up, and less space needed.

[LAGS]

Bubba's got the Blue's
He is ready to wipe down and start putting him back together for a test fire.

Now the pictures stopped posting again.
I will try again later

[robroy]

If you are going to rust blue a bolt rifle, do you just plug the muzzle and chamber and forget about the inside of the receiver?

[gnoahhh]

If you are going to rust blue a bolt rifle, do you just plug the muzzle and chamber and forget about the inside of the receiver?

Yup, but like I said earlier you want to be bluing the visible areas inside the receiver too. Otherwise the job will look half done when finished.

As for making and using a damp box, seagiant is spot on. It took me all of about 1/2 hour to build mine out of scrap plywood. The ability to achieve predictable consistent results whether one is in a hurry or not is the primary reason for using one. I can't imagine doing it in a shower stall.

[johnson1942]

i just rust blued a side lock, trigger guard, side lock plate, and a piece of shaped steel that goes under the front part of the trigger guard. all this for a custom sidelock muzzleloader. it tured out perfect. i heat the parts in the oven at 350 degrees. put on several layers of rust blue. then was them clean and repeat several layers again. then i put them in a pot of water and boil for an hour with some bakeing soda mixed with the water. then i rub them clean with a cloth and put them in the oven at about 180 to 200 degees for and hour. then i soak them in oil for an hour then rub dry and install. they turned out perfect, avery deep blue. forgot to say i beadblasted them as a prep. if you want a black finish mix rust brown with rust blue, it makes the finish black.

[gliebegott]

Apprec all the advise. Still wondering about the polishing procedures when it comes to a barreled action. I know about the shoe-shine motion on the barrel. I am guessing you simply do the same where you can on the receiver and make it match?

[John 242]

Apprec all the advise. Still wondering about the polishing procedures when it comes to a barreled action. I know about the shoe-shine motion on the barrel. I am guessing you simply do the same where you can on the receiver and make it match?

Don't know if you found the answer to your question.

I use what's called cross polishing. Cross polishing helps you spot grit scratches from the previous grit of paper. They'll be obvious, because they'll run the opposite direction from which you are currently polishing. Grit scratches are devious and sometimes will hide. If you leave 220 grit scratches and polish over them in the same direction with 320, you may not spot them until you go to 400, unless you cross polish. That sucks, because removing 220 scratches with 400 takes a while.
(I'll sometimes check my progress with 600 or 800 paper. Finer paper really makes mistakes jump out. The finer you polish, the more pits, scratches, etc will stand out.)

I plan out what my final grit will be and then alternate with each succeeding grit change. For example, for rust bluing my final polish is 400. I begin with whatever paper I feel I need to start with and then end up laterally polishing with the 400. Let's say the gun isn't bad off and I can start with 220. 220 would go length wise, 320 would go the opposite direction and the barrel is shoe shinned. I stick with 320 until ALL of the 220 grit scratches are removed. 400 then goes length wise until ALL of the 320 grit scratches are removed. Some parts of a gun you can't can't cross polish very easily, so you have to use good judgement and just make sure you remove the previous grit's scratches.

You can lightly blend what's left with a fine Scotch Brite pad, but be cautious. Rust bluing doesn't take well to a polished surface, as has already been mentioned.

Why end going length wise? Because any remaining scratches that you fail to remove (miss) will be harder to detect by the eye when they run lengthwise. It's harder to spot them. Scratches the run north and south (for lack of a better term) are easier for the eye to detect. Give it a try and see what you think. If you don't agree, simply polish the opposite direction until you're satisfied.

Another tip is to work your rounds first, then your flats. By working the flats last, you can re-establish edges that you may have accidentally muted.

Rust bluing leaves a slightly matte finish, or at least the methods I use do. I don't polish beyond 400 grit, but I do remove my previous grit scratches, pits, etc. Even though 400-grit isn't the high polished blue that may fawn over, a well done rust bluing job is a very attractive finish.