Which Powder Measure?

[Ehaver]

I have a Lee PPM and I use Unique and H4895. I was loading some .223 with 23 grns of 4895 +- .1 grn measured with a hornady digital scale.

I found myself having to trickle as much as .5 grains. I put the powder in... thumped it about 10 times to let it settle. Is there something else I should be doing, or better measure?

Thanks...

[country gent]

I have never used the Lee PPM measure. Basics to good results with a powder measure are 1 consistent operation, same speed of stroke coming and going. Had a guy ask why return was import and I told him thats when the cavity fills on rotary. 2 consistant bump if needed ends of stroke may be one or both ends of stroke. 3 consitent level of powder where measure wants it to be. Mark upper and lower levels of hopper with tape to show it. 4 a solid secure mount for measure, if mount is vibrating thne measure is not operating as well as it should. 4895 can be a little trickier to measure due to stick form of powder. If there are drums with diffrent sized opening experiment with them as cavity dia and length can make a diffrence also. I have used lymann 55, RCBS uniflow, Belding and Mulls, And have 2 harrels. Stick powders meter well when the proper technique is found and followed. Another thing to try is wipe the measure down with a dryer sheet to remove any static build up.

[RogerDat]

I'll toss in you might want to check out a baffle offered by Titan Reloading. Acts to maintain a more consistent pressure as powder is used and the powder level falls.

http://www.titanreloading.com/powder-handling-equipment/titan-round-powder-baffle

[DeputyDog25]

+1 on the powder baffle. If this doesn't work for you, I have been using a Redding powder measure for years and find it to be extremely accurate.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have been using the same RCBS Uniflow for close to 40 years. A sharp crisp slap of the handle for each charge and the first weighs the same as the last no matter how much powder I have in the hopper. A friend swears by the RCBS Little Dandy.

[ukrifleman]

I use a Lee PPM with a variety of powders including H4895 and find it works well.

As previously stated, make sure the measure is securely fixed down so that it doesn't move.

My PPM throws consistent charges right down to the last powder in the hopper without baffles.

I have found the best method is to work the lever positively, pausing at the end of each stroke to allow the powder to flow.

Also, don't leave powder in the hopper when not in use, as it can settle and cause inconsistent metering.

One thing I would check is, that the hopper is turned to the fully open position over the drum.

Hope this helps.

ukrifleman.

[dudel]

PPM has a built in baffle. It's (according to Lee), the section that has the powder shutoff in the powder container.

Lee says the PPM needs to run about a pound of powder through it to break it in. That gets graphite in all the needed parts.

All that said, my PPM never worked well for me. I replaced it with a Dillon powder measure, and never looked back. I use the Dillon in my RockChucker with the powder dies and it's great for flaring and dumping in one step. I tried it on the LCT; but it was too heavy for the LCT (resulting in partial rotation). I eventually got a 550b, and that's where the they rock. Like them so much I picked up extras.

There are a lot of good measures out there; some work better than others with different powders. Most any measure can work with ball powder. A lot can handle flake/disk powders. Less can handle stick powders.

[jmorris]

I was loading some .223 with 23 grns of 4895 +- .1 grn measured with a hornady digital scale.

I found myself having to trickle as much as .5 grains.

I am not sure I understand. Why would you need to trickle in half a grain if your measure is throwing +\- a tenth?

[daboone]

I find that the PPM is a very consistent for IMR or H4895 ,+/-.2gr. There is a sticky here ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?267658-This-is-my-Lee-Perfect-Powder-Measure ) that maybe helpful to get you where you want to be with the PPM.

[Ehaver]

Thanks for the replies. I found a nut missing from the powder stand... I'll see if that helps.



I am not sure I understand. Why would you need to trickle in half a grain if your measure is throwing +\- a tenth?

I am loading within a tenth, but the measure is off as much as .5

[zuke]

That is the proper way to weigh every charge, throw light and trickle to weight.

[jmort]

I don't red-line loads, so +/- .1 is just fine by me, and I could even live with a .2 variance on most of my loads. I have a Redding 3, RCBS Uniflow, Lee Classic Powder Measure and Lee Auto Drum (now have drums for both the Lee measures as they both use the same drums). I like the Redding best, but starting to just use the Auto Drum the most. I also use the Lee dippers a lot. I don't shoot in any competitions or Bench Rest so I am more than happy with any of the measures I listed, as I can get +/- .1 ( except the dippers which are close to +/- .2) which works for me and I would go crazy using a trickler and a scale for every charge. Way too anal for me.

[seagiant]

I don't red-line loads, so +/- .1 is just fine by me, and I could even live with a .2 variance on most of my loads. I have a Redding 3, RCBS Uniflow, Lee Classic Powder Measure and Lee Auto Drum (now have drums for both the Lee measures as they both use the same drums). I like the Redding best, but starting to just use the Auto Drum the most. I also use the Lee dippers a lot. I don't shoot in any competitions or Bench Rest so I am more than happy with any of the measures I listed, as I can get +/- .1 ( except the dippers which are close to +/- .2) which works for me and I would go crazy using a trickler and a scale for every charge. Way too anal for me.

