Getting the most accurate shots before cleaning 45/70

[seac]

I have been shooting cast boolits with smokeless powder for many years in my 45/70 Sharps rifles. Just recently, I started using black powder loads. Seems that with BP, I can get only about 5 accurate shots before the group opens up all over the paper. My load is 50gr FFF Goex with either a 340gr or 405gr boolit. I use 44 Orange wax lube which has worked well for my smokeless loads. I am wondering how many shots others are getting before losing accuracy and needing to clean the bore.

[Larry Gibson]

You need to use a softer BP type lube and up the powder charge for a more efficient "burn". Or.....use a duplex load to keep the fouling down to a manageable level. I have fired 100+ rounds using my duplex load (5 gr SR4759 with 52 gr GOEX fffg over it under Lee 405HB bullet) through my H&R trapdoor carbine w/o any loss of accuracy between the 1st 5 shots and the last. Velocity of that load is 1150 fps matching the 45-55 G'vmt carbine load.

Larry Gibson

[frnkeore]

There are two ways to deal with this but, I recommend 1/16" LDPE wads, under the bullet base, for both.

Duplex, is the first. Use 10 - 15% smokeless (i.e. with 50gr BP, use 5 - 7.5 gr). If your using Lee 340 & 405 bullets, your handy capped by the small lube capacity of them, although it's more recoil, the Lee 500 gr 3R bullet is a lot better for lube.

The duplex powders that you'll want to use for the 10 - 15% rule are 296, 4227 & 4759). I hold two West Coast BP records one with 296 (45/70) and the other with 4759 (32/35).

The other way is to "blow tube". You modify a case to attach a piece of surgical tubing to it and blow through it several times (more on a low humidity day). The mositure in your breath, softens the fouling.

I found much better accuracy using FG GOEX over any others. There are less "fines" (dust) in the courser granulations, giving lower ES's.

Frank

[seac]

Thanks Larry and Frank for your quick replies. Your advice will be applied in my next loadings. It was on my mind that the lube was at fault here, but didn't consider duplexing. Your experience is greatly appreciated, thanks again.

[country gent]

I normally shoot 10-20 rds between cleaning with Black Powder. Several things to try are 1) use an appropriate bullet lube SPG or make a batch of emmerts improved up, these work better keeping the fouling soft and managable. Make sure you have a lube star on the end of the barrel ( shows bulletis carrying enough lube for load/barrel length). 2) use of a blow tube between shots helps keep fouling soft also. 3) Black powder burns much cleaner with some compression on it in the case ( ussually between .100 -.300) . Do this in a seperate step from bullet seating as the soft lead bullets may be damaged using them. 4) experiment with diffrent wads LDPE, Napa rubber fiber gasket material, cardboard tablet backing, waxed milk cartons, newsprint have all been used with good results. A quick simple compression pin can be made to work with your seater die. Make a steel or brass image of your bullet .450-.455 dia and set this in the case on the wad and powder set to give compression to depth of base of bullet. If you make it same length of your bullet then you may not need to reseat seater even. Emmerts lube has been around for years was one of the originals used. Its simple to make all you need is a double boiler type set up and ingediants. Recipe is 50% beeswax, 40% unsalted crisco (used to be lard or tallow), 5% canola oil or olive oil, and 5% anhydrous lanolin. CAn be done by wieght or volumne. Heat beeswax, crisco, and oil to liquid state in double boiler and add lanolin stir mixing completely. Let cool and you will have a very useable black powder bullet lube that does a good job keeping fouling soft and workable. If your bullet dosnt carry enough lube ( no lube star on muzzle) a grease cookie can be added under bullet of 1/16"-1/8". To make the sheet set a cookie sheet on the stove burner with a layer of water in it. Heat to hot just shy of boiling and pour melted emmerts on it to desired thickness let cool to set up and lift off with a spatula. In use set lube sheet on hard surface, compress powder with wad and push case mouth thru lube sheet to cut the cookie and start into case good. seat with a paper wad and dowel. You have to allow room for this under the bullet also.

[seac]

Thanks Country Gent. I'll try the compression and crimping, and make some of that Emmerts lube. I think I can use a wood dowel and mallet for compressing the powder. Maybe use the microwave to melt the lube.

[John Allen]

are you using a blow tube after the shots? Try a lube cookie behind the bullet it helps alot. Also I find that a quick wipe down the bore with a cloth patch with windex with vinegar makes a big difference.

[country gent]

Make the simple hard bullet form to compress when done it is consistant with dept and compression. Its simple enough to do. Cut a length of 7/16 rod (brass, steel, hardwood will work) cut it long and put in drill press chuck run drill press and with a file and sandpaper form the point close to your bullets. cut to length + a little to clean up and file square. This in the seater die will give consistant results. There are compression dies available from buffalo arms track of the wolf and some others. a dowel and mallet will push diffrent every time. What you want to end up with is a compressed charge with wad under the bullet with no air space between them. As to melting beeswax in the microwave, beeswax has a lower flash point and is flamable. set an old can in a pan of water on the stove and boil to melt ingrediants. Much less chance of a fire and also scourching the lanolin. I dont crimp any BPCR rounds so far My rounds are loaded so that the bullet can be hand seated on the wads then sized around bullet just enough to hold them.

[seac]

OK, I hear you guys. Thanks again Country Gent and Jon Allen. Can make the double boiler, and I found a 1/2" delrin rod that I can turn down into a powder compressor bullet (will use brass if I can find a piece). Ahh, also found a plastic hose to use for blowing down the barrel. Wad material (felt), windex and vinegar, are around the house somewhere.

[country gent]

Your good to go. No some testing and experimenting. The fun part LOL. Find a powder charge that fills the case to the base of the bullet ( black powder only) insert a wad and compress to depth needed. seat bullets and test. load should be close and show some promise, work up in 2-3 grain increments only changing the powder charge and adding compression. If you are set on 50 grn powder charge wad cream of wheat filler and another wad adding cream of wheat to increase compression instead of powder. Want to get some real looks at the range cream of wheat filler and add some bacon grease to the emmerts and the rounds firing will smell like breakfast is cooking. LOL. No airspace in the case, proper compression of charge, and youll be good to go.