Hi,
Right, buy a quality measure to begin with!!!

[gc45]

My three Harrel benchrest measures are terrific but only with ball powders. Also have a Redding mic measure and the equal in RCBS, none will throw the pistol powders I like with any accuracy I'd feel ok shooting...Very disappointing for me. I like 231, universal, Titegroup, 2400 and HS-6 for my 45C loads but just can't get real consistent measured throws. Never have an issue with rifle powders...

GC45

[paul h]

What's more important to you, the consistency of your charge weight, or the accuracy of your ammo? Many powders will not meter closer than +/- .2-.3 gr i.e. a spread of 1/2 grain between charge weights. But what many people have found, and continue to find is that with most chamberings, this has no noticeable affect on accuracy. For a 22 hornet or small handgun rounds it does require chasing charges to a tenth of a grain.

I've proven this to myself many times and hence have enjoyed life by using the scale to set the powder thrower, and then used my targets to tell me what is the best setting for my ammo. Weighing each and every charge is simply a waste of time to me with no benefit.

I did replace my PPM with a Redding 3BR because the PPM would leak H-110 and the Redding is a smoother operating unit with all powders, but I could load 1/2 moa rifle ammunition with either measure.

[gc45]

Zuke has it right IMO- throw light, trickle to what we are looking for. How WW231 can be called a ball powder is beyond me, smallish flakes is more like it. Would love to say this powder drops evenly every time and within .01 like some say but never has happened for me...

Paul H - are you telling us accurate powder measurements are not as important in pistol shooting as in rifle shooting?

GC45

[paul h]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Here's my experience.

My most accurate revolver is a Ruger SRH 480, scoped off the bench with cast bullets it's preferred loads will put five into 1" at 50 yds. All those loads have been thrown and I've achieved that with Unique, Blue Dot, 2400, Lil-gun and H-110. My most accurate contender barrel was a 6.5mm wildcat based on the 30-30 case. Three shot 1/2" groups (120 gr jacketed) at 100 yds. The most accurate powder was H-4350 and thrown from my Lee PPM charges varied by 1/2 gr. I also tried RL15, Varget, and VV-N550 and even though some of those powders varied less with thrown charges, the groups were tightest with the H-4350.

I've shot plenty of five shot 1/2" groups at 100 yds with a 221 fireball and 223, thrown charges with RL7 and Varget respectively.

So I've proven to my satisfaction that thrown charges are more than accurate enough for my needs and ability. The Benchrest crowd has also proven the ability of thrown charges.

If trickling to the tenth makes you happy, then go for it. The point is many have found the correlation to powder charges measured to the 10th vs. thrown does not correlate to smaller groups. Everyone has varying amounts of time available to assemble loads, test loads and use them. For me weighing each charge is a waste of time as I see no benefit with how well the guns shoot.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm with Paul H on this one. What I found over the years is gunpowder has two significant components to it's use in cartridges. One component is it's weight, which can be measured easily and seen using a powder scale. The other component is it's volume, which cannot be see quite so easily, but can be measured by a properly selected, set and operated powder measure.

Both weight and volume have to be taken into account, because powder, due to it's molecular makeup, can easily absorb a little moisture and vary in weight from day to day. The older Lee of Lee Precision did a significant amount of work related to this back in the day with other knowledgeable shooters of that time period, hence his decision to come up with the yellow scoops and powder measures with known volumes in them (the Lee Auto Disks). To date, many a cartridge has been loaded with the scoops and disks to great effect on the shooting range and in the field.

So don't get too caught up in getting the perfect weight in every cartridge. Keep an eye on the volume as well. Because tomorrow, it may rain and that same can of powder will weigh more per volume than it does today.

This is why, when you set up a powder measure to get a certain weight, you can continue to use that powder measure and that weight for as long as it's set. It's giving you the volume you need in that powder. This is also why in black powder they measure everything volumetrically.

It just plain works. Try it, you'll get more cartridges made and they'll shoot good. You'll see....

[gc45]

So lets see if understand this correctly. If setting my powder measure to say, 8.0 grains of WW-231, and at best it meters powder at +or- .1 or .5 tenths of a grain, I should not worry about it? Is that right?

GC45

[jmorris]

Ehaver, try this, throw a charge and weigh it. Then trickle it to what you want and remove the total from the pan into something you can the dump the entire charge back into the pan and have your digital measure again. You can also do this with any charge to see if drafts from say AC/heat vents are messing with you as it is not as easy to see with a digital measure as a beam scale, rocking back and forth.

In short if is says the same exact charge weighs different from one attempt to another, I wouldn't trust the scale.

Some digital measures have problems with small gains of weight over a period of time. In other words your scale may be causing your perceived problems. Any decent powder measure will throw more consist than .5 gn even with extruded powders.

An old beam scale will move with a single kernel of powder added, note that this is much less than a .1gn of change in weight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLp9M6VI3gM

[Greg S]

I only trickle charge a weight pan the last .2 when I'm shooting beyond 400. I found it helps with vertical stringing with stick powders. Other than that, a dillon or rcbs uniflow or lil dandy is good enough